Helpful ReplyGoodbye Sonar, I've had enough.

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GMcT
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2015/10/03 12:46:38 (permalink)

Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough.

Let me start by saying that I'm not looking for feedback from the users, this post is aimed at the developers.
 
As a former FL Studio user, I bought Sonar primarily to get access to better quality content; mainly, virtual instruments, which you term soft synths, even if they're not synthesizers per se.
 
I find that I cannot compose an instrumental with any great accuracy and that using Sonar is inefficient and frustrating.
I waste too much time sorting problems/bugs that I didn't have before moving to Sonar.
 
The Excel style "rows and columns" approach utilised in FL's sequencer view does not exist, the closest alternative I have found being multiple overlaid PRV data tracks, but there is a limit to how many different colours of Midi data I can follow.
Comparing two tracks at a time in a multi-track project is simply too time consuming.
In FL, I was free to create a huge number of single or multi-instrument patterns (using piano rolls and step sequences in the same pattern!) and align them precisely with regard to their relative timings, whilst viewing only their size/length, not their content; but in Sonar, I have huge single tracks that have no subdivisions.
Markers, clip groupings and step sequencer clips are nowhere near as accurate or as useful.
Trying to line up two tracks (guitar with drums for example) is a very arduous task, demanding many hours of zoomed-in (32nd note accuracy) screen work.
Not enjoyable, not amusing and a waste of my creative time.
 
Changing between PRV tools creates constant clashes between the note duration value and the grid snap-to value.
Why doesn't the grid automatically reset to follow the note duration? and why can't they both be locked globally until the user wants to change them?
Why isn't there an "end of project marker"?
Many people have requested this feature, but it has never been implemented.
 
Copy/paste and move, frequently results in a small placement error, (1/64th generally) but which requires constant attention over the entire track length.
I also have a bizarre issue with the third note in the PRV not sounding, and yet a copy/paste of that data played normally.
This was in more than one project and required the first three notes to be deleted and replaced, with the copy being unaffected, yet when first placed, they had played correctly until the track became longer.
I have more issues with Sonar, but in the interests of brevity and to keep this post short, I'll leave them out.
 
I can see that for people who record audio, Sonar could be useful, but for a virtual instrument musician like me, it creates more problems than it solves.
 
Whilst researching the purchase of a new DAW, I did read a piece of advice which said "once you learn a DAW, stick with it and don't change".
I think that this is extremely good advice, even if you are unhappy with the instruments available, like I was.
 
I have placed several posts in the forums over the last few weeks and I would to thank all the users who contributed positively with their knowledge, suggestions and encouragement.
I would also like to thank the people who have created video tutorials, of which I have watched many and learned much.
 
So, I'm going to return to being creative in what I view as a technically inferior program but which is far more user-friendly and has a vastly superior interface/workflow.
Goodbye Sonar, it was a real waste of money, but that is something you can only find out by paying for it and trying it out.
The demo is almost completely useless and really needs to be as fully enabled as possible, but load disabled until unlocked.
That way, potential customers can create something of value, which can surely only encourage them to purchase the product, whilst also testing the performance of Sonar on their computer.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 13:05:55 (permalink)
Graeme McTaggart
Let me start by saying that I'm not looking for feedback from the users, this post is aimed at the developers.


These are user forums as you know. So you'll gonna get it whether you like it or not.

Have fun with fruity loops, I'm sticking with what I know...

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ampfixer
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 13:33:09 (permalink)
The newest FL Studio looks really good. I hope you can get back to it and be happy. Good luck.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#3
CL2Zero
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 13:44:35 (permalink)
Graeme McTaggart
The Excel style "rows and columns" approach utilised in FL's sequencer view does not exist, the closest alternative I have found being multiple overlaid PRV data tracks, but there is a limit to how many different colours of Midi data I can follow.



Have you tried the Step Sequencer in Sonar?

