Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1117
- Joined: 2006/07/10 15:44:42
- Location: Boston, MA
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 11:17:43
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
Here's an example of the side effect of these audio improvements, lots of posts like this around the internet...
http://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10-technical-preview/346759-build-10041-sound-drivers.html
My advise for anybody upgrading when it comes to the time... is to be cautious! Wait and monitor the internet.... As with any software (just like Platinum) often a lot of pain has to happen in order to get gain. It may end up that some audio drivers will need to be revised (or rewritten) for Windows 10, and Win10 may uncover driver bugs that may not have been apparent in earlier versions of Windows. And of course MS will bake in their own regression bugs to throw into the pot.
Is is really a side effect of the improvements or more that not all drivers have been updated yet for Windows 10? But agreed, it's good advice to proceed cautiously in case the drivers that are present on Win7/8 don't yet have support in Win 10.
|
Doktor Avalanche 
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 12:04:33
(permalink)
My guess is latency improvements will cause a wobble with badly written audio drivers as seen here... Windows 10 will expose flaws. Of course some drivers will need to be rewritten to accommodate for a different driver model. Are Windows 10 ASIO drivers (which MS still recommends for DAWs) any different to Windows 8.1 from a programming perspective?
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/05 12:11:59
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 12:08:11
(permalink)
And funnily enough in contact with Focusrite about this right now...
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1117
- Joined: 2006/07/10 15:44:42
- Location: Boston, MA
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 12:37:37
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Doktor Avalanche 2015/06/05 15:47:29
ASIO is basically a way to interface with the Kernel audio driver. So, a change to Windows wouldn't necessarily require a change to an ASIO driver. Given a good driver, ASIO should continue to work the same as before.
On Windows Store app side...
To support the lowestLatency quantuum setting for store apps, the driver would need to advertise something about it's buffer settings. Otherwise I'd imagine a higher latency would result.
Microsoft said a white paper was forthcoming about the low latency updates in Windows 10. That will be useful in better understanding the changes to the audio stack.
|
...wicked
Max Output Level: -1.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7360
- Joined: 2003/12/18 01:00:56
- Location: Seattle
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 12:49:07
(permalink)
hrm, so what this is telling me is that Cake hasn't had any developer insight into Win10? I was hoping there was some outreach there like in some previous Windows versions.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
|
Geo524
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
- Total Posts : 647
- Joined: 2010/04/18 00:41:06
- Location: UpState, NY
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 13:30:58
(permalink)
fireberd
While I will agree a clean install is usually best, I have no problems with an "upgrade" to a PC that is fully Win 10 compatible, both hardware (including recording hardware) and software.
Years ago it was a debacle to do an upgrade. Anymore its not that way.
As everything (Sonar Platinum and my recording hardware and other software) I've tried works OK with the Win 10 Pre-release versions, I will do the upgrade. If everything works OK (and I expect it will) I won't go thru the hassle of the clean install.
+1. I'll do a lean install if needed but if everything works with just the upgrade I'll leave it at that.
Win 10 x 64; CbB; SPlat; MixCraft 8 Pro; AMD FX4130, 3.8 GHz; DDR3 32 GB Ram; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20; SSD 1TB, 2 x 1TB and 1 x 640 GB HDD; Mackie HR624 Monitors, KRK G2 Rockit 5's, Dual HP S2331 23" MonitorsMusic and SFX http://www.radiosparx.com/georgeandmarguerite
|
BobF
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8124
- Joined: 2003/11/05 18:43:11
- Location: Missouri - USA
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 13:49:14
(permalink)
...wicked
hrm, so what this is telling me is that Cake hasn't had any developer insight into Win10? I was hoping there was some outreach there like in some previous Windows versions.
There was a post around here somewhere by Noel about the relationship and work these guys have done with M$.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 15:52:05
(permalink)
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
ASIO is basically a way to interface with the Kernel audio driver. So, a change to Windows wouldn't necessarily require a change to an ASIO driver. Given a good driver, ASIO should continue to work the same as before.
On Windows Store app side...
To support the lowestLatency quantuum setting for store apps, the driver would need to advertise something about it's buffer settings. Otherwise I'd imagine a higher latency would result.
Microsoft said a white paper was forthcoming about the low latency updates in Windows 10. That will be useful in better understanding the changes to the audio stack.
Yeah that's what I'm figuring. Maybe MS will introduce a code template so ASIO drivers can be written better. WDM drivers will probably need tweaking big time though as this will have to go through their MS's framework rather than bypass through to the hardware abstraction layer with a third party wrapper.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1117
- Joined: 2006/07/10 15:44:42
- Location: Boston, MA
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 16:11:57
(permalink)
...wicked
hrm, so what this is telling me is that Cake hasn't had any developer insight into Win10? I was hoping there was some outreach there like in some previous Windows versions.
Um? I think you misunderstood something there. We have a long standing relationship with Microsoft A lot of the changes in the audio stack for Win 10 center around Windows Store apps (reducing audio latency for store apps, adding midi support, etc.) We're not unaware of the changes.
|
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
- Total Posts : 6475
- Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
- Location: Boston, MA, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 16:16:59
(permalink)
...wicked
hrm, so what this is telling me is that Cake hasn't had any developer insight into Win10? I was hoping there was some outreach there like in some previous Windows versions.
