Thanks Keni,


  that's the post I was looking for.  Most if not all DAWs like a really clean environment to run in, so teh actual OS is not too important, as long as you can use your choice of machine imo.  THe one area I see where Mac can make inroads for audio use is in laptops as the windows laptops have pretty much abandoned firewire whereas MacBook pros still have it (or thunderbolt which works).


I own a Studiolive which I use for recording and live use.  I am completely happy with a windows based PC at home, but may well consider a Mac for my next laptop for capturing audio in a live situation.  Which OS I boot too is not really relevant as I won't be checking my email at the time (that's what phones are for :)


Cheers


Grif

Keni


Excuse me for jumping in, but it's also becoming less important for Cakewalk to bother with a Mac version..

I am currently using a Mac Pro boot camped to Win7Pro with no problems and I've been told that ther are others using 3rd party software a to run Sonar while running OSX...

Now others are working at applying Wineskin and the likes to make this evn more simple and productive...

Maybe the solution is no longer necessarily in the hands of the program developers and will shortly run on either platform to begin with.

We're all seeing how both OS's are adapting many of each others characteristics and I'm currently thinking that we will soon see both of them running either platform's programs natively...

So I'm guessing that MS & Apple will be the one's to solve the issue at last...

It seems to be in either/both of their' best interests to do so...

I have and use both platforms and don't see a reason for the two not to find this common ground...

Just my 2 cents...

Keni

SteveGriffiths


Thanks Keni,


that's the post I was looking for.  Most if not all DAWs like a really clean environment to run in, so teh actual OS is not too important, as long as you can use your choice of machine imo.  THe one area I see where Mac can make inroads for audio use is in laptops as the windows laptops have pretty much abandoned firewire whereas MacBook pros still have it (or thunderbolt which works).


I own a Studiolive which I use for recording and live use.  I am completely happy with a windows based PC at home, but may well consider a Mac for my next laptop for capturing audio in a live situation.  Which OS I boot too is not really relevant as I won't be checking my email at the time (that's what phones are for :)


Cheers


Grif

Keni


Excuse me for jumping in, but it's also becoming less important for Cakewalk to bother with a Mac version..

I am currently using a Mac Pro boot camped to Win7Pro with no problems and I've been told that ther are others using 3rd party software a to run Sonar while running OSX...

Now others are working at applying Wineskin and the likes to make this evn more simple and productive...

Maybe the solution is no longer necessarily in the hands of the program developers and will shortly run on either platform to begin with.

We're all seeing how both OS's are adapting many of each others characteristics and I'm currently thinking that we will soon see both of them running either platform's programs natively...

So I'm guessing that MS & Apple will be the one's to solve the issue at last...

It seems to be in either/both of their' best interests to do so...

I have and use both platforms and don't see a reason for the two not to find this common ground...

Just my 2 cents...

Keni

Hi Grif...

I'm glad if it helps you for sure... And as I have little use for OSX myself, I'm perfectly happy to boot into Windows and forget about it...

But I hate going back and forth between the two OS's when the need arises...

I truly believe that if either camp decided to support both platforms within a single OS it would be not only do-able, but a lot easier than some might expect... Why they haven't done this must have other reasons as the programming can't be the obstacle...

...nor is the routing of audio in/out of any particular program. It should be reasonable to make the OS question the programs needs when loading an individual program and supplying it with the needed paths and access...

I think Apple is already onto this hence bootcamp as a first foray into this.. I expect in the near future Mac will have an updated bootcamp (or a replacement) that makes this happen... They need to compete with the couple of companies already doing this as ad-ins, but it really needs to be ahndled within/by the OS itself to be efficient...

(I believe)...

In the meantime I'm very happy with my Windows/Mac system as it's the best I've yet had in any camp!

Keni

I have to work with guys using cubase on mac. I like to work with them. As a longtime Sonar user, it was a steep learning curve to get into this (different os and different daw) Learning mac os was simple (man, what a difference to some things in the pc world!) learning cubase is another story, but if you work with daws it's not such a great challenge. I would like the idea of Sonar running natively on mac (i could abonden all the big pc machines...) and i could easily convince the cubase mates using sonar ;-) cheers Michael

Brad : "Everyone under the age of 20 who wants a computer for Christmas wants a Mac. "

That's a pretty strong statement :-)

In my experience, not everyone wants to get ripped off.

I've gone back to university and macs are the minority among the kids I see.

My 2 cents: Steinberg made Wavelab Mac OSX capable, because they saw the added business. There are some DAWs that only work with Mac, and almost none that work with Linux. Windows is still, to this day #1 in the OS market. Apple is (or was) the world's largest company, forget just a computer manufacturer. These are just the knowns. 

I believe it would make sense to add staff to port Sonar over to the Mac. If you're ever going to get a Pro-Tools user to try Sonar out, this is a good way to do that. Unfortunately, Apple's direction is very secretive, which makes their products unpredictable to some extent. Microsoft rarely is secretive to that extent. 

Cakewalk can decide to make Sonar for the Mac, and I suspect this could be something for X3. They would increase their sales, I believe, but the hardware IS expensive. Usually, anyone who buys a Mac Pro, for example, has the $ to go the ProTools route, not taking chances on something new. If it were me, I'd lean heavily toward PT for the Mac. I live in Nashville, and all of my friends who have Mac DAW's use PT or Logic.  However, they would give Sonar a try on the Mac, sure. They just wouldn't reach for it as the first one to grab when purchasing a $3,000 Mac Pro.  If Cakewalk wants Sonar on the Mac, they'd better get started soon, and they will definitely need to work out the kinks. I find Apple users far less tolerant to bugs than Windows users. 

Ubuntu can forget it for now. Unfortunately, there is a very VERY tiny DAW market there, and most studio engineers would rather not have to deal with Linux. They don't have time. Ubuntu is rock solid, and I love it (I use 10.04 and 12.04 LTS servers every day), but it's still got a ways to go to be really DAW and DAW hardware-friendly. Believe me, I wish this were not the case. 

I own a MacPro as it was a gift...

...and I enjoy it very much running Win7Pro.

But I would not be looking for one if I was shopping to buy.

I wish we could get over the constant banter of PT being "pro" and everything else not.

Yes, many large studios have opted for it fr a variety of reasons, but in the pro world of lessening/vanishing "big" studios, we are also seeing studios that support both win/OSX work with assorted clients and the extreme variety of work that happens...

One big reason fr supporting PT in a studio is that they get to charge more!

I have been in the studio business for over 40 years and I remember other similar situations... People/studios used to say the sae about adat support... Which went where?

People use whatever works for them and for every "under 20" that only wants a Mac, there are dozens of times more that are too musically determined to wait for it and dig into the lower cost simply to work.

Yes... Garage band free is a boon to people starting with a Mac... Wonderful entry level... As s Audacity on either platform....

Companies compete for sure... but as in chess, all moves are not easily read! ;-)

For me, I believe that any path can be successful given the right turn of the world...

I just want Cakewalk to fix the many issues with Lanes and I can carry on with my life as a musician as I don't want to be a businessman... ;-)

Keni

brconflict


Personally, I don't like the adage of PT being "Pro", either. However, a few things do set them apart from the others, such as a wider range of controller options designed specifically for PT, even if they can be used with other DAW's (we're talking huge mixing desks). They also support satellite feeds and better audio networking than most. The ideal customer base for PT are the studios that have a staff, where the sessions need to be easily shared between desktops and facilities, not that Sonar can't do this on a shared network drive. 

Also, AVID has invested a lot in tailored hardware that can be bundled and used seamlessly with the DAW, and this obviously puts them in a better position to make their DAW more efficient and bug-free, which is good for their reputation in the market--and for higher rates charged.

I'm not defending PT as "Pro", though, it just ends up that way with most people. As the CPUs get faster and higher sampling rates and Bit-engines become diminishing in returns, we're going to see all that change.

In the book by "Mixerman", Zen and the Art of Mixing, he indicates the Mastering realm is really the only industry left in which you can reliably place some emphasis on how serious and successful the engineer is based on his equipment, and whether or not this is all he does and nothing else. The mixing market is less and less that way, since the technology and DAW advances have gotten so good. PT has definitely got their work cut out for them.

Hi Brian...

I agree with much of what you said...

I had hoped that Cakewalk was gonna go more in that direction as Avid and Fairlight did... they started to with the VS700 stuff, but didn't build it to the "performing arts" range and it sits pretty much as a project studio alternative only...

Roland's foray into the live digital board is quite good, but their approach hasn't been "bought" by those situations/venues. Avid devoted more resources to that field and have very few competitors (tho More are always emerging)...

As so many use PT already, it's an easy transition to their' boards whether live or in the studio...

For me? If I was entering that realm in a distributed studio I'd go for the Fairlight as it surpasses everybody as they've been doing this far longer...

For live I'd probably use a Digico or Studer Vista.... and Sonar of course! ;-)

It just seems to me that people now more than ever do their work in such a diversified manner (recordings) that the advantage of the large studios is far smaller... and as an old-time studio owner, I know that tech always changes and that what matters most is can the studio handle the work/needs. Can they transport between locations with a given project...

I know there are problems of sorts with OMF, projects have always needed to deal with issues when changing locations... Remember calibrating 2" machines to a clients tape? Or transferring from Something or other to/from ADAT ...or Sony digital....

A studio can always rent the extra hear if a client needs it so while being a "PT Studio" once meant more dependable. I don't think it still can hold that claim... and I know that their' major releases always have many bugs.... Notoriously in the past... They're no different than anyone else in that arena...

But enuf of this rant... ;-) As to the subject of this thread...

I'd love it if Sonar did release a Mac/IOS version.... I'm sure no one would complain? ;-)

Keni

Sorry Guys, forum software says NO!

