PapaBear
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/29 23:46:45
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Thank you both, HeatherHaze and cliffr!
I should've mention that the Fliker Problem appeared at the beginning of 2011, when I was using a different computer with a different video card, with only 4GB RAM, and Windows 7 Ultimate x32. Two weeks ago, I removed the Radeon HD 7750 from the new computer and I am currently running on the built-in Intel HD 3000 component. It doesn't make any difference: the flicker is still there.
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chuckebaby
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 02:05:35
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PapaBear
Almost a month ago I was complaining that a number of Audio Effects not only don't work in Sonar X1d Expanded 64bit, but are freezing the program, causing loss of data and time. I didn't receive any solution on the forum; instead, some people stated that their systems are working without error, which is hard to believe, while others tried to be ironic, dismissing my apeal with the arrogance typical for the category of people they are belonging to. There was, of course, no word from Cakewalk Support, too busy probably with counting the money they make on us. Anyway, since someone suggested that "definitely there is something wrong with my system" I replaced the computer with a new build which has the following configuration:
- Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz CPU
- GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD5H LGA 1155 Intel Z77 Motherboard
- 16GB DDR3 1333 RAM
- Intel 520 Series 240GB SATA III SSD (for OS and Sonar+Plug-ins)
- Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive (for storage)
- Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit
This computer is not connected to the internet, doesn't contain antivirus and active firewal software, or programs like CCleaner, Glary Utilities, or any other useful program. it's just Windows and Sonar X1.
I am also using:
- Echo Sound Card (with the last ASIO drivers)
- Midiman MIDISPORT 8x8/s (with the last drivers)
- Alesis DM Pro Drum Module
- Kurzweil K2600X
- AKG K240 Headphones
- Genelec 1029A Speakers
As you imagine, I did a clean install of Windows and all available updates, and then I installed Sonar:
- Sonar X1 Producer (release build 184) + Beatscape + Dimension Pro + Additional Content [less the two demo projects])
- Sonar X1c Producer update (build 319)
- Sonar X1 Producer Expanded (build 425)
- Sonar X1d Producer Expanded update (build 535)
- Applied MP3 Activation
- z3ta+ 2.1 with Xenos Soundworks Bundle
Well, things improved compared with the situation I had a few weeks ago. THERE ARE NOW ONLY 3 AUDIO EFFECTS THAT ARE FREEZING THE SYSTEM: FX2 Amp Sim, FX2 Tape Sim, and z3ta+ fx2. Isn't this great?! You can ALMOST use Sonar like a stable program! After spending thousands of dollars you have only to remember 3 Audio Effects that still don't work! Other than that, and other than being unadvisable to install almost any other software on that computer Sonar X1 and its technical team are great, are almost perfect! Pretty soon we'll get Sonar X2, and for only a couple of hundred dollars we'll be able to enjoy a few more plug-ins out of which half will not work, or not work properly, or not work from the beginning, or will work starting with the second patch, or the expanded version, or only if you uninstall Windows...
Great work, Cakewalk! Great work!
maybe your doing something wrong? i dont think that 20+ users would all be lying and its all us and not you. im sorry for your problems man,but seriously those plugs work fine here. as i inserted them into the effects bin over and over i kept thinking the same thing? why,why is this happening to only him? i bet you anything its that Echo Sound Card. those arent the best things in the world. you spent all this money on a great computer but yet it seems you skimpped on the most important piece. the sound card. just do some reading around and youll see your not the only one with problems with that card. get a new card. hope you get it sorted.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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3dmus
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 03:10:29
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He replaced the soundcard with an RME one (see few posts back), but still experiences the issue. Also, Echo soundcards are actually seen as high quality soundcards. Maybe not to the RME level, but definitely regarded highly. I've personally had an Echo MIA for at about 8 years with zero issues (on 3 different computers, with both XP and Windows 7). Their drivers are rock solid.
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SteveGriffiths
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 03:25:24
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Look to Mudgels answer and reregister the dlls usng RegSvr
Cheers
Grif
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 12:52:12
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PapaBear
Almost a month ago I was complaining that a number of Audio Effects not only don't work in Sonar X1d Expanded 64bit, but are freezing the program, causing loss of data and time. I didn't receive any solution on the forum; instead, some people stated that their systems are working without error, which is hard to believe, while others tried to be ironic, dismissing my apeal with the arrogance typical for the category of people they are belonging to. There was, of course, no word from Cakewalk Support, too busy probably with counting the money they make on us. Anyway, since someone suggested that "definitely there is something wrong with my system" I replaced the computer with a new build which has the following configuration:
- Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz CPU
- GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD5H LGA 1155 Intel Z77 Motherboard
- 16GB DDR3 1333 RAM
- Intel 520 Series 240GB SATA III SSD (for OS and Sonar+Plug-ins)
- Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive (for storage)
- Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit
This computer is not connected to the internet, doesn't contain antivirus and active firewal software, or programs like CCleaner, Glary Utilities, or any other useful program. it's just Windows and Sonar X1.
