Blogman
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Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
Anyone know a way to un-bypass the pro-channel once a synth has been frozen. Normally I lay down all of my virtual synths freezing as I go, then come back and mix everything. On frozen synths I'll unbypass the fx bins then plug in what I need. I would like to do this with pro-channel as I don' t want to have to re-load all of the samples just to tweak the EQ/COMP in the pro-channel. I also don't want to make a whole new audio track just to use PC on a frozen synth. 100 tracks add up when doubled....
Any ideas?
Thanks
Blogman
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/01 17:41:00
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Can you just set the Pro Channel to "post"?
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Loptec
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/01 18:16:21
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Don't know if it's possible to unfreeze just the pro-channel. That was one of the things that came with the X1b update: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013233 ______________________________________________________ ProChannel Freezes with Track (Producer only)
When freezing a track the ProChannel will now freeze as well. In order to reflect this, the ProChannel will become grayed-out. When the track is un-frozen the ProChannel will be re-enabled. ______________________________________________________ If you still want to use the pro-channel on a frozen synth you can create a stereo bus, output the synth to this and then use the bus's pro-channel instead.
post edited by Loptec - 2011/04/01 18:18:55
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/01 18:28:01
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Yuck.
Another really good bad idea.
I rarely freeze because I find it is easier to simply bounce... now it's even easier.
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bitflipper
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/01 18:56:03
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I'm guessing ProChannel, being an integrated feature rather than a normal effect insert, cannot be excluded from the freeze like you can do with other effects. Just a guess, as I am not an X1 user.
The obvious solution: don't use ProChannel. There are plenty of substitutes if it's not working for you.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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dke
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/01 20:21:47
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Yeah I can't understand the reasoning behind freezing the Pro Channel with the track and no option not too.
Dan
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 06:46:44
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That's a bummer if it's true.
So does this mean if you want to use the Pro Channel in your final mix, then none of your synths can be frozen down prior to starting your mix?
That sounds preposterous. What happens if you disengage PC before freezing - can you apply it AFTER bouncing?
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Stone House Studios
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 07:52:44
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This is kind of funny - there were previous complaints because ProChannel didn't freeze along with the track - therefore continuing to affect when it was thought to be frozen!
Brian
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 08:37:29
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That goes to show you...
Good leadership would have reviewed all the requests, taken them in to account and simply frozen the track AND turned ProChannel off. (and fixed the bug where ProChannel was turning on and off whimsically and all by itself).
This is the obvious choice that offers the most flexibility and presents the least number of gotchas to anyone who decides to make a further adjustment.
Bummer.
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codamedia
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 09:05:21
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Good leadership would have reviewed all the requests, taken them in to account ...
Kind of hard to do, when the only people making requests were the ones wanting it changed. All they heard was the moaning and complaining that Pro Channel wasn't freezing. They couldn't hear the silence of the people that liked it the way it was. I am not going to blame "poor leadership" on this choice. They simply reacted to the complaints. Don't get me wrong, I'm with you Mike, and agree there should be more options! I think they were pressured with time constraints and had to react quickly. We see it as a bad decision because were on the wrong side of that choice. I'm sure everyone that requested this feature is quite happy with the decision and the "leadership". Goes to show when you try to build something everyone will like - nobody is going to like it!
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
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Rski
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 09:19:59
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Leave the frozen synth track as is, send that track to a bus, then pro channel can be used on that bus you assigned
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Stone House Studios
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 10:03:24
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Blogman
Anyone know a way to un-bypass the pro-channel once a synth has been frozen. Normally I lay down all of my virtual synths freezing as I go, then come back and mix everything. On frozen synths I'll unbypass the fx bins then plug in what I need. I would like to do this with pro-channel as I don' t want to have to re-load all of the samples just to tweak the EQ/COMP in the pro-channel. I also don't want to make a whole new audio track just to use PC on a frozen synth. 100 tracks add up when doubled....
Any ideas?
