Blades
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/02 22:20:18
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I am totally with azslow3 on this, Alex. I am also an IT professional. I have owned my own business supporting other business IT infrastructures for the last 11 years. I worked in corporate IT for 3 different companies for about 15 years in just about every position as well, and my degree is in Computer Information Systems (1989).
So we have now both marked similar territory. This is not about my background or yours, but your statement that I didn't read your post and then stating "It can't be Sonar" is EXACTLY what I got from your post. You were saying that it couldn't be Sonar, yet, I think your logic is completely wrong here, as stated by azslow3.
Maybe I'm just completely off-base on your Sonar bias. I also choose this DAW over others, partly because I prefer the way it works, partially because this is what I invested my time in learning. I only said this because there are often times on the forum that you tend to dismiss people's issues because you believe them to either not be real, the people to be incompetent, or their system to be flawed in some way that couldn't possibly include Sonar. I understand that you are helping to build the list of others' experienced bugs and I respect the effort and how much time you spend here, but sometimes you just come off as a bit dismissive when it comes to people's issues.
No hard feelings :)
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Anderton
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/02 23:01:42
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Blades
I only said this because there are often times on the forum that you tend to dismiss people's issues because you believe them to either not be real, the people to be incompetent, or their system to be flawed in some way that couldn't possibly include Sonar.
Not to speak for Alex, but the more time you spend on any forum like this, the more you run into people who clearly have not made even the most basic effort to solve their problem or describe it in sufficient detail to allow others to help. Fortunately, the Sonar forum is on a much higher level than most, and loaded with advanced users who really do know their stuff - as well as "newbies" who do try to figure things out for themselves before asking for assistance. But we are not immune to people who complain vociferously about some "horrible showstopper" Sonar flaw that turns out to be pilot error or a lack of understanding of the system (or computers in general). We had quite a run of those people a few weeks back (or it may just have been one person with multiple alts and an agenda, who knows); for those here who genuinely try to help - and Alex is one of them - it's easy to lose patience given how many people are just going about their business making music with Sonar, sans drama. This isn't to say at all that Sonar is without issues or potential incompatibilities. However, if you're into betting, you'd probably come out ahead if you bet that a "Sonar doesn't work! Software is broken!!!" thread was likely pilot error instead of a bug. I'm not an IT professional, but I designed electronic projects that were sold as kits. Almost invariably, if someone sent in a kit for repair because the kit didn't work and said "I'm a professional engineer, and obviously something is wrong with your circuit, fix it or I'll report you to the Better Business Bureau" we could be pretty sure it was a cold solder joint or a diode put in backwards. On the other hand if the person said "Look, I'm new at this and I must have screwed up somehow because I've triple-checked everything and the circuit still doesn't work, I'm really sorry and can you please fix it" we could be pretty sure it was a bad part. 
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Anderton
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/02 23:09:39
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Another of my favorite Sonar stories was a review (in an actual print publication several years ago) that said Sonar was totally unacceptable for professional applications because the now time was often "off" by several samples compared to where it was supposed to be, making it "impossible" to set the now time on something like a precise measure boundary. So much for knowing enough to uncheck "Snap to nearest audio zero crossing"...
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jm24
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/03 00:32:01
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In the 30+ years of reading his bits, and building his stuff, I am now convinced that Craig is an alien.
He is everywhere, all the time
He knows everything before anyone else, even though he denies it, and it appears he is only "responding" (time traveler, without doubt)
HE NEVER SLEEPS!!!! ( proof: his post time stamps)
( My mother-in-law only slept about 4 hours a night. I did not like her! )
My wife has eyelids thinner than properly-invisible slices of corned beef; Awake at dawn year round.
( I need more beer.)
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Anderton
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/03 01:58:00
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Kev999
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/03 02:00:45
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CakeAlexS
I was doing a LOT of automated punch in/outs today and then all of the sudden the time line became jerky. I have no idea why. Not only that but volume knobs and loads of other controls became difficult to control (it was like the refresh rate was down to about 0.25 seconds). I was still able to carry on overdubbing but it was irritating.