I am also using:
- Echo Sound Card (with the last ASIO drivers)
- Midiman MIDISPORT 8x8/s (with the last drivers)
- Alesis DM Pro Drum Module
- Kurzweil K2600X
- AKG K240 Headphones
- Genelec 1029A Speakers
As you imagine, I did a clean install of Windows and all available updates, and then I installed Sonar:
- Sonar X1 Producer (release build 184) + Beatscape + Dimension Pro + Additional Content [less the two demo projects])
- Sonar X1c Producer update (build 319)
- Sonar X1 Producer Expanded (build 425)
- Sonar X1d Producer Expanded update (build 535)
- Applied MP3 Activation
- z3ta+ 2.1 with Xenos Soundworks Bundle
Well, things improved compared with the situation I had a few weeks ago. THERE ARE NOW ONLY 3 AUDIO EFFECTS THAT ARE FREEZING THE SYSTEM: FX2 Amp Sim, FX2 Tape Sim, and z3ta+ fx2. Isn't this great?! You can ALMOST use Sonar like a stable program! After spending thousands of dollars you have only to remember 3 Audio Effects that still don't work! Other than that, and other than being unadvisable to install almost any other software on that computer Sonar X1 and its technical team are great, are almost perfect! Pretty soon we'll get Sonar X2, and for only a couple of hundred dollars we'll be able to enjoy a few more plug-ins out of which half will not work, or not work properly, or not work from the beginning, or will work starting with the second patch, or the expanded version, or only if you uninstall Windows...
Great work, Cakewalk! Great work!
Hi Eugene, I located your email that you sent us on Friday and just directly replied to you directly as well with some system specific things I'll need. Regarding tech support: I'm sorry you had a poor experience in the past. I'm not sure who specifically you were working with but our current team, in my opinion at least, is top notch. I'm biased though, I know all of the people who work here and how smart and talented they are from personal experience ;) We get backed up with volume from time to time but we honestly try our best and I'd like to think we are usually pretty helpful. However, we are human after all and can only be truly helpful when given the chance to understand what you're running into and hopefully provide some suggestions or, even better, a solution. Our phone support line is free which compared to the competition is definitely not the norm. We're definitely not ignoring customers and counting our money. We're just busy and can't find time to read all forum requests as well. When it comes to support, we don't read from scripts but rather pull from each-other's knowledge. All of the folks here do quite a lot on the side outside of working here that is quite impressive. Everyone who works here has a very strong background in audio and we all work incredibly hard. All I can say is try to give our folks a chance and maybe we can get to the bottom of things together. Nobody likes being told their inadequate before given a chance. If we don't have the answer, we'll at least try our best and continue to research. Many folks on the forums are incredibly helpful as well and are a great resource so I don't blame you for reaching out to them also. In general, it's definitely easier if we ALL work together opposed to against each-other. I'm not better then any of the folks on here (not even close to it). For all I know they might find the solution before me, but I do have a few tricks up my sleeve that might be helpful if we work together. *crosses fingers* Regarding your Quick Start menu flashing/flickering: I've never personally seen this myself but I have to be honest and admit that I'm not sure I fully follow what exactly you're seeing. Perhaps you could create a screencast to show everyone what it looks like? Seeing a video of this behavior in action could answer a lot of questions for myself and everyone else following along. If you've never done this, an easy solution to creating a screencast is Jing from TechSmith which is available for free. You can find this here: http://www.techsmith.com/jing.html Also, this might sound like an odd question but you mentioned everything on your system has changed but SONAR... but what about your computer monitor? Seeing a screencast might confirm for the rest of us if we indeed are seeing the same thing on different monitors regarding flickering. Weird request, but you never know. Anyhow, I don't really follow what exactly you're seeing. I can't discern if it's just the Quick Start window itself flickering (as if the refresh rate is low when this window is open) or if you're referring to other windows being drawn strangely when the process of a project being created is actually taking place. I think a screencast would help us all (or at least myself) be able to avoid having to ask too many questions without really understanding. Last question for the moment regarding this behavior:
Do your projects take a long time to be created? Is there a noticeable delay? Can you try the suggestion in this article and let us know if it helps: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013218 UPDATE: Strikethrough is probably irrelevant given my mistake for reading "Splash" for "Quick Start"... but still good advice ;) Regarding your crashes: This is definitely not the norm. These plug-ins shouldn't crash immediately upon insertion. It sounds specific to your system. Not to say your actual system is at fault, but rather the installation (or lack there of) of something on your system seems to be interfering. Which version of SONAR X1 do you have installed? Can you go to Help > About SONAR and give us the exact build number? Also, do you have any previous versions of SONAR (or just the plug-ins themselves) installed? It would be helpful to know if you've installed plug-ins from a previous installation of SONAR. I sent you a follow up email that you can reply to with additional information when it comes to crashes. Ultimately what I'm looking for is a System Information file from your computer as well as a Minidump file from when SONAR is hanging/crashing. We have instructions on obtaining both of these files here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013196 It sounds like it's not creating a Minidump automatically, so you might have to use one of the techniques described here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013262 Try taking the steps found under Creating MiniDump files when one is not automatically created, specifically the part that says If you are running Windows Vista & Windows 7. Please try to get this file, it may prove to be very helpful in analysis of your crash. I sent you steps in the follow email on how you can get these files to me directly. Best regards, UPDATE: It dawned me I misread "Splash" screen for Quick Start. My brain kept thinking something else. I'm sorry about that!
post edited by Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk] - 2012/05/30 13:05:10
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John
Forum Host
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 13:16:15
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I have not had cause to call CW very often but I did a very few times over the years. Each time the person I talked to was extremely helpful.
