biozel
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[Solved] Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
i have numerous performance issues and lots of dropouts when not playing with latest Sonar (05.2016). not that those issues are only occured with latest update - but lets say they didn't disappear with latest update. while i understand how hard is usually to figure out whats happening on remote PC, i did some research that i hope will help Sonar developers to understand the roots of issues. general description: while working on one project i faced difficulties working with Sonar but had no time to understand the cause for that. after i finished project i realized that my PC spends lots of resources on Sonar when i even do nothing. so i saw that if i open that project and just do nothing then CPU load is around 60-65%! so i started experimenting with various plug ins by turning them on and off. i also had and have lots of drop outs. please see details below.
------------------ MEMORY ------------------------------- * the Audio folder contains 103 audio files with total size of 6.67 GB * when project is loaded the RAM usage is 7 692 MB i have no idea why RAM usage is so large but it correlates with Audio folder size. the interesting thing is that there are bounced tracks and previously imported audio tracks there (my project is remix and initially i imported lots of audio tracks from original track. now i deleted that tracks but audio files are still left in Audio folder). as for bounced tracks - i had some tracks frozen for some time but now all tracks are not frozen so i expect that there is no need in "Serum 3 (Bounced, 77)" kind of files. anyway, if speaking about Audio folder - files like Crash drum audio sound are so small that we may not count them. for example "crash-019 (91).wav" is 89 kb of size. if not count bounced audio and previously imported (but now not used) audio files then rest files are less than 1MB in size. CONCLUSION: it is unclear why Sonar uses so much memory ------------------- CPU ---------------------------------------- so i have this system: * OS: Windows 10 Pro x64 bit * CPU: Intel Core i705930K * RAM: 64 GB DDR-4 * System drive: 512 SSD * Project drive: 2TB HDD (7200) * Screen resolution: Ultra HD * NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 video card * TC Electronic Konnekt 6 sound card (used via Firewire). driver for windows 7 is used (as they didn't have it for Windows 10 yet) * SONAR: version 22.5.0 BUILD 45 [2016.05] - x64 project that i have has 57 tracks and 14 buses. no track is frozen. most of tracks are synt/instrument tracks. 8 tracks are audio tracks. now here is what i do and what are results in Task Manager utility (NOTE: music is not playing, this is just the IDLE mode!): 1. just opened project and turned off all plug ins in FX bins and prochannel CPU: 15-17% (down to 0% when inactive) 2. turned on prochannel numbers are same as in (1) 3. turned on Soundtoys Decapitator plugins (19 instances) CPU: 19-24% 4. turned on FabFilter Pro-Q 2 plugin (51 instance) - my go-to eq numbers are similar to (3) - 22-24% 5. turned on Waves dbx-160 stereo plugin (8 instances) CPU: 27-32% 6. turned on Soundtoys Echoboy plugin (15 instances) CPU: 29-34% 7. turned on Nugen Audio element plug ins (4 monofiers, 3 stereoplacer, 4 stereoizer) CPU: the same as in (6) 8. turned on rest FabFilter plug ins (Pro-C 2, Pro-L, Pro-MB - 13 instances in total) CPU: 32-38% 9. turned on Softube Drawmer S73 (13 instances) CPU: 40-41% 10. turned on Waves Reel ADT, H-Delay Stereo and Abbey Road Plate reverb (each by 1 instance) CPU: 43% 11. turned on FabFilter Pro-Q 2 and FabFilter Pro-L on Master bus CPU: 43-45% 12. turned on 14 rest Soundoys plugins (pan man, phase mistress, crystalizer, devil-loc, radiator) CPU: 48% 13. turned on rest 17 Waves plugins (puig child, puigtek eq, manny m delay, center, cla-3a, jjp-bass, cla-effects, h-delay, center, cla-bass) CPU: 56% 14. turned on rest plug ins (couple of Imperial Delay, one Blackhole reverb, bifilter2, FuzzPlus3) CPU: 60% CONCLUSION: when not hitting Play button even once i have Sonar taking 60% of CPU (this number varies of cause) for the project and lots of dropouts (while i made items 1-14 i had about 30 dropouts). i believe this is not normal. ----------------------- OTHER ISSUES ------------------------------------ * when turning on/off plugins in Console view audio dropouts occur from time to time. note that i'm talking about situation when nothing is played - i'm just enabling/disabling plugins. interesting thing: when dropout occurs the CPU usage goes down to 1-2% or so. in other words it becomes as expected one more interesting thing: if after drop out you switch to some other application and then back to Sonar, CPU usage starts increasing again and in couple of seconds come to the state that was before drop out * audio dropouts also occur when not playing but doing some trivial actions: saving project, scrolling console view ----------------------- SUGGESTIONS ----------------------------------------------- * when i select/touch anything on track in Console view (for example turning on plug-in in FX bin or enable/disable FX bin) the track must be selected * "on/off" buttons states for FX bin and ProChannel modules are not that recognizable on the dark