I posted a feature requst to return layers as well as lanes [Living With Lanes]

I know I'm crazy, but there are so many issues with Lanes that don't work for me.
 
Id be happy to have layers with all it's bugs and no more development if need be...
 
Please... Maybe if enough people make this issue in the system as well as here in the forums it will be taken more seriously...
 
Honestly I don't believe they will do this, but maybe enough polite requests will get something done to make this important tool work for both camps...
 
I'm so tired of struggling with a system that does not work for me after so many years of a tool that worked well...
 
Keni
 

Thanks Alex...
 
 For me they will be half-baked until they add a tool to make them behave as layers did... So I currently doubt I'm ever gonna be happy with them and I'm giving that some serious thought...
 
Keni
 

brian brock
Layers should be re-implemeted using the Edit Filter.  Just as there is now a "Clips" option in the Edit Filter list, there could be a "Clip Layers" option.
 
The Edit Filter is one of Sonar's great features and more power should be given to it.  Using the Edit Filter to give back Layers would be great.

Hi Brian...
 
I would be thrilled if they did this.... funny as I do not like the edit filter and complained bitterly about it when it was implemented... I still don't like it but I can live with it a lot easier than I can Lanes! <sigh>...
 
Keni
 

at first I disliked the edit filter, but I've come to use it quite a bit now.  I don't always actually click on it, but I shift-click automation envelopes and clips to bring them to the front all the time.  I use the edit filter drop-down to make clip automation (I still think doing it this way is a mixing-up of the clip/track hierarchy, but at least it works), and to switch between notes/clips on midi tracks.
 
Using it to show layers would make sense, as the layers can be thought of as simply another way of looking at the audio on the track.  One problem would actually be with clip automation, which couldn't be shown on layered clips.  Ideally, the layers filter would be a check-box in the Edit Filter drop down list, so that it could be turned on and off independently from the other parameters.

Sylvan
I guess I am the odd man out. Take lanes is working fantastic for me. I am comping loads of vocals for a local artist in my area and am zipping through with no problems.

I will mention that when I use Take Lanes that I make a distinction in my mind that Take Lanes are not Tracks and and don't treat them like Tracks. With that mind set, it has allowed me to really be productive which using this feature.

I'm with you.  Take Lanes works great for my application.

I like the comping feature too.  I would hate for them to go backwards although I understand your frustration.

brian brock
at first I disliked the edit filter, but I've come to use it quite a bit now.

I really got into the Edit Filter when I discovered you could quick group the setting. So I could have a mess of some clips with clip automation, some showing transients, some clips, some automation, etc. and return them to a consistent setting with a single ctrl-click. This is a HUGE time-saver (although if you do this during playback, the audio will glitch momentarily).

I too feel that bringing back layers would be a huge backward step. The key to moving forward with lanes is knowing that they are not individual tracks, but the the sum of several lanes make a single track. This makes all the difference in benefitting from this awesome feature. Lets keep moving forward.

Anderton
For me, speed comping is a fantastic feature. I think the problem people have is that with Layers, you could sorta comp, and sorta edit. With Take Layers, you can comp really, really well...edit, not so much. 

This is it exactly. I love takes for comping vocals or similar parts that come in discrete chunks.  I would not want to see the feature go away as it is a great tool.
 
However takes are very difficult to use for editing, especially with multi-miced instruments with no breaks.  This is why many have requested either takes be refined to incorporate better editing capability (similar, or ideally better than, layers) or that there be the option to use either layers or takes on a given track.  
 
I would like to think that even those who don't need the better editing functions of layers can appreciate why it is necessary for some of us. I for one fully support efforts to improve MIDI functionality even though I never use it myself.

Sylvan
I "COMP" with Take Lanes and once the comp is completed, I can do normal editing in the final single track.

I find this system to be the best approach given the limitations of X3, but being able to see and move chunks in discrete layers/takes can be extremely valuable.  Editing in a single track one is limited to just seeing that one track with the chunks overlapping.  For some editing this is no big deal, but for others it is a real problem.

I did not do enough with layers in the past to recall their functionality well. What "features" of the layers are desired? I am not clear on this, so reading this thread confuses me more than helps me understand.
 
I agree 100% with Sylvan's point in that takes are takes... they get comped to a track, and the track is then edited. I am confused how/why this is not sufficient?
 
Edit: Brian's post came up after I submitted this, so understand the FX bin point. I guess I am still confused with the "take comment"... if things are "that diverse," trying to 'splice them' just makes no sense to me. A "take" should be repetitions of "damn near" the same content (to me anyway, perhaps I am naïve).

