Teds_Studio
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Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
I think I've narrowed down my choices for a new audio interface. I'm looking into the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 which is USB 2.0 .... 18 in / 20 out. or the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 which is 1394 Firewire .... 20 in/ 20 out. I've read that the Firewire unit is slightly faster with the throughput...but probably not noticable. Seems as though Firewire is kinda being phased out as a standard connection on motherboards, though they are still available on today's MBs...just not sure how the future holds for it. I figure USB 2.0 will be around for a while. Both units can be had for around $400 at the discount online places. Just curious as to your opinions on which way you would go. I would like to be able to jump up to the Roland Studio Capture....but at a grand, it's not feasible to me at this point when these units can be had for less than half that price. I know that this probably should be asked in the Hardware section....but I will be using this with X2 so I'd rather ask here.
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AT
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 0:46 PM
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If it was me (tho I haven't used either unit) I go w/ USB. Firewire will only get more difficult to accomodate (note, I use FW). @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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AT
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 0:47 PM
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If it was me (tho I haven't used either unit) I go w/ USB. Firewire will only get more difficult to accomodate (note, I use FW). @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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Teds_Studio
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 1:00 AM
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That is my thoughts too AT. I'm pretty confident that USB will be around for a few more years. I too still use some FW connectivity. My Sony HVR Z7U video camera uses the CF recorder which uses FW to transfer the video files. Both of the Focusrite units look good...both cosmetically and specs. But my final choice is one I will need to live with for at least a couple of years to get my money's worth. (yeah...I'm kinda frugal) :) .
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shmuelyosef
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 1:22 AM
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I use Firewire Saffire Pro 40 for a few years now. It has been completely transparent and high quality. Can't ask for any more. My Shuttle Intel box came with Firewire on the MOBO about 5-6 years ago, and is a bit dated, but still runs X1 just fine. At some point, I will have to upgrade but that will mean replacing the Saffire Pro. I imagine that I will look for another Focusrite as I can't imagine needing anything more than the Pro 40. If I did it today and was buying a new computer, I would go for the 8 Pre Scarlett. Anybody know why this is not USB 3.0?? with a modern machine this would be faster.
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Teds_Studio
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 1:30 AM
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I'm also surprised that these units are not USB 3.0. I built my computer over two years ago and my MB has 3.0 . I don't know that I've seen an audio interface that is 3.0 . That doesn't mean there isn't one...but I haven't seen one yet.
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ProjectM
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 2:47 AM
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I dunno, seems like audio interface makers are slow to adopt the new connectivity standards (I don't recall seeing a FW800 interface either and I've only seen one made for -optional- Thunderbolt connectivity). But I'm sure USB3.0 interfaces will be around eventually. Re the interfaces, I hear good things about both and don't think you can go wrong with either. However, I would recommend USB for the same reason as the others here. I am considering selling my Ultralite MKIII and replace it with the Ultralite MKIII Hybrid. I'll probably have a fire wire interface on my DAW for years to come but I can't connect it to either of my laptops (windows PC and a MacBook Air).
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Lemonboy
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 5:21 AM
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I would say USB is more likely to be around for longer, however Focusrite state that all their firewire units are Thunderbolt compatible (with an adaptor, but with no loss/gain in performance). I'm now using a MacBook which has two usb and 1 firewire port, so I'm going to get myself the Saffire PRO 24 DSP for mobile use, as it still leaves me a usb port each for a controller keyboard and Maschine. Andy
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garrigus
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 8:46 AM
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DeeringAmps
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 9:13 AM
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It all comes down to drivers, drivers, drivers! Check the RME website for some info on USB vs FW. http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewforum.php?id=4RME is convinced that USB is faster (on MOST systems), seems there is a "hidden" 32 sample delay using FW; I think that's right. Remember MS "broke" the FW drivers in Win7, and changed it again in Win8. I'm running the UFX via USB and my FW-1884 (control only) via FW; just a matter of time with the 1884; sad really... Unless something has changed recently (or is about to), there are no USB3 audio interfaces. HTH, Tom
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Mistergreen
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 9:37 AM
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Don't worry about firewire being phased out as a connection on the Mobo. Most people use a PCI card anyway. This is the better option since you can match the card's chipset to your interface.
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gswitz
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 9:41 AM
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Rme has some usb 3 interfaces . I tried the second focusrite you mentioned for a month. I adored the sound but had fire wire issues in my laptop. Ti card. So I returned it and eventually got the rme. The rme is cool and is more transparent than the focusrite, but do love it and use the related software ALL THE Time. I watch TV monitoring the spectral analyzer et al. My Ucx is not a usb three device, but it has usb3 drivers and works fine on usb3 ports. When say more transparent I mean it didn't have the liquid pres . Those liquid Pres are awesome.
post edited by gswitz - August 27, 13 7:35 AM
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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lawajava
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 9:43 AM
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I originally wanted to go with the Saffire Pro and FireWire. A whole slew of folks talked me out of it, mainly because there is such a pullback from firewire these days) and I went with the Scarlett 18i6. It's been flawless.