theme. what i mean is that as long as there are a lot of details in UI then gray/orange color switch is not that easy to see. i would expect the background color of the buttons to be changed rather than icon color * if FX bin is disabled then i would expect to clearly understand that plugins are also passed by. while it is easy to see when plugins are disabled (bg color is gray), it is not that obvious when plugin itself is enabled but its FX bin is disabled. in this case bg color still remains orange but a bit different orange. i have to say that these two orange colors don't differ that much. i suggest that if plugin is enabled but its FX bin is disabled then plugin must have gray background (singaling that it is omitted) but with either orange outline or orange dot (signaling that the plugin is actually enabled still) * scrollbars bar color is not that different from scrollbar's emtpy space color. on large screen it is sometimes hard to point the bar by mouse
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ampfixer
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 18, 16 7:18 PM
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Simply too many issues to handle in one post. You have a lot of plugs going and many of them will have big latency issues.You can't track like that and if you are now mixing you'll need to really increase your buffers to prevent drop out. Why not break this down into a few questions.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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scook
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 18, 16 7:24 PM
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And please include config info such as project sample rate, record bit depth, ASIO buffer setting....
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 18, 16 8:33 PM
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The engine is on even if the transport isn't because you may want to hear instruments when you play a MIDI keyboard or virtual controller. Or maybe you want to hear reverb tails after hitting stop, or you want to input monitor a track and hear your effects. So, the CPU load isn't unexpected when you have a lot of plugins. What latency are you running at? if you are getting a lot of drop outs, you may need to raise the buffer size. Since you have a lot of audio, disk performance is critical, so you'll want to be sure that's performing well by running a utility such as HD Tune. There's a lot of helpful folks here. Keith
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 18, 16 9:35 PM
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update:
* installed asio4all, set buffer to 2080 samples instead of 512 * DPC latency checker says "This machine should be able to handle real-time streaming of audio and/or video data without drop-outs." the utility shows current latency a bit less than 1500 millisecs * Sonar reports Asio reported latencies: Input = 0, Output = 43.3 millisecs * Sonar now takes 48-49% of CPU usage in idle mode comparing to previous 60%
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 18, 16 9:40 PM
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* RAM usage is now 7848 MB
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brundlefly
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 19, 16 0:02 PM
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biozel update:
* installed asio4all, set buffer to 2080 samples instead of 512 * DPC latency checker says "This machine should be able to handle real-time streaming of audio and/or video data without drop-outs." the utility shows current latency a bit less than 1500 millisecs I recommend you uninstall ASIO4ALL. Your Konnect6 should have native ASIO drivers, and ASIO4ALL will buy you nothing, and may cause more issues. First, understand that the DPC latency (a measure of how fast the CPU is able to respond to processing requests of all types) will be in microseconds (us), not milliseconds. Despite DPCLAT saying that's good enough, that number is quite high for a DAW. In my experience, most machines stay under 200us peak pretty easily, and a good setup will stay under 100. My new machine is amazing in this respect, running under 30 most of the time. The CPU usage meter in SONAR is a measure of how much of the time available to process a buffer of audio is currently being used, and the time available is basically the length of a buffer. At typical buffer settings of 64-256 samples (approx. 1.5 - 6ms at 44.1kHz) a DPC latency of 1500us (1.5ms) is going to be a problem. At 512, somewhat less so, and at 2048, your CPU should not be breaking a sweat almost no matter what's in the project. So I'm not sure why your CPU is running so high with the ASIO buffer up at 2048, but you definitely need to look into lowering the DPC latency in any case. Generally, this means looking for unnecessary system drivers that are causing it, and shutting them down. The most common offenders are Bluetooth and WiFi. Try running the free LatencyMon which gives more information on what's causing the latency than does DPCLAT. EDIT: Also meant to mention, you should disable Speedstep, C-states and Turboboost in BIOS, and make sure CPU cores are not getting parked. You can Google these keywords against site:forum.cakewalk.com to find more info.
