AnsweredDo we OWN our project files?

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azslow3
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/01/24 18:28:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby foldaway 2018/01/25 00:45:34
Update.
After clearing routing (including DrumMaps, Sidechaining and PatchPoints), I have decided that parsing "R&N" is finished.
 
With the following conclusions:
1. CWP files are definitively parsable, down to needed for information extraction level, in Sonar version universal way (at least X2-Platinum).
2. Parsing can be done not only theoretically, but also practically. To achieve that, the only required tool was a HEX viewer and the only type of files opened in it was CWP. At no time Sonar nor any part of delivered with it bundle was used the way forbidden by EULA, Sonar and plug-ins was used usual way to produce test projects (CWP) files only.
3. I have not observed any binary sequence in CWP files which can be interpreted as "encrypted content", so parsing has no "decryption" components.
4. I have not observed any not widely known approaches of saving information into binary form. In particular, I have observed: integer and floating point numbers in standard binary representations, strings in multibyte and wide character encodings and structures build from them (lists, maps, arrays, pointers, unions, keyed objects, trees).
5. I have not analyzed the information which is not directly related to user driven operations, so I extract the information for which the user has full rights.
 
In short... CWP files are like XML files but in binary form. Nothing cryptic, nothing unusual (I mean relevant parts).
 
The parser is nice, but absolutely useless at the moment
The next step is code cleanup and starting to print collected information into RPP (text) files.
 
In case someone (including CW/Gibson) still has a good(!) argument against conversion, that is the last chance to prevent it...

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#91
abacab
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/01/24 19:03:28 (permalink)
Has anybody taken a look at 'Project Scope' by forum user 'czyky'?
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/ProjectScope-for-Sonar-Project-Files-CWPs-updated-to-support-new-Sonar-project-features-m3584169.aspx
 
Without opening Sonar, this tool shows the contents of any CWP on your system, in terms of audio files, plugins, etc.  You can even preview the associated wav files with an integrated player! 

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#92
azslow3
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/01/24 19:45:03 (permalink)
As you can find early in this thread, the whole story was inspired by this tool

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
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#93
foldaway
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/01/26 00:28:35 (permalink)
@azslow3

Thank you for the update, really excited (& impressed!) by the progress so far. Also, great to know that earlier versions of Sonar .cwp files will also be convertable, as I can't trust Platinum in converting older tracks!
 
I'm delighted at the prospect that I might not have to recreate from scratch all the music I've written in Sonar & I'm quite certain that given time, many others will be too!

& finally a quick thank you to CW/Gibson, your silence never sounded so sweet!




post edited by foldaway - 2018/01/29 19:53:15
#94
Sir Les
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/01/27 02:12:20 (permalink)
jamesg1213
Well, all that makes sense.
 





 
Glad you read between the lines also...of my muse....But agreements of eula agreements...users paid to use, is another grey area if they cannot trust it to work efficiently..and is unstable, creates a grey area until solved, and user uses...as said it works with: third party standards of Driver ASIO, and or other MS standards to a high degree of stability,,,,if not forth coming as said works with...Time is given to correct error in or upon such statements.
 
As buying  a Box, No agreement is upon the outside of the box to read, and if opened is non returnable...the said words on the outside of the box, which says lots of things...to bait the eye, mind and reasoning to buy, as sold terms being presented to be working on said level of machine, before buying, or higher grade machine, and OS of MS to a version put forth..works with... and should be RND'd to make sure before put to market with such claims.
 
Once bought into those claims, and things said to continue to claim bug fixes since conception is also noted as being found and fixed, some of...the product was premature in it launch, and still has issues left, plus new ones seeming to be developed by the OS it is supposed to work upon as stated.
 
licence to use..."Principle"= How can a licence agreement paid user, use what does not work proper , to make what should be perfectly done properly as music, if it crashes and hangs continually, and crackle and pops and other noise is rendered onto the audio device by the OS interfering with cpu cycles and or irq interuption causing such havoc?....user is using to gain improper music, or no real professional claimed product using in that state?( what is Pro, and what does it mean Pro, and or the definition)=grey area.
 
Working close with MS CW claimed also, to develop better relationships towards a finer tuned engine code, in alliance, might end the bug issues....But MS, and third parties like the cash cow premise, so as to keep the buy and sell,money flowing in all tech fields, including updates...to cost more to gain in charging for, and making the needs be with....cash cow markets to continue to pay to use, or get to use...bugs are put to not use, and cause a need for techs to fix continually....MS help tech now cost to make money...end evaluation as witnessed since conception has show a trend towards doing constantly by noting version levels from Dos until win 10 home, pro, and perhaps other versions still in the works to update to~ hardware,drivers and other code as third parties..firmware and or apps to help find root causes for issues that should not be manifesting, but are...also sold, or to gain a circle of no use of user licence, because it has not been stable at all to trust..or agree totally it is all working as claimed.
 
 
So, if disbanding...the entities agreed cannot disband because of no cash flow or market shares end or loss there of....as the user paid to use, and or to gain a proper as claimed working copy of paid for updates for life.
 
even if they loose capital to do it....it is agreement signed or not signed that is upheld, and user is signed or not..as agreed.
 
So if one has a life time agreement with a licence user, which did not come to be....It has to first come to be as a user, and as promised fixes for...which was claimed, is sold as a licence to use!...if you sell the licence to get another program, you will not get that same agreement, and let the parties go free of any recourse or promises made in any agreement....they made to be honouring by saying or leading into agreements for capital.
 
 
If by spelling mistakes, some see it fit to not read into any contract because it is laiden with error, or is unintelligent or unreadable, or cannot be read...you paid for such a product with CW.sonar in agreement bot to try to deconstruct or decode the word of binary code to see into those words or errors that may be or not be there in.
 
 
Not sure why people say, one needs patience to read words freely given, with the right attitude...legal is a liars strong hold...to con the ones who do not know...Plus bound by agreement not to read into, unless you pay...and lawyer babble is ..pages or more sometimes to read into...by page 30.2 sub sect 5,7...you have to reread from clause 16.6.0 sect 9, and not withstanding...over rules the right to read anything proper or put there of proper to read...you then need a lawyer to read the words of lawyers...which could be in EU a Banister...slippery slope, in other terms!
 
 
just to make sure you pay moe money...you loose if you sell that licence, you loose if it does not work as claimed, and you loose if you wait on them promising the moon and stars to fix for life....
 
either way the shamoo is not on them....if you cannot read the code, or fix for life any bugs agreed to have done....it still adds up to con if it still has bugs, and will have if MS updates continually, and cripples older & new  version of OSes to glean moe money off of!....lol well worth the price of admission...?.what a ride to nowhere eh, and the cost put lost....If I own them all...why sell my licence to what I already have?..lol....now the funny thing...while selling their licences, they still pay more to do...the selling of...more bugs!....interesting people doing odd things eh?...and some bash me, because they have no patience?...or no intelligence?...or no more money?....back to work you go...slave!
 
Prince put it on his cheek,,,songs about elevator (Satan) made the news of dead things found there in of his flesh...trying to unbind his property from, labels and terms of lawyers con tracts robbery...drug induced by the good doctors...so he felt no pain in his ending...Did he give it to sell,and buy, or be free from it taking away any rights but his own shared or trying to reduce cost more so , so all could see and hear, and even read between the lines?..a good story told three times!..
 
cheers
post edited by Sir Les - 2018/01/27 02:57:12

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#95
azslow3
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/02/13 22:07:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/02/14 01:40:38
Who was skeptical about the possibility to convert CWP, can check the first public alpha.
For those who have no Reaper, it is possible to demo full version 60 days, the download is 11MB only and support "portable" installation (nothing will be changed in Windows registry nor any other place outside installation folder, except pike files for visited audio, the last can be avoided by special preference setting described in my installation sequence). Under 100kB, not locked, not time limited, not calling home converter create zero new files, the output is streamed into Reaper directly.
Alpha tests have shown that converter has no problems with CWPs created by Sonar 7 - Sonar Platinum 2017.
 
And you can continue to use Sonar without bad feeling about a chance to loose your projects in case it no longer works.
 

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#96
Just Another Bloke
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/02/14 00:21:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/02/14 01:40:31
ONE CAVEAT: You better be prepared to think like a Super Reaper user+. What Alexy has done is brilliant but do not expect the project to look like SONAR (in the mixer*). You can however reasonably expect (as of today) most of the VERY pertinent translations to have occurred where the resulting Reaper project "mostly" sounds like it did in SONAR. 
 
He has further to go but I can say without hesitation that what he has so far is a workable solution if you need to move over W-I-P projects that are prone to changes anyway.
 
I've been extensively testing a 50+ track audio only but a shizzload of plugs (VST2 and VST3) and as of toady the fader, pan routing and even clip fades translated over very nicely. The project mostly sounds like it did it SONAR.
 
I also tested some rudimentary MIDI projects and they seemed to be doing the right thing too.
 
*Buses are actually tracks that look like and act like folders but in Reaper's world a track can be anything. And in this case Alexy has made a SONAR bus into a folder that is both a folder (can expand/collaps) and a bus with all of it's processing. So rather than seeing tracks separated from buses what Alexy has done is this: tracks are nested in a folder/bus with the bus processing in tact. There is so much more to this but I thought I would at least give this heads up.
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williamcopper
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/02/19 02:10:19 (permalink)
Interesting thread.   From some of my earlier days as a programmer I'd agree the project should not be anywhere near impossible, not that you need the support from what it appears.   I did a fair amount of parsing of binary data in proprietary formats (legally ..) in the past, and nearly anything can be organized and re-organized, traced and re-traced.  
 
Just in case of further ambition: I've always said that CAL was the only reason I stayed with Sonar; no other program as far as I know has tools that can manipulate midi data in as fast and powerful a way as the simple programs one can make with CAL.  
 
So .... hint hint ...
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abacab
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/02/19 18:58:52 (permalink)
williamcopper
 
Just in case of further ambition: I've always said that CAL was the only reason I stayed with Sonar; no other program as far as I know has tools that can manipulate midi data in as fast and powerful a way as the simple programs one can make with CAL.  
 
So .... hint hint ...




Have you seen this? 
 
https://www.reaper.fm/sdk/reascript/reascript.php
 
ReaScript is a feature that allows you to edit, run and debug scripts within REAPER. Scripts are simple text files from which you can call any REAPER action, and also call back into most of the REAPER API functions (the same API used by compiled REAPER plug-ins and extensions). ReaScript can be used to create anything from advanced macros to full-featured REAPER extensions.


DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#99
daveny5
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Re: Do we OWN our project files? 2018/02/19 19:25:27 (permalink)
Michael: Sure you can export any MIDI track as a standard MIDI file, but the CWP file contains a lot more info than just the MIDI data. It's better than nothing though. 
 
Musikman: Try exporting the audio as a broadcast wav file. I seem to recall that captures the position of the audio information. 

Dave
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