Thanks
Blogman
I haven't checked for PC's status on this, but it seems Mike's idea of bouncing instead of freezing is your best choice - especially if you are not planning to tweak the synth performance. I think the idea of a freeze (my thoughts) is that you have the opportunity to unfreeze, so logically, is not necessarily used for a for a final bounce, although it can be. So in a way, freezing PC settings along with it kind of makes sense, otherwise, you are back to processing through PC twice - once on the freeze, the other after you unfreeze only PC. Personally, unless bussing, bouncing without PC then turning PC on looks like the better option. (Maybe?)  Brian
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dke
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 14:34:03
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Stone House Studios
This is kind of funny - there were previous complaints because ProChannel didn't freeze along with the track - therefore continuing to affect when it was thought to be frozen!
Brian
I don't recall seeing anyone complain about the ProChannel not being included with a freeze, not saying somebody didn't. At any rate IMO it should have been an option, it wouldn't have taken them any longer to add the option to be included with a track freeze rather than making it the only option. Dan
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UnderTow
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 14:58:59
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dke
Yeah I can't understand the reasoning behind freezing the Pro Channel with the track and no option not too.
+1 When in doubt, make it an option. UnderTow
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Loptec
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 15:02:33
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UnderTow
dke
Yeah I can't understand the reasoning behind freezing the Pro Channel with the track and no option not too.
+1
When in doubt, make it an option.
UnderTow
+1 I agree.
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
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subtlearts
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 15:29:27
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While Mike's description is probably the 'right' behaviour - and therefore a great idea for a FR - in the meantime you have a couple of workarounds: bouncing or routing to another bus, as already suggested, or my preferred: shift-drag the frozen audio to a new track, then you can do what you like with it (the shift is to keep it aligned in time). If you want to play it safe you can shift-control-drag it to make a copy, then mute or archive the original.
Either way if you need to change it later you can unfreeze, make your changes, re-freeze and re-drag the new one onto the 'new' track where it will have whatever post-freeze effects or EQ you created before.
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JonD
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 16:04:32
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UnderTow
dke
Yeah I can't understand the reasoning behind freezing the Pro Channel with the track and no option not too.
+1
When in doubt, make it an option.
UnderTow
Uh... no. Sorry, but that's a horrible idea. You are describing a formula for bloatware, plain and simple (I'm talking about the idea in general, not necessarily as it pertains to Pro Channel).
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UnderTow
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 16:25:20
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JonD
When in doubt, make it an option.
UnderTow
Uh... no. Sorry, but that's a horrible idea. You are describing a formula for bloatware, plain and simple (I'm talking about the idea in general, not necessarily as it pertains to Pro Channel).
If there is a clear cut best option, then do that but when in doubt, when it is really not clear how things should be done because half the users want it one way and the other half the other way or because the best option depends on circumstances, then by definition, not giving the options to the users is the wrong choice because you are guaranteed to have many people unhappy with the choice made. Of course when possible the need to choose should be avoided altogether. If one could use the ProChannel as a plugin and insert it in the FX bin then we could do like we can with every FX plugin: Either freeze a whole track or first bypass the FX bin, freeze and then turn the FX bin back on. So in essence it was the choice not to make the ProChannel a plugin that is now limiting the options and posing this conundrum. UnderTow
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Keni
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 16:26:55
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dke
Stone House Studios
This is kind of funny - there were previous complaints because ProChannel didn't freeze along with the track - therefore continuing to affect when it was thought to be frozen!
Brian
I don't recall seeing anyone complain about the ProChannel not being included with a freeze, not saying somebody didn't. At any rate IMO it should have been an option, it wouldn't have taken them any longer to add the option to be included with a track freeze rather than making it the only option.
Dan
Sorry to say, But I was one of them... But I never would have expected it to ONLY freeze with the track and not be available for mix after.... In the past I would have asked for bacon for breakfast and the bakers would know I wanted eggs to go with them... and then add a few trimmings to make breakfast even better! Now? I'm sitting for months with a software that is very "difficult" to deal with... some things work, some don't, things are missing, things need to go away! I'm very sad this year... Keni
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Stone House Studios
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 17:37:51
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Yes but, how do you like your eggs? With or without bugs? : )
Brian
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cornieleous
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 18:21:54
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JonD
UnderTow
dke
Yeah I can't understand the reasoning behind freezing the Pro Channel with the track and no option not too.