post edited by brundlefly - June 19, 16 0:25 PM
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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scook
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 19, 16 0:13 PM
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From http://www.tcelectronic.com/desktop-konnekt-6/support/ Note: Currently, TC Near is not compatible with Windows 10, and we recommend users not to update. Subscribe to our newsletter to receive information about software updates.
If this is the case, may want to replace the interface or install a supported OS.
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kevinwal
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 19, 16 1:25 AM
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Seriously, though, do you have enough plugs going on here?  I'd freeze every one of those tracks, or better yet, render them all out and mix them in another project without all those plugs. Whatever you choose to do to get around it, Sonar has zero control over what those plugs do with the signal, so pointing that particular finger at Sonar misses the real culprits, imho. Your system has 64gb of ram. 7.9 GB of memory usage is not unusual in apps of this type. Note that that number may not be the actual memory usage of sonar, only what it thinks it has. The OS has tricks to map data in and out of memory depending on available RAM and the amount of memory all the processes are asking for. It's the working set that's the real number. In a system with the huge resources you have available, the OS will be pretty generous in what it allows processes to have and you may never see a page fault even if Sonar were to load the entire set of clips into RAM. That's why having a boat load of RAM is such a good thing. Whatever else is going on here, RAM usage is not your problem. The dropouts are usually an issue with the driver being unable to feed samples fast enough. That's almost always because your ASIO driver is contending with other drivers for interrupt time. That happens well under the application layer, down in the kernel of the OS. The advice given about disabling devices you aren't using is very good. Also, take a look at your on-board sound devices (if any) are enabled, and if so, disable them, ideally at the BIOS level. Also, it seems like every software company and his brother has an update service installed these days, hammering on the network looking for updates. Turn those off, along with services like the search and indexing services, plus any others you don't need. There's a list somewhere of services you don't need while you're DAWing away. I saw somewhere that someone created a batch script to turn unneeded services on and off to make things simple. That kind of approach makes things pretty easy.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 19, 16 6:12 AM
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☄ Helpfulby thepianist53 June 19, 16 10:42 AM
Hi kevinwal - that rumor of a batch utility to turn services and/or start items on or off may be referring to something I initially wrote in C# for use on machines when I was running Sonar on XP Pro for a 32-bit computer. That utility worked well under XP and all the way into Windows 8.1, but to be honest, I have not needed to use it for several years now (though it does still work). The reason I have not been using it is because once I moved to a 64-bit environment, with computers that are running 32 GB of memory, and split programs/samples/content across multiple disk drives, my performance was quite adequate, and I just quit bothering to do most tweaks altogether. There are a couple of things that I believe the original poster would benefit from understanding. 1. With 64 GB of memory, I would quit worrying about memory usage altogether. You have WAY more memory than needed for any project I would ever have running through Sonar with that setup on MY computer. 32 GB is PLENTY for everything I do. Having the extra memory is wonderful, but if memory is not the performance issue for you, (which I don't believe it is for you), then I would just quit worrying about it. Sonar can load all it needs to into the memory you have, and will stream samples as needed from disk, and read/write projects as needed. 2. For the REST OF TIME, you will have two basic modes of operation: Recording/Editing - and Mixing/Mastering. The processing needs ARE different when you are Recording or Editing, versus Mixing or Mastering. You will need to adjust your ASIO Buffer Size to something small enough to support low latency recording/editing, and then when ready to move on to Mixing/Mastering you will need to adjust your ASIO Buffer Size to something WAY bigger, which will give you lots more latency, but at the same time will give you the proper buffer sizes for running plugins that induce lots of latency - such as convoluted reverb plugins. ANYTIME you move between Recording/Editing and Mixing/Mastering, you will need to set the ASIO Buffer Size accordingly - small for tracking/editing, and huge for mixing/mastering. It would seem to me that if you approach projects a bit differently, you will find that your current computer has WAY plenty of horsepower to create incredibly complex and beautiful