I have had a little time to experiment with this plug in, both the VST and the ProChannel modules. 
 
I used it on a drum track today, and loved it.  At first it was a little too much, but when I dialled it back a bit (and used the parallel dry/process knob), it sounded fantastic.  The EQ does have a certain "Pulteq trick" about it.
 
I also got a nice bass sound, when used sparingly.  At first I used my usual 1176/La2a mix on the bass, but then tried out the PC +10DB compressor instead, and got a great sound.  You can add some "bite", without over compressing it.
 
I have yet to try it on a vocal.
 
I think the EQ will definitely be useful for certain "colours", more like a Pultec than a standard EQ, once I have played around with it enough.  Same with the compressor.
 
I would highly recommend it if you are looking for something a little different from the other Compressors/EQs available in Sonar.  I love the PC76, Ca-2a, 4K Buss, 4K Channel and the Softube FET compressors (and the Quad Curve EQ and Softube EQs), but really like the alternative sounds that I am getting with the +10DB.
 
I put off buying it at first, thinking that I didn't need yet another compressor, but am starting to see that this one is a different beast.  I don't think that I will use it all the time, but I will get sounds out of it that the others won't provide.
 
BTW, if you want a Pultec EQ, I HIGHLY recommend the Nomad Factory Pulse Tec EQs.  Fantastic.  The Blue tube one is nice, too, but the Pulse Tec EQs is/are TRUELY AMAZING, IMHO.
 
On a side note, I emailed Boz with a query, and got a response within a couple of minutes.  Now, that's great support.

irvin
I think it's a strategic mistake by Cakewalk to be pushing these expensive offers on prospective and current users. When I came to the site, I thought this would be the first set of "goodies" available to subscribers. I was excited...until I realized this is just $100 extra...so, I'm passing on Sonar and I'm passing on these "offers" for now. I own Sonar X3 Studio so it means a $360 upgrade to the latest version. Add a few hundred for a couple of "offers" and it's probably much better to just get Komplete plus Reaper.
 
One final point: if the plugins in Sonar are good, why should people want to buy these +10db products at their regular prices? Bizarre marketing strategy by Cakewalk... 

The fact that you asked that last question means that these plugins are not aimed at you. Once you've been mixing for awhile, it becomes pretty clear that most every plugin brings something different to the table. Not necessarily better. Those differences are s.p.i.c.e.s. to be used by the mix engineer.
 
Regards,
Dan

dcumpian

irvin
I think it's a strategic mistake by Cakewalk to be pushing these expensive offers on prospective and current users. When I came to the site, I thought this would be the first set of "goodies" available to subscribers. I was excited...until I realized this is just $100 extra...so, I'm passing on Sonar and I'm passing on these "offers" for now. I own Sonar X3 Studio so it means a $360 upgrade to the latest version. Add a few hundred for a couple of "offers" and it's probably much better to just get Komplete plus Reaper.
 
One final point: if the plugins in Sonar are good, why should people want to buy these +10db products at their regular prices? Bizarre marketing strategy by Cakewalk... 

The fact that you asked that last question means that these plugins are not aimed at you. Once you've been mixing for awhile, it becomes pretty clear that most every plugin brings something different to the table. Not necessarily better. Those differences are s.p.i.c.e.s. to be used by the mix engineer.
 
Regards,
Dan

C'mon...plugins are "aimed" at anyone who can pay the price tag...lol..don't be naive...
 
That said, a strong case can be made that the best engineers use a quite limited number of tools that they know very well. Only inexperienced users think that the best engineers are constantly trying or buying different plugins for their work. The most knowledgeable ones don't need a lot of "s.p.i.c.e.s." to serve a great meal...lol...but you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

irvin
 
Relax, please. Don't go "fanboy" on me - there is no animosity toward Cakewalk. 
 
If you read my post, I never said anything about the +10db plugins (I'm a registered user of some of Boz's products, btw). I just offered feedback and you may or may not agree with it. No reason to take it so seriously. 

I'm not a "fanboy". I fully understand that Cakewalk AND Sonar have their problems, as does every DAW out today.
 
Perhaps I misunderstood(it can sometimes be difficult to interpret meaning by words alone), but I did read your post and you said:
 

irvin
 
One final point: if the plugins in Sonar are good, why should people want to buy these +10db products at their regular prices? Bizarre marketing strategy by Cakewalk... 

I simply pointed out that this set of plugs offers something different. 
 
Regardless, we may just have differing points of view. It's all good.

irvin
I think it's a strategic mistake by Cakewalk to be pushing these expensive offers on prospective and current users. When I came to the site, I thought this would be the first set of "goodies" available to subscribers.

