John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 03:17:29
(permalink)
Vladasyn you have so many problems I think you should contact CW by phone. I believe you have brought this forum to its knees in trying to keep up with the various issues described.
I can tell you there is hope in that I for one do not see any of these problems on my system. I think you have substantial underlying problems that will make it very difficult to offer useful help. Sorry about this and I do wish you the best.
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 05:51:56
(permalink)
mgwitt
The Correct Way To Uninstall Sonar is as follows: ...
I LOVE this post! Thank you for this early on in the thread. The only thing I will add is I had a freaky issue with X2 in that the part1.exe setup file was not the correct MD5 hash check, but the same byte size (this is very odd). I could only determine this by downloading them all again until I got matching files, and posted the hash checks a while ago. For any re-install, ensure the install files are correct, or it simply re-creates the same issues if that was the problem. My problem was a phantom bug, mostly associated with plug-in additions to projects, that white screened me and lost all work not saved in the process. Out of my own morbid curiosity, did pre-purchasers of X2 (like me) with the quick fix have "clean running" versions of X2? Best regards, Michael
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 05:52:16
(permalink)
His problems will continue until such time as he follows the correct uninstall/install procedure
All I see are posts saying "it crashes" with n attempt to diagnose & solve the problem.
I read earlier he's using 2 soundcards - that rings alarm bells immediately
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
aj
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1084
- Joined: 2003/12/08 08:21:36
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 11:36:43
(permalink)
Unfortunately, I'm sorry to say that my experiences were similar to the OP's. Started with Sonar 2, then 3, skipped 4 and 5 then upgraded to 6,7 and 8, ending up on 8.0.3.
Over all these versions and with multiple hardware platforms I can't say I ever had a rock-solid glitch-free experience at any time. I work in IT, so I know a bit about computers, and each platform was carefully set up to be stripped of unnecessary services, didn't run AV, wasn't network connected, and used an Edirol audio interface, directly connected to the host computer.
Either the audio engine would randomly drop out on me - especially with some plugins like RealStrat - or Sonar would crash. I learned that some Cakewalk plugs, like V-Vocal, were especially treacherous for this, but in general you could never feel entirely confident it wouldn't start behaving weirdly. I tweaked endless parameters, did DPC latency checks etc, etc but eventually one day I downloaded Reaper and tried it. I hated it at first and it lacks a lot of Sonar's depth but it never ever crashes or glitches, even with all the plugins I used with Sonar.
Now I accept that others have had rock-solid experiences with Sonar. I have no idea what magic incantations I should have made to resolve my issues - heavens above, I set up new hardware platforms, religiously updated all my plugins, and Sonar itself, and tried everything I could.
I've learned to live with Reaper's limitations - though I sure do miss a lot of Sonar's functionality. But nothing kills musical inspiration faster than a glitch or crash - it matters a lot more than if you were, say, doing spreadsheets or word processing or whatever because you're in a completely different mode of thought where the DAW needs to 'just work'.
I think - when everything is 'just so', that Sonar must indeed be rock-solid. But unlike other competing products it seems to be unusually sensitive to environmental differences and the audio engine is particularly easy to disrupt. And when that happens it just 'drops out' and that's it. And when Sonar crashes it doesn't seem to properly close the audio device driver either, so you now have to often do a complete reboot.
After I set up my latest platform, I did a torture test with the audio tracks from Sonar's 'guilty' project by importing them into Reaper and copying them multiple times. Since the new machine is a laptop with a 5400rpm drive, we ran out of disk bandwidth around the 130 track mark, but even continuing to add tracks to several hundred, Reaper gamely continued, although of course there were glitches since the hard drive simply couldn't stream audio fast enough.
Conversely you can load up effects until your CPU meter is right into the red and again, although Reaper will eventually glitch, it never becomes unstable. Sonar, on the other hand, I always felt was 'right on the limit'. If you pushed it, it just quit in various unexpected ways. Indeed (although this, to be fair, is still version 8.0.3 which is the latest I have), that version on my new platform immediately started playing up just running through the sample projects, particularly the softsynth-heavy ones like Dark European Space Adventure, which played about 1 minute and then crashed Sonar.
You can argue that I've set something up wrong on this new machine (which, BTW, has a core-i7 and 8G RAM), but it's racked up about 3 months now with Reaper and a whole pile of softsynths without so much as a glitch, let alone a crash, so I'd be very interested to know what magic pixie dust it takes to get Sonar stable on it.
