whats strange is that in this talk of classic amps marshalls are even considered for clean tone. I can't think of a worse way to get clean tone to be honest but hey opinions are like a**holes.

For clarification are we talking about:

A. getting a guitar tone that inspires us as we are playing the guitar
B. getting a guitar tone that sounds great played through studio monitors in recorded form in the mix of a song

They really are two different things. I see it kind of like comparing a digital piano to a baby grand. I'm not much of a pianist, but I play some keys. When I sit down to a grand and play, it is inspiring. You feel the sound through your fingers. The touch, the volume, vibrations, sustain, etc are not there with a digital keyboard. But can anyone tell the difference in a recording? I really doubt it.

From my experience (granted, probably not as much as some here), there's no way an amp sim through headphones or monitors is ever going to sound as good to the guitarist as he is playing (and this is the key) as a good amp cranked. It just isn't going to happen. The sheer volume coming through powerful 12" speakers and cabinets designed for that purpose and moving air is something most guitarists have come to know and love. And there is a lot to be said for how that can affect your playing and inspiration.

All that said, you simply cannot argue that recording a dry signal, then being able to shape that tone after the fact any way you can imagine provides much more flexibility for the recording. And in the mix, I do think the end result could fool anyone.

So to me, we are talking about two different things. If playing a cranked amp inspires some players, you'll mever convince them that an amp sim is "just as good". Even if the end recorded results are extremely convincing, it's apples and oranges. Without an inspired soulful performance, the recorded tone is irrelevant.

But is there some logic in a compromise for the sake of the project? And can we learn to play with inspiration without staring at our cranked amp? I think I can. And obviously some studio players have.

maybe you are right I just have never ever used a marshall and managed to get a open airy BIG clean tone, though i have never properly used a plexi at full pelt. the jcm800 is probably the worst "good" amp i have ver tried

It's interesting that this thread is so popular.

Let me ask a related question. Who has officially defined exactly what guitar tone is, and what is good guitar tone and what is bad guitar tone? Is there a law or a commandment or anything that says a guitar has to be amplified with tubes?

Another question. If I lined up the world's finest guitarists and plugged each into a POD and the recorded them straight to disk, would those recordings automatically suck? Satriani or Romeo would play and sound worse if they recorded with a POD? I really doubt it.

The OP wanted to learn how to get professional sounding guitar tones. I think there are 3 key ingredients that will deliver professional sound.

1. Have impressive talent. If someone sucks at the guitar, I doubt it can be fixed. It is still impossible to shine a turd.

2. Have decent equipment and know how to work with that equipment. This includes other key sound ingredients that havn't been touched on yet, like the guitar. A $50 made in china guitar with action in the centimeter range, inferior electronics and poor craftsmanship leading to poor tonality and intonation probably isn't going to give stellar recordings.

3. Good recording equipment. If one wants to record direct with a POD, Tonelab, V-AMP, GNX GT8 or even GR2 they will be good enough for a professional sound if the first two criteria are satisfied. If not, a good recording room, a good mic and a well maintained amp, solid state or tube, will be needed.

I must repeat something I said earlier. The listener really doesn't care if a CD is recorded with a POD or a boutique amp using the most expensive mics in the most expensive studio. They are judging your talent, not your guitar tone. If not, Malmsteen would never have been famous

ORIGINAL: artsoul

whos romeo?

Michael Romeo from Symphony X. If you like guitar-focused music he's definitely worth a listen.

For the tone snobs. Taken from http://www.anycities.com/andyhifi/musicians.htm, I don't know if the link is still active but I printed it to a PDF if anyone wants the whole article.