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Zargg
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 13:50:57 (permalink)
Good bye. All the best. May you find what you are looking for. I will as the Doktor said, stay with what I know

Ken Nilsen
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slartabartfast
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 14:13:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jbow 2015/10/03 18:52:24
It sounds like the layout in Fruity Loops fits your workflow. I was under the impression that VST virtual instruments could be added to FL. If so then buying a full service audio editor/sequencer would seem to be unnecessary. I was also under the impression that FL could export MIDI, in which case you could probably still use both. I hope the developers will not take this to heart, but I fear they will. They have already gone way too far for my taste in making Sonar fruity. 
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Anderton
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 14:26:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Afrodrum 2015/10/04 03:54:54
Graeme McTaggart
Let me start by saying that I'm not looking for feedback from the users.

 
Normally I would respect your wishes, but I feel several points need correcting. Don't worry, I won't be hostile  - I am trying to be educational here for those who are SONAR users.
 
In FL, I was free to create a huge number of single or multi-instrument patterns (using piano rolls and step sequences in the same pattern!)

 
SONAR can combine piano rolls and step sequences in the same track and/or clip, and they can be opened independently and/or converted from one format to the other...or not.
 
and align them precisely with regard to their relative timings, whilst viewing only their size/length, not their content

 
You can show/hide clip content in Track View. I find the Track View inline PRV far more useful than the standard PRV for doing large-scale MIDI project manipulation. I use the standard PRV for detailed editing of individual tracks.
 
but in Sonar, I have huge single tracks that have no subdivisions.

 
If I understand what you're saying, this is all possible using the inline PRV in track view. You can add subdivisions by making grid lines visible. The subdivisions adapt to the zoom level. I have zoom levels tied to keyboard shortcuts for instant resolution changes.
 
Trying to line up two tracks (guitar with drums for example) is a very arduous task, demanding many hours of zoomed-in (32nd note accuracy) screen work.

 
If I had to work that way in SONAR, I would have switched a long time ago. I don't know why you are having this problem.
 
Changing between PRV tools creates constant clashes between the note duration value and the grid snap-to value.
Why doesn't the grid automatically reset to follow the note duration? and why can't they both be locked globally until the user wants to change them?

 
Keyboard shortcuts allow quick access to customized workflows. Remember that a program like Fruity Loops is optimized for a specific type of task and workflow. SONAR is far more general-purpose, but to allow for different tasks and workflows, is highly customizable. A good example is the way it handles MP3 encoding. Instead of offering a built-in "one size fits all" solution, you can customize the encoding options to your specific needs and client requirements.
 
Why isn't there an "end of project marker"?
Many people have requested this feature, but it has never been implemented.

 
Most people know when a project ends, or delete the data past the intended end of the song by selecting in the time line for both tracks and buses so SONAR ends as expected. It's probably not that high a priority compared to some of the other features and fixes that have been implemented, which Cakewalk probably sees as impacting a wider group of users.
 
I also have a bizarre issue with the third note in the PRV not sounding, and yet a copy/paste of that data played normally.
This was in more than one project and required the first three notes to be deleted and replaced, with the copy being unaffected, yet when first placed, they had played correctly until the track became longer.

 
Sounds like note-offs were conflicting with note-ons. If you have notes butting up against each other, you probably need to increase the MIDI buffer size.
 
Goodbye Sonar, it was a real waste of money, but that is something you can only find out by paying for it and trying it out.
The demo is almost completely useless and really needs to be as fully enabled as possible, but load disabled until unlocked.

 
I didn't see any limitation you think SONAR has that wouldn't have been evident from the demo.
 
Whilst researching the purchase of a new DAW, I did read a piece of advice which said "once you learn a DAW, stick with it and don't change".
I think that this is extremely good advice, even if you are unhappy with the instruments available, like I was.

