Helpful ReplyI HATE take lanes.

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Andrzej Salm
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2018/05/11 15:48:41 (permalink)

I HATE take lanes.

Just a quick post to let the world know how much I hate working with take lanes. I get frustrated every time I edit a track.
Clips go missing all the time. Flattening a comp and moving the clip in the parental track moves the comp only and the take lanes stay in place for some strange reason... what a mess.
What a stupid idea that was. I wish I never moved on from Sonar 6.
 

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#1
jude77
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 15:59:38 (permalink)
I'm not trying to be a smart-alec, but if you don't like take lanes then just don't use them.  Assuming you're working on Bandlab's version of SONAR I think you'll find it's heads and shoulders above 6.  It takes some adjustment to make a jump that large, but once you do you'll never look back.
 
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#2
35mm
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 16:03:10 (permalink)
Stick with it and it gets easier.
 
 
I've never had clips just go missing so can't help with that one.
 
If you want to move a comp to another track without also copying all the takes, then don't drag the main track clip. Instead, open the take lanes and drag the top comp clip.

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sven450
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 16:03:57 (permalink)
I was in the same boat, then I watched a vid (sorry, no link) on how to properly use them with the tools available.  With a little practice, I love them now.  Can comp a vocal in just a couple minutes.  Keep at it, use the tools and embrace the power!

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#4
J-War
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 16:59:01 (permalink)
Take lanes are plagued with a fair amount of bugs, it has been reported several times, but no improvement until now unfortunately ! :(
 
Here is what i posted on the " Feature Requests + Improvements [New 29/3/2018] " thread which is in stricker on the top of the sonar forums :
 
Dear Devs, fixing the various " Take lines erratic behaviours bugs " that have plagued lots of Sonar users for a long time, should be considered as a priority task.
 
Those bugs send a quite unprofessionnal image to users and customers. Through times, I personaly saw many people switching to other DAWS because those erratic behaviours make us loose a lots of time during editing sessions !

- Applying crossfades manualy on clips is quite painful because of the various erratic positionning bugs.
You have to retry X times, zoom excessively and move things again numerous times to have your crossfades start and end exactly where you want...
(Because of that, editing clips enveloppes manualy is sometimes almost faster than using crossfades and way more reliable. (Although there are nodes editing bugs from time to time but well...))

- There are various copy / paste bugs that occur on the take lines. Those have been reported numerous time... From things getting pasted where you don't want to, comping mode randomly not working as expected, sound on sound mode neither...

Those are quite basic functions, you won't experience such editing bugs on Protools for examples nor on any other major DAWS.

Bandlab Sonar is a fresh start... To have us realy enjoy that new Sonar on a more professional level, i think it starts here : bugs correction on main editing functions for a stable and professionnal Sonar behavior.
 
Anyway, yhanks for your time and efforts.

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wetdentist
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 17:08:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jude77 2018/05/11 22:28:52
i comp without using Take Lanes (because i've had the problem with lost audio) and instead just use normal audio tracks for my 'takes' & this works great for me.

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#6
davehorch
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 18:36:44 (permalink)
+1 to what the dentist said. ^^
 
I rarely use Take Lanes, I'll just Duplicate the Track, unchecking "duplicate events".

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reginaldStjohn
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 18:39:12 (permalink)
I love the take lanes idea and use them quite a bit. However, I do have them crop up with bugs quite often so they can be frustrating.

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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 18:54:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jude77 2018/05/11 22:29:07
Tried a few times and gave up. Just do it the way I did it in Sonar 7. I record a few takes each in it's own audio track and cut/ copy/ paste. 

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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 19:51:28 (permalink)
I like the idea of take lanes, but I hate the copy/paste bugs. Most annoying is when I sometimes COPY a clip and paste it to another lane then it disappears in the original lane, maybe even out of view so that I don't notice it.
 
Right! You ask why I copy a clip from one lane to another? That's because another problem that I have with loop recording: When you stop loop recording all clips in the take lanes get split at the stop point. And this is really nonsense IMHO. I guess most users rather want the splitting at the loop start/end positions, i.e. there is no splitting within the take lanes after recording.

... many years before ...
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Andrzej Salm
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 19:57:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby olemon 2018/05/12 13:24:22
marled
I like the idea of take lanes, but I hate the copy/paste bugs. Most annoying is when I sometimes COPY a clip and paste it to another lane then it disappears in the original lane, maybe even out of view so that I don't notice it.
 
Right! You ask why I copy a clip from one lane to another? That's because another problem that I have with loop recording: When you stop loop recording all clips in the take lanes get split at the stop point. And this is really nonsense IMHO. I guess most users rather want the splitting at the loop start/end positions, i.e. there is no splitting within the take lanes after recording.