And one final thing, which kinda tells me how much care and attention is being paid to quality control at Cake these days. Try going into this forum with Firefox and you'll find that preview doesn't work (a box comes up with 'undefined') and that any post will end up with no paragraphs, just a single block of text. This means I have to post using Internet Explorer. That's depressing. I know running the forum isn't the same as developing the core DAW software but I'm sure the devs must have used this forum in the past and certainly the product managers do. To complacently ignore something like browser compatibility in 2012 - nearly 2013 - indicates a general lack of attention to detail that doesn't make me confident about the company as a whole.
|
vladasyn
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1092
- Joined: 2005/02/05 00:33:23
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 11:51:40
(permalink)
Good morning everyone. The world was not over, the new day began some what late but I am up and alert. If you were talking about me, I am "she". I do have more than one soundcard. Delta 1010 and Phonic Helix 18 Fire Wire. ASIO only alows one sound card, the other driver (windows) allows many cards. All my Ins/Outs listed per track. Till recently, there was no soundcard with more than 8 channels. I have many keyboards, I resent to get up every time I need to use another module and plug the cables. I use all available channels, or should I say- everything has something plugged in to it. Many keyboards and other gear like Roland Fantom have USB audio/MIDI port on them. The DAW should be able to integrate all of them. One interesting thing I heard was that Fire Wire device should not be Recording Time master. I should change it back to Delta- PCI. Other than that- nothing wrong with my set up. It used to be able to do the work fine, till 8.5 version. Then it went to hell.
|
stratman70
Max Output Level: -45 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3044
- Joined: 2006/09/12 20:34:12
- Location: Earth
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 11:56:27
(permalink)
vladasyn
Session Drummer is not responding. All tracks playing minus drums. Cursor is not moving and jumping back to earlier bars when playback stops. No more restarts tonight. Going to bed. This is my session. It was fun. Thanks for listening.
Are you serious? Try hanging dry wall, much less complicated than computers and music.
|
hockeyjx
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 839
- Joined: 2003/12/09 18:36:28
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 11:59:10
(permalink)
aj,
The forum software is 3rd party. It is what it is.
Just because you built a new box doesn't mean you've used top-end components or that all the components are good. Problems manifest themselves in different ways. I had bad memory that caused some strange problems. I didn't blame them on anything... I checked hardware first, then drivers and then software.
Some plug-ins don't play well with certain hosts, and some plugins are just plain crap.
I haven't a crash problem with 8.5.3 or X1d or X2a.
I'm not trying to invalidate what you are saying, but I promise you your crashes won't happen on my system.
Intel i7 950 Proc, Asus Sabertooth x58 MB, 2 Crucial 128GB SSDs and Seagate 1TBGB drive, 12GB Corsair 1600mhz 8-8-8-24 Memory, Nvidia GeForece 8400 Dual Monitor vid card
Cooler Master Silent Pro 700w Power Supply, Cooler Master Sileo 500
Win 7 64 bit, SPlat 64-bit, Komplete 10 Ultimate, AmpliTube3 and AD2 Tascam FW-1884 and AKAI MPK-49
|
mgwitt
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/10/09 16:49:46
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 12:21:49
(permalink)
robert_e_bone
mgwitt
The Correct Way To Uninstall Sonar is as follows:
To completely un-install SONAR X2 Producer from your computer. You will want to manually remove the SONAR installation files by deleting the following directories. Do this by doing the following:
1) Open the Run Prompt by holding down the Windows Key on your computer and pressing "R"
2) In the Run prompt type in the following and press [OK]: C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\
3) Delete the "SONAR X2 Producer" folder contained within
4) Open the Run Prompt by holding down the Windows Key on your computer and pressing "R"
5) In the Run prompt type in the following and press [OK]: %appdata%\Cakewalk
6) Delete the "SONAR X2 Producer" folder contained within
7) Open the Run Prompt by holding down the Windows Key on your computer and pressing "R"
8) In the Run prompt type in the following and press [OK]: %allusersprofile%\Cakewalk
9) Delete the "SONAR X2 Producer" folder contained within
Next you will want to delete your SONAR related registry keys by doing the following:
10) Open the Run Prompt by holding down the Windows Key on your computer and pressing "R"
11) In the Run prompt type in the following and press [OK]: regedit
12) Click [OK] will launch the Registry Editor. If prompted with a message "Do you want to allow the following program to make changes...", click [Yes].