 
The main reason I'm responding to your post is I think that is not good advice at all. My advice would be "once you learn a DAW, learn another DAW." Many people here use more than one program...right tool for the right job, and all that. But, you have to approach each DAW on its terms. Trying to make it behave like the DAW you used formerly will always be a losing proposition because each DAW has its own workflow philosophy, limitations, and advantages.
 
When Ableton Live appeared, I tried to approach it as I did SONAR, Cubase, Pro Tools, and Acid, all of which I had used a lot so I was very fast and facile with them. Live was incredibly frustrating until I realized there was an "Ableton Way" of doing things. Once I figured that out, it was a piece of...cake.
 
And don't even TRY to think of Traktor as having anything to do with any DAW...
 
What I don't understand is if you were happy with Fruity Loops except for the virtual instruments, why didn't you just buy additional VST instruments to supplement them? Or switch to Reason, which has its roots in MIDI sequencing and includes some really great instruments? (I often ReWire into SONAR specifically to use those instruments...the two programs get along very well. I suspect they may go to dinner and a movie together when I'm not around.)
 
Frankly, a post like this seems like going into a car forum and saying "I bought an SUV, and while it carries lots of stuff and is quite safe, the gas mileage isn't very good and I can't take corners fast. I regret buying the SUV and should have bought a sedan." Fair enough...you should have bought a sedan. 
 
Fruity Loops is a fun program and fits certain types of needs very well. It sounds like you're their target customer. I guess someone like me is SONAR's target customer (i.e., I handle a wide variety of commercial projects, as well as music creation and audio for video), which is why I use it for the majority of my musical needs. If I was doing the soundtrack for "Lord of the Rings" and had to swap files on a daily basis with crews in Australia, the USA, and Europe, I'd use Pro Tools because that's what they would be using. 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Beepster
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 15:42:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2015/10/03 16:07:07
Yeah, alright. Thanks for wasting my time trying to help you.
 
If you wanted FL or Ableton then you should have bought those programs.
 
You wanted a sequencer, not a freaking DAW.
 
BTW... Sonar CAN do that stuff if you learn how to use it properly but not exactly in that way AND a lot of the content/instruments will still work in other programs.
 
This is on you. Not Cakewalk.
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LANEY
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 15:48:08 (permalink)
Thank you Craig! Very informational!



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kevinwal
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 17:57:22 (permalink)
Posts like the OP's have always bothered me, perhaps unreasonably so, but there ya go. To me it's like the decision to stop using a piece of software is some kind of major news event rather than what it actually is: a choice akin to paper or plastic, wool or cotton or Coke or Pepsi. I mean who cares, really? I blame Facebook.
 
OP, I'm sorry you didn't find Sonar to be what you thought it was despite the many hundreds of articles and videos available online, the easy accessibility of the incredibly gi-normous reference manual not to mention the full-featured demo. Indeed, your need to throw a departing neener-neener into the user forum (where many individuals stand ready to offer you free support) as a going away gesture rather than sending an email to the dev team with your feedback is totally and completely understandable.
 
See ya.
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twelvetone
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 18:20:48 (permalink)
"I also have a bizarre issue with the third note in the PRV not sounding, and yet a copy/paste of that data played normally."
 
That could be the old buffer size issue. You need to go and manually make it bigger. IIRC, the default size was increased some versions back, but nearly everybody stumbles over this one first time.
 
I agree the midi implementation, whilst improved, is problematic in many respects. Cakewalk 4 for DOS kinda set the tone for me. I came from Voyetra which was fluid by comparison (but unstable). In my next midi-driven project, I'll make a list and post it in the suggestions forum.
 
Thanks for the heads-up on FL, I will definitely give it a closer look.
 
I agree with Craig Anderton, use the DAWs that give you what you need.
 
