markyzno
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/18 08:21:11
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CakeAlexS
So as far as I can see (as an outside observer) there are no reproducible bugs at present I guess...
No, as mentioned above - I changed the .ini file and changed the video engine, reloaded the config file and my MOV H264 video that played under X3c wouldnt play in X3d...I had a small video screen with a garbled picture so I rolled back to X3c (system Restore) and all is working again. I'll report all this officially to Cakewalk when I am ready.
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Splat 
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/18 08:27:50
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Be sure to keep us updated, would be nice to have the specific issue summarised again in a nutshell when you have the time (for idiots like me) because I got lost, then again video isn't my thang.. thanks :)
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Biscuits
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/18 08:32:50
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CakeAlexS
So as far as I can see (as an outside observer) there are no reproducible bugs at present I guess...
Seems Cake is aware of my reported issue as well, of timecode mismatches between the video and Sonar's transport... not sure how many others are experiencing this though? Thanks Noel, I'll log a proper bug report as soon as I can!
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markyzno
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/18 08:44:05
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Biscuits
CakeAlexS
So as far as I can see (as an outside observer) there are no reproducible bugs at present I guess...
Seems Cake is aware of my reported issue as well, of timecode mismatches between the video and Sonar's transport... not sure how many others are experiencing this though?
Thanks Noel, I'll log a proper bug report as soon as I can!
I was also getting this.
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Jimbo 88
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/18 09:02:07
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markyzno
Biscuits
CakeAlexS
So as far as I can see (as an outside observer) there are no reproducible bugs at present I guess...
Seems Cake is aware of my reported issue as well, of timecode mismatches between the video and Sonar's transport... not sure how many others are experiencing this though?
Thanks Noel, I'll log a proper bug report as soon as I can!
I was also getting this.
Hey I'm getting this also. Seems the transport TC is occasionally 1 frame less than the video TC. The Big Time Window matches the video, but not the transport. Interesting...which is the correct TC?
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Biscuits
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/18 09:08:45
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Cool, glad I'm not alone at least!
FWIW, I was getting slightly more accurate (although still inconsistent) results by using a classic DV AVI instead of Quicktime...
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markyzno
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/18 09:45:53
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These video features need some improvement. That much is clear.
But, having said that this video post production functionality is new to Cakewalk and all we can do as loyal punters is help them progress.
Post Xmas I'm gonna sit down and fully hammer X3d with everything I can throw at it and report back.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/18 14:01:36
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Thanks guys - we'll look into your reports. Until we have more information about the DShow engine behaving differently we have nothing to go on however. Its possible that there could be user error so when you test this make sure that SONAR is indeed loading the video in DShow mode. From our perspective it should be 100% identical or there is a bug somewhere.
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StepD
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/18 14:14:56
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Biscuits
CakeAlexS
So as far as I can see (as an outside observer) there are no reproducible bugs at present I guess...
Seems Cake is aware of my reported issue as well, of timecode mismatches between the video and Sonar's transport... not sure how many others are experiencing this though?
Thanks Noel, I'll log a proper bug report as soon as I can!
I can confirm this when pressing start and stop or changing the now time by clicking on the ruler. It's usually not off by more than a frame for me. If you use the + and - keys on the computer keyboard number pad to move forward or backward one frame at a time from a point where both readouts match (make sure you click on the video window before using those keys), the transport and video readouts will stay in sync. So you may be able to use that as a workaround for now. EDIT: I take that back about the +/- keys. It really just stays in sync if you start at zero and only *tap* those keys. If you hold them down, it will go out of sync at some point. Also, if you hold down the ctrl key to go five frames at a time, it will eventually go out of sync even if you're only tapping the +/- keys. So generally not good all around.
post edited by StepD - 2013/12/18 15:17:13
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wynnsong
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 14:03:07
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+1 on having issues with the way the new video enhancements work/don't work. I truly appreciate Cake taking a step in the right direction but it doesn't really help.
I was working on a :30 commercial that had 6 plus seconds at the front and I had to line up the start of the commercial with bar 2 and after 45 minutes of wasting my time was not able to do so. I then edited the video so it would exactly start at bar 2 when loaded, and the frames would not match up. I reverted using the direct show way and cut the video to exactly frame 1 and had it start at bar 2. (so glad they did this!)
The problems for me are:
1. you cannot slip the movie in the timeline
2. you cannot select audio(ie dialogue/sfx) and video and move them together
3. you cannot add time/frames back in.
4. Video only starts at bar 1
5. You can't undo if you cut too much from the front. You have to reload.
6. The frames didn't seem to line up with the timecode on the video (was working at 23.976)
7. Sonar seems to choke on processing the film. It takes 5 seconds to start after hitting play. It runs terrible with the clip I had loaded.
But no such issues occur with same video on other sequencing software.
It's great that we can now play the standard videos in the industry but how they are treated needs to be looked at. Two steps forward, one back!
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markyzno
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 14:26:01
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"was working at 23.976"
this is what I did my original test on, as said in a previous post I haven't tested on 24 or 25 fps but the timecode was all over the place on 23.976.
I would LOVE the Bakers to take some of us on to beta test and really get this right....Theres a few of us that work in the commercial and film sectors and I am sure we could add some clout to the team surely?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 14:40:33
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Hi folks,
To clarify it isn't that we don't know what your requirements are. Its a complex scenario since we have to work around some of the inherent limitations/bugs in the platform (Windows). There are a lot of moving parts to video streaming technology and a lot of it resides in OS components. Most of the issues listed above have been reported to Microsoft and we're working on addressing some of them, hopefully for the next update if they are solvable in time. The first goal with this release was to get the new engine in place and handle the newer formats. We'll improve it as we go along.
>>5. You can't undo if you cut too much from the front. You have to reload.
You can reset the video to defaults by going into the video properties page and clicking the reset button.
>>4. Video only starts at bar 1
Limitation in Media foundation that we are working on trying to eliminate.
>>2. you cannot select audio(ie dialogue/sfx) and video and move them together
That would be useful obviously but requires a mechanism to lock/group video and audio. Its really a full feature. Well consider it for a future version.
>>7. Known bug in media foundation with trimming videos. We will try and work with Microsoft on resolving this.
Regarding beta testing, feel free to send in a test application if you have not done so..
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scook
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 14:46:32
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markyzno
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 14:51:25
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"Regarding beta testing, feel free to send in a test application if you have not done so"
How does one go about doing this?
I have so many Video/Movie projects that I could test Sonar X3d on (all of which have now been released, gone through deliverables and passed) and I would be more than happy to help and the new year (thankfully) is quite clear for me.
With regards to your other comments Noel, I can see most honorably that you guys are on it, I can totally sympathize with your current limitations especially with regards to PT as they have their own Avid engine.
X3d as I have stated before is great for more a start up scenario with video/audio but for anyone who earns a crust its a touch more complicated.
But, having said that, if we all work together and use this amazing forum it can only further Sonar in the post Production arena?
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markyzno
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 14:53:55
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scook
Beta program forms here
Cheers Scook! Always the wealth of information! 
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 14:57:49
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You are welcome to apply. http://www.cakewalk.com/Beta/forms/default.aspxYes MF was the only reasonable choice for us on Windows - there aren't many options (Quicktime is terrible as an SDK and doesn't even work on X64) and other proprietary solutions are also buggy and transient. As I said this is a start and we plan on making incremental improvements.
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markyzno
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 15:06:09
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
You are welcome to apply. http://www.cakewalk.com/Beta/forms/default.aspx
Yes MF was the only reasonable choice for us on Windows - there aren't many options (Quicktime is terrible as an SDK and doesn't even work on X64) and other proprietary solutions are also buggy and transient.
As I said this is a start and we plan on making incremental improvements.
One has applied and I so hope I can help rather than grumble. Incremental improvements is all one can do, "Rome wasnt built in a day" but my Good God, IF Sonar could get to somewhere in a world where the video engine ran smooth, the video functionality works, a few extra features or "modes" then it would add serious $$$ to Sonars value. Currently PT have it all wrapped up, this is unfair. Sonar absolutely hammers PT in terms of creative audio workflow, I love it when Editors come down here and see me in action with Sonar...Basically, their jaws drop...BUT, having said that...when it comes to exporting video or even some very basic timecode features I get the sarcastic giggles of "well, PT is industry standard"....Meh, I would LOVE IT if sonar could shut these people up.
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markyzno
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 15:11:25
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] (Quicktime is terrible as an SDK and doesn't even work on X64)
A necessary evil tho i'm afraid, having said that I am very successful on my current system with MOVs and dont have too many issues...There must be a way of getting around the official apple SDK as afterall, Apple is just a jumped up Linux? Plenty of cool freeware out there surely? I am no coder but I do know of some and where theres a will, theres a way!
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wynnsong
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 15:33:40
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Hi folks,
To clarify it isn't that we don't know what your requirements are. Its a complex scenario since we have to work around some of the inherent limitations/bugs in the platform (Windows). There are a lot of moving parts to video streaming technology and a lot of it resides in OS components. Most of the issues listed above have been reported to Microsoft and we're working on addressing some of them, hopefully for the next update if they are solvable in time. The first goal with this release was to get the new engine in place and handle the newer formats. We'll improve it as we go along.
>>5. You can't undo if you cut too much from the front. You have to reload.
You can reset the video to defaults by going into the video properties page and clicking the reset button.
>>4. Video only starts at bar 1
Limitation in Media foundation that we are working on trying to eliminate.
>>2. you cannot select audio(ie dialogue/sfx) and video and move them together
That would be useful obviously but requires a mechanism to lock/group video and audio. Its really a full feature. Well consider it for a future version.
>>7. Known bug in media foundation with trimming videos. We will try and work with Microsoft on resolving this.
Regarding beta testing, feel free to send in a test application if you have not done so..
Thanks Noel for the heads up. Appreciate the all of the attention. I realize video can be a tough nut to crack. It's frustrating when other platforms on Windows don't have these issues at all so not clear why it's Microsoft specific problem. X3 has some amazing features and sometimes that gets lost by us that work 100% in film due to these issues. Again thanks and let us know how we can help.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 15:45:58
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People sometimes forget that it took Pro tools a lot of years and more importantly acquisition by the industry leader in video production to have decent video functionality. I guess I didn't get too upset about the progress in X3d because I expect it to be a process.
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markyzno
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Re: Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/20 15:46:37
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dubdisciple
People sometimes forget that it took Pro tools a lot of years and more importantly acquisition by the industry leader in video production to have decent video functionality. I guess I didn't get too upset about the progress in X3d because I expect it to be a process.
+3
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