*****
IMPORTANT: When you access the Registry Editor, create a backup by going to File > Export. In the Export menu, make sure you have "All" selected and that the "Save As Type" is set to "Registration Files (*.reg).
It is very important to create a backup of your registry because if you accidentally delete a registry key there is no undo function. You can, however, double-click on the Registry backup you made above to re-import your registry keys if you make any mistakes. You MUST re-import your backup (if needed) before restarting your computer.
*****
13) Now delete the following Registry keys:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\X2
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\X2
IMPORTANT: You will want to delete the "X2" folder at the end of these strings of keys. Do this by right-clicking on the ""X2" folder and selecting "Delete". Only do this for the "X2" folders in the locations above. If you do not see these ""X2" folders, proceed to the next step.
*Please note that this will remove any effects presets and key bindings you may have made in Cakewalk. You can back these up separately if you like from SONAR's Plug-in Manager and Color and Key Bindings menus.
At this point, you will want to re-install the product. We recommend temporarily disabling your startup programs by doing the following:
14) Open the 'Run' command again and type in the following: msconfig
15) Click [OK] and then click on the Startup tab at the upper right of the window that opens.
16) Uncheck all items listed, click [OK], then restart your computer. You can always recheck those items again at a later time.
17) Reinstall SONAR X2
Isn't there some content to remove, as well? C:\Cakewalk Content\Sonar X2 Producer
(maybe you mentioned it above and I missed it - I dunno)
Bob Bone
Yes, however if you are planning to reinstall X2 you might want to save your projects etc. This only un-installs the program and install files so the same corrupt errors are not in your registry.
Windows 7 64bit; 16gigs ram; AMD quad-core; Roland Quadcapture interface; Sonar X2 Producer; Alesis MK2 monitors active; Cakewalk A-300 Pro Midi Controller Keyboard;
|
Jimbo 88
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1828
- Joined: 2007/03/19 12:27:17
- Location: Elmhurst, Illinois USA
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 12:27:32
(permalink)
vladasyn
Good morning everyone. The world was not over, the new day began some what late but I am up and alert. If you were talking about me, I am "she". I do have more than one soundcard. Delta 1010 and Phonic Helix 18 Fire Wire. ASIO only alows one sound card, the other driver (windows) allows many cards. All my Ins/Outs listed per track. Till recently, there was no soundcard with more than 8 channels. I have many keyboards, I resent to get up every time I need to use another module and plug the cables. I use all available channels, or should I say- everything has something plugged in to it. Many keyboards and other gear like Roland Fantom have USB audio/MIDI port on them. The DAW should be able to integrate all of them. One interesting thing I heard was that Fire Wire device should not be Recording Time master. I should change it back to Delta- PCI. Other than that- nothing wrong with my set up. It used to be able to do the work fine, till 8.5 version. Then it went to hell.
The 1st thing to do is put your system specs in the same place you have your "myspace" link. That way people trying to help can see what's up and not be taking shots in the dark. My suggestion...you seem to have lots of gear so you are not financially too restricted. Buy a computer from Jim at StudioCat.com or Sweetwater or Scott at ADK. Then you will have someone who will prevent the seemingly endless computer conflicts you have before you even get started. All I can tell you is this...I have a Sweetwater Creation Station. It came Fed Ex, I plugged it in and loaded Sonar and tons and tons of soft synths and it works fine with little effort. Before Soft synths I had many, many synths and rack moduals using every possible midi channel. Every once in a while I need to put in a call to tech support or come to this forum for a little advice. I spend about 360 days a year composing music with Sonar and have very little trouble.