+1
When in doubt, make it an option.
UnderTow
Uh... no. Sorry, but that's a horrible idea. You are describing a formula for bloatware, plain and simple (I'm talking about the idea in general, not necessarily as it pertains to Pro Channel).
I don't think that is an accurate assumption at all. There is at least one up and coming brand DAW out there with extremely customizeable interface (tons of options at every turn) with a much smaller footprint (5MB vs. 100+ for the core application), all while delivering butter smooth audio engine performance. The GUI on said application can be as cluttered or as minimal as you like due to all those options. That is at least one case where your assumption doesn't hold up at all. I think it really comes down to intelligently designing each feature with the right amount and presentation of options - a MUCH better approach to rigid implementation of features that plagues X1 and other applications. In fact the lack of choice on so many things is why some of us are still clinging to our 8.5.3. D.
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Keni
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 20:27:43
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Having ALL tools is not bloated... It's more complete! ;-)
Tho I believe this should be corrected so that it has both potentials just as plugins do, I'd rather have it "wrong" this way than the prior as I usually freeze to save cpu overhead, so not being able to freeze my comp/eq for a track made it of very limited use for me...
Tho I guess I could have bounced the tracks then and achieved the same result, this is more of a "common" setting for me...
Now I too await the fix so that both options are available... as they should be!
Keni
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dke
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/02 22:18:49
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Keni
Sorry to say, But I was one of them... But I never would have expected it to ONLY freeze with the track and not be available for mix after.... So this is all your fault!!! 
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Blogman
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/03 12:25:17
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I work with tons of synth tracks, I would hate to have to make new tracks for all of them, or bus them. I just want to do it the way I've done it for years. I have to get all my orchestra/band parts jived and arranged the way I want long before I ever touch an EQ. On the mixing side, I may tweak EQ/COMP quite a bit till I'm happy as well. Unfreezing every single track and refreezing is simply CRAZY! The guys at Cake didn't think this one through. +1 on the OPTION to freeze. Besides, even if it's grayed out, we should be able to unbypass and turn it back on and even refreeze newly inserted effects to the audio.
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Loptec
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/03 12:42:28
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You still can do just as you've done for years, since Pro.Ch. is a quite new feature :)
After you've frozen a track you still can activate the effects bin and use vst plugins on the track.
But still. I also think it's crap that there's no option for this.
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
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Blogman
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/05 23:38:40
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Loptec
You still can do just as you've done for years, since Pro.Ch. is a quite new feature :)
Haha..... You know what I mean. :) I'd like to use Pro Ch the same way as my VSTs or as I've used the plugged in Sontius EQs. Maybe this option would be a good candidate for the 'Quickfix program.
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/06 10:57:39
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Hi guys, Just to jump in here quickly- Re: "When in doubt, make it an option." Totally agree. But before we get to that point, we like to find a way to solve the problem via workflow. Adding an option isn't a last resort, but it is not ideal. In this case, we received reports of ProChannel "doubling" that would occur when a track was frozen with ProChannel processing. It would get processed again - not the intended behavior. If you want to process a frozen track with ProChannel, fire up a bus! We offer an unlimited amount of them. (; (and not to commit to anything, but we may readdress this in the future) I hope this helps!
post edited by Zyler Vega [Cakewalk] - 2011/04/06 11:30:22
Zyler Vega
Quality Assurance Engineer DSP Beta Administrator
Cakewalk, Inc.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/06 11:32:00
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I actually agree that it would be useful to have the ability to unbypass or bypass the entire prochannel module as a single entity just as we do for effects bins. In fact the prochannel is internally an effects bin in series with the user visible effects bin. There is no user interface to achieve bypassing the internal bin in X1 but we will consider this for X2.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/06 11:33:17
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panup
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Re:Frozen Synth can't use Pro-channel without un-freezing...
2011/04/06 12:01:41
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
In fact the prochannel is internally an effects bin in series with the user visible effects bin.
Hi Noel, Any idea to make a movable, visible placeholder for ProChannel in FX bin? I'd really like to put some effect (most obvious one is Gate) before PC but some others after PC. -Panu
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