projects, but you need to adjust your approach to that of always keeping your latency LOW for recording and HIGH for mixing/mastering. When recording/editing: 1) Get your latency low, through a combination of a small ASIO Buffer Size, a reasonable Sample Rate, and simpler plugins. I use an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 (could go down to 32, but 128 is easy and I find the latency is fine for me - I think my total roundtrip latency runs around 10 ms. 2) Don't do your initial recording with a whole bunch of plugins that add lots of latency. Be aware that each plugin will add some, and that's OK to a point, but some plugins are simply NOT intended to be used during recording. These plugin types would usually be those that use something called 'Look-Ahead Processing' or otherwise chew up lots of CPU, and would typically be things like convoluted reverb plugins. Remember, your MIX will be where you sculpt your sounds with your plugins, other than some basic (and latency-lean) plugins to have perhaps some sort of delay/reverb that does NOT use the look-ahead processing. SO, when choosing which plugins to use during recording, look for those that will help you get your signal recorded, but that don't jack up latency to do that. Use a simpler reverb until you finish recording, and then you can swap that out for the fancier one that adds tons of latency once you move into the mixing/mastering phase of any given project. When DONE with recording and editing, and ready to move to mixing/mastering: 1) Adjust your ASIO Buffer Size to 1024 or 2048 - big is FINE, because you won't be trying to record at this point in your project, you don't care if it takes a half-second before playback starts. Having the huge ASIO Buffer Size for mixing/mastering gives lots of room for the more robust plugins to be used. 2) THIS is the point where you can swap out some of those low-latency but more basic plugins you used during recording, for the really powerful convoluted reverb plugs that DO add lots of latency. Again, you are not trying to RECORD tracks during mixing, so who cares if your latency is 40-50 milliseconds or higher. It is a non-issue for mixing to have high latency. I would steer far away from ASIO4ALL if at all possible, and use a dedicated audio interface that has drivers that are SUPPORTED for the level of the operating system you are running Sonar on. ASIO4ALL is really a program that basically acts as a wrapper - making programs THINK they are using ASIO drivers, but really underneath the covers, ASIO4ALL is using your CPU to do all the data conversions needed, and this is FREQUENTLY not going to give you smooth streaming audio, such as what is needed for recording in Sonar. Some folks have reported issues simply having ASIO4ALL installed, even though they are using the ASIO drivers for their audio interface. IF your audio interface does NOT have drivers for Windows 10, then as was posted earlier by someone else, either roll back your Windows to Windows 7 or 8.1, OR go buy a new audio interface that DOES have ASIO drivers that work with Windows 10. I sincerely hope the above makes some sense - it IS 5:00 in the morning here, and I have NO idea why my eyes are even open at this point, since I have to get up in 2 hours and have not slept yet. Please feel free to ask some questions, if you want me to take another stab at explaining any of the above. I FIRMLY believe that if you match your dedicated audio interface to a version of Windows that interface has supported drivers for, AND you adopt an approach of Low Latency when recording/editing, and High Latency when Mixing/Mastering, you should have an AMAZING capability on your computer to do some huge projects without performance issues. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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chuckebaby
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 19, 16 11:10 AM
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im guessing along with your audiocard drivers, check the plug ins, open in safe mode and try your tests, test memory, test cpu, exc. also I believe unless all tracks are bounced to clips, all those clips remain in memory. so dragging and pasting a 1 beat section 10 times is almost like adding the whole wave file 10 more times. bounce to clips, clean the audio folder.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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mettelus
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 19, 16 11:24 AM
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From a practical perspective, Kevin's approach is one to "become one" with. For tracks you have not adjusted to any extent, you can also bounce to track(s) which will bake in FX, then archive the original. This will make that new track a "simple audio stream" to the CPU, but be sure to archive the original - this removes it from CPU overhead and allows you to go back to it later (if needed). Do not be afraid to commit plugins and only leave ones necessary for final mixing.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 19, 16 3:51 PM
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mettelus Do not be afraid to commit plugins and only leave ones necessary for final mixing.