For example I had for some time noticed that many of the products I bought from CW were missing from my store account. The tech told me he would take care of it and a day later all of my purchasers were listed going back to the very first one I did using the CW store.
I had only mentioned this to him and this was not the main reason I called. Yet after he fixed the problem I called about for me he also went through all my records and consolidated them for me in the store records. Some of the things listed I had forgotten about. LOL
He didn't have to do this yet he did. I did thank him for fixing the issue I called about but I couldn't at the time thank him for the extra work he did. I do now.
In my experience over a very long time I have never had any complaint about the quality of the help I've gotten from CW.
Whether I call sales or tech support. Both have been great in my book.
One thing may be the cause of having such a very positive time with CW is I don't cuss them out or attack them. I try to treat them as I myself wish to be treated.
Guess what they seem willing to go out of their way to help. Could it be because I'm not yelling at them that they want to help? Could it be because I treat them like human beings that they in-turn treat me the same way?
Also I do know things about my OS my computer and Sonar. I can answer any question they ask. This may be a reason too.
Treat people well and they will treat you well.
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Guitarpima
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 13:19:35
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Looks like I'll be sending tons of crash dump files not that I know how to create them when they occure. These crashes are EXTREMELY ANNOYING. They came with X1d.
I say dump the X1 format and go back to what was working very well and expand upon the 8.5 program which worked. Everybody deserves a mulligan. Look at Windows Me.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 13:42:21
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John
I have not had cause to call CW very often but I did a very few times over the years. Each time the person I talked to was extremely helpful.
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Thanks John! It's always nice to hear some positive feedback. I'll pass this along to the others.
Guitarpima
Looks like I'll be sending tons of crash dump files not that I know how to create them when they occure. These crashes are EXTREMELY ANNOYING. They came with X1d.
Definitely send them, that's why we implemented the Fault Reporter. For all we know, it might be something else crashing SONAR. This does happen. I've looked at the reports... there are MANY unstable plug-ins out there. If it is something in SONAR, the built in fault reporter has resulted in direct fixes to the app that we wouldn't have been able to get to the bottom of without. http://blog.cakewalk.com/...em-report-to-cakewalk/ No program is perfect, I don't see how improving our fault reporting to fix stability issues is a bad thing. You don't have to send the reports, but if you do it helps everyone.
I say dump the X1 format and go back to what was working very well and expand upon the 8.5 program which worked. Everybody deserves a mulligan. Look at Windows Me.
I disagree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion. This is clearly directed at Cakewalk to get a rise out of us, which is why I personally have a hard time contributing. I don't get the hostility. It's what makes supporting people on here difficult. Seth, myself and other X1 users only came here to help. Perhaps start a new thread since this comment isn't really helpful for anyone?
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Guitarpima
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 14:03:07
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To be fair Ryan, I believe it may be the new Octa-Capture update that is the culprit. As far as plug-ins, I'm either using IK, Nomad Factory, Line 6 and stock plugs. I use a tape plug. Reel tape from Tone Boosters IMSM.
I just had a crash and had to end the bitbridge process, restart my OC and then Sonar started up. Usually I ned up having to restart the computer. Now that I know I can create the crash dumps, I'll be sending them.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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John
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 14:08:42
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This is clearly directed at Cakewalk to get a rise out of us, which is why I personally have a hard time contributing. I don't get the hostility. It's what makes supporting people on here difficult. Seth, myself and other X1 users only came here to help. Perhaps start a new thread since this comment isn't really helpful for anyone? Don't let it get to you. You may or may not know how often we get this stuff aimed at many of us. At least you haven't been called a fanboy or a company shill. LOL Also if you take a look around at other forums you'll notice its often far worse in those then it ever gets here. By and large we are a pretty decent forum. I also think we are getting a great bunch of new members. There will always be some that come here only to complain. We try to handle it as best we can but it really depends on the posters themselves. I do like the attitude of CW with a sort of low profile here and the hands off behavior unless its very necessary to get involved. We all appreciate any CW person contributing to the forum and I for one listen to any thing they offer. Just don't let a single post get you down.
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 14:36:51
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Guitarpima
To be fair Ryan, I believe it may be the new Octa-Capture update that is the culprit. As far as plug-ins, I'm either using IK, Nomad Factory, Line 6 and stock plugs. I use a tape plug. Reel tape from Tone Boosters IMSM.
