tlw

And don't get me started on high-priced custom-shop "relics"....

DrLumen
What is going to be the issue with these guitars? From what I know this seems to meet the base specs like solid body, maple neck and rosewood fingerboard. Is it the electronics or likely a more structural problem like an easily warped maple neck? Or just super cheap hardware in general?

kennywtelejazz

tlw

And don't get me started on high-priced custom-shop "relics"....

Why hold yourself back , I would love to hear about what you have to say about the ones you own .

tlw

DrLumen
What is going to be the issue with these guitars? From what I know this seems to meet the base specs like solid body, maple neck and rosewood fingerboard. Is it the electronics or likely a more structural problem like an easily warped maple neck? Or just super cheap hardware in general?

I guess there is one basic issue. It's called a Les Paul but is nothing much like the guitar Les paul designed and won't sound like one either.

The woods may be commonly used ones, but are wrong for a Les Paul - Les Paul's design was and is a mahogany body, glued in mahogany neck and a thick carved and shaped maple top to the body. The difference in the timber and construction will make a difference to the sound, response and sustain of the guitar. The Les Paul Specials and Juniors usually lacked the maple cap on the body, but still had the mahogany/glued neck construction and the same quality hardware and pickups as the rest of Gibson's guitars.

Those small single-coil pickups resemble nothing ever fitted to a Les Paul by Gibson. The "correct" pickups are P90s or more commonly humbuckers, all of which have a very different tone to that kind of single-coil and much higher output as well.

Poor hardware is pretty normal at that price no matter who made the guitar, the profit margins are very tight and the factory gate price is probably only around 1/3-1/2 what the end customer pays, So corners get cut with the materials and the finishing work on nuts, frets and setup.

For me the biggest issue is the name. Not through any snobbish idea that Epi/Gibson are "devaluing the Les Paul brand" but because guitars in that price bracket generally sell to beginners, often as birthday/Christmas presents or after a lot of saving up for one. Any kid getting one of those in the hope of learning to play rock or metal and sound like their Les Paul toting heros is going to be disappointed. Not much more money would get them something far more like what that "Les Paul" claims to be.

Epiphone make some very acceptable guitars and some very good ones, generally at fair prices for what you get and obviously they want to compete at the beginner end of the market. Gibson own the Les Paul trademark on guitars, but to put the Les Paul name on a thing that only has the basic outline in common with a Les Paul I find a bit, well, wrong. Had they called it something else rather than riding on the fame of a guitar it barely resembles, then fine.

But they didn't.

Beepster
Squiers and Epi's are absolutely the better value by far... at least for the working guitarist.
 
For collectors? Not so much... but I ain't a collector.

tlw

kennywtelejazz

tlw

And don't get me started on high-priced custom-shop "relics"....

Why hold yourself back , I would love to hear about what you have to say about the ones you own .

I own no custom shop guitars made by anyone. There's a reason for that and it isn't necessarily financial. The custom shop Fenders I've tried have never struck me as significantly better than the rest of the range. To me the Mexican and Japanese guitars are the best deal Fender offers, and a pickup change if you don't like the originals and maybe a nut swap can make a Mexican that's been put together out of resonant wood a very good guitar indeed.

The first Fender Custom Shop Strat I saw had been air brushed with a reproduction of the famous Marilyn Monroe Playboy centrefold. A price tag something like four times that of a production-line US Strat but it looked gorgeous. A high price for that kind of finish I can understand and appreciate, even if the end result is something I'd be terrified of playing in case I scratched it.

As for "relics", I know some people like them though I don't. Paying a lot more money for a guitar because a Fender employee has beaten it up and sanded finish off just doesn't appeal to me at all. If I really wanted a "relic" look quickly I could do that stuff myself in a few hours.

I can see a role for articial relics (or "distressing as the antique trade calls it) if it's desirable for artistic reasons to look like you're playing an old, worn guitar or you're a famous person who's associated with one particular guitar and want a replacement or spare to look identical to the original. But I prefer my guitars to get reliced naturally, as a result of picking up dings over time and the paint wearing through use.

michaelhanson

Beepster
Squiers and Epi's are absolutely the better value by far... at least for the working guitarist.
 
For collectors? Not so much... but I ain't a collector.

I bought this Epi for my 50th.  Later grabbed a Gibson 490R PU off eBay and had a Gibson bridge PU, Classic 57 plus from another guitar, that I installed into the Epi.  This guitar competes tone-wise with my Gibson LP and in some ways, actually sounds better, if you are looking for that semi-hollow tone. 
 

Beepster
 
Yup, that's very similar to the first electric guit I actually owned (my mumzie bought it for me) except it was a "SAGAII" and I've been having a balls up of a time finding much info on them but it was $500 in about 1990 dollars. It was a great guit but useless for high gain at high volumes (squealed like a pig) but man did I love that thing. I foolishly pawned it in my early 20's AND FORGOT I HAD (because I was playing bass at the time and was an idiot). I even took a lesser amount on the pawn because I wanted to be able to get it back more easily. Once I realized what I had done over a year later (after the pawn term was expired and it was lost forever) I was crushed. So stupid because it would have only been about $70 to get it back.
 

Slugbaby
My first guitar was a Saga-II as well, a Gibson SG copy.  I remember it being surprisingly good.  I think I sold it to help pay for my first Telecaster.
I've looked around for Sata-II lately, but can't find anything about them online.  I've got the urge to buy a cheap "copy" guitar and Frankenstein it with high-end parts, I just can't decide on the base model.  Wouldn't be this "Les Paul" though, it's hideous!

Beepster

michaelhanson

Beepster
Squiers and Epi's are absolutely the better value by far... at least for the working guitarist.
 
For collectors? Not so much... but I ain't a collector.

I bought this Epi for my 50th.  Later grabbed a Gibson 490R PU off eBay and had a Gibson bridge PU, Classic 57 plus from another guitar, that I installed into the Epi.  This guitar competes tone-wise with my Gibson LP and in some ways, actually sounds better, if you are looking for that semi-hollow tone. 
 

Howdy, Mike.
 
Yup, that's very similar to the first electric guit I actually owned (my mumzie bought it for me) except it was a "SAGAII" and I've been having a balls up of a time finding much info on them but it was $500 in about 1990 dollars. It was a great guit but useless for high gain at high volumes (squealed like a pig) but man did I love that thing. I foolishly pawned it in my early 20's AND FORGOT I HAD (because I was playing bass at the time and was an idiot). I even took a lesser amount on the pawn because I wanted to be able to get it back more easily. Once I realized what I had done over a year later (after the pawn term was expired and it was lost forever) I was crushed. So stupid because it would have only been about $70 to get it back.
 
Anyhoo... the "Lucille" of course isn't a proper hollowbody like that but has the multi switch which would be a trade off. Ideally I would have another "Dot" like that as well to replace my old SAGAII on top of the Lucille but if wishes were dishes then my life would resemble a Greek wedding (what with all the smashiness).
 
I think we've had this convo before though so hopefully that wasn't too boring. Hope you've been well and didn't get mucked up in this hurricane business of late.
 
Cheers!
 
 

Ham N Egz
Ironic, back in the 70-80s weren't there some famous Les Paul copies  from Japan (one that even invoked a lawsuit)
that were supposed to play pretty well and now are collectors items?
 
Thos of you who might  had/have one or know about it, were they good wood and hardware?

michaelhanson
My point has always been that Epi's can be REALLY good.  Where they usually lack, is in the PU's and electronics.  Through in real Gibson replacement parts and they can get awfully close to the real thing.