great point.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 23, 16 5:18 AM
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hi all! first of all i would like to thank everyone for the feedback and suggestions. then i would like to mention that initially i was curious rather about RAM and CPU usage than drop out causes. so as it looks right now large memory usage is not a bug but is a feature. also it looks the same for audio engine running all the time no matter what you do in Sonar. while i now understand that it is "as designed", i would anyway like to have ability to not run Audio engine forever and to run it only when i press Play button (btw, playing with "Alays Sream Audio Through FX" option didn't help in any way).
so now the only unclear thing for me is why opening project takes that much of time. is there any way to speed it up?
current update: * uninstalled ASIO4ALL * set 512 samples of latency on sound card's Asio panel * updated to 2016.06
what i can tell is that with 2016.06 update playing starts much faster (without large delay) and overall work seem to run more smooth so i'm quite happy with that.
so as i said before now the only thing that i do not like is time that Sonar takes to load projects
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scook
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 23, 16 8:18 AM
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biozel i would anyway like to have ability to not run Audio engine forever and to run it only when i press Play button
It is possible to turn the engine off whenever desired in the transport module. The button is L in the image below  It is also possible to create a keyboard shortcut to toggle the audio engine. To speed up load time, reduce the number of plug-ins in the project. Use the QCEQ when possible. The Pro-Q2 is a nice EQ but not always necessary. Freezing tracks is another way to reduce plug-in count.
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 23, 16 8:30 AM
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scook It is possible to turn the engine off whenever desired in the transport module. The button is L in the image below It is also possible to create a keyboard shortcut to toggle the audio engine.
yes but most likely i will forget to do it just each time i stop transport scook To speed up load time, reduce the number of plug-ins in the project.
this is general workaround but it won't work as a solution. i have project (not the finished one i initially wrote about) that has no plugin in FX bin and it also is loaded slow (30 sec and more). btw, interesting thing is that when loading project Sonar does not use much CPU - just 2-5% Use the QCEQ when possible. The Pro-Q2 is a nice EQ but not always necessary.
lets say i won't use QCEQ just for fast loading purpose :) Freezing tracks is another way to reduce plug-in count.
True, but again - freezing tracks just for fast loading is wrong approach on my opinion
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scook
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 23, 16 8:40 AM
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biozel i have project (not the finished one i initially wrote about) that has no plugin in FX bin and it also is loaded slow (30 sec and more). btw, interesting thing is that when loading project Sonar does not use much CPU - just 2-5%
All audio, no MIDI? How many tracks? Is a virus scanner enabled on the PC? What else is running while SONAR is loading?
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 23, 16 9:30 AM
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scook All audio, no MIDI? How many tracks? Is a virus scanner enabled on the PC? What else is running while SONAR is loading?
will answer later today. in general project consists of audio tracks, synth tracks and couple Kontakt tracks
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dcumpian
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 23, 16 10:33 AM
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biozel
scook All audio, no MIDI? How many tracks? Is a virus scanner enabled on the PC? What else is running while SONAR is loading?
will answer later today. in general project consists of audio tracks, synth tracks and couple Kontakt tracks
The delay is likely in the loading of the synths and samples for Kontakt. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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JonD
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
June 23, 16 10:43 AM
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To the OP... This type of back and forth with the forum *might* result in fixing your problems, but it will take a lot of time, and trial and error on everyone's parts. For the non-techie, especially, this could easily take days or weeks -- and that assumes you stay doggedly with it. Even then, there's no guarantee you will eventually get there. It would be A LOT easier if someone with DAW setup/ PC knowledge could just sit down at your system and go through all of your settings. To that end, I strongly suggest you contact Jim Roseberry (DAW builder and tech consultant), buy some consulting time, and have Jim dial in remotely and check/tweak your settings. Time is money they say. How much is your time worth?
SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 01, 16 1:00 AM
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hi everyone! some update on performance: * installed new driver for sound card (TC Electronic Konnekt 6). its a release candidate for win10 now * with playing latency settings it now seems to be that no dropouts occur (at least so noticable as before) however now one of projects is always failed to load: * Sonar hangs when opening the project * memory is allocated (3+ GB) * CPU is still used (19-20%) but nothing happens :( I've tried to open it in safe mode. the result is pretty much the same, only memory usage is very small and CPU usage us up to 8% instead. what can be done here? how to fix/repair project?
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 01, 16 1:13 AM
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*the sonar hangs somewhere after "opening the project" status line in the UI is shown and then hidden
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Beagle
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 01, 16 9:49 AM
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☼ Best Answerby biozel August 01, 16 11:34 AM
biozel hi everyone! some update on performance: * installed new driver for sound card (TC Electronic Konnekt 6). its a release candidate for win10 now * with playing latency settings it now seems to be that no dropouts occur (at least so noticable as before) however now one of projects is always failed to load: * Sonar hangs when opening the project * memory is allocated (3+ GB) * CPU is still used (19-20%) but nothing happens :( I've tried to open it in safe mode. the result is pretty much the same, only memory usage is very small and CPU usage us up to 8% instead. what can be done here? how to fix/repair project?
after you opened in safe mode, did you remove any of the plugins? the main reason safe mode exists is to be able to open the project with minimal resource usage and this enables you to "find the culprit" which is causing the problem. most of the time there will be a third party plugin (either VST or VSTi) which is causing the "hang up" try opening in safe mode, deleting a softsynth or a plugin (I'd definitely start with non-sonar or non-included plugins), save it under a different name, open it in regular mode and see if it still hangs up. if it does, try another one and continue the process until you determine which one is causing your problem.
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 01, 16 11:36 AM
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Beagle after you opened in safe mode, did you remove any of the plugins? the main reason safe mode exists is to be able to open the project with minimal resource usage and this enables you to "find the culprit" which is causing the problem. most of the time there will be a third party plugin (either VST or VSTi) which is causing the "hang up" try opening in safe mode, deleting a softsynth or a plugin (I'd definitely start with non-sonar or non-included plugins), save it under a different name, open it in regular mode and see if it still hangs up. if it does, try another one and continue the process until you determine which one is causing your problem.
the problem is that Sonar hangs before showing project window. so i have no possibility to turn off or remove something. when opening project in Safe mode it asks to disable plugins (either one by one, or all, i tried both ways). after that it hangs just as in usual mode.
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Beagle
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 01, 16 12:08 AM
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biozel
Beagle after you opened in safe mode, did you remove any of the plugins? the main reason safe mode exists is to be able to open the project with minimal resource usage and this enables you to "find the culprit" which is causing the problem. most of the time there will be a third party plugin (either VST or VSTi) which is causing the "hang up" try opening in safe mode, deleting a softsynth or a plugin (I'd definitely start with non-sonar or non-included plugins), save it under a different name, open it in regular mode and see if it still hangs up. if it does, try another one and continue the process until you determine which one is causing your problem.
the problem is that Sonar hangs before showing project window. so i have no possibility to turn off or remove something.
did it do this before you installed the "beta release" drivers for the Konnekt 6? if not, uninstall them. it's likely causing the issue. when opening project in Safe mode it asks to disable plugins (either one by one, or all, i tried both ways). after that it hangs just as in usual mode.
even if you disable all of them?
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 01, 16 4:03 PM
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Beagle did it do this before you installed the "beta release" drivers for the Konnekt 6? if not, uninstall them. it's likely causing the issue.
this also does not help. the behavior is the same :-( Beagle even if you disable all of them?
yes.
