Is the glass have empty or have full????  Perception is reality and preference is simply a matter of choice - wherever, with your preference make meaningful music, melody and money...

dorism
Cubase 7 installed - i thought I'd share my first impressions

Great list!  I must say for the first time I'm tempted.  If Steinberg actively and PUBLICLY collects known issues/bugs, and puts out minor versions as needed, that would heavily tip the scale in their favor. 
 
I love X2 overall, but I am disillusioned by it not getting a single bug fix release in 2013!  And even worse, there is no way to tell what bugs are even recognized by Roland.  So, are our issues being worked on or not?  The more you stuff into a release, and the longer the development cycle, the more chance new bugