soundtweaker
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1036
- Joined: 2003/11/12 12:25:59
- Location: San Francisco
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 02:30:36
(permalink)
Not all the midi bug are Sonar related. There's been some age old midi bugs that have been fixed in Windows 10.
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 02:33:02
(permalink)
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 02:44:14
(permalink)
alewgro this is STILL not fixed :(
Basic MIDI functionality, still broken for 5 years now.
Please don't blindly bump all threads mentioning MIDI recording/echoing problems without reading through them very carefully. In this case, see my post #20, and the OP's post #24. This issue was not related to Silktone's bug; it was user error.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 06:51:03
(permalink)
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 10:31:23
(permalink)
|
SilkTone
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1566
- Joined: 2003/11/10 17:41:28
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 10:48:22
(permalink)
brundlefly
alewgro this is STILL not fixed :(
Basic MIDI functionality, still broken for 5 years now.
Please don't blindly bump all threads mentioning MIDI recording/echoing problems without reading through them very carefully. In this case, see my post #20, and the OP's post #24. This issue was not related to Silktone's bug; it was user error. No this is actually still a real issue. The OP ran into the issue described here, which presents itself as MIDI crosstalk until you toggle some settings (follow the steps in that thread), restart (apparently) or whatever. After that the issue goes away. It's an improvement over how it used to be when there was no way to work around it at all. So it wasn't user error in the OP's case.
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 11:28:08
(permalink)
Exactly. Sonar is NOT listening to the input device you choose until you do some crafty switching back and forth, which seriously - after 5 years still not fixed is plain embarassing.
When was the last problem report made? I will make one myself tonight when I have time for an in-depth write and with screen shots. I will post it here.
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 12:40:40
(permalink)
Bumping all these threads though sadly has made the wrong one go into problem reports... Too much noise. It would have been far better to reference all the posts with hyperlinks on one thread. Like here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3009969Never mind.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/05/14 12:48:01
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 13:01:45
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche Too much noise.
Exactly what I was hoping to prevent.  Yes, there are issues. I have replicated and acknowledged them previously, but this thread is not a good reference because there was user error and misunderstanding complicating the issue, if not completely accounting for it. EDIT: Also, the alarmist and non-specific nature of the thread title is not helpful to begin with. This will my last post in this thread, and I hope everyone will voluntarily let it go back into hibernation.
post edited by brundlefly - 2015/05/14 13:17:32
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3325
- Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 16:11:48
(permalink)
I have MIDI Preferences set to echo the currently selected track, and if I see another blue light indicating echo on another track besides the selected one, I turn that echo off. This can be confusing as first.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
|
williamcopper
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1120
- Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
- Location: Virginia, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 18:26:15
(permalink)
Good discussions. The essential thing: "Tracks" are nearly infinite, while "Channels" fall into the Midi standard, only 16. Still in the very latest Sonar Platinum there are things that treat midi channel as a meaningful thing, forgetting that we work with hundreds of tracks.
|
SilkTone
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1566
- Joined: 2003/11/10 17:41:28
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/05/14 19:16:34
(permalink)
williamcopper Good discussions. The essential thing: "Tracks" are nearly infinite, while "Channels" fall into the Midi standard, only 16. Still in the very latest Sonar Platinum there are things that treat midi channel as a meaningful thing, forgetting that we work with hundreds of tracks. In theory we have unlimited MIDI tracks too. The analogy would be comparing a MIDI port to an audio track: MIDI Port -> Audio Track MIDI Channel 1-16 -> Track L/R DAWs got around the 16 MIDI channel limitation by introducing the concept of a MIDI port, which itself is not part of the MIDI spec. It is unfortunately this port concept that keeps tripping Sonar up. The initial bug was that MIDI events from one port would bleed into another unrelated port (they should all be unrelated and completely isolated). That's like the left channel of audio track 1 bleeding into the left channel of audio track 2. Something that would be completely unacceptable by most people, yet we had MIDI bleed all over the place for countless years. The fix a while ago did address the worst of the issues, but there are still some issues that linger.
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
|
prophecyjoris
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1
- Joined: 2015/01/29 10:56:36
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/07/01 13:22:25
(permalink)
.
post edited by prophecyjoris - 2015/07/01 13:32:02
|
Spencer
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 299
- Joined: 2005/06/21 00:12:35
- Location: Montréal, QC
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/07/01 16:22:28
(permalink)
I used to have that weird MIDI crosstalk thing, but not anymore since I raised the midi buffer to 1000 for some reason.
|
SilkTone
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1566
- Joined: 2003/11/10 17:41:28
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/07/01 16:54:14
(permalink)
Spencer I used to have that weird MIDI crosstalk thing, but not anymore since I raised the midi buffer to 1000 for some reason. Over the many years of dealing with the MIDI crosstalk bug I tried everything, including setting every buffer I can find to their extreme values. Nothing worked accept the partial fix that Noel did in X3d. It is possible that you had a different workflow from mine, which might explain the discrepancy.
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
|
williamcopper
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1120
- Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
- Location: Virginia, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/07/01 17:12:51
(permalink)
I read all this before realizing it was an old thread. I do not have any of these problems, but I do three things that might help someone with them: no midi echo; no "omni" setting; no midi out from any VSTI synth. The last one might be interesting to mess with one day, but it seems to me to be easier to get layering of sounds in other ways.
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/07/01 17:42:36
(permalink)
williamcopper I read all this before realizing it was an old thread. I do not have any of these problems, but I do three things that might help someone with them: OK... williamcopper no midi echo;
Since MIDI echo is what makes a software or hardware synth react to the controller as it is being played I'm not at all sure how you can manage without it. Seems kind of essential to me. williamcopper no "omni" setting;
"Omni" has its uses. One example is a beginner who, perhaps knowing little about MIDI, just wants to plug in a controller and have it work without worrying about MIDI channels. Omni can also be useful when recording MIDI controllers sent by a multi-tymbral synth that uses a seperate MIDI channel for each voice. williamcopper no midi out from any VSTI synth. The last one might be interesting to mess with one day, but it seems to me to be easier to get layering of sounds in other ways.
MIDI out from VSTi's is something many of us were flagging up as a serious omission for years, and later, when it was supposed to work and didn't, major bug. As well as allowing e.g. a third-party VST sequencer to control one or more VSTIs in the box it also allows for the use of vst programming plugin and control interfaces with external MIDI hardware such as real synths or guitar multi effects. There is more to life than software synths and samples. The hardware synth market is pretty big at the moment with new models and reissues of old synths coming out all the time. If Sonar doesn't make it easy to work with them then that'll be a pretty hefty chunk of the market closed to Cakewalk.
post edited by tlw - 2015/07/01 17:50:04
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
SilkTone
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1566
- Joined: 2003/11/10 17:41:28
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/07/01 20:10:19
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2015/07/02 01:31:42
williamcopper I read all this before realizing it was an old thread. I do not have any of these problems, but I do three things that might help someone with them: no midi echo; no "omni" setting; no midi out from any VSTI synth. The last one might be interesting to mess with one day, but it seems to me to be easier to get layering of sounds in other ways.
If you don't use VST MIDI out you won't run into the problem. However some of us absolutely rely on it, so it isn't just a "nice to play with one day", it is a requirement. If you do use it, you also have to use the MIDI echo feature in order to route the MIDI back into another track. It is not simply about layering sounds. For example you can use JamStix to drive any other drum synth. But then you rely on VST MIDI out to work properly.
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/07/01 21:20:43
(permalink)
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Dysfunctional MIDI everybody is ok with
2015/07/02 01:27:23
(permalink)
SilkTone If you don't use VST MIDI out you won't run into the problem. However some of us absolutely rely on it, so it isn't just a "nice to play with one day", it is a requirement. If you do use it, you also have to use the MIDI echo feature in order to route the MIDI back into another track. It is not simply about layering sounds. For example you can use JamStix to drive any other drum synth. But then you rely on VST MIDI out to work properly.
I have been learning about MIDI output the hard way
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|