Something I used to use the layers for was creating many layers of a single "part" of a multi-part harmony or even several layers for each of a number of these vocals.  This way I was able to use the one bus, the one EQ, the one comp - whatever and collapse the whole thing so I didn't have to look at it if I didn't want to.  I sometimes would use layers to comp a part together, but at least as often use a number of layers to create and overall single/multi part, whether layering a bunch of guitar notes to create a harmony Brian May style or a vocal stack or whatever.  It sure beat having 16 individual tracks in a folder - unless folders were nest-able, which would accomplish a similarfeat, I suppose.
 
I think this is one of the points that I miss in the new comping model.  I haven't even really gotten a chance to use the new model yet, but I know that I will wish that I had a good way to stack a bunch of parts again without having to create a bunch of separate tracks.
 
That said, from what I've seen, the new comping methods look pretty cool so far.

I will need to open up one of the files that I was doing this with and see what it looks like when the layers are turned into whatever-they-are-turned-into.  I don't really have a current example of what I want to do, so I'm not sure that the new method won't do what I'm describing.  I asked in another thread when X3 first appeared, but the query wasn't answered so I still don't really know if it will work "my way".
 
Short version: I want to be able to easily collapse a number of vocal takes that are designed to be a stack.  Let's say I have a three part harmony and I want 5 voices (mine) on each of the 3 parts.  In my method, I'd have 3 tracks with 5 layers each or possible 1 track with 15 layers.  What would I have today?  The same?  Or would have I have to have 15 separate tracks to get the overlapping thing going?  Again - easily.  I'm not sure because I haven't had the time to play with it this way yet.
 
My old way, I'd just EQ each of the three vocal parts with 1 EQ.  If I wanted to automate something like panning for the whole background stack, I just did the automation on one or maybe up to three tracks - not 15 tracks of automation (can you do an automation envelope on a folder?).  I'd send all three tracks to a bus where I could add the right verb or whatever (same in today's version, I suppose).  I'd have all three tracks in a folder called backup vocals. 
 
Neat, clean, simple, fast, efficient on CPU, etc.
 
Does the new way accommodate this workflow/layout?

brian brock
at first I disliked the edit filter, but I've come to use it quite a bit now.  I don't always actually click on it, but I shift-click automation envelopes and clips to bring them to the front all the time.  I use the edit filter drop-down to make clip automation (I still think doing it this way is a mixing-up of the clip/track hierarchy, but at least it works), and to switch between notes/clips on midi tracks.
 
Using it to show layers would make sense, as the layers can be thought of as simply another way of looking at the audio on the track.  One problem would actually be with clip automation, which couldn't be shown on layered clips.  Ideally, the layers filter would be a check-box in the Edit Filter drop down list, so that it could be turned on and off independently from the other parameters.

I still dislike it... I've learned to use it and the various shortcuts because I must...
 
But if they bring back layers and make it work through there, I'll learn to love the edit filter! ;-)
 
Keni
 

Anderton

Sylvan
I guess I am the odd man out. Take lanes is working fantastic for me. I am comping loads of vocals for a local artist in my area and am zipping through with no problems.

I will mention that when I use Take Lanes that I make a distinction in my mind that Take Lanes are not Tracks and and don't treat them like Tracks. With that mind set, it has allowed me to really be productive which using this feature.

For me, speed comping is a fantastic feature. I think the problem people have is that with Layers, you could sorta comp, and sorta edit. With Take Layers, you can comp really, really well...edit, not so much. You are 100% correct that these are Take Lanes and not Edit Lanes.
 
As to whether there could be an option for both, I don't do coding. However, my gut tells me that lanes and layers are fundamental areas of the program, so messing with them could be opening a Pandora's box...

There are some aspects of it that work well for certain jobs, but the comping method doesn't work well for most of my needs... and yes, editing is a royal pain!
 
I'm sure having both must be difficult or they probably would have left it there...
 
But no one ever said this work was gonna be easy! ;-)
 
I can burn through my editing and comping (not discussing multi-track comping as I don't have much need for that) fast as lightning with layers... Lanes fight me at every turn...
 
Yes, I understand their' use... It's not that I don't know how to use them, it's that it doesn't work for me in my situations...
 
I'm sure I can learn more about them, but that's not gonna please me as their basic working right now gets in the way for me....
 
Keni
 
Keni