Audio recording, as you say, is Sonar's strongest suit. It is a huge grab-bag of some amazingly powerful tools covering totally different styles of music and working, just waiting to be discovered (but see the recent Cave Man thread).
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slartabartfast
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 18:45:16 (permalink)
kevinwal
Posts like the OP's have always bothered me, perhaps unreasonably so, but there ya go. To me it's like the decision to stop using a piece of software is some kind of major news event rather than what it actually is: a choice akin to paper or plastic, wool or cotton or Coke or Pepsi. I mean who cares, really? I blame Facebook.

 
I take this kind of post as a venting of built up frustration. By the time someone is willing to abandon their investment in money and more importantly time in using an application, he is probably pretty darn fed up. This forum looks like a place that will at least allow the OP to express himself. But it is not a very good place to contact the people who make Sonar work (or not) the way he wants. Sonar is not an easy application to master. I, for one, do not think it should be. Simple apps do simple things in simple ways and if the most important thing to you in the creation of music is that it be simple, well twinkle twinkle little star. In spite of the steady commercial drumbeat of users like this, it is still possible to do serious work in Sonar. It is clearly not the difference between using plastic or paper which takes perhaps two seconds to master; it is the commitment to spending dozens to hundreds of hours learning the application. Ask skook. Clearly Cakewalk will get more customers if they dumb their app down to the lowest common denominator. The trick is to retain the depth and flexibility to be a truly useful tool. 
 
 
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Anderton
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 18:52:39 (permalink)
Beepster
BTW... Sonar CAN do that stuff if you learn how to use it properly but not exactly in that way



Exactly. I've worked with SONAR long enough that if I can't do something, I simply assume there's some way to do it that I haven't figured out yet. So I check the documentation and the forums. Almost invariably, there's some nugget inside SONAR that does what I want, or a workaround that's not problematic. Many of these are the basis of the "Friday Tip of the Week" because I assume if I didn't know something, at least some other people don't.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Anderton
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 18:58:51 (permalink)
twelvetone
I agree the midi implementation, whilst improved, is problematic in many respects. 



ADAT and hard disk recording turned MIDI into an endangered species for a while, and a lot of companies decelerated MIDI development. Then VST brought it back, and now multi-core, fast computers have made virtual instruments affordable and fluid. It wouldn't surprise me if the companies that left MIDI alone for a while, including Cakewalk, turn their attention to that next.
 
In my next midi-driven project, I'll make a list and post it in the suggestions forum.

 
...and that's how improvements happen . I was thinking of doing the same. I actually don't have much trouble with MIDI because I take full advantage of SONAR offering three distinct ways to work with MIDI. However, there's always room for improvement, and some of the recent MIDI improvements have been very welcome.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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artturner
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 19:00:51 (permalink)
I've been with Cakewalk since the late '90s. I have also found Reason to be intuitive and fun. But even though I put good money into FL Studio Signature, trying to work with it is remarkably frustrating. So I can imagine why coming the other direction might be just as challenging. BTW, I never record ANYTHING, nothing but VSTs and midi.
post edited by artturner - 2015/10/03 19:10:59
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Anderton
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 19:03:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/10/06 20:02:45
slartabartfast
...it is the commitment to spending dozens to hundreds of hours learning the application. 



I started playing guitar when I was 10. I still haven't mastered it, and it's only six monophonic oscillators on a plank of wood with three presets and four continuous controllers 
 
People need to remember that a program like SONAR does the equivalent of a studio that cost a million dollars not that long ago. No one would have walked into Record Plant and expected to be able to anything significant after a few weeks. It would take them that long just to learn the patch bay. And SONAR's backline...well, I never walked into any studio with anything equivalent.
 
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/03 19:03:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Tom Riggs 2015/10/03 22:42:40


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kevinwal
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 01:21:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby joel77 2015/10/04 09:28:27
Okay, I was too harsh in my reply, my apologies for the snarky tone, OP, and I should acknowledge your efforts in providing actionable feedback. Guess I was having a cranky moment and fired with both barrels without thinking.
 