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JayCee99
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 01, 16 4:18 PM
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I would suggest you try to troubleshoot in a more methodical manner and in a more controlled environment. For example, start up your computer and disable pretty much everything (printer drivers, wireless internet drivers, etc). Open Sonar and start a new project using some simple .wav files. Then you will be more able to see if something is causing a spike in cpu usage. In your original example, I think you have too many variables for troubleshooting. Also, the fact that you are using ASIO4All and that there's no Windows 10 driver for your soundcard yet is highly suggestive that it's a driver / hardware issue. Also, in your original post, it's unclear what your baseline CPU usage is before Sonar is open? Maybe there's another program that's taking a lot of CPU power that's not related to SONAR.
Sonar Platinum Audio Interface: Focusrite 18i8 ASIO Interface Keys: Korg Kronos 88, Alesis VI25 Windows 8.1 x64 Laptop, 8GB RAM, i7 CPU
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JayCee99
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 01, 16 4:23 PM
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biozel CONCLUSION: when not hitting Play button even once i have Sonar taking 60% of CPU (this number varies of cause) for the project and lots of dropouts (while i made items 1-14 i had about 30 dropouts). i believe this is not normal. ----------------------- OTHER ISSUES ------------------------------------ * when turning on/off plugins in Console view audio dropouts occur from time to time. note that i'm talking about situation when nothing is played - i'm just enabling/disabling plugins. interesting thing: when dropout occurs the CPU usage goes down to 1-2% or so. in other words it becomes as expected one more interesting thing: if after drop out you switch to some other application and then back to Sonar, CPU usage starts increasing again and in couple of seconds come to the state that was before drop out * audio dropouts also occur when not playing but doing some trivial actions: saving project, scrolling console view
Also I'm not clear what you mean by "dropouts" above. Can you be more specific about what these "dropouts" are? Typically it would mean that either the audio is glitching when you're running playback, or that you're trying to play an instrument in real-time and it's glitching. But above you say that as you go through each step, you get dropouts without the transport running, which I'm not understanding.
Sonar Platinum Audio Interface: Focusrite 18i8 ASIO Interface Keys: Korg Kronos 88, Alesis VI25 Windows 8.1 x64 Laptop, 8GB RAM, i7 CPU
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 02, 16 6:54 AM
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rlared I would suggest you try to troubleshoot in a more methodical manner and in a more controlled environment. For example, start up your computer and disable pretty much everything (printer drivers, wireless internet drivers, etc). Open Sonar and start a new project using some simple .wav files. Then you will be more able to see if something is causing a spike in cpu usage. In your original example, I think you have too many variables for troubleshooting. Also, the fact that you are using ASIO4All and that there's no Windows 10 driver for your soundcard yet is highly suggestive that it's a driver / hardware issue. Also, in your original post, it's unclear what your baseline CPU usage is before Sonar is open? Maybe there's another program that's taking a lot of CPU power that's not related to SONAR.
i don't use asio4all. as for project opening problem, the problem is that only one project is not open (Sonar goes to some kind of infinite loop always doing something but never finished). other projects can be successfully opened both in usual and safe modes. i will try to run Sonar while disabling everything like wi-fi today. however i don't think that problem is in windows.
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biozel
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Re: Sonar 2016.05: still have significant performance issues [detailed report]
August 02, 16 6:55 AM
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rlared
biozel CONCLUSION: when not hitting Play button even once i have Sonar taking 60% of CPU (this number varies of cause) for the project and lots of dropouts (while i made items 1-14 i had about 30 dropouts). i believe this is not normal. ----------------------- OTHER ISSUES ------------------------------------ * when turning on/off plugins in Console view audio dropouts occur from time to time. note that i'm talking about situation when nothing is played - i'm just enabling/disabling plugins. interesting thing: when dropout occurs the CPU usage goes down to 1-2% or so. in other words it becomes as expected one more interesting thing: if after drop out you switch to some other application and then back to Sonar, CPU usage starts increasing again and in couple of seconds come to the state that was before drop out * audio dropouts also occur when not playing but doing some trivial actions: saving project, scrolling console view
Also I'm not clear what you mean by "dropouts" above. Can you be more specific about what these "dropouts" are? Typically it would mean that either the audio is glitching when you're running playback, or that you're trying to play an instrument in real-time and it's glitching. But above you say that as you go through each step, you get dropouts without the transport running, which I'm not understanding.
well, dropouts are situation when Sonar shows popup message about audio engine dropout
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