Benjamin, I'm sorry. I can't tell if you're kidding. 

I have 4 Terabytes of HD storage on my DAW, 8 GB of RAM. What about our huge sample libraries? I also record 48 tracks at once every week. I don't think an ipad will be a serious solution for me for a long time. 

I don't think you need to double the staff to make Sonar work on a MAC. Softwares are written in certain languages, then they are compiled for whatever platform you want to - Windows, MAC, Linux. Of course it might need extra work and twaeks, but not to rewrite the whole program!

Well, we just about beat this dead horse into the ground, but since Cakewalk is under new ownership now....bump!

Apple dropping the price of Logic to $199 via direct sale only was basically a sign posted on the Mac that said "We own this market. Go away."
 
Apple has contributed a lot to our world, but one aspect I don't like is how they've devalued software in order to sell hardware.
 
Logic has made a major dent in market share for other programs. So Sonar would not only be coming into the game late, but have to gain back market share that other companies have lost to Logic. That would be difficult for any company to do, let alone one of Cakewalk's size.
 
That said, there's still some room to move in the Mac market, but I believe you will see Apple more and more offering Apple software for Apple computers...and if you want to try and take on a company that has billions in the bank from consumer electronics, and knows what hardware and software changes are coming up before anyone else, you're welcome to try.

You guys did see that letter from UA about what works with the new Mac desktop and what will never work with the new desktop...right? "Unfortunately UAD-2 SOLO, DUO, and QUAD PCIe cards cannot be made to work with the new Mac Pros."

BenMMusTech

Brad Russell


Benjamin, I'm sorry. I can't tell if you're kidding. 

I have 4 Terabytes of HD storage on my DAW, 8 GB of RAM. What about our huge sample libraries? I also record 48 tracks at once every week. I don't think an ipad will be a serious solution for me for a long time. 

 
I am being serious, I am a music tech specialist and I can see the writing on the wall.  I did say we were about a year or two away but lets say for agument sake your like me and many others here on the forum, that is we are hybrid musicians/digital musicians.  All we need is a couple of inputs and outputs.  So for most of us an Ipad will do the job. 
 
As for your argument, that is you record 48 tracks at once, it's not a viable option at the moment but on saying that I know of quite a few high end interfaces eg: RME that will now work with ipad, I believe it has to do with core audio.  So that takes care of the sound quality, next we have to look at SSD speeds, ram speeds and throughput of the apple connectors.  Now I am not sure of these facts but I believe a gig of ram should be enough to buffer 48 tracks of audio at 24bit 44.1Khz, the only problem seems to be storage and the throughput of the apple connector.
 
I believe that these problems will be solved in the near future, lets say apples next Ipad comes with a thunderbolt connector, this would allow you to hook multiple devices to the ipad, possibly in some sort of daisy chain format.  It would also allow you to connect a HD monitor to the ipad and external hard drives.  Couple this with a bluetooth keyboard and you have a very small touch screen laptop that could sit quite nicely in front of your large screen monitor and control things. 
 
Hold the presses I forgot about all the new and exciting interfaces that are availible now, there are fully functioning digital mixers from MAKIE and BEHRINGER which you slide your ipad into.  It wouldn't take much to build USB and HDMI connectors into the desk so you can record 48 tracks. 
 
Honestly this is the way of the future!!
 
Peace Ben

Ben, i was almost going to agree with you until you about certain things, then you started on about you being a music tech........... again.

I have an iPad. It will NOT do the jobas a desktop or powerful laptop will, it has no memory for stocking samples etc, nor large wav files, nor large programmes etc etc.

Its merely a way to a means - i don't have to go 5 metres to press a record button, i use V-Control (which if i remeber correctly, you have also).

IMHO i can't see a tablet replacing a desktop in the near or medium term - they just can't deal with the amount of info they will need to stock.

Also, fro the "new" Mackie and Behringer mixers, sure its interesting, but give me a real slider anyday than a finger swipe. And the iPads are only control devices not the mixers, which lets face it, do the majority of the work.
I await to see your designs for integrating USB and HDMI.........

Digitech have a pedal board that you programme (that is the operative word) using your iPad. But when you're using the thing live as a glorified stomp box, then i would not like my iPad any where near my clumsy feet.

Keni made the best post here.

Sorry Ben, you've not convinced me at all. Tablets as an aid, yes no issue. Tablets as a DAW, well, no.

Cheers,
Jerry

Brad Russell
Well, we just about beat this dead horse into the ground, but since Cakewalk is under new ownership now....bump!

Guess you missed the http://www.cakewalk.com/page.aspx/Gibson-FAQ where the new owners already answered your question:
 
Will Cakewalk develop a Mac version of SONAR? 
Many musicians already run SONAR on the Mac using Boot Camp and various other solutions, so there are no plans for a Mac version at this time. However, Mac and iOS support for other products will play an important part in Cakewalk’s future.