 
You should probably wait to see what you do get with the membership before passing judgement on it. I expect the first monthly upgrade to be available before the end of February.
 
Note that this compressor is made by a third party. They have no incentive to give it to Cakewalk for next to nothing so Cakewalk can include it as part of the membership program. Think about it: If you were a Producer user who paid $149 for the upgrade, you're already getting all the difference between X3 and Platinum, as well as updates for a year. There's no way you can carve $100 out of that for a plug-in. That means all of last year's and the next year's updates are worth only $50...VocalSync alone is worth multiple times that.
 

I own Sonar X3 Studio so it means a $360 upgrade to the latest version.

 
I'm seeing $299 to upgrade to Platinum from any version of Studio.
 

Add a few hundred for a couple of "offers" and it's probably much better to just get Komplete plus Reaper.

 
But then you're stuck with Reaper However, I will say Komplete rocks.
 

One final point: if the plugins in Sonar are good, why should people want to buy these +10db products at their regular prices?

 
If Kontakt is so good (and it is), why does Komplete include a whole bunch of other soft synths? Why do guitar players use more than one guitar? Same principle.

Anderton

irvin
I think it's a strategic mistake by Cakewalk to be pushing these expensive offers on prospective and current users. When I came to the site, I thought this would be the first set of "goodies" available to subscribers.

 
You should probably wait to see what you do get with the membership before passing judgement on it. I expect the first monthly upgrade to be available before the end of February.

 
I was not passing judgement on it. I said that it gives the impression to be part of the subscription. Yes, it's a bit misleading (or confusing, your choice) at first, but upon further reading, it becomes clear this is definitely not part of the subscription benefits.
 

Anderton
 
Note that this compressor is made by a third party. They have no incentive to give it to Cakewalk for next to nothing so Cakewalk can include it as part of the membership program.
 
 

 
Who is saying otherwise? Who is saying this SHOULD be part of the subscription? Stop arguing in a dishonest way.
 

Anderton
Think about it: If you were a Producer user who paid $149 for the upgrade, you're already getting all the difference between X3 and Platinum, as well as updates for a year. There's no way you can carve $100 out of that for a plug-in. That means all of last year's and the next year's updates are worth only $50...VocalSync alone is worth multiple times that.

 
I have not said the subscription is a bad or good value. Stop the strawman arguments. I personally believe that the subscription plan is ok in the sense that it's really like 12-month financing at a low interest rate. Whether the actual price of the software is good or not is a personal decision for every user. I'm not here to say that Sonar is or is not worth X amount of dollars.
 
 

Anderton
 

I own Sonar X3 Studio so it means a $360 upgrade to the latest version.

 I'm seeing $299 to upgrade to Platinum from any version of Studio.

 
When I checked my subscription offer, it's $30 per month (29.99), which comes to $360 per year. 
 
 

Anderton

Add a few hundred for a couple of "offers" and it's probably much better to just get Komplete plus Reaper.

 
But then you're stuck with Reaper However, I will say Komplete rocks.

 
Actually, Reaper is pretty good and has at least one important feature missing in Sonar: pre-roll punch recording. The rest is pretty much the same. In fact, ALL major daws today get the job done. Some have certain things (Sonar has the nice-looking VolcalSync while Reaper doesn't) and lack others. So, nobody is really "stuck" with anything, if we are going to be honest about it. 
 

Anderton

One final point: if the plugins in Sonar are good, why should people want to buy these +10db products at their regular prices?

 
If Kontakt is so good (and it is), why does Komplete include a whole bunch of other soft synths? Why do guitar players use more than one guitar? Same principle.

 
Another way of looking at it is that it's too soon for Cakewalk to be asking people to invest in products that do what the upgrade does. Yes, no plugin is exactly the same. That does not mean people have to buy them all...get it?
At least, let the honeymoon pass before you start trying to get more money from users (you are not doing this as a public service, are you?). Nothing evil about it. Nothing illegal. Just not very smart from a marketing standpoint.
 
 
That's all.
 

Anderton

irvin
That said, I also think any third-party product offered by Cakewalk to its users should come with some sort of incentive: additional features or lower price. That's another marketing mistake (once again, in my opinion, and I might be wrong!).

Regarding a lower price, undercutting the manufacturer's price would be a terrible faux pas. The manufacturer will always make more from a direct sale than a sale through a third party. Undercutting their direct sales would end any relationship pretty quickly.
 