|
vladasyn
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1092
- Joined: 2005/02/05 00:33:23
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 12:52:02
(permalink)
I will get new computer before Spring, I promise. :). I am waiting to see what new processors Intell will release- Ive Bridge with 3770 K did not impress me (reading reviews). I am waiting for NAMM to see what audio interfaces will be released. I need 24 to 32 audio tracks. It is easy to say- get new computer. My audio interface (Helix Phonic 18 Fire Wire) does not have Win. 8 drivers. I can take my chances and install XP drivers. It might work, or may cause lots of problems. I was looking in to Beringer x32, but I do not want berhinger gear. Audio mixers are pricey, it is not easy buy, especially when you need computer as well. Also- I have 3 albums (40 songs) on this system. I need this system to work to be able to access the music I already have. Last album is not mixed/finished. Migrating 40 songs to new system is a pain. I had 3 hard drives, the files distributed all over the system, it will be hard to locate everything. Some songs are still in Logic- I migrated 10 songs in 2004, it was pain. I would like this system to be stable so I can mix the songs and release the album. I am sitting on it for couple years can not finish it because I have trouble with the system.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 13:06:25
(permalink)
You might want to get a copy of Win7 instead until it becomes more apparent where Win8 is heading. 7 Home and Pro will be supported until 2018 and obviously most hardware already has drivers for it.
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 13:40:16
(permalink)
robert_e_bone
Kroneborge
It really doesn't matter what gear or computer you have, Sonar should NEVER crash, this is bad programming. A program should be able to take whatever you throw at it, and keep going. If a plugin etc, is messing up, Sonar needs to work around it. This is basic programming 101, dealing with exceptions. Crashing isn't the answer. Yes this is more difficult in practice than in theory but it doesn't really matter. Before all the bells and whistles, the program should be rock solid.
So, if you put sugar into your gas tank, your car should purr like a kitten? Should souffles stay fluffy with the window open in a construction zone?
So, it is Sonar's fault if for some inexplicable reason I cannot get it to install in 64-bit mode on a computer with 32-bit Windows running?
Would it be Microsoft's fault that my Xbox 360 can't read a disc that my dog ate - then humped (not sure which order)?
Would it be the auto manufacturer's fault that a hard-left turn into oncoming traffic might result in injury?
Please stick to helping to solve the problems at hand in the post - take up your position on how life should work in its own thread, so people can ignore it without clouding up another poster's issues.
Bob Bone
To be fair, I see his point. Nobody is saying that those incompatible configurations should work, just that they shouldn't crash the program. A gas tank isn't intelligent enough to work its way out of a major error like sugar. It's not programmed to handle "exceptions." A well written computer program, however, should be able to find its way out of an error, not to "make it work" necessarily but to at least tell the user "this particular device has stopped responding" or "this plug has crashed and we're going to close it down," without the whole program locking up or shutting down. But this is the problem with most programs - they're way too vulnerable and ill prepared for fatal exceptions.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 14:24:51
(permalink)
mgwitt
robert_e_bone
mgwitt
The Correct Way To Uninstall Sonar is as follows:
To completely un-install SONAR X2 Producer from your computer. You will want to manually remove the SONAR installation files by deleting the following directories. Do this by doing the following:
1) Open the Run Prompt by holding down the Windows Key on your computer and pressing "R"
2) In the Run prompt type in the following and press [OK]: C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\
3) Delete the "SONAR X2 Producer" folder contained within
4) Open the Run Prompt by holding down the Windows Key on your computer and pressing "R"
5) In the Run prompt type in the following and press [OK]: %appdata%\Cakewalk
6) Delete the "SONAR X2 Producer" folder contained within
7) Open the Run Prompt by holding down the Windows Key on your computer and pressing "R"
8) In the Run prompt type in the following and press [OK]: %allusersprofile%\Cakewalk
9) Delete the "SONAR X2 Producer" folder contained within
Next you will want to delete your SONAR related registry keys by doing the following:
10) Open the Run Prompt by holding down the Windows Key on your computer and pressing "R"
11) In the Run prompt type in the following and press [OK]: regedit
12) Click [OK] will launch the Registry Editor. If prompted with a message "Do you want to allow the following program to make changes...", click [Yes].
*****
IMPORTANT: When you access the Registry Editor, create a backup by going to File > Export. In the Export menu, make sure you have "All" selected and that the "Save As Type" is set to "Registration Files (*.reg).
It is very important to create a backup of your registry because if you accidentally delete a registry key there is no undo function. You can, however, double-click on the Registry backup you made above to re-import your registry keys if you make any mistakes. You MUST re-import your backup (if needed) before restarting your computer.
*****
13) Now delete the following Registry keys:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\X2
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\X2
IMPORTANT: You will want to delete the "X2" folder at the end of these strings of keys. Do this by right-clicking on the ""X2" folder and selecting "Delete". Only do this for the "X2" folders in the locations above. If you do not see these ""X2" folders, proceed to the next step.