This one is actually easy to fix: change record mode to "sound on sound". No clip splitting anymore

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Andrzej Salm
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 20:12:19 (permalink)
Another irrational behavior:
I recorded a few takes in a loop, promoted take 4 to parental track. Closed take lane view and in the track view i moved the clip let's say 4 measures forward. Only take 4 track lane got moved. The rest of them stayed in the original place. So, now I have two clips in the parental track, one is greyed out... If I decide that take 3 will be better in the new place, well, tough luck because take 3 stayed in original position.
All take lanes should be moved or copied with the parental clip.
This is a horrible mess.
 

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Andrzej Salm
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/11 20:30:38 (permalink)
wetdentist
i comp without using Take Lanes (because i've had the problem with lost audio) and instead just use normal audio tracks for my 'takes' & this works great for me.


This is what I started doing today. I ticked "store takes in separate tracks" and now am good to go. I don't want to click even once on a take lane button ever again.

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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/12 04:07:23 (permalink)
I have trouble with take lanes also.  I've tried a bunch of times to get use to it, but I can't.  Even in another DAW (Cubase) I had the same issues. Same concept.
 
So now when I get into a recording situation where tracks are getting out of control and I have to go to using take lanes, once I finish recording I will create a clean track and move takes to the clean track.  I do this by highlighting the clip/take I want to keep that is in the lane (not trying to make the good take the "prefered" track) then control +alt will copy the clip and keep it in the correct place in the timeline and drop it into the new clean track.  Once I'm done with that I can breath a sigh of relief and get back work.  I hide the track with all the takes and keep it in-case, but hope that I never need to see it again....  
 

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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/12 08:27:37 (permalink)
I've never had any real difficulties while working with take lanes. However I have seen some weird behaviour with clips that have been created inside take lanes and subsequently moved to other tracks. When nudging these clips (using the numeric keypad) over other clips, they behave like Pacman and eat up the clips that they pass over.

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wetdentist
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/12 11:41:50 (permalink)
Andrzej Salm
wetdentist
i comp without using Take Lanes (because i've had the problem with lost audio) and instead just use normal audio tracks for my 'takes' & this works great for me.


This is what I started doing today. I ticked "store takes in separate tracks" and now am good to go. I don't want to click even once on a take lane button ever again.


 
yup that's exactly how i do it.  works like a charm & with no worries

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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/12 13:33:25 (permalink)
I hate them too.  I've watched tutorials on them and read instructions on them and still can't get them figured out. 
I just do it the old fashioned way as several others have previously mentioned. 
 

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#17
olemon
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/12 14:10:27 (permalink)
There are several threads on Take Lanes.  It was frustrating and confusing when I first tried to use them.  My biggest headache was when stopping the Loop somewhere within the Loop, and all the previous clips were split/duplicated, I'd end up with clip chaos.  Then I discovered that those split clips could be deleted and that the original clip would remain in tact - slip edit reveals the original.  I haven't tried the Sound on Sound option.
 
I primarily use Take Lanes for vocals and sometimes I use different tracks for different sections, Verse 1, Chorus 1, and so on.  But if the vocal sections have enough space between them such that I can loop song sections without overlap and more 'clip chaos,' I might record all the takes on a single track...it all depends.
 
Then what I usually do is I get rid of the split clips, duplicate that original track, mute/hide it to preserve the raw vocals and just work on the duplicate.  I then go through those takes, split clips as needed and copy/promote the clips I want to a new Take Lane muting all the other clips as I go (eventually I delete them).  Once I have a comp'd vocal consisting of those selected clips, I might apply a little Melodyne Region FX, Bounce to Clip, apply fades, etc.

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Bash von Gitfiddle
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/12 14:51:40 (permalink)
Cakewalk's introduction of take lanes demonstrated two things to me.
 
1) Cakewalk's internal culture had become incapable of recognizing that SONAR's innovative Layer system was superior to other vendors take lanes methodologies. It became evident that Cakewalk had come under the influence of interests that did not appreciate what made SONAR the choice of those who realized why SONAR was unique and special. 
 
2) Cakewalk's implementation of take lanes exemplified Cakewalk's adoption of a "wannabee" copy cat sense of imagination that was further crippled by the inability to execute the borrowed ideas to a standard that had already been defined by the competitors, which were ironically never as innovative, imaginative, and informed as the original Cakewalk culture had proven to be.
 
 
An insistence that Take Lanes were evolutionary suggested to me that Cakewalk was no longer able to qualify itself as a company that understood the value of its products, or understood how its decisions would effect its business.
 
I still use SONAR 8.5 for takes and comping, and I am learning how to use REAPER's relatively awkward take lanes system in anticipation of having to someday surrender the ability to enjoy the exemplary ease and flexibility of SONAR's legacy Layer's features. 
 
 


#19
jpetersen
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/13 10:16:50 (permalink)
It seems the hard-to-reproduce "Slivers" bug appeared when Take Lanes were introduced.
 