The problem described here doesn't seem to be any way related to the disappearing now-line phenomena, with which there is no associated jerkiness or poor performance. When it occurs, the now-line in Track View becomes invisible, not only during playback, but totally for the remainder of the session, while everything else about Sonar continues to work normally. Closing and re-opening the project fixes the problem. It may or may not be significant that I haven't experienced the problem lately, not since I recently updated my graphics card drivers. Anyway it seems to be purely a graphic issue.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
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Having fun at work lately
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riniehuigen
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/03 02:15:25
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Anderton
Another of my favorite Sonar stories was a review (in an actual print publication several years ago) that said Sonar was totally unacceptable for professional applications because the now time was often "off" by several samples compared to where it was supposed to be, making it "impossible" to set the now time on something like a precise measure boundary. So much for knowing enough to uncheck "Snap to nearest audio zero crossing"...
Yes... Very good example... I'm new to Sonar coming from Cubase and it took me half an hour to find out what was going on before I found "Snap to nearest audio zero crossing"... :-) At first I thought something was wrong but after some research found I was wrong myself. Most of the information is in the Help file. I am application manager and more than once ask my customers very friendly to use the Help function of their application. The Help function in Sonar is a bit Old school but I like that and it is exellent! By the way... Cubase has the same option but it is switched off by default. Allso Cubase has imperfections but they are somewhere else in the program then in Sonar :-) However... shortly I will do a few posts on things I cannot seem to find out. Allso application managers need help :-)
X3E Studio (64 bit),Win 7 (64 bit), Roland Quad-Capture, i5 quad core CPU, 8 Gb.
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Splat 
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/03 10:47:05
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azslow3
And you still do not know what application can do to drive system crazy till it is rebooted? I do not mean bugs in the system, I mean wrong use of the system.
And if you think my question is theoretical, no. I was forced to work with one program which did that with graphic system. And many times with other system components as well. In one case you could simply wait 15 minutes before program restart instead of rebooting the computer, no system bugs involved, "following standards" pure (this example is from networking).
I do not claim there is this bug in SONAR. But I claim your statement is naive...
Sorry but what is a 'graphic system' or do you mean display adapter. What is 'bugs in the system'. What do you mean by an 'example from networking?' The drivers? The TCP/IP stack? What is a 'program restart' are you talked about processes? What specifically is a 'system bug'. What does 'driving the system crazy' mean? Is there voodoo somehow involved? I suggest getting your terminology straight and getting a grip with the basics before coming up with a decent counter arguement that can be discussed in a sensible manner. The post is meaningless (what are you talking about?) and if you had read my post correctly, not relevant.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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azslow3
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/03 12:18:22
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CakeAlexS
azslow3
And you still do not know what application can do to drive system crazy till it is rebooted? I do not mean bugs in the system, I mean wrong use of the system.
And if you think my question is theoretical, no. I was forced to work with one program which did that with graphic system. And many times with other system components as well. In one case you could simply wait 15 minutes before program restart instead of rebooting the computer, no system bugs involved, "following standards" pure (this example is from networking).
I do not claim there is this bug in SONAR. But I claim your statement is naive...
Sorry but what is a 'graphic system' or do you mean display adapter.
I mean Software Graphic System, which includes (graphic) driver, related OS components (core, window and desktop managers, etc.) and corresponding APIs. What is 'bugs in the system'. Either general mistakes in the framework concept or mistakes in concrete realization of that framework. What do you mean by an 'example from networking?' The drivers? The TCP/IP stack? I have not seen cases when waiting 15 minutes between closing and new starting of application could solve some problem in case the application had bugs in graphic related code. But I have seen that with network related programs. And yes, TCP/IP stack related. And I also think in case you have experience in network programming, you should understand why it is possible. What is a 'program restart' are you talked about processes? First closing some application and then starting it. What specifically is a 'system bug'. =='bug in the system' What does 'driving the system crazy' mean? When some particular application affect the (operation) system. Making it slow/unstable/crashing other applications. Is there voodoo somehow involved? Computers are invented and implemented by normal people. No voodoo involved. I suggest getting your terminology straight and getting a grip with the basics before coming up with a decent counter arguement that can be discussed in a sensible manner. Too late, I have already written my previous post  The post is meaningless (what are you talking about?) and if you had read my post correctly, not relevant.