That said, I stand by the essential point of my post. A misperception on your part of the nature and depth of a software system should probably not be laid at the feet of the designers. Sonar amazes and delights me every time I use it and I am regularly astounded by the sheer comprehensiveness of its feature set. It's an industrial strength studio in a box and if it seems complex, it's because the process it's enabling is a complex one.
 
I suggest you visit the songs sub-forum for a taste of what can be accomplished with a moderate understanding of how Sonar works. It's eye-opening, I assure you.
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ampfixer
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 03:15:57 (permalink)
Anderton
slartabartfast
...it is the commitment to spending dozens to hundreds of hours learning the application. 



I started playing guitar when I was 10. I still haven't mastered it, and it's only six monophonic oscillators on a plank of wood with three presets and four continuous controllers 
 



This is how you think after playing a guitar with robo tuners for any length of time. 

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
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potpourri
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 03:39:45 (permalink)
in cakewalks defence i also own Flstudio  , while it's pianoroll functions are great there is no comparing to sonar
regarding audioquality and slicing up beatmaterial , also Fl tends to mess up in the project timestretching department  , they are very much two different programs with Sonar coming more from a classic background and the other firmly in techno territory.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 05:38:07 (permalink)
Would like to take this opportunity to say thanks to the OP for sharing his opinion .
I do not share the same views he held about SONAR at all , but I do understand how frustrating it can be to have to learn to adapt to a program as deep as SONAR .
To go there and have a natural workflow with predictable and exact results requires a lot of patience and skill to accomplish that desired goal ….
Can't say I'm all there yet with SONAR , I do keep on working on cracking that nut , yet I can freely admit the fault lies within me as far as my progress goes , not with SONAR ….
The resources to learn SONAR are there and always have been …
When I get super frustrated with the learning curve , I end up playing my archtop guitar acoustically for hours on end to spit in the face of the digital revolution and the short electric choker collar it seems to have placed around my neck  
 
Anyway , the only reason why I am participating in this thread is because you have actually done me a favor ….
About a month ago I had downloaded the FL 12 demo and it has been sitting on my hard drive uninstalled ….
After reading your post I said to myself , what the hell , let me see for myself what this guy is talking about ….
Ran the installer and spent 3 hours poking around FL …..
Had a real blast ….I didn't do anything worth a $hit in 3 hours , but I did have a lot of genuine fun trying …
 
The GUI is so different from what I am used to …. It sort of has an Alien / Hieroglyphics  type of vibe going on ..
I'm gonna mess w it in my spare time and make a decision later on whether I will buy it or not ….
 
Hey Man , if you want to leave , do what you have to do ….
Before you go , have you considered there may be  a middle of the road approach to this issue that you can take as another option ?..
You already bought SONAR Right ? , why dismiss it ? most of the included soft synths and a good deal of the plugs will run in other DAW hosts …a lot of those assets kick the living pants out of what other DAW's include in their products …
Anyway taking a step back can be a good thing , once the breather is over , who knows with a little elbow grease you may come to really like SONAR and what it brings to the table ….
 
FWIW , I started a thread like this a little over a year and a half ago …
I told people I was so fed up with after having upgraded my computer to  Win 8 and jumping from SONAR 6 to X3 that I was gonna take my commuter to the shooting range and use that Rig for a target….I kid you not …. 
Folks here did help me out and I stuck around  a few probably wished i left , I'm here to stay 
 
 
good luck to you , 
 
Kenny
 
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/10/04 06:42:49

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
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#21
n13L5
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 05:48:33 (permalink)
So you expected Sonar to work like Fruity Loops but with greater variety of sounds you can create.
 
You know...  you can use all the Instruments that come with Sonar from another package that supports plug-ins.  So you got what you wanted, just use the stuff with some audio product that works more like FL, if that's what floats your boat.
 