Not sure how you drew that conclusion. Were most definitely in the loop with Win10 and have been in discussions with MS since much earlier on in its design. We even gave them plenty of feedback on issues to investigate. As Keith says the low latency stuff MS is are doing has to do with the higher level audio stack (Modern apps and not desktop apps) As such it should not impact low level access like ASIO or WDM at all. Most driver issues in new OS releases stem from installation problems where the installer is checking for a previous OS or relying on stuff that it shouldn't. There are exceptions like the Firewire issue but rare.
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 17:11:32
(permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Most driver issues in new OS releases stem from installation problems where the installer is checking for a previous OS or relying on stuff that it shouldn't. There are exceptions like the Firewire issue but rare.
Possibly naive question: does that mean that an upgrade install would just use the drivers that are already there, and thus present fewer hassles than a clean install?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
TheMaartian
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2774
- Joined: 2015/05/21 18:30:52
- Location: Flagstaff, AZ
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 17:42:59
(permalink)
shawn@trustmedia.tv
hEARD YESTERDAY THAT AN .iso FROM mICROSOFT will be available to do re-installs on your machine whenever you want...That is very important to me because the best way to optimize and fix your PC is to do a re-install of a clean copy of the operating system so GAME ON 10! -s
Just read the following blog post on "How to turn your Windows 10 upgrade files into an ISO disk image" by Ed Bott on ZDNet. Note that the "upgrade" comes in a compressed version of the ISO file (a .ESD file). The ISO file you're referring to is the one the MS plans to make available to all who take the upgrade option. Once you've upgraded, you can download the ISO file for doing future clean installs. The Product Key that you will be assigned for Win10 during the upgrade is the one that will work with the ISO clean installs. http://www.zdnet.com/arti...0-upgrade-into-an-iso/
Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08 Studio One 4 Pro Notion 6 Melodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7 PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
|
Geo524
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
- Total Posts : 647
- Joined: 2010/04/18 00:41:06
- Location: UpState, NY
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 21:37:07
(permalink)
TheMaartian
shawn@trustmedia.tv
hEARD YESTERDAY THAT AN .iso FROM mICROSOFT will be available to do re-installs on your machine whenever you want...That is very important to me because the best way to optimize and fix your PC is to do a re-install of a clean copy of the operating system so GAME ON 10! -s
Just read the following blog post on "How to turn your Windows 10 upgrade files into an ISO disk image" by Ed Bott on ZDNet. Note that the "upgrade" comes in a compressed version of the ISO file (a .ESD file). The ISO file you're referring to is the one the MS plans to make available to all who take the upgrade option. Once you've upgraded, you can download the ISO file for doing future clean installs. The Product Key that you will be assigned for Win10 during the upgrade is the one that will work with the ISO clean installs.
http://www.zdnet.com/arti...0-upgrade-into-an-iso/
Excellent. Thanks!
Win 10 x 64; CbB; SPlat; MixCraft 8 Pro; AMD FX4130, 3.8 GHz; DDR3 32 GB Ram; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20; SSD 1TB, 2 x 1TB and 1 x 640 GB HDD; Mackie HR624 Monitors, KRK G2 Rockit 5's, Dual HP S2331 23" MonitorsMusic and SFX http://www.radiosparx.com/georgeandmarguerite
|
Geo524
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
- Total Posts : 647
- Joined: 2010/04/18 00:41:06
- Location: UpState, NY
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 21:38:55
(permalink)
I was informed by Focusrite that driver's will be ready for the Win10 release,but I'm still not upgrading right away.
Win 10 x 64; CbB; SPlat; MixCraft 8 Pro; AMD FX4130, 3.8 GHz; DDR3 32 GB Ram; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20; SSD 1TB, 2 x 1TB and 1 x 640 GB HDD; Mackie HR624 Monitors, KRK G2 Rockit 5's, Dual HP S2331 23" MonitorsMusic and SFX http://www.radiosparx.com/georgeandmarguerite
|
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
- Total Posts : 6475
- Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
- Location: Boston, MA, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 22:31:56
(permalink)
John T
Possibly naive question: does that mean that an upgrade install would just use the drivers that are already there, and thus present fewer hassles than a clean install?
In many cases yes. In fact many so called driver updates for Win8 were simply new installers for the drivers. Ahem Roland<g> Again there can be exceptions if a driver does something incompatible with the new OS it could either crash or be inefficient.
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/05 22:38:57
(permalink)
Interesting. I do recall that the workaround for the V700 in Windows 8, before the drivers were updated, was just to do with tricking the installer.
I think I'm going to clone my boot drive, and have that handy for swapping back in if there are problems, and then do the upgrade. But I'm not doing any of it until a/ I hear some positive reports from braver explorers than I, and b/ until I've got a good clear day where nothing has to be delivered, which might not come up for a while.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/06 09:41:19
(permalink)
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
Woodyoflop
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 281
- Joined: 2008/11/07 01:14:55
- Location: Georgia and Washington (depending on time of year)
- Status: offline
Re: Get Windows 10
2015/06/06 15:42:06
(permalink)
I've reserved my copy too. But i will probably wait till all of you actually test it out before i install it ;) thanx guys :)
|