I have no problem with the fact that my post is meaningless and not relevant for you. But that was forum post, not PM. Seriously, I know you really help many users and provide many informative statements. In that context you deserve big respect. But we all have bad days when we come to strange conclusions, using arguments like "my is bigger". Reading your posts in this thread, I have understood you position as the following: "In case program X has problem, but this problem disappear only after system restart and not after the program restart, the problem comes not from the program but from something else". I disagree with that statement. Taking your number of posts and activity, casual readers can accept your conclusion as a rule. That is why I have posted (with some explanation) my opinion.
post edited by azslow3 - 2014/08/03 12:35:09
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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Splat
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/03 12:57:38
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Sorry I should not have come across as being negative here but I still don't see the point you are trying to make other than a list of generalistic symptoms and possible causes. You didn't troubleshoot the issue I did so it's hard for me to understand how you come to any conclusions, are you experiencing the issue? What were the steps you took to reach your conclusion? You say my conclusion is wrong but you don't really state clearly why it is wrong other than being pretty generalistic to be honest. You don't really provide any evidence or facts to draw your own conclusions on this specific issue. I on the other hand troubleshooted a specific issue and managed to rule out that Sonar was being effected by something external to the application. I killed a number of processs in task manager and symptoms still persisted. Performance of the PC was fine. Furthermore it produced similar symptoms to what the op experienced. The time line was disappearing after a while and the symptoms would only clear upon a reboot. To come to a conclusion that Sonar is somehow at fault here would be totally wrong. I wish I troubleshooted further to find out the root cause but did not have the time. Up until then I have never experienced such an issue and maybe I never will again. If I do I will be the first to post here. What I definately do know is this was some specific issue under the kernel most likely drivers, I would assume it would be my audio interface but that would be a speculation (something I try to avoid) not an actual conclusion. Of course it is possible it could be network related as well (I did say at or under kernel level didn't I?) , although I see it being extremely unlikely for the whole OS would have slowed down and other processes would have been seriously effected in this scenario. As Kev says it was not a performance issue. Oh and BTW I'm also keeping my eye on the mice drivers as that was a recent change to my system. Sure display drivers could be a factor as well. BTW We all politely suggested to the OP that he updated his display drivers, even giving specific links, but all he did was complain about how busy he was (spending his time posting again and again here) and formed his own judgements without ruling it out so we gave up on him.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/08/03 14:08:35
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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vintagevibe
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/03 23:15:58
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CakeAlexSThe time line was disappearing after a while and the symptoms would only clear upon a reboot. To come to a conclusion that Sonar is somehow at fault here would be totally wrong.
This does not prove that the problem is not Sonar's. Sonar has had several issues that disappeared on reboot that were later fixed by Cakewalk. CakeAlexS
BTW We all politely suggested to the OP that he updated his display drivers, even giving specific links, but all he did was complain about how busy he was (spending his time posting again and again here) and formed his own judgements without ruling it out so we gave up on him.
I stated on page 2 that my drivers were up to date. I stated that I am unwilling to troubleshoot any further with Sonar because it always leads down a "rabbit hole" and I don't have time for that. Apparently that offends you as the Cakewalk crusader. More importantly, I didn't ask for, nor do I require your help. Perhaps you wouldn't get so defensive if you didn't fancy yourself the Cakewalk hall monitor. No disrespect intended.