*Please note that this will remove any effects presets and key bindings you may have made in Cakewalk. You can back these up separately if you like from SONAR's Plug-in Manager and Color and Key Bindings menus.
At this point, you will want to re-install the product. We recommend temporarily disabling your startup programs by doing the following:
14) Open the 'Run' command again and type in the following: msconfig
15) Click [OK] and then click on the Startup tab at the upper right of the window that opens.
16) Uncheck all items listed, click [OK], then restart your computer. You can always recheck those items again at a later time.
17) Reinstall SONAR X2
Isn't there some content to remove, as well? C:\Cakewalk Content\Sonar X2 Producer
(maybe you mentioned it above and I missed it - I dunno)
Bob Bone
Yes, however if you are planning to reinstall X2 you might want to save your projects etc. This only un-installs the program and install files so the same corrupt errors are not in your registry.
You are correct that the content being present would not affect a subsequent install - I was only addressing the complete removal itself. Cakewalk projects are by default in a different folder. The content folder contains things like project templates, CAL scripts, sequencer patterns, and that sort of thing. Removing this folder would not remove one's projects. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
rabeach
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2703
- Joined: 2004/01/26 14:56:13
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:03:33
(permalink)
vladasyn
Good morning everyone. The world was not over, the new day began some what late but I am up and alert. If you were talking about me, I am "she". I do have more than one soundcard. Delta 1010 and Phonic Helix 18 Fire Wire. ASIO only alows one sound card, the other driver (windows) allows many cards. All my Ins/Outs listed per track. Till recently, there was no soundcard with more than 8 channels. I have many keyboards, I resent to get up every time I need to use another module and plug the cables. I use all available channels, or should I say- everything has something plugged in to it. Many keyboards and other gear like Roland Fantom have USB audio/MIDI port on them. The DAW should be able to integrate all of them. One interesting thing I heard was that Fire Wire device should not be Recording Time master. I should change it back to Delta- PCI. Other than that- nothing wrong with my set up. It used to be able to do the work fine, till 8.5 version. Then it went to hell.
Are you saying that you are using two separate audio devices made by separate vendors simultaneously in sonar?
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:19:06
(permalink)
I have two interfaces attached to my system but I use ASIO so I can only use one at a time. However I could in theory use the lightpipe connectors and use one as a basic pre device and the other as the actual sound device. That is a better option than not using ASIO as far as I know. I've never used the other driver modes because I was highly advised against it.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:20:37
(permalink)
I've also gotta wonder when the last time vladasyn has updated her drivers... but I guess that's moot seeing as how she's still on XP.
That there is a major problem.
|
daveny5
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16934
- Joined: 2003/11/06 09:54:36
- Location: North Carolina
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:23:03
(permalink)
It really doesn't matter what gear or computer you have, Sonar should NEVER crash, this is bad programming. A program should be able to take whatever you throw at it, and keep going. If a plugin etc, is messing up, Sonar needs to work around it. This is basic programming 101, dealing with exceptions. Crashing isn't the answer. Yes this is more difficult in practice than in theory but it doesn't really matter. The only way you would ever get that would be if Cakewalk required everyone to have the exact same hardware and operating system on their computers with a completely locked down image and that will never happen and no one would even want that. That still wouldn't guarantee no crashes because even dedicated standalone DAWs (hardware DAWs) crash and have to be restarted.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:31:02
(permalink)
The only way you would ever get that would be if Cakewalk required everyone to have the exact same hardware and operating system on their computers with a completely locked down image and that will never happen and no one would even want that. Yanno... I've actually pondered before about Cakewalk commissioning ADK or StudioCat to build Sonar specific boxes that would ship with the perfect interface and the current version installed and tweaked out. They could even make their own OS. It probably wouldn't make enough money to warrant the effort and that box would probably be mostly stuck in a specific point in tech history but man... that would be sweet. No problems, now worrying. Just plug into it and and have at 'er.