The truth is that the "tone" of your guitar and amp is in your fingers and your music. Unless you are
playing solo guitar without any effects and the guitar is a solo lead instrument (not just rhythm), guitars
tend to sound the same. Many guitar fans want to emulate their rock star idols by buying the same
equipment their idols endorced. But unless you read interviews of people who were actually there when
those rock stars made their famous recordings, you won't know what equipment was actually used. For
example: fans of Jimi Hendrix buy Fender Stratocasters and Marshall amps, but Hendrix actually made
his most famous recordings with Gibson and Hofner and Epiphone and Gretsch guitars into Silvertone
and Burns and Fender amps, for live performancs Hendrix used solid state "fuzz" pedals into "clean"
Marshall amps; fans of Jimmy Page buy Gibson Les Paul guitars and Marshall amps, but he made his
most famous recordings with Fender Telecaster and Danelectro guitars into small "practice" Fender
Champ amps; B.B. King made some of his most famous recordings with Fender Telecasters; Mark Knopfler recorded with guitars by Pensa; Stevie Ray Vaughn's "main" recording guitar was a Hamiltone
built by James Hamilton with EMG pickups, and he also used Gibson guitars with a Silvertone amp and
a Fender Vibroverb amp with an Ibanez TS-9 pedal, the amps he recorded with are considerably less
expensive than the Dumble amp and beat up guitars he toured with and used in videos and photos; the
guitarist for U2 uses a wide variety of guitars such as Gibson, Rickenbaker, Fender, etc., but no matter
what he uses he still sounds like him and nobody can differentiate which guitar was used on his
recordings, not even him; Slash, was the famous "Gibson" guitarist for Guns 'N Roses, but his guitar was
actually a replica guitar built by an independent luthier who didn't even work for Gibson; Kurt Cobain
appeared on stage with a Marshall amp that wasn't even plugged in, the cabinets were empty so he could
more easily shove his guitar neck through the cloth when he "trashed" his equipment at the end of his
concerts, he actually used an Ibanez TS-9 and SansAmp into the PA; some rock stars have used such a
wide variety of guitars and amps that even they can't remember what they've used. Some people pretend
to be connoisseurs of amp "tone" and speak revently of "tube tone", without realizing that their idols
used solid state effects pedals like the Ibanez TS-9 and their amps "clean." It's amusing to see people
spend lots of money collecting equipment to emulate their idols, but all the while they've had no idea
what equipment their idols actually used. Some people want to emulate their idols like tribute bands do
and they try to adopt their identities from their posessions; they say things like "I'm not a Fender-man,
I'm more of a Gibson-man", all the while they're completely mistaken about what their idols actually
used.

Interesting, no?

ORIGINAL: DigiDis

Interesting, no?

Interesting, yes. Very interesting indeed.

The listener really doesn't care if a CD is recorded with a POD or a boutique amp using the most expensive mics in the most expensive studio.

For the vast majority of listeners, this is true. It's even true for me to a certain extent.

There are some listeners to whom this makes a discernible difference, and their perspective is valid as well.

Pop music, layered sounds, modelers are OK by me.

Guitar heros, I prefer tube amps recorded in great sounding rooms with great analog gear.

can I ask something? how important is to use a DI box if you already have a good sound card?
I use a Saffire LE and connect my guitar straight into that but some dude told me I should first go into a DI box which has a balanced out, then go into the balanced input of the Saffire....

any idea? do I really need DI box?

Matt,

I so much agree with your assessment of new strings. I am totally addicted to new strings for the following reasons.

Because even slight traces of acidity on the hands starts to almost immediately wear into the finish, which diminishes the quality of the sound.

New strings intonate differently the second day and more so on the third and forth and so on. I check and adjust my intonation EVERY DAY.

I generally run my strings for a week when trying to be frugal. But I wipe them clean every hour or so and thoroughly when putting it down for any length of time.

I check the intonation before EVERY recording session.

Also if you don't finish a track in 1 day, it is difficult to achieve the same sound on the same strings 2 days later.

I never would play 2 gigs with the same strings. Because of the increased perspiration and use during gigs, gigs are much harder on strings than recording.

I have always been on a quest to get a perfectly tuned guitar that will stay in tune. This is a journey not a destination. Guitars are inherently out of tune. Here are the things I have found over 43 years of guitar playing that will get you as close as possible.

Make sure the neck is straight and stays straight.

Make sure the nut is a quality material and cut to the proper size. A good luthier can do this.

Make sure your frets are properly dressed or replaced every few years. Check the dressing every year.

Get a GOOD tuner, a strobe tuner or something with at least .01 cent accuracy.

Check and adjust your intonation every day. When you do this, it's not much work at all with a ACCURATE tuner, not a led cheap thing, which may be OK for a gig, but not for intonation work.