I have two units now (since I have a laptop). One is tethered to all of my 18 inputs and 6 outputs in my studio. The other one I carry freely around with me when I pick up my laptop and work in another room or location.
Sounds great and easy to use.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 9:58 AM
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You won't notice a difference in performance between a USB2 audio interface vs. Firewire. The best USB2 units offer low round-trip latency... right on par (a little better in some cases) than the best Firewire units. ie: The RME units yield 4.9ms total round-trip latency at a 48-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k You previously asked about the FastTrack Ultra 8R. That unit is actually pretty decent. I shelved mine for a good while (when they removed "high-performance" mode - which offers low round-trip latency). With the latest driver update (recent), high-performance mode is now back. Round-trip latency is 5ms at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k. The analog section is just a little bit bright (compared to some units), but you can capture good results with it. If you can source one for under $300, I'd definitely consider it. I used mine playing soft-synths live (64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k) using Forte' as a host. Never a single glitch... The Focusrite units offer ever so slightly better fidelity. The M-Audio unit offers lower round-trip latency. If you go with a new Focusrite unit, I'd opt for USB2 over Firewire. Firewire isn't going to immediately disappear... but it's nowhere near as common as USB2. Again, there's no performance gain going with Firewire, so you may as well get the unit with the longest shelf-life. If you get a Firewire unit, you'll want to use a PCIe TI chipset Firewire controller. That eliminates most compatibility issues... and ensures maximum performance. Certain Firewire units are *very* particular/finicky about the specific TI chipset controller (ie: Mackie and Tascam).
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AT
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 10:21 AM
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As Jim et al says above, FW will be around on pci cards etc. but USB will be native. Thunderbolt seems like thunderdud w/ the slow adoption rate, except on Macs. Maybe if they lower the price? $500 is more than a lot of computers these days. But USB is fine for most jobs, USB 2 is fast enough for most recording, so I would go that way. A bit safer, esp. if you plan on keeping the interface for a few years. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 10:33 AM
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AT As Jim et al says above, FW will be around on pci cards etc. but USB will be native. Thunderbolt seems like thunderdud w/ the slow adoption rate, except on Macs. Maybe if they lower the price? $500 is more than a lot of computers these days. But USB is fine for most jobs, USB 2 is fast enough for most recording, so I would go that way. A bit safer, esp. if you plan on keeping the interface for a few years. @
Thunderbolt is great... but when it's a $500 option for your audio interface (ie: Apollo) that's a serious consideration. Thunderbolt external HDs are also extremely expensive. USB3 enclosures top out at ~550MB/Sec (fast enough for most users - a little faster than a good SATA-III SSD). ie: A 3TB external Thunderbolt HD is ~$350. The USB3 version is ~$130
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soundtweaker
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 11:57 AM
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I was looking at the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 also. But I read a user comparison with that and RME Fireface and though they are very close, he said RME pre's have a more "3D" sound compared to Focusrite which sound more "2D" Waiting to read some reviews on the Roland Studio capture.
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StarTekh
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 12:02 AM
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Ted: go with firewire and Ti chipset card.. you will not have any issues !
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ptheisen
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 6:57 PM
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Here is my two cents, since I faced the same decision a month or so ago. In the specific case between these two Focusrite products, the drivers for their firewire products were updated in May of this year, with very favorable results as far as low latency performance is concerned. The USB 18i20 is quite new, and according to some of the feedback I have seen, there are still some issues to be worked out with the drivers. You may want to check out the May '13 results on www.dawbench.com/audio-int-lowlatency.htm The results on that site seem to indicate that more often than not, at least for the interfaces they tested, there was a slight advantage in low latency performance with firewire. Another difference between the 18i20 and Pro 40 is that for some reason, the MixControl software for the 18i20 allows only 8 output channels instead of the 16 allowed on the Pro 40. Maybe it's because some software horsepower had to be diverted to the word-clock out, which the 18i20 has but the Pro 40 does not. I chose the Pro 40. My motherboard had a TI firewire chip. I downloaded and installed the latest drivers. The Pro 40 worked perfectly right out of the box with my computer, and gives low latency performance in line with the results posted for the Pro 24 on dawbench.com, in fact, a tiny bit better. I am extremely happy with my choice.
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Teds_Studio
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 8:15 PM
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Thanks so much folks...!!! Some very valuable info here. Jim, I've seen a few different online sellers with the FastTrack Ultra 8R for $269 with free shipping. That is a pretty good deal...I was just concerned about drivers, but have noticed on their website that they have fairly updated drivers...which is nice to know. I like the Focusrite products simply because I like a product that has the power supply built in...ie it uses an IEC power cord plugged directly into the unit instead of using a wall wart. Plus the fact that there are really good reviews about the preamps and included software (along with the fact that they include some Focusrite Plugins). Now it's time to make a decision :) . Thanks again folks...!!! You guys rock.