|
vladasyn
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1092
- Joined: 2005/02/05 00:33:23
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:31:14
(permalink)
I do have 2 devices connected- Delta 1010 PCI and Phonix 18 FireWire. I have Phonic as master clock for audio and no International clock connection to delta, so they are not synchronized. I may have to change it back to Delta as FW is not recommended to be master clock for samples. I have latest (2008) driver for Phonic, and I don't think they updated the file- they abandoned that line of product. I have XP driver for Delta. Between 2009 and 2010 I had to rebuild the system from ground up, the motherboard, DVD player and 2 out of 3 SCSI 15,000 rpm hard drives were replaced, so hardware is all couple years old. I re-installed Windows XP SP3. It also has Logic Platinum on it and Nero DVD. And Norton 360.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:34:13
(permalink)
Norton? Switch to Microsoft Security Essentials. Also look up the Cakewalk System Optimization guide.
|
Danny Danzi
Moderator
- Total Posts : 5810
- Joined: 2006/10/05 13:42:39
- Location: DanziLand, NJ
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:35:26
(permalink)
Not to play devils advocate here because I truly love Sonar and it IS my DAW of choice, but I have to agree with 2 of the posters here in what they have offered. The OP has been around a long time and to me, was a pretty respected member. I've see others depart for the same reasons. I also think AJ has legit gripes.
I've been using Cakewalk/Sonar since it was on floppy disks. Because of how you sometimes have to manipulate your system, Sonar to me, is a bit pickier than other DAW's. It truly is. If any of you haven't spent any time with anything else, you should just to see how they operate. We definitely have things in Sonar that I feel need to be improved as far as how it works on some systems. Some of the issues I get with Sonar, I do not get with the other DAW's I use. Nothing remotely close. You can't just say "yeah I've tried that DAW or this DAW". You have to live with a DAW for a while to really see for yourselves.
I'm not saying this to turn anyone off from Sonar, but as a long time user and loyal customer that owes major thanks to Sonar for the business I run as it is a major part of my lively-hood, I would seriously like to see it borrow from some of the other DAW's that are available due to them being a bit more stable in my opinion.
If you have used Studio One 2 for any length of time, you do not encounter any of the issues you may encounter with Sonar. That's not only an opinion, but a fact if you try it. The same with Reaper....there is something in those DAW's that just work differently. I don't know if it's because we have so many more bells and whistles or what the deal is, but I can't say that my trust in Sonar is what it once was. There was a time to where once I got everything configured and tweaked correctly, that I could work for hours and not worry about a crash.
These days, since we got into the X series, my hand is in a permanent ctrl+s stance. Yes this is good practice and what I should do anyway, but I don't get faded white screens in the other DAW's. I don't get certain plugins not working in other DAW's yet they don't work quite right in Sonar. I don't get audio engine drop-outs...and heck, in one of them, I can literally change my ASIO buffers while the damned thing is still playing audio! So listen....not everyone wants to be a tech and sit here trouble-shooting why they can't get Sonar to work.
No one should be flogged for not wanting to go down that road when there are other DAW's that allow you to just fire up, configure the basics and go. I've learned the stuff about pc's and configurations because.....you ready for this.....Sonar. The majority of tweaks and things that I've had to do on all the pc's I've ever owned were tweaks that allowed Sonar to run better. I sincerely don't believe that this should be a requirement for anyone. It should be a choice. And if it is a choice that one doesn't wish to make, they should move on to another DAW and I think the OP posted a rather nice fairwell message to be honest. Look at his post count. Anything close to 2000 shows a person has been here a while. Maybe he wasn't pc savvy enough to handle things? That would be his right, ya know?
Maybe he didn't have the desire to mess with things? Maybe he tried Reaper and it fired right up and worked and he actually got some work done for a change instead of messing with this, that and the other. Can we really blame a person for jumping ship when there truly ARE several variables that are needed to make Sonar work on some systems? I sure can't blame them. If I wasn't into this whole tech thing and didn't grasp it the way I have, rest assured I'd either go to one of the DAW's I mentioned...or I'd stick with my 24-track 2 inch machines. Seriously...think about some of the stuff that needs to be set up for a person and all the crap they have to go through just to make Sonar work sometimes. This to me, needs to be improved. I've tweaked nothing in the 2 DAWs I've mentioned. They worked on the first try and have never given me an ounce of trouble. That's not to say they are better...or I wouldn't be here. But they are more stable and more user friendly to get up and go with.
I'm a Sonar fan boy....I'm loyal, it is my DAW of choice and always will be until something turns me way off about it or I no longer wish to be a tweaker...but I'm also not afraid to speak what I feel is the honest to God truth about it when compared to the other DAW's I use.
-Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:45:40
(permalink)
It is true. Sonar is quite finicky. I knew that coming into it so I accept it because it was just so much less expensive for the feature list. I was into Nuendo before and if I had the coin I probably would be again (or Cubase at least) but I don't. The nice thing though and what makes up for the finicky aspect is the support. I occasionally kvetch and moan but usually someone is there to help or I can find documentation somewhere that solves my issue and I couldn't be happier.
With the Steinberg stuff I was lost. Looking back I'm surprised I even managed to get it to do what I did. The nice thing is if I ever DO end up having a large amount of cash to spend on the higher end stuff Sonar and its user base has taught me far more than I could have ever accomplished on my own and I will certainly always keep a copy around because frankly... despite its quirks I just like the program. It's got character, yanno?
Peace.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:48:02
(permalink)
Oh and I certainly don't fault anyone for switching DAWs or complaining about legit issues (I complain all the time)... I just don't get the whole going out guns blazing thing. Seems unnecessary.
|
vladasyn
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1092
- Joined: 2005/02/05 00:33:23
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 15:52:20
(permalink)
Danny, thank you for your post. I feel the same. I had Cakewalk 2 or 3 back in the day, then went with Logic Platinum, until Emagic was sold to Apple. I returned to Sonar at version 4 and the tweaking began. I had few issues with Logic back when my computer had 256 Mb of memory and 700Ghz clock speed. Then I built $4000 computer and was hoping it will work. Not exactly. I have been encouraged to switch to Apple and continue with Logic because it works. No tweaking- so I was told. I just afraid- I will miss tweaking.
|
Danny Danzi
Moderator
- Total Posts : 5810
- Joined: 2006/10/05 13:42:39
- Location: DanziLand, NJ
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 16:02:45
(permalink)
No problem Vladasyn....I think the first step in making Sonar better is for we that truly love it...to no be afraid to talk about the problems it has. I wouldn't be here if I didn't love the program. And though some of my words may be harsh, as a paying customer for many years, I feel I have that right to voice those opinions without making the community feel I am attempting to turn people towards other DAW's. That is not my intention. I just would like to see Sonar borrow a few things that would make the DAW part of it more appealing than the bells and whistles.
Well, if it's any help to you...I've had to do a little tweaking with my MAC for Logic...and let me also say, the learning curve in Logic is a nightmare. That alone keeps me away from it to be honest. LOL! So you'll still have some tweaking to do....it depends on the person, your needs and the system you buy really. But for sure, the tweaks won't be anything remotely close to what you may have had to do in Sonar. I don't think switching is the answer though. MAC's are pricey and you have to learn an entirely new system.
You sound like me....I would miss the tweaking part. LOL! It's like the whole engineering field. Once I got good monitors and tuned them with ARC, the mixing challenge was no longer there. Not that I'm a great engineer or anything, but the challenges that stopped me from mixing a song were gone. Now it all seems so easy and takes hours instead of weeks or even months to get a good song ready. LOL!
I like the tweaking aspect and Sonar taught me a lot of what I know with pc's. Though this to me is a blessing, it's also been a curse because it's forced me to learn and touch things I probably shouldn't have. I've messed up too many things from tweaking that in reality, I shouldn't have messed with at all. I can't blame Sonar for that of course, but when you start messing with something while attempting to fix something, sometimes you eat the bear...other times the bear eats you! And that bear has eaten me too many times. Hahaha! :)
-Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
|
vladasyn
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1092
- Joined: 2005/02/05 00:33:23
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 16:14:03
(permalink)
The feature I would love them to borrow from Cubase is the online recording. You can connect with partner over the internet and record in real time. That would be awesome. We all could share our skills and do the sessions for each other.
Logic had learning curve, but it was- well- logical. lol. Sonar- for me is all on surface. It is too much stuff and it makes it hard to operate. My partner (mac user) always says- I am slow. I am kind of slow, but half of the session we have to fix Sonar, other half- figure out how to edit something. Simple things like deleting some parts and keep other parts are hard to do. I would say, "Why don't you play it over and record everything again", and he would want to keep some parts, and I have hadr time to move/copy paste parts. In Logic you highlight what you need, set cursor to the location, BAM and it copied. In Sonar- it copies things in to nowhere. After Copy operation you have to go look for your sample because it may be somewhere at the end of the song. Why did it go all the way to meassure 83? because there were 16 bars empty space which it counted as a sample- go find it and then try to move- even "select" does not work easy- it selects all samples, not each one or every other one- it is so confusing. You would only feel the difference when work in other DAWs. Also I will not say which once- right now I am not sure what to switch to.
|
jbow
Max Output Level: -0.2 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7601
- Joined: 2003/11/26 19:14:18
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 16:16:18
(permalink)
In all seriousness, if you had major problems running every single version of Sonar (from v4 to X1), then I'd say the issue is very likely *not* Sonar.