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Splat
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/03 23:48:44
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A post number is generally better as some us have more posts per page. And you still don't tell us what version of the driver you are running (updating via windows update will not do for instance), and you never tried the drivers Bob and I suggested several times or gave any feedback.... Anyway don't worry we don't care any more either. I do find it hilarious that one day I'm being called a cakewalk apologist for stating that you cannot declare a bug without actual reproducable steps (especially when they aren't being troubleshooted as you freely admit, and hardly anybody else is experiencing it), and another day I'm being told I am putting Cakewalk in disrepute by listing actual reproducable bugs. Guess I get what I deserve ;) In regards to rebooting you just took that quote out of context without the full explanation I gave. You seem to have more time to write then read or troubleshoot. I won't bother writing 'no disrespect intended' as a get out of jail for free card.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/08/04 00:10:20
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/04 00:34:10
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vintagevibe
Apparently that offends you as the Cakewalk crusader. When X3 came out, the front forum page was filled by Alex with individual threads about each bug he could find and confirm...hardly a Cakewalk crusader, especially given that the forums were never intended to be a center for bug-tracking. But note that he didn't just complain about a bug, he provided a recipe to repeat it, provided data, AND asked others to confirm. The dude likes to troubleshoot. He also tries to be helpful, I think it's the way he's wired. Granted, there is self-interest involved because he uses Sonar so he wants it to work as well as humanly possible. We all do. If we were using other DAWs, we'd want them to work as well as humanly possible, too. As I said, he recognizes Sonar's strengths and limitations. He crusades as much about the limitations (ask him about drum maps sometime) as the strengths. More importantly, I didn't ask for, nor do I require your help.
Well actually, you did come in here asking a question. As such, the community tried to answer it. No one is excluded from that process. Given that there were multiple complaints about the disappearing now time with X2 that seem to have all but disappeared with X3e (I don't recall anyone in this thread saying it was still a problem, although one post said it ceased being a problem after a graphics card driver update), it hardly seems illogical to conclude there is something about your system that causes this to happen. Several people have tried to help you overcome this problem, but as you have stated, you have no interest in, or inclination to spend time, fixing the problem. Therefore, there is no point in continuing this thread to try to locate the source of that problem. If no one else is affected and you don't care, then no one else needs to care.
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vintagevibe
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/04 10:04:25
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My question was about what Cakewalk might be doing to fix it. I didn't want to get involved in troubleshooting as stated. I then was treated in a condescending way because I didn't want to troubleshoot. Then 4 pages of troubleshooting later I'm talked about condescendingly again because I didn't troubleshoot. Alex may like to troubleshoot but he takes it way to personally and gets defensive when he's not the guy with the answer.
However, as you said, "If no one else is affected and you don't care, then no one else needs to care". I agree.
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Splat
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/04 11:18:34
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Nope you state it's a bug and won't troubleshoot, different. And we hardly ever get complaints about timeline with X3E. Anyway at least we all agree on one thing. BTW If anybody else is experiencing this then I'm more than happy to try and help and if I come across it again I (or others no doubt) will get to the source of it. Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/04 11:35:31
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@Vintagevibe, I don't know if this will help you or not - it's only about 4 sentences: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2697392 Seems some folks also did a hide/show of the Inspector Pane and it would come back. The above was for X2, but maybe worth trying in X3e just to see if it works. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Anderton
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/04 14:12:39
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vintagevibe
My question was about what Cakewalk might be doing to fix it.
I doubt they can justify spending any effort trying to fix something they can't reproduce.
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Splat
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/04 15:15:03
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vintagevibe My question was about what Cakewalk might be doing to fix it. Anderton I doubt they can justify spending any effort trying to fix something they can't reproduce. Yup full circle, as I said way back in #5 CakeAlexS
Without exact steps it would be extremely unlikely your issue will ever be resolved. Thanks :)
Ta.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Will we have to buy the next version to get rid of the disapearing NOW LINE bug?
2014/08/04 15:58:03
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CakeAlexS
Yup full circle
Well, I am into looping.
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