And the number one thing I have found that I would NEVER EVER EVER be without is LOCKING TUNERS, be they Sperzels, or Grovers or whatever. Locking tuners eliminate the coil of wire around the tuning peg, which acts as a SPRING that can coil and uncoil. Locking tuners removes this "spring" and strings stay put. Absolutely the number one thing you can do to make your guitar stay in tune. Andy they only cost around $60.

That's my decades of advice for the day.

Daryl

ORIGINAL: pisquano

can I ask something? how important is to use a DI box if you already have a good sound card?
I use a Saffire LE and connect my guitar straight into that but some dude told me I should first go into a DI box which has a balanced out, then go into the balanced input of the Saffire....

any idea? do I really need DI box?

It looks like your Saffire has an instrument level (DI) input, so you have a decent starting point.

However, not all DIs are created equally, there are active and passive and different impedances.

If yours is working and you're happy with the sound and performance, you're done. If you're still curious, you can try dedicated DI boxes to see if you can hear any difference and if it's worth spending more money.

ORIGINAL: pisquano

can I ask something? how important is to use a DI box if you already have a good sound card?
I use a Saffire LE and connect my guitar straight into that but some dude told me I should first go into a DI box which has a balanced out, then go into the balanced input of the Saffire....

any idea? do I really need DI box?

The Focusrite site doesn't offer the specification for the impedance of the inputs so even if you tell us what kind of guitar pickup you are using it will be difficult to tell you much about your situation.

read this webpage: http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/tips/guitar_cords/ It's got solid info in an easy to undersatnd explanation. If you understand what they are talking about you will begin to understand why you want a direct box... you want to get from a hi-z circuit to a low-z circuit and you want to do it with the frequency response that a guitar to dedicated guitar amp connection provides. The term "unbalanced instrument input" is too vauge and you must imediately assume that the input impedance is not the ideal *very*hi-z for guitar but more of a general mid-hi so as too accomodate other connections (think keyboards, rack effects, acoustic guitar pickups etc).

Now if any of that made sense you can begin to appreciate why some (particularly the latest models) electric guitar fanatic direct boxes are designed especially to get a clean tone frequency response that is simlar to a guitar/amp combo. Other direct boxes are more generic like the "unbalanced instrument input" described above.

If you have some kind of acoustic-electric pickup system (piezo, condensor mic, etc) then you want a different direct box than someone with traditional coil wound pickups. That's why guitar stores have "acoustic guitar" amps... it's not just that they are colored brown... they have input impedances designed to match popular acoustic guitar pickups. So you get the frequency response the pickup designers hoped you would enjoy.

best regards,
mike

Awsome strat. those sound nice. I wish i didnt have enough toys already, Maybee i can squeeze one more in...He he he

CJ

So much has been written but e. gtr is probably the most simple instrument to record. If you have a good sound put a mic in front of it and that's about it. If you don't have a good sound to begin with then start hanging around with people you think sound good. Figure out what they're doing and apply it to your situation. If they use tube amps then so should you. If they don't use the latest multi FX box then set yours aside. Figure out their sound and then make your own.

There are lots of bedroom warriors who have killer bedroom tone and will tell you how great their sound is and that it's just like this or that. Those are not the guys to get tips from. Find some guy who plays clubs all the time and always sounds good no matter where he is. This is the person who knows something. THat something might only be one thing but it's worth knowing.

If you have a sound that you think is good but when you mic it up it doesn't sound that way it means one of two things: It actually isn't a good sound or you don't know what a good guitar sound is like coming from studio monitors. The former is key to operating amp modlers. Pete Anderson is an amp farm guy but he's also spent years recording killer sounds from killer amps. If you know what it should sound like then you're half way there.

Everyone is welcome to disagree with what I've said.

What Mike said is exactly how I felt it too....just sounds flat. It sounds good though but it's like its missing something, like warmth. I've tried almost all the amp sim plugs out there and, for me, they just didn't cut it. I think the closest to a metal sound was GreenMachine II and it still sounded dull compared to my Mesa/Boogie going direct (not even with a mic). The jazz sounds were good, but nothing compared to a Polytone amp. But like I said before, if you're happy with it then cool .