The "additional feature" is that Cakewalk worked with Boz to create a ProChannel version. Granted you can now download the ProChannel version if you'd already purchased the software from Boz, but the ProChannel version would have never happened without Cakewalk's involvement. Same with Softube's ProChannel plug-ins. So basically, you're voting with your wallet. You can support Boz, and that's great, because it will give them the resources to develop new plug-ins. Or you can support Cakewalk and that's also great, because it will still give some $$ to Boz but it will also give some $$ to Cakewalk, so they can continue to develop SONAR further and give them an incentive to work with companies on producing ProChannel versions of plug-ins.

 
It's up to Cakewalk to offer or not offer an incentive. It chooses to not offer one - users have to decide what to do with that decision. My point was that an incentive would probably make people more willing to shell out a good chunk of money ($100 or less, depending on the incentive)  right after paying for the upgrade. But in the end, it's Cakewalk's decision and they know what's best for them. We, consumers, can only vote with our wallet. We know what's best for us and for me, there is no buying this particular product without an incentive. 
 
I really don't understand why you adopt a very aggressive tone when faced with perfectly reasonable feedback from users. I know you work for Cakewalk and all, but the hard-line stance is not necessary...

Anderton

irvin
I really don't understand why you adopt a very aggressive tone when faced with perfectly reasonable feedback from users. I know you work for Cakewalk and all, but the hard-line stance is not necessary...

 
You're not the only one who expected the compressor to be part of the membership. I don't think anything I said was even remotely dishonest, I'm trying to explain how the economics of this works.

 
Where did you get the idea that I EXPECT the compressor to be part of the membership????
 
 
 

Anderton
 
I realize my responses are often curt but that is not out of rudeness, it's due to having very little time.

 
May be you should wait to have some more time in order to post answers - courtesy and appearances are important, specially when you are being paid to represent a company like Cakewalk. Your customers deserve it and it foster a sense of community. Otherwise, you run the risk of alienating those who support your efforts.
 
 

Anderton
Also, as to the reaction from others your initial post did seem kind of abrasive: "I think it's a strategic mistake by Cakewalk to be pushing these expensive offers on prospective and current users...One final point: if the plugins in Sonar are good, why should people want to buy these +10db products at their regular prices? Bizarre marketing strategy by Cakewalk..."
 
So I wanted to explain the rationale behind the pricing and availability as a forthright response to what you posted. I believe I did that, but if not, that was the intention.

I was providing my opinion, my feedback - and it's perfectly legitimate to agree or disagree with it. I stand by my opinion that the timing is wrong, but Cakewalk people know what's best for the company.
 
If my opinion is different from yours, just ignore it. Let people decide what points of view they embrace. For example: I have seen several users on this thread argue that they bought their $100 product because they like to have different "colors" in their mixing palette. I did not attack them, I did not tell them they are wrong because I'm of the belief that most of those decisions stem from inexperienced users belief that one more plugin will make a huge difference. I let them express their opinion (agree or disagree) without trying to prove them wrong. I respected their right to express their opinion. I expect my rights to be respected, too. That seems fair to me.

Anderton
Where you said "When I came to the site, I thought this would be the first set of 'goodies' available to subscribers." That seemed like an expectation to me but if not, okay.

I THOUGHT (not EXPECTED) it was a set of goodies available to subscribers because of the way it was presented, front and center, up there with Sonar and also based on the fact that part of the upgrade promotion campaign has been the promise of "goodies" throughout the subscription period. That does not mean I was EXPECTING it to be a part of the subscription benefits. I had an IMPRESSION, not an EXPECTATION. 
 
In any case, everybody has offered their point of view - time to let this issue go.

I have to think that there will be more cases of members reacting to CW announcements because the promotion of the new manner of releasing updates has many looking for the next bump. I have seen some talk of monthly updates, but that is not reasonable. I think changes will occur when they are ready with some taking longer than others.

Amen to that Andrew.

paulo

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
 
I will just say that third party companies like Boz work very hard and this kind of DSP is not free. They don't want these plugins selling for special incentive prices like you suggest. I think you fail to realize that software development costs money and has a value. The same goes for Cakewalk products. I've mentioned this before, but SONAR has a roadmap and we'll be putting our exciting updates on a more regular basis. Drum Replacer is coming soon and should be very impressive. That being said, we'll also be releasing other new products and they won't be part of membership. The idea that everything we do moving forward, either third party or in-house being free, is not realistic and we'd be out of business pretty soon if we did that. 
 

