P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 05:41:41
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Thanks Mudgel I use track templates all the time they are critical to my workflow and really useful.
In the situation we are discussing though they are less useful as if you insert track templates during the mix process for bus structures etc then they wouldn't be recognised by mix recall. Alternatively if I set up a massive track template from the onset with tons of buses I may want to use or not during the mix process, the mix recall functionality currently doesn't recognise changes and recall the routing between these buses.
I totally understand that mix recall doesn't and probably shouldn't ever keep track of changes to core data but as described earlier a bus doesn't ever store any data / recorded audio it is just a routing mechanism for it so in my eyes it would be wonderful if mix recall could also bring back changes to the right of the master fader
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mudgel
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 05:56:03
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If you want to edit or compare what amount,a to different versions of the same music/song you can do that too.
Set Sonar to open multiple projects and save your edits with versions. Then you can switch between different versions just by selecting that project in the Window menu.
Just a thought.
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 06:02:32
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Tried that too but these days some of my projects get pretty big and resource hungry with a million tracks and plugins etc and although I have a monster of a machine I've found that it tends to crash if you have two versions of a very large project open. Some memory hungry plugin somewhere is going to get you :-)
Which leads me onto another thing that would be amazing for Cakewalk to introduce which would be to sandbag plugins like Cubase and Studio One does, so if your plugin crashes it doesn't take the DAW with it. That would be super cool
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mudgel
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 06:03:38
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I'm out of ideas now. Sorry.
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 06:06:00
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Thanks for your input and advice, I think we both got to the same point.
I personally think it would be great if they would implement bus modifications to the Mix Recall feature and that really would make it killer funstionality
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 08:52:20
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johnnyV
Well I guess if you've never used something like the 01v you might have no clue what we are talking about here.
Back in the days when my music was coming from an Atari driving midi sound modules and the audio from an 8 track. The 01v was this amazing tool, ( still is)
It was slick because the Atari midi could control the 01v and automate the faders. It would recall whole mixes including the 2 effects plus the 4 Aux sends. Your whole mixdown was automated and saved. And this could be shared between songs.
To much bass on all the songs , recall the mix and add a little more hi pass.
If you recorded a band and had 12 songs, each song had a ready made template with the recalls. I was hoping that the mix recall was sort of the same thing but I guess that's asking to much. It's still only possible using outboard digital mixers. I guess a DAW mixer is basic and limited.
It's mostly needed when you record 12 songs at a session which are all sort of the same and end up using a lot of the same settings and effects on all the songs. I know some of you don't fathom this as most people are just working on their own stuff song by song, but there is work to be had recording bands out there. I don't think any DAW has a 01v mode at this point. Seems the real studios all still use real mixing consoles. Digital and analog. I kick myself for not buying the ADAT card for the 01v.
Mix recall in SONAR can do everything and way more than any digital mixer could hope to achieve :) >>It's mostly needed when you record 12 songs at a session which are all sort of the same and end up using a lot of the same settings and effects on all the songs. You can do this workflow in MixRecall. Start with the same a project and as you go along save scenes for your settings per song. Then if you ever need to repeat the settings in a different song just recall the settings. As long as the tracks and buses match up it will work. In the future we are considering some enhancements that will add to the multi-song workflow.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2015/01/20 09:09:48
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 08:56:21
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southpaw3473
What I want to know is if this will allow me to recall "scenes" during playback. I could do this on an old Yamaha digital standalone recorder (AW4416) which had an O1V mixing board integrated. I loved the feature.
For instance, at the chorus of a song I get all my basic settings and levels down for that part and create a scene which includes all its settings (automation, levels, pan, effects levels, etc). I save it as CHORUS. When the chorus comes up later in the song I use the scene recall and insert the CHORUS scene. All the chorus settings drop in at that point. It is wicked helpful with very complex mixes with lots of time changes and moving parts.
That's the "scene" idea but I always found it extremely handy. It doesn't seem that the new Mix Recall does that.
You are talking about sequencing scenes here. I understand what you are saying but in a DAW its far more natural to use automation rather than swapping in a whole new set of parameters using a scene. I don't see any advantage of changing automation and levels this way rather than recording automation. It would be pretty hard to understand what your mix will do otherwise.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 09:01:30
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P-Theory
Oh its definitely a cool feature and I've used it a lot already as my workflow is basically the same as you've described. I think the only bit that would make this Mix recall perfect for me would be if it recognised and restored buses and associated routing as well because they are nothing to do with the core data / wav files and are just a routing mechanism.
Mix recall does restore routing but it requires the target buses to exist in the project today. We may enhance it to restore missing buses...
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 09:02:40
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Also bear in mind that the reason the AW44 worked that way is because it only had very limited effects and single instances of those effects and therefore it was just recalling changes to the parameters on those effects. Automation is the way to acheive what you're trying to do
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 09:03:42
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I've not managed to get it to recall routing just tried again and it doesn't on my system
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 09:06:23
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P-Theory
Any thoughts on my comments around buses and routing Noel, is that too big an ask?
I think it mostly does what you want it to do except that it won't create the buses for you. Is it a problem to ensure that the buses exist in all versions of the scenes for you?
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 09:08:39
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Sorry we got out of sync message wise then. Mix recall doesn't bring back routing on my system. I'll try and get a video for you
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 09:11:05
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I think it mostly does what you want it to do except that it won't create the buses for you. Is it a problem to ensure that the buses exist in all versions of the scenes for you?
No that wouldn't be a problem because I could just set up tons of buses in the initial project template and whether I used them or not they would be there. But Mix recall definitely doesn't recall bus routing on my system at the moment. Just trying to get a screen capture downloaded so I can upload a video
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 09:16:06
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southpaw3473
Sanderxpander
Select all, "Tracks" menu (arrange view), "bounce to track(s)"?
Not too sure what that means. What is "arrange view?"
Sorry, "arrange view" is the name used in many other DAWs for what is in Sonar called "track view". It's the main working window, the one with an overview of your arrangement and tracks.
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southpaw3473
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 09:56:17
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
southpaw3473
What I want to know is if this will allow me to recall "scenes" during playback. I could do this on an old Yamaha digital standalone recorder (AW4416) which had an O1V mixing board integrated. I loved the feature.
For instance, at the chorus of a song I get all my basic settings and levels down for that part and create a scene which includes all its settings (automation, levels, pan, effects levels, etc). I save it as CHORUS. When the chorus comes up later in the song I use the scene recall and insert the CHORUS scene. All the chorus settings drop in at that point. It is wicked helpful with very complex mixes with lots of time changes and moving parts.
That's the "scene" idea but I always found it extremely handy. It doesn't seem that the new Mix Recall does that.
You are talking about sequencing scenes here. I understand what you are saying but in a DAW its far more natural to use automation rather than swapping in a whole new set of parameters using a scene. I don't see any advantage of changing automation and levels this way rather than recording automation. It would be pretty hard to understand what your mix will do otherwise.
Noel, The only advantage is it's a time saver. Instead of having to change all the individual parameters for a particular part of the song each time it occurs in a song a scene change does it all at one time. Not essential ( I haven't worked with the old O1V mixers in almost a decade) but it was a handy feature. And just to add, I cannot wait for tomorrow!
We'll not risk another frontal assault-that rabbit's dynamite!!!
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 10:14:59
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It would have to be sequenced since recalling a scene can potentially cause gaps or glitches in realtime playback depending on what is being restored
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southpaw3473
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 10:20:13
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
It would have to be sequenced since recalling a scene can potentially cause gaps or glitches in realtime playback depending on what is being restored
It was just sequencer data essentially. It didn't change audio or delete clips. But it would recall a raft of settings at one time.