If it's related to the IK plug-ins it should be pretty obvious from the .dmp files. FYI for everyone, if we collect a large number of crash files from a specific third-party plug-in, we will follow up accordingly with the developers. If we see a trend like this we'll also go in and let you know it's third party related on a report you've submitted. I just had a crash and had to end the bitbridge process, restart my OC and then Sonar started up. Usually I ned up having to restart the computer. Now that I know I can create the crash dumps, I'll be sending them.
I hope it's not OC related! I have an OCTA-CAPTURE at home at the moment. I'll beat on it a bit to see what I experience with the latest updates but I haven't seen any direct reports of this as of yet. By the way, if you experience a crash like this, try going into your Device Manager and then disabling/enabling the OCTA-CAPTURE. Typically if a process is hanging like that (SONAR, Bitbridge, etc.) then the drivers aren't getting released properly. This happens occasionally with the UA-101 and VS-700 I have as well (especially when I'm testing crashes for people). Rather than restart my entire computer, I usually just disable and then re-enable the drivers from the Windows Device Manager. It forces the process to release them. At that point, when you re-launch SONAR it should locate them. If that doesn't do it then a restart (as you noted) should. John
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By and large we are a pretty decent forum. I also think we are getting a great bunch of new members. There will always be some that come here only to complain. We try to handle it as best we can but it really depends on the posters themselves.
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Just don't let a single post get you down.
I definitely agree! Sorry if I came across wrong. You guys are great and the help you give is invaluable in so many cases. Without our community and loyal customers, who are we at Cakewalk? I've made quite a large number of friends from Cakewalk phones, email and forums. Don't worry, it takes more than a single challenging email/post/conversation to get me down. One thing's for sure, even when just reading completely off-topic posts (click at own risk), you guys are definitely never a letdown.
By the way, back on topic. I'm researching a crash scenario with Amp Sim. It occasionally is crashing for me upon first insertion. After that, it's fine. I'll update you guys if/when I figure out more. I've only run into it with Amp Sim personally.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 16:52:33
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THERE ARE NOW ONLY 3 AUDIO EFFECTS THAT ARE FREEZING THE SYSTEM: FX2 Amp Sim, FX2 Tape Sim, and z3ta+ fx2. Isn't this great?! You can ALMOST use Sonar like a stable program! I wouldn't waste too much time/energy getting frustrated on minuteau.  In all seriousness, two of the three you're talking about are older "legacy" plugins. You can find newer "better" (IMO) substitutes. If you're using an Echo PCI audio interface with a new generation motherboard, you may be encountering a problem with the PCI bridge chip. This is common with many current generation motherboards.
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HeatherHaze
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 20:33:13
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I say dump the X1 format and go back to what was working very well and expand upon the 8.5 program which worked. Everybody deserves a mulligan. Look at Windows Me. There's nothing preventing you from sticking with 8.5. It was a good stable platform for many people, from what I've heard. Just because the current version is X1 doesn't mean you can't use 8.5 for years to come, if you prefer. It's still a solid build and will remain viable for quite some time. I didn't get to play with 8.5 but I did briefly have 8.3 installed before upgrading to X1 (it shipped with my VS-700. I honestly didn't care for it. My previous version was Sonar 4 PE and I was a bit befuddled by the lack of any serious design improvements. Sure, there were new features, lots of great extras, and some workflow enhancements...but there were also things that felt like a step backwards to me. The interface, for example, felt less attractive and inspiring than 4. But from the moment I started X1, I finally felt like Sonar had evolved. This was a truly worthy upgrade. I know from reading the forum there have been some glitches and gotchas here and there. It seems to me, however, that these growing pains are well worth the major step forward in technology. X1 "feels" better. It is amazingly flexible. Instead of adapting to the way my DAW works, I can make the DAW adapt to the way I work. I've used dual monitors for ages (and I'll never stop) but with X1 I can do more on a single screen then ever before, releasing my second display for convenience features like keeping my synths open, or full screen video when scoring. The ProChannel is brilliant and a huge time-saver. The Browser has made managing plug-ins, loops and synths SO much easier, all in one spot. I was skeptical about the universal "smart tool" but in practice it has proven really convenient. There are many delightful improvements. There's a learning curve, as in some ways it's a whole new DAW. But beneath the surface it's still Sonar, so I can usually figure out how to get things done one way or another while learning new, better techniques. As for the stability issues...I honestly haven't had much trouble, beyond a few minor quirks. And I am 100% confident Cakewalk will continue tweaking until X1 is rock solid. In any case, I'm definitely not in favor of "dumping" X1. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. But I'm sure I'm not alone in saying, "don't look back." Tally ho, X1! :)
)-|-( HeatherHaze http://heatherhaze.com/ "This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before." ~ Leonard Bernstein Cakewalk by Bandlab Studio One 3.5, Cubase 9.5 Intel Core i7 8700, 32Gb RAM Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 V-Studio VS-700 Slate Raven MTi2 Windows 10 Professional 64-bit ...and a whole bunch of other stuff.
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Bub 
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/30 21:47:47
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HeatherHaze
My previous version was Sonar 4 PE ...