I don't think anybody actually expects that everything you ever bring out, particularly 3rd party products, will automatically be free from now on if you bought the "membership", I'm pretty sure that we can all grasp the fact that you have to make some money somewhere down the line and that the purchase is optional anyway, it just that the timing in this particular product wasn't the best given the way the new version was marketed with promises of exciting freebies and special surprises. I think any negativity would have been avoided if you'd said......... right, as promised, here's the first of the freebies, and then followed that up with the new additional purchase option. JMO and all that.

Paulo is right on the money.  We know everything won't be free.  We certainly aren't that naive.
But this product is the same price that it has been since it was released by Boz, and is the same
price as on the Boz website.  That means that being a Cake "member" has no advantage at all
in this case.  

We are well aware that software companies need to make money.  That's why they are in business.
But do they need to make THAT MUCH? (all relative).  

Cake could have made this available to "members" for $89.95 or offered a 10% (or even 5%) 
"membership" discount, and would have sold MANY more of these, making MORE money for 
both Cake and Boz.

This product could be sold for $49.95, would probably sell far more, and STILL make money, so
there are many factors that do have to be considered.  Look at Valhalla.  They make QUALITY
plugins and sell them for $50....

The "membership" model was supposed to give us a "membership" advantage, and, in this case, didn't
do anything.  THAT, and the timing of availability, are the issues.

Good Morning...
 
I went back through all of the threads/articles I found relating to "Boz" and did not find one reference to this being a part of membership. It was never in the announcements about the new features coming for members section either. It did come out two weeks after the new version of Sonar was released and this seems to be the root of the confusion??. We have discussed the price as it relates to the cost of updating (Producer to Platinum members only). I find this entertaining and odd because for example .. the Soft Tube bundle has always been more than the cost of the upgrade from my recollection.  As have some of the bigger DSF Pieces (Songwriters) comes to mind. And I do not recall much negativity around those. Melodyne's upgrade offer to Editor is another example that comes to mind.
 
What this does say to me as one who has updated from Producer to Equivalent level is that Sonar is a very good value in this sense. If someone from the Cake side had said, inferred, loosely referenced that the Boz product was a part of membership, I could understand this issue better.  It also implies that we are now assuming that we influence the business decisions of 2 independent companies...ie.. Boz and Cake have an established agreement on pricing and distribution.
 
We also should consider that it has not been a Month since the release of Sonar. I don't recall Cake saying that we would get items every single Month in a given interval around a certain time. Therefore (to me)They are still within a very reasonable time frame to deliver whatever goodies based upon the given information.  (Even if no freebies come in February, March or April IMHO) :)
 
My takeaway's from this are boringly obvious....
- Cakewalk may have to clearly announce what is membership related and what is not. An ie.. in the Store a tag that indicates membership pricing/non membership pricing.  Another or the same tag may be on items to clearly indicate "standard" or non membership vs specific items available to both groups.
- All  Market announcements should indicate its relationship to the member ship program including informing that it is not.
- Cakewalk may consider preemptively addressing the condition of if we did not say it, what issue(s) can come from that. (Could expend valuable energy but reduce residual headaches)
- As a consumer, I may want to allow flexibility in the information given in that I do not (boost or attenuate) :) from what is given.
- If given some specific conditions, some flexibility is useful until a time arrives when an actual breach occurs. An example I guess would be if one makes a loan to an associate with the terms being that it is repaid in a year (365 days. If the associate makes 12 equal payments every month, 4 payments every quarter, or one big payment in the eleventh month (Based upon stated teams)... The agreement is still good unless the amount is not paid in full at the end of the year (365 days).
 
I am starting to ramble so.. I digress.

paulo

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
 
I will just say that third party companies like Boz work very hard and this kind of DSP is not free. They don't want these plugins selling for special incentive prices like you suggest. I think you fail to realize that software development costs money and has a value. The same goes for Cakewalk products. I've mentioned this before, but SONAR has a roadmap and we'll be putting our exciting updates on a more regular basis. Drum Replacer is coming soon and should be very impressive. That being said, we'll also be releasing other new products and they won't be part of membership. The idea that everything we do moving forward, either third party or in-house being free, is not realistic and we'd be out of business pretty soon if we did that. 
 

I don't think anybody actually expects that everything you ever bring out, particularly 3rd party products, will automatically be free from now on if you bought the "membership", I'm pretty sure that we can all grasp the fact that you have to make some money somewhere down the line and that the purchase is optional anyway, it just that the timing in this particular product wasn't the best given the way the new version was marketed with promises of exciting freebies and special surprises. I think any negativity would have been avoided if you'd said......... right, as promised, here's the first of the freebies, and then followed that up with the new additional purchase option. JMO and all that.

+1


That has been my point all along, Paulo. Thanks for making it so clear!