We'll not risk another frontal assault-that rabbit's dynamite!!!
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 10:20:26
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
P-Theory
Oh its definitely a cool feature and I've used it a lot already as my workflow is basically the same as you've described. I think the only bit that would make this Mix recall perfect for me would be if it recognised and restored buses and associated routing as well because they are nothing to do with the core data / wav files and are just a routing mechanism.
Mix recall does restore routing but it requires the target buses to exist in the project today. We may enhance it to restore missing buses...
Hi Noel Here is a video showing that it doesn't recall routing for me (unless I'm doing something wrong?) Thanks https://www.dropbox.com/s...0rouitn%20AVI.avi?dl=0
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Anderton
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 10:28:10
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southpaw3473
The only advantage is it's a time saver. Instead of having to change all the individual parameters for a particular part of the song each time it occurs in a song a scene change does it all at one time. Not essential ( I haven't worked with the old O1V mixers in almost a decade) but it was a handy feature.
Do snapshot automation, then copy and paste the snapshot automation nodes wherever you want them.
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southpaw3473
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 10:35:31
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Craig, IIRC don't you have to do a snapshot of each individual parameter, i.e. volume, pan, effects send, etc? That is why I never really used it. I don't think you can hit Ctrl-A and then hit Snapshot, right?
We'll not risk another frontal assault-that rabbit's dynamite!!!
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 12:32:21
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 15:49:29
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☄ Helpfulby P-Theory 2015/01/20 16:52:39
You are right. I think I misspoke on that aspect of mix-recall.
As designed today Mix recall doesn't actually change the routing aspect of your mix. IOW it will not touch the current routing or add or remove sends to tracks or buses. This can get pretty complex easily because you might be restoring a mix scene where the routing is completely different on top of the current project.
Swapping in the entire routing from a scene to the project might be possible but it would mean potentially creating new buses and deleting unused sends and buses etc. Otherwise you would quickly end up with a mess of merged stuff from the incoming scenes.
What we do today is restore the states for the routing. i.e if you have sends it will respect the send enables etc in the mix scene. If a send is not used in the incoming scene the destination send will be disabled but won't be deleted.
It might be possible to just handle restoring outputs as you show in your example however, since that is not a destructive operation. Let me think about it some more and talk to some folks here...
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 16:49:01
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Great thanks very much for your input Noel.
If there is a way you could add that functionality it would make an already great feature into an absolutely killer one! It would mean you could just set up tons of buses in the master template and then have absolute control over your compression and gain staging during the mix.
Maybe a way round it would be to have a fixed amount of buses? I can't see anyone ever needing more than say 20 buses and that way the ones you don't use could just sit dormant as it were
The fact you guys pay attention and listen to your customers is what makes the Cakewalk experience a fantastic user experience and is truly appreciated
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 21:42:11
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Just had a major crash by trying to chnge mix recalls during playback and it has totally corrupted the session so it won't load anymore.
I have a previous version pf the session that has the same bus structure. Is there a way I can load my mix scenes I saved in the original session ito the older (now current) session? I can see the mix recalls in the mix scenes folder in explorer (although they are no longer named what I called them in the orignal session but I can see from the time created they are correct).
There is no "file open" type functionality I can see in the mix recall module therefore I cant see a way of trying to open the mix scenes into the new session.
Any ideas? otherwise I have just lost a days work
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scook
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/20 21:46:23
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Based in this piece of info http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3145961 Open the browser to the mix scenes folder and drag the scene(s) into the project one at a time and save them again under a new name. To save clutter if the none scenes are used by any other project file in the folder, move the screens out of the mix scenes folder first to another location then drop them into the project and save them again.
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johnnyV
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/21 09:11:00
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Thanks for your clarification Noel.
I'll look forward to giving it a spin.
Most of the songs are all the same and track templates are what makes the job easier.
There might be overdubs and retakes, but one could make sure they are put in the correct place when done.
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