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pbognar
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 8:28 PM
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Jim Roseberry You previously asked about the FastTrack Ultra 8R. That unit is actually pretty decent. I shelved mine for a good while (when they removed "high-performance" mode - which offers low round-trip latency). With the latest driver update (recent), high-performance mode is now back. Round-trip latency is 5ms at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k. The analog section is just a little bit bright (compared to some units), but you can capture good results with it. If you can source one for under $300, I'd definitely consider it. I used mine playing soft-synths live (64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k) using Forte' as a host. Never a single glitch... The Focusrite units offer ever so slightly better fidelity. The M-Audio unit offers lower round-trip latency.
Jim, I believe the driver for the FastTrack Ultra 8R and the regular FastTrack Ultra are the same. Is the newest driver, 6.1.9 IIRC compatible with Windows 7 as well as Windows 8? It is a little unclear on the website. Thanks.
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JonD
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 8:55 PM
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garrigus ..... I would think you'll still be able to add FireWire with a PCIe card even if it doesn't come on the mobo. Scott
Completely agree with Scott, here. Both of my two home-built desktop DAWs have PCIe FW add-on cards - each hosting a different model FW audio interface. Short of the manufacturers dropping support for either of these devices, I expect to use them for years to come.
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2:43AM
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 9:22 PM
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I think you should go with the 18i20. I think it's a fairly new interface from Focusrite, and it looks good too! Be sure to let us know how it goes after purchase. With USB, I just worry about other peripherals connected to the bus...e.g. a MIDI interface, a keyboard, a mouse, a USB-MIDI keyboard controller, a USB drive, an external USB HDD, a can cooler...you get the point. All things considered, those do take up USB bandwidth which could have the chance to affect your audio stream or cause latency issues. Overall, Focusrite is a good company, IMO. They will actually respond to problems and provide help. Just remember the time difference between the US and the UK!
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daveny5
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 11:02 PM
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MaximumPC magazine said many issues ago that Firewire was dead. I would go with USB.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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SuperG
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 26, 13 11:45 PM
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daveny5 MaximumPC magazine said many issues ago that Firewire was dead. I would go with USB.
I went with both. Heheh.
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HeatherHaze
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 27, 13 4:31 AM
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When I was first considering a USB audio interface, I had concerns about bandwidth, too. So I started doing the math. What I learned, in a nutshell, is that in order to run out of USB bandwidth, you'd have to run like a gazillion simultaneous tracks. Okay, maybe not a gazillion, but it was more than I could ever dream of using. The only practical reason to consider Firewire was stability. But USB has only gotten better, while Firewire has been left behind. I think Windows 7 has really squashed any lingering USB issues. So, any fears that USB 2.0 isn't fast enough are unfounded. That's why it's become the "default" connection for modern audio cards. It's also why USB 3.0 hasn't been widely adopted. It simply isn't necessary for audio processing. ~ Heather
)-|-( HeatherHaze http://heatherhaze.com/ "This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before." ~ Leonard Bernstein Cakewalk by Bandlab Studio One 3.5, Cubase 9.5 Intel Core i7 8700, 32Gb RAM Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 V-Studio VS-700 Slate Raven MTi2 Windows 10 Professional 64-bit ...and a whole bunch of other stuff.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 27, 13 7:14 AM
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pbognar I believe the driver for the FastTrack Ultra 8R and the regular FastTrack Ultra are the same. Is the newest driver, 6.1.9 IIRC compatible with Windows 7 as well as Windows 8? It is a little unclear on the website.
Yes, the latest driver is compatible with Windows 8
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Sidroe
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 27, 13 7:27 AM
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As you can see in my list I have been a very happy MOTU 24io user for many years. It is a PCI card based and it was a little cramped for synching with just word clock. I bought 2 Roland Studio Captures a couple of months ago and have had no problems what so ever. These things sound great and have very low latency. The only thing that I have had trouble with is having to reset the auto-shutdown when you first turn them on. I did notice when the computer shuts down it resets the unit back to the factory setting on the interfaces. I was informed that the Octa-Captures have the same issue. I won't go into the features here. Search for them on the Roland site. They are a little pricey but well worth it.
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jimst57
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 27, 13 8:27 AM
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I just bought the 18i20 and I'm happy with it so far. My question to you would be where you found it for $400.00? I paid $499.00 but I have a window of 30 days to get the difference back if I find it cheaper.
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Teds_Studio
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Re: Narrowed it down for an interface....your opinions...?
August 27, 13 10:18 AM
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Hey Jim, I am now questioning the price I had found. It was a so called "authorized dealer" and had both units listed on Ebay (new, factory sealed) for $399 so I saved them in my watch list. Well....this morning both listings are gone. Some stores do have them listed for $499 with some added free stuff. Then again...you do have to do your homework on these sellers. I'm pretty cautious about jumping in and buying from just any sellers without doing some pretty thorough checking. Even at $499 they seem to be a really nice unit....either one actually.
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