There are *some* features in Studio One that go in that direction, where you still have the full track concept of Sonar, (which is more practical for recording contiguous life performances), but you can create any number of any size sections that cut across all tracks of the project and can easily be copied or moved around within the song.
 
Still not the same as FL, so if you're a one-person tinkerer who creates all his music measure by measure, FL is probably still your best bet.
post edited by n13L5 - 2015/10/04 06:10:57

Favorite toys: Sonar Platinum, Rapture Pro, D-Pro, Melodyne, Brian Hardgroove Collection, Z3TA+2, Mutant Revolution.
 
#22
Kylotan
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 07:00:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Paul P 2015/10/09 11:44:40
I don't see a problem with posts like this one. Forums shouldn't be some sort of self-congratulatory group where we all talk about how amazing our choice of software is. This guy had some problems and it's useful for developers to hear from such dissatisfied users. If they only listen to happy (or mostly happy) customers that's not going to expand their market. That's how things stay broken while the outside world looks in and says, "why haven't they fixed <xyz> yet?"
 
As someone whose first experience with music programs was trackers and sequencers, I can understand the frustration. To some degree, they are very different from a classic DAW, but in other ways, they are not, at least not in 2015. You can record and mix tracks of audio with FLStudio, you can arrange clips, record automation, add effects, compose using the piano roll, use VSTis, etc. With so much overlap, it's not unreasonable to think you can move from one to the other - the issue is just how much you lose compared to how much you gain.
 
Some of this is about the learning curve - yes, there is no 'Excel style "rows and columns" approach utilised in FL's sequencer view' in Sonar, but Track View with inline PRV is quite similar. No, it's not necessarily as compact for that purpose, but it's not flawless either (e.g. if you create a 2 bar pattern in FL's Piano Roll, those notes won't line up with the 1 bar pattern in the Step Sequencer tracks)
 
But other complaints are valid and highlight gaps in the Sonar workflow. Clips and clip groups are a very weak alternative to the arrangement potential of FL Studio's patterns. As OP says, 'huge single tracks that have no subdivisions' reflects the extra bookkeeping you need to do to arrange music in Sonar. And forget to lock a clip before you start editing the one adjacent to it and it'll just merge them together for you. If one of them was a linked clip you now broke every other copy of it in the song too, so hopefully you notice this happened when you switch things back to track view. Moving things around to arrange a song is arduous unless you've gone to the effort of switching the snap mode to 'To Measure' AND you went to the effort to make sure everything started on an exact measure. Sure, you could leave it on Snap By instead of Snap To, except that doesn't work well with actual composition.
 
EDIT: Removed rant about step sequencer and matrix view as I've calmed down a bit now - but they really need to be fixed or taken out.
 
post edited by Kylotan - 2015/10/09 12:16:04

Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc
 
Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
#23
fireberd
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 07:07:29 (permalink)
A couple of years ago I bought ProTools MP9, as most of my friends in Nashville use ProTools.  MP9 only recognized proprietary hardware (I had an MAudio Fastrack Ultra 8R that was compatible).  PT10 came out and it was supposed to be compatible with no proprietary hardware.  I got the 30 day download as I wanted to try it with my Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 which was certified as compatible.  I had to jump through hoops to get it to recognize the Saffire Pro 40 and even Focusrite support couldn't help.  I was finally able to get PT10 to recognize the Saffire Pro 40 but only with the help of Sweetwater tech.  Having used Sonar for a while (I started with Sonar 7) it was hard for me to get into ProTools so I abandoned it.  I've just stuck with Sonar since.   This is sort of the opposite of the user not happy with Sonar. 

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
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#24
bitflipper
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 10:22:53 (permalink)
I'm going back to FL, too.
 
The elastic wore out too fast on the Hanes, so it's Fruit of the Loom for me now.
 
Hey, the OP said he didn't want feedback.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#25
gustabo
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 10:42:25 (permalink)
bitflipper
The elastic wore out too fast on the Hanes, so it's Fruit of the Loom for me now.
 