I used S4PE with an Intel P4 on a true Intel mobo with 2GB RAM and 1 HDD. I think we had, maybe, 3 crashes, and they were all related to pushing the system too hard and had nothing to do with Sonar. I do remember there was something visually about S4PE that was a bit more pleasing. I think it had larger text fonts and were easier to see or something like that. It's been a long time. :)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Michael Five
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/31 00:32:10
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papabear, I feel your pain, I really do. I also come from the school where software should work perfectly in the environment for which it was designed. As a developer, this is perfectly do-able - I have done it, and so have many others.
HOWEVER: Here's the catch - 'in the environment for which it was designed'. As a software guy, I can promise you that developing stable, uber-reliable software in an environment where there are nearly an endless number of possible combinations of chips, cards, drivers, and plugs all from all kinds of different vendors is an unachievable panacea.
This is because insuring that it is going to work in every scenario means it has to be tested in every scenario. When you are writing low-level code that ties together all kinds of different stuff from many different times and places, all outside your purview, that's an impossible scenario to test for once, much less regression test, i,e, test the effects in every scenario for every change you ever make to the program. The digidesign approach is the only way to even approach reliability - only support specific configurations on specific hardware - protools on macs with digi interfaces. That's closer to an achievable scenario, but it's still a tall order, as any PT user should tell you, they have bugs too.
Cake is working in an environment - windows PC's - that they simply don't control enough of to ever achieve the level of reliability you seek. The benefit of that is that professional DAW functionality is made available to a much, much wider audience than those who could, back in the day, afford PTHD. The downside is that we have to take a larger role in the stability of our own systems. While anybody can use Sonar, on all kinds of systems, it's my belief that a very stable setup requires a lot of technical know-how and some persistence as well.
I have a pretty high-end system (at the time I got it), custom built, with nary a budget component anywhere in the chassis, every part known to work well in DAWs, and it still took me several weeks and some card swaps to get it really solid. Seems all the parts didn't want to work well together. I learned two things in the process - it really is your system, most of the time, with these hard to duplicate problems, and that the best results with a Windows-based DAW are gonna come when you get guys like Jim or Scott to build them for you, or at least pay for their advice in advance of doing anything else. I didn't last time, what with my big head and all, but I will next time.
It kinda sucks that one has to make that kind of investment to get a really stable system. To be sure, you can manage it for less on your own. I eventually did, but I have techie skills and lots of persistence (and still needed help). Other folks here do it as well. A lot of others try and also have problems as you (and I) can attest.
In the end, though, it isn't fair to blame Cake. While their software process does leave some things to be desired, in my opinion, their product is still extremely functional and pretty reliable on a professional hardware setup. Expecting it to work perfectly, though, given the nature of the DAW beast, on every possible Windows configuration is simply not realistic in my opinion.
_______________________________________________ X1c, p35 6600 Quad OC@3Ghz, FF400, Saffire 6, IBM T42, UAD-1, Superior 2.0
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/31 14:47:23
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Hey Guys,
Brief update for anyone following along since I said I'd check in and its no fair for you guys to try to help as well but not hear anything back. PapaBear/Eugene sent over some great info which clears things up a bit for me.
Issue 1)
We got some screencasts of his Splash screen on launch and things look smooth as butter when being viewed from over here. It seems like the framerate being output to his monitor while SONAR is launching just isn't jiving with his monitor's refresh rate. This is my personal theory at least. Things I'd check:
- Cables (DVI/VGA/HDMI)
- Adapters (DVI-VGA etc.). Any broken pins?
- Screen refresh settings in Windows advanced Display settings (50 Hz versus 60 Hz, 75 Hz etc.)
- Refresh rate settings on the monitor itself if available (50 Hz versus 60 Hz, 75 Hz etc.)
- New monitor? Steal one from your kid/friend/boss? (seems extreme for just a flickering splash screen)
Issue 2)
Amp Sim and FX2 Tape Sim crashing on insertion are identical crashes. It's not the plug-ins themselves, but rather how they're being drawn. I replicated it myself internally a few times and created an internal bug report for it.
It's very inconsistent for me... 99% of the time they insert perfectly fine. I suggested some tests and hopefully we'll hear back with more news. I haven't been able to replicate it with setting my system to the Windows Classic theme and restarting my computer. Not sure if it's 100%, but so far for me it hasn't crashed under this scenario. These plug-ins are a bit dated so I'm not personally shocked to see they occasionally aren't drawing properly in Windows 7. In any case, it's in the fault report system.
Issue 3)
In regards to z3ta+ fx2 not processing audio when inserted on the FX bin of an Audio Track, this is completely normal. In order for z3ta+ fx2 to process audio, a few things must happen which differs between hosts. In SONAR:
- In the VST Options for z3ta+ fx2, under Plug-in Properties, make sure "Configure as synth" is selected. This will not be selected by default, so you will need to do it from the plug-in itself or from the Cakewalk Plug-in Manager. Afterwards, if the plug-in is already inserted onto the FX Bin of your audio track you will want to remove it and then add it again.
- Once configured as synth, place it into the FX Bin of an audio track. It is important to make sure that the audio track actually has some audio material to process
- Create a MIDI track and assign the output of that MIDI track to "z3ta+ fx2"
- Perform some material live during playback or enter some MIDI data onto the track
At this point, the audio should be filtered through z3ta+ fx2 along with the MIDI performance. If you're unsure, just adjust the filter cutoff. You'll hear it immediately.
Best regards,
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Guitarpima
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/05/31 22:10:13
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@ Ryan
I have a dmp file now but it's a 1.4gb file. How do I send that?
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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PapaBear
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/01 20:52:20
(permalink)
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk
]
Hey Guys,
Brief update for anyone following along since I said I'd check in and its no fair for you guys to try to help as well but not hear anything back. PapaBear/Eugene sent over some great info which clears things up a bit for me.
Issue 1)
We got some screencasts of his Splash screen on launch and things look smooth as butter when being viewed from over here. It seems like the framerate being output to his monitor while SONAR is launching just isn't jiving with his monitor's refresh rate. This is my personal theory at least. Things I'd check:
- Cables (DVI/VGA/HDMI)
- Adapters (DVI-VGA etc.). Any broken pins?
- Screen refresh settings in Windows advanced Display settings (50 Hz versus 60 Hz, 75 Hz etc.)
- Refresh rate settings on the monitor itself if available (50 Hz versus 60 Hz, 75 Hz etc.)
- New monitor? Steal one from your kid/friend/boss? (seems extreme for just a flickering splash screen)
Issue 2)
Amp Sim and FX2 Tape Sim crashing on insertion are identical crashes. It's not the plug-ins themselves, but rather how they're being drawn. I replicated it myself internally a few times and created an internal bug report for it.
It's very inconsistent for me... 99% of the time they insert perfectly fine. I suggested some tests and hopefully we'll hear back with more news. I haven't been able to replicate it with setting my system to the Windows Classic theme and restarting my computer. Not sure if it's 100%, but so far for me it hasn't crashed under this scenario. These plug-ins are a bit dated so I'm not personally shocked to see they occasionally aren't drawing properly in Windows 7. In any case, it's in the fault report system.
Issue 3)
In regards to z3ta+ fx2 not processing audio when inserted on the FX bin of an Audio Track, this is completely normal. In order for z3ta+ fx2 to process audio, a few things must happen which differs between hosts. In SONAR:
- In the VST Options for z3ta+ fx2, under Plug-in Properties, make sure "Configure as synth" is selected. This will not be selected by default, so you will need to do it from the plug-in itself or from the Cakewalk Plug-in Manager. Afterwards, if the plug-in is already inserted onto the FX Bin of your audio track you will want to remove it and then add it again.
- Once configured as synth, place it into the FX Bin of an audio track. It is important to make sure that the audio track actually has some audio material to process
- Create a MIDI track and assign the output of that MIDI track to "z3ta+ fx2"
- Perform some material live during playback or enter some MIDI data onto the track
At this point, the audio should be filtered through z3ta+ fx2 along with the MIDI performance. If you're unsure, just adjust the filter cutoff. You'll hear it immediately.
Best regards,
I apologize for the delay in updating you all (from my perspective) in regard to the problems I reported, as many suggested here, to CW Technical Support, and the answers I received from them, but I wanted to make sure first that everything was at least double-checked before I am writing it down, and that there is no difference between what I am posting here and what I wrote to CW Technical Support. Issue 1) I recorded two videos (using Jing) of SONAR launching (loading/opening) on my computer: one of them without the Quick Start activated, the other one with Quick Start activated. Both are clearly showing the flash/flicker I reported. I’ve sent the two .swf to CW Technical Support (in a package of over 1GB, together with other files they requested from me), only to read yesterday, on this forum, that for Mr. Munnis “things look smooth as butter when being viewed from over here”. I therefore played back the two videos on five different computers connected to five different monitors since then. Without exception, the flash/flicker showed up on each system every time I played back the two files and I am not at all surprised: a recording is a recording, it could sound/look better or worse on different systems but if it contains, let’s say, an interruption you will hear/see it no matter what. At this point, after watching the two videos with the same result on a total of six different systems (I included my own), I am really wondering if there is nothing wrong with the computer used by CW Technical Support. However, I checked everything they suggested to check: 1. I replaced the cable in between the computer (DVI) and monitor (DVI) with a new one: it didn’t make any difference. 2. I don’t use any adapter. However, I checked the pins of connectors and I discovered that none is broken. 3. My monitor (Dell 2007FP) is automatically choosing the correct refresh rate settings for 1600x1200. 4. For their fourth suggestion, please, see the answer at 3. 5. I connected the computer to another monitor and I obtained the same result: a flash/flicker when loading SONAR. Also, if this monitor performs without any problems for every program I have, as it does, and the only time when a flash/flicker is present is when launching SONAR, should one suspect the monitor or the program? From my point of view, this looks like a problem CW Technical Support cannot solve (and, for some reasons, doesn’t want even to acknowledge). Issue 2) Amp Sim and FX2 Tape Sim are crashing on insertion no matter what and it is little relief in the fact that CW Technical Support discovered that these are “identical crashes”. I tried the tests suggested by them: SONAR “not responding” every time. I understand that these are older plug-ins, but they are packed in the latest version of the program so one expects them to still work. From my point of view, this looks like the second problem CW Technical Support cannot solve. Issue 3) (Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t remember being told before that I have to follow this procedure in order to make the z3ta+ fx2 work in Audio Effects). However, I did what they said it should be done and chose “Configure as synth” under Plug-in Properties. Once I did that, z3ta+ fx2 disappeared from Audio FX/Synths as FX list, and moved to VST Instruments. Obviously, I didn’t have any more what to insert in the FX Bin of the audio track. So this becomes, from my point of view, the third problem CW Technical Support cannot solve. Now some of you will understand maybe why I was reluctant in calling them for help. Anyway, to answer my own question asked when I started this thread: enough is enough! The way things are, one should just remove the Amp Sim and FX2 Tape Sim, forget about z3ta+ fx2 and, in my case, look also at something else, not at the monitor, when SONAR is launching. I am ready to conclude this post, but before doing that, I have to confess that I feel like one who complains about a very specific problem, provides evidence sustaining his complaint, and receives one of those letters: “Thank you for showing interest in our company and our products. Be assured that our highly trained staff is always interested in any question or suggestion our customers have. We value your opinion and we are always here to help.” Really? Thank you all and special thanks to Cakewalk Technical Support!
