∞

I both agree and disagree with Craig’s “anyone who”comment. In theory one could make any genre using any DAW. However, some DAWs are going to be exponentially more frustrating to the point of “why bother?”

dj squarewave

Anderton
Anyone who...

 
May one infer that whining about "anyone" you don't see eye to eye with is more helpful than whining about a DAW?
 
LOL.

I differentiate between people who whine and people who make constructive criticisms that move things forward. For example, your post #50 wasn't whining. It was analysis that may or may not end up being right, but either way, advanced the conversation.
 
But as dubdisciple pointed out, "...users who are annoyed that you cannot export patterns to piano roll." There's been all this complaining about a problem that doesn't exist. I don't see how that helps anyone. In fact, it moves things backward because now people won't take advantage of something that could be helpful because they don't think it exists.
 
For example, think of the hundreds of man-hours that have been spent complaining about Ableton Live not supporting VST3...thread after thread after thread in multiple forums, stretching back years. "Oh, I can't possibly make music because I must use this VST3 plug-in so I guess I'll have to change DAWs." So spend $49 on DDMF's Metaplugin, load it as a VST 2.4, and load VST3 plug-ins into it. Problem solved.
 
If those people had remembered their priority is to make music, I would like to think they would have stopped complaining, prioritized making music, found the solution, and realized that spending $49 is a hell of a lot less expensive and disruptive than switching DAWs. 
 
As to "In theory one could make any genre using any DAW. However, some DAWs are going to be exponentially more frustrating to the point of 'why bother?'," the reason why there isn't just one DAW is because each one has strengths and weaknesses. But they also all have demos, so if someone picks one that's exponentially frustrating to them, I don't think you can blame the DAW but the choice the user made. I would never use Sonar to do a loop-based live performance, but I didn't complain about it. Instead, I learned Live. People complain that Studio One doesn't do surround; it never has and I doubt it ever will. So what? Download CbB for free, export your stems, and mix in surround (with an excellent surround implementation...not that more than a handful of people ever used it). Or, spend your time complaining that SO4 doesn't do surround. I have definite opinions as to which will further the music-making process.
 
To me, people who complain are wasting time that could have been spent coming up with a solution, a workaround, or making music with the tools they have. People who do constructive criticism...well, they're the people directly responsible for a lot of the improvements that have happened in DAWs over the years. In forums, AFAIK they are the signal; the whiners are the noise. A good signal-to-noise ratio fosters a better environment for debating the pros and cons of actual improvements, because there's no way everyone's pet FR is going to be implemented.

kitekrazy1
Interesting take
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2018/5/26/our-response-to-new-product-releases-often-says-more-about-us?mc_cid=6966084e4c&mc_eid=827b1cbfa7
 
As for Live it's far from upgrade friendly price wise.
As for the years of constructive criticism regarding Sonar's staff view that somehow didn't work.

Good article. Thanks for sharing.

That's why they also lost ground to Cubase.

I admit I was one of those people. But in my defense, I brought up the idea of funding for staff view.
It still can be done in CbB model. Core free and add-ons we pay for. You can argue that Staff view should be considered part of the program but I think we are past that part. If we want a functioning Staff view we will have to pay for it. Funny Cakewalk Sonar users have paid $50.00 for a mug but will bicker paying for something we have asked for, for a decade or more.
my 2¢ worth.

InstrEd
I admit I was one of those people. But in my defense, I brought up the idea of funding for staff view.
It still can be done in CbB model. Core free and add-ons we pay for. You can argue that Staff view should be considered part of the program but I think we are past that part. If we want a functioning Staff view we will have to pay for it. Funny Cakewalk Sonar users have paid $50.00 for a mug but will bicker paying for something we have asked for, for a decade or more.
my 2¢ worth.

I think you unintentionally bring up a good point; that being that sometimes it is less risky for a company to sell an ad on of a known entity than introduce a new product. Studio one chose an add on rather than core functionality integration. Unfortunately this method was riskier for sonar in its former incarnation because customers would feel like they were getting charged for something they already were given a broken version of for free. P

Hey Jeff, you got my hopes up, but then that video is showing what I was trying to say. I spend 95% of my time in here from my phone, so might not have clarified well (but that video does).
 
By "sync" (current functionality in SONAR/CbB), I mean that an edit in the Piano Roll View or Staff View will mirror itself in the other automatically. Maybe "auto-sync" would have been a better choice of words, and this is what most SONAR/CbB users are "expecting" to see upgraded in my assumption. For Studio One/Notion, this sync is a manual handoff of data, but as that video shows, it will also pass VST information with presets (also shown in that video). Unless I have missed something, an edit in one is not mirrored in the other automatically.
 
That said, Notion 6 unto itself is actually a standalone DAW, and a pretty capable one. Being able to load VSTis, compose with them, and pass that information into Studio One with the VSTis intact is incredibly powerful. Notion is a very lightweight application (though the sample library is several GB), so it is the only app I loaded on a laptop I bought last Christmas. I thoroughly detest laptops for certain things, and agonized over buying one, but ended up getting a Lenovo Flex 5 15.6" for its tablet conversion, screen resolution, and screen size because of this video (Notion 4 and Strokes+ on  Microsoft Surface Pro). That video shows the "on the fly composition" capability of Notion well; and when finished, can then pass the song to Studio One.

Jeff Evans
Notion is $200 AU dollars here so I might wait as well for the right time. 

 
Notion crossgrade from Studio One Pro was a deal back in February for $49USD but is not currently available.  I ended up getting it for $32.47USD with an extra discount.  Total no-brainer! 
 
They have an on-going crossgrade deal from Finale, Sibelius, Overture, etc, for $79USD.
 

I have also invested in the Presonus Symphonic Orchestra for Presence XT and it too is an excellent add on.

Good to know!

kitekrazy1
Interesting take
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2018/5/26/our-response-to-new-product-releases-often-says-more-about-us?mc_cid=6966084e4c&mc_eid=827b1cbfa7
 

Amen on the article.