I agree and I would suggest that you try one more thing... call and get some phone support from Jim. It isn't expensive and I think you would find out what is causing your problem in short order... before you give up on it. It works well for too many people. I think Jim could help you sort it out and that would be GOOD, don't you think? Another thing that 'I think' I have noticed is that a LOT of problems arise when users of X1/X2 are using the 64bit version and 32bit plugs. I am not sure about this but staying ALL 64bit seems to make a difference. I've never used anything other than Cake so I have no point of reference but I am tempted to try a Studio One and Reaper just to see. I use VST drums and some VST keys but most everything else is audio. I wonder what the best DAW for thouse who use mostly audio is... though I am happy with Sonar, I still wonder. I have no inclination to try PT. I really hope you find peace with some DAW. J
post edited by jbow - 2012/12/29 17:03:11
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
|
Danny Danzi
Moderator
- Total Posts : 5810
- Joined: 2006/10/05 13:42:39
- Location: DanziLand, NJ
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 16:17:22
(permalink)
Beepster
It is true. Sonar is quite finicky. I knew that coming into it so I accept it because it was just so much less expensive for the feature list. I was into Nuendo before and if I had the coin I probably would be again (or Cubase at least) but I don't. The nice thing though and what makes up for the finicky aspect is the support. I occasionally kvetch and moan but usually someone is there to help or I can find documentation somewhere that solves my issue and I couldn't be happier.
With the Steinberg stuff I was lost. Looking back I'm surprised I even managed to get it to do what I did. The nice thing is if I ever DO end up having a large amount of cash to spend on the higher end stuff Sonar and its user base has taught me far more than I could have ever accomplished on my own and I will certainly always keep a copy around because frankly... despite its quirks I just like the program. It's got character, yanno?
Peace.
Totally agree Beeps. If you've ever been on the other forums and see the lack of support...man, it turns you right off. Our community alone makes it worth while. Not to mention the many times Noel, Dan, Seth, Willy or one of the other Bakers has bailed me out personally. It kinda bothers me sometimes to "talk about their baby" just like it would bother me to talk about a good friend's child, ya know? But that said, if the intentions are good and the gripes are legit and explained correctly, there's really no fault in that. I've sort of been forced to use a few other DAW's lately due to client preference for those particular jobs. So you get a chance to REALLY learn about a DAW that way instead of just messing with one. If I would have never been thrown into the others, I really wouldn't know any better than Sonar to be honest. I'm glad I've worked with the others though because it gives you a fresh look at another world so to speak and from doing a few projects, you can see the differences. It's also good to have a back-up DAW because you just never know. :) But the first things I noticed were...no tweaks and the audio engine never dies and I don't have to be careful of what I do. I have this thing now with Sonar to where I feel the need to stop my playback for every thing I do. Most of my crashes come from adding plugs in real time or whatever. I can't use Steven Slate Drums to this day in Sonar without it crashing when changing presets. In every other DAW, not a problem. So as long as I stop playback in Sonar when using Slate Drums, I can change presets without a crash. Things like that are petty, but again...proof that things in Sonar are a little more delicate. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 16:37:08
(permalink)
Hmm... Have you switched to X2 yet on your big rigs, Danny? I had to totally stop playback to insert, move stuff around or even make adjustments in the PC with X1. Now I seem to be able to do all that while the track is playing without any real problems. That to me was a major bonus. I know you were holding off (and for good reason... that's your living) but I found the new audio engine is rockin'. Still though there are other things I'd be concerned about if I were in your position.
Just curious is all. Cheers, man and happy holidays.
|
jbow
Max Output Level: -0.2 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7601
- Joined: 2003/11/26 19:14:18
- Status: offline
Re:It's OVER!
2012/12/29 17:05:20
(permalink)
Beepster, FWIW... you are an inspiration. Take it for what it is worth.
J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
|