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Stone House Studios
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/01 21:25:23
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Just because this looks interesting:
2) I believe Ryan said he submitted as an internal bug report. Just because Tech support can't fix, doesn't mean it's not being looked at.
3) Just tried it. Configured it as a synth, inserted in FX bin of audio track. What didn't you see/get?
Brian
Core i7-6700@3.40Ghz Windows 10x64 16 GB RAM Sonar Platinum/Studio One PreSonus Studio 192
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chuckebaby
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/01 21:43:03
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that plug in is so old,im not sure why you are killing yourself,why not use another plug in?
as far as the refresh rate on your monitor.im not sure why you would be experiencing this and not the bulk of everyone else?
could be a defective copy?
i highly doubt it,but possible maybe?
was it a download from the cake store?
just my two cent here,i do hope you get this worked out but it seems like a lot of work for the old plug in.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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g_randybrown
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/01 22:01:06
(permalink)
I have not had cause to call CW very often but I did a very few times over the years. Each time the person I talked to was extremely helpful.
I'd just like to add that the very few times that my issue wasn't resolved here on the forum and I had to call in (1 or 2 out of a hundred maybe) I was talking to a real live, knowledegable, tech support person within a few minutes every single time ....and the issues were resolved ....every single time.
I just don't understand the complaints about CW support.
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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HeatherHaze
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/01 23:05:59
(permalink)
Now some of you will understand maybe why I was reluctant in calling them for help.
No, but now I understand why they might be less than thrilled to help you. Every post it seems like you're ranting about how terrible Cakewalk support is; "they don't care," "they can't fix it," "they won't acknowledge the problem." Based on the responses you've gotten here, however, it seems that they DO care, ARE trying to help and certainly aren't ignoring you. If anything, they've been extraordinarily patient with someone who keeps insulting them. Hey, I understand you're frustrated. I would be too. But just endlessly blaming Cakewalk for what is obviously a rare issue (NOBODY else on this forum seems to be having it)...is a little counter productive and certainly no way to inspire anyone to go out of their way for you. Complex, odd, difficult to replicate problems take some time to fix. It doesn't matter who you are or how good you are. I've done plenty of tech support in my time and trust me, this is no more fun for them than it is for you. All I'm saying is you might get better results if you take a deep breath, remind yourself you're dealing with real human beings and try to stay patient while working through the problems in a logical, step by step manner. There IS a solution. Eventually somebody will figure it out. In the meantime, it doesn't sound like you're dead in the water. Right? You can still use 99% of the software. Just work around the issue until you get it resolved. Then share the solution for posterity.
)-|-( HeatherHaze http://heatherhaze.com/ "This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before." ~ Leonard Bernstein Cakewalk by Bandlab Studio One 3.5, Cubase 9.5 Intel Core i7 8700, 32Gb RAM Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 V-Studio VS-700 Slate Raven MTi2 Windows 10 Professional 64-bit ...and a whole bunch of other stuff.
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Michael Five
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/02 00:34:20
(permalink)
papa bear do you have a power conditioner? And have you changed monitors in response to the flickering?
_______________________________________________ X1c, p35 6600 Quad OC@3Ghz, FF400, Saffire 6, IBM T42, UAD-1, Superior 2.0
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chuckebaby
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/02 02:37:21
(permalink)
HeatherHaze
Now some of you will understand maybe why I was reluctant in calling them for help.
No, but now I understand why they might be less than thrilled to help you.
Every post it seems like you're ranting about how terrible Cakewalk support is; "they don't care," "they can't fix it," "they won't acknowledge the problem." Based on the responses you've gotten here, however, it seems that they DO care, ARE trying to help and certainly aren't ignoring you. If anything, they've been extraordinarily patient with someone who keeps insulting them.