"Slivers" are those bits of clips that break off when overlapping clips are later moved apart again.
People report pops and when they zoom right in, they find these thin clip slivers.
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gswitz
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/13 10:44:48 (permalink)
I'm a lonely liker of take lanes.

When things split in a way i don't like, a bottom half swipe fixes it.

I usually keep playing until i get a take i like, but sometimes after hours off practice, my best take gets bungled for a bar.

So, zip zip, i replace the bar with one from my 72 previous takes.

Loop recording is reserved mostly for people I'm rushing through the session. I don't do much of it unless you count looping the tune.

Before i got an ssd, i had to delete takes rather quickly to avoid io related drop outs. Now they pile up to the sky. An interesting measure of practice time.

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Grem
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/13 12:58:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2018/05/14 12:31:35
gswitz
 
I'm a lonely liker of take lanes.




No your not. I love CW comping feature. I can do as many takes of vocals, guitar, whatever I want, then go back and (here is the key word) QUICKLY comp a section, or a whole song.
 
A lot of the frustration of take lanes is really a misunderstanding of how/why they work the way they do. Example, when loop recording, just have a few bars before the recording starts and a few after the recording stops selected and loop that! CW is one of the only DAW's that I know of that has separate Loop Recording and Loop Playback.
 
Is Take Lanes/Comping with out bugs? Certainly not. But do these bugs make this great and innovative feature unusable? That's a big Heck No!
 
My suggestions, if you want to edit a comped trk like you would any other trk, Flatten your comp (not collapse. Two different things) then copy and paste the comped trk to another trk and edit till your heart's content.

Grem

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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/13 13:23:46 (permalink)
I use take lanes. I record whatever number of takes I need in a track named something like "solo_draft", then split all the takes in the exact same place when possible (at natural breaks, often only couple bars long). I then copy-drag the best of these little individual take sections into a new regular audio track (without lanes) which I usually name something like "solo_aggregate". At that point I abandon and archive the "draft" take and use the "aggregate" track thereafter. 

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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/14 01:37:50 (permalink)
rbecker
I use take lanes. I record whatever number of takes I need in a track named something like "solo_draft", then split all the takes in the exact same place when possible (at natural breaks, often only couple bars long). I then copy-drag the best of these little individual take sections into a new regular audio track (without lanes) which I usually name something like "solo_aggregate". At that point I abandon and archive the "draft" take and use the "aggregate" track thereafter. 

 
^this. Best method I've found. All the pros of take lanes ( speed comping, quick auditioning of options) but the stability of a new fresh audio track with just the clips needed. This new track is where I clean up, finalize fades, Melodyne then call it done.
 
Beauty of this method is if a client wants to reach back into the archive and search for different options on certain lines ( or look for doubles) you just open up that archive, audition things, pull what's needed and re-archive.
Only when a song is really done will I delete the "take archive". Fast and efficient.
My vocal comping time is literally cut in half to what it was several years ago.
 

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#24
eve_ripper
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/14 11:47:48 (permalink)
I'm trying to deal with takes. Example: recording bass guitar with one DI signal + parallel Sansamp signal. After recording few takes it's a headache to comp my takes well and do some quantising stuff. In Reaper I usually group tracks that I will comp and quantise later. And then I do stretching for kick drum and snare drum. Others tracks moving automatically and that is very simple.
#25
John T
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/14 23:29:19 (permalink)
Yeah, comping anything with multiple input sources is tricky. I'd like to see that built out as a feature. Take lanes as they currently stand work really well for single mic stuff. But I'd like to be able to comp different takes of say, 8-12 mics on drums just as simply. Possibly, this is something of a niche requirement, though.

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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/14 23:30:22 (permalink)
Grem
gswitz
 
I'm a lonely liker of take lanes.




No your not. I love CW comping feature.

Yeah, me too. I can think of ways it could be expanded, but I can't find anything to dislike about it.

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#27
amiller
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/15 02:06:13 (permalink)
I love take lanes. I couldn’t work without them.

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#28
Anderton
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/15 20:24:27 (permalink)
I'm a big fan of speed comping, which requires Take Lanes. However I do them simply and "by the book." I don't get into any detailed editing, I use Take Lanes just for comping and choosing the parts I want. 

"The Huge Book of Cakewalk by BandLab Tips"  is now available at Reverb.com, and
listen to/download my latest album Simplicity from cdbaby!
#29
mettelus
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Re: I HATE take lanes. 2018/05/15 22:19:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2018/05/22 23:18:01
^^ Speed comping is my only use as well, one track only. For that use it is ideal, but I can see where complex variations have caused issues for some.


gswitz
Now they pile up to the sky. An interesting measure of practice time.



I admit I got a chuckle from this Geoff. Good thing you are not running tape! Try finding your best take then

Oh the things we take for granted with computers.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#30
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