I have yet to find a brand where the elastic doesn't wear out from repeated washings...


Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/

#26
fireberd
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 11:55:28 (permalink)
I can't go back to FL, I'm in FL.

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
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#27
Anderton
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 12:18:40 (permalink)
Kylotan
I don't see a problem with posts like this one. Forums shouldn't be some sort of self-congratulatory group where we all talk about how amazing our choice of software is. This guy had some problems and it's useful for developers to hear from such dissatisfied users.

 
There's nothing inherently wrong with posts that complain about SONAR. However, context matters. The definition of this forum is "Discussion focused on the use of SONAR Producer, Studio, Essential and Base." There are four forums in the Feedback Loop section, with three devoted specifically to problems related to SONAR, the forum, and the store, as well as one to post ideas and suggestions. The OP didn't answer anyone's question, offer any tips, or help anyone better achieve their goals of making better music with SONAR.
 
When you [kylotan] post a complaint, the ones I've seen are in the context of a) you know the program, so the problem is not due to lack of knowledge, b) you ask for confirmation from others that they experience the same problem to make sure it's not pilot error or something system-specific (which then encourages discussion, and sometimes reveals workarounds), and c) this helps people use the program better because they've been warned about a specific, reproducible issue. This to me is constructive criticism that often has a positive outcome. 
 
The premise that the OP didn't want feedback and was addressing the developers seems odd. Then why not use one of the forums mentioned previously, or use the "contact Cakewalk" option available from the top nav bar? Why post in a peer-to-peer forum and then say you don't want feedback?
 
But I think it's also a matter of courtesy. When I switched to SONAR, it never would have occurred to me to be so rude as to go into forums of the programs I used previously and say I was switching to SONAR, and good-bye to those programs. Those forums had people who were solving problems, exchanging tips, figuring out workarounds, etc. I feel it would be extremely narcissistic to think my opinion of a program is so important that I need to tell people the software they're using is a "waste of money," "inefficient and frustrating," "not enjoyable, not amusing and a waste of my creative time," "it creates more problems than it solves," "the demo is completely useless." That's not constructive criticism, that's a tantrum from someone who doesn't get his own way.
 
Never mind that my experience with SONAR is the exact opposite of what he describes. Why? Because only a fool wouldn't realize all programs have limitations, and the reason why so many programs exist is because people have specific needs, and they will assess a program's strengths and limitations in order choose the one that's most compatible with what they want to accomplish, in the way they want to accomplish it. There is no one-size-fits-all program.
 
If I had to use Fruity Loops for the kind of work I do, I would run screaming from the room. So should I go into the Image-Line forums and complain about all the things it doesn't do? Of course not. It's a fine program and the perfect match for many users. Just because it's not the perfect match for me, why should anyone care? Especially those who enjoy the program?
 
Finally, there's a difference between posts by experienced users who describe real limitations that exist and require fixing, and short-term users who experience limitations due to lack of knowledge or familiarity with the program. Rant posts often include a mixture of real and imagined problems.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#28
kitekrazy1
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 16:09:31 (permalink)
 I have both and I'm more of an FL fanboy than Sonar but for me they are like apples and oranges. Audio loops are much easier in Sonar.  Multi out VSTs are easier than FL.  VE Pro will not work in FL.
 I like them both but they are so different. BTW you will see the anti FL12 rants at Image Line as well.
 
  These type of posts are a dime a dozen.

Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4,  NVidia 750ti, AP2496
 
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
#29
Anderton
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Re: Goodbye Sonar, I've had enough. 2015/10/04 16:41:27 (permalink)
kitekrazy1
These type of posts are a dime a dozen.

 
A sad comment on a world that now revolves primarily around "me me me."
 
I have both and I'm more of an FL fanboy than Sonar but for me they are like apples and oranges.

 
Which is a good thing if you like both apples and oranges 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#30
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