Hey, I understand you're frustrated. I would be too. But just endlessly blaming Cakewalk for what is obviously a rare issue (NOBODY else on this forum seems to be having it)...is a little counter productive and certainly no way to inspire anyone to go out of their way for you. Complex, odd, difficult to replicate problems take some time to fix. It doesn't matter who you are or how good you are. I've done plenty of tech support in my time and trust me, this is no more fun for them than it is for you.
All I'm saying is you might get better results if you take a deep breath, remind yourself you're dealing with real human beings and try to stay patient while working through the problems in a logical, step by step manner.
There IS a solution. Eventually somebody will figure it out. In the meantime, it doesn't sound like you're dead in the water. Right? You can still use 99% of the software. Just work around the issue until you get it resolved. Then share the solution for posterity.
+1 right on,good post.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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A1MixMan
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/02 03:53:54
(permalink)
I just tried FX2 Tape Sim and Amp Sim at the same time on the same track and both work fine.
I loaded z3ta+ fx2 on the same track and I get no sound, but everything still works fine when I delete it.
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Bub
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/02 13:05:12
(permalink)
.
post edited by Bub - 2012/06/02 14:57:31
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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chuckebaby
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/02 13:26:30
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i dont agree with you, but like anything else you post here in this forum,i respect your opinion. and if you look at it from a business perspective,if you owned a company,and one or two people were experincing a problem what would you do? i think ryan has looked into it and posted a lenthy post offering solutions that this guy doesnt want to hear. i can think of three things off the top of my head that arent working as they probably should in x1 but im not going to make it this months priority to start threads and say,hey,whats going on? and if i did start a thread and feed back was small.like alomst no one experiencing the same? id start to look in other areas. so we are back to the,hey,why is it working for almost everyone else and not him deal? what do we do with people like that? well we try and help them as much as we can by giving them solutions,but if we dont have anymore(if im cake) what else do we do?are we then looked at as the bad guy,because we sold something that works on 90% of the computers out there? i think what im saying is,we cant please everyone all the time. as far as the techs saying "we have no problem unless its on our end,well,cant argue with you there man. all i can say is,what are they supposed to do in situations like that? im not sure man? ask for a dump and mull it over. i guess. either way bub,i listen to every post you write cause you know how much i respect your opinion and as a person. 
post edited by chuckebaby - 2012/06/02 13:41:41
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/02 13:34:20
(permalink)
PapaBear,
I sent a direct reply to you. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my intentions. I guarantee you they were good. I don't think I'm understanding your flickering problem properly. That doesn't mean I'm denying a problem exists. I'm still investigating the Amp Sim issue which I wasn't able to figure out on my first try. As far as z3ta+ fx2 goes, I failed to mention it moves from the category of "audio effect" to "soft synth". So when it does that, you have to insert it as a "soft synth" but onto the FX bin of the audio track still.
Bub,
That's completely unfair and untrue. I acknowledged many of your issues, logged many of them, directly acknowledged this publicly multiple times on the forums, and even worked directly with developers to get many of them fixed. Just because there might be corner case scenarios that still exist doesn't mean I ever denied your issues (I've said this directly and publicly repeatedly). As I said countless times in other threads, I was just trying to collect further information from you so I could log a good bug report so we could get it resolved. I never denied anything and I'm not sure I saw any other Cakewalk staff doing the same.
To everyone else:
I'm going to retire from this thread since it's turning into a support versus customer thread. Surely I'm being misunderstood here and I was honestly just trying to help. Regardless, I'll still continue to look into these issues because I always do that, regardless of if I post public status updates in regards to progress I've been able to make with customers and other issues I look at from day to day.
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Stone House Studios
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/02 13:47:52
(permalink)
'Cause it's there, and it was sold to him as a working plug-in? Doh! That Cakewalk Amp Sim is a great sounding plug. Especially if you run your guitar through a tube pre and comp before going in to it. I've actually been using it more than Guitar Rig 4 lately. I slap it on a track along with the Sonitus Delay, Modulator, and Reverb. Sounds really really good. That last song I posted, "Strange Instrumental", was done with just the Amp Sim. And it sucks up significantly less resources than GR4. So, you're saying that it works and doesn't crash your system every time you try to insert it? So does it work or doesn't it? I know. Cakewalk sold you a different X1 than they sold to others. That's why your ProChannel is quirky! The OP got the good ProChannel, but the buggy Amp Sim. The secret must lie in the flickering splash screen. I can't wait til I discover my individual bug! I sure wish they would sell us all the same product! Brian
Core i7-6700@3.40Ghz Windows 10x64 16 GB RAM Sonar Platinum/Studio One PreSonus Studio 192
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Bub
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Re:How much is enough?
2012/06/02 14:59:30
(permalink)
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Bub,
That's completely unfair and untrue. I acknowledged many of your issues, logged many of them, directly acknowledged this publicly multiple times on the forums, and even worked directly with developers to get many of them fixed.
Sorry Ryan, my mistake. I removed my post as it was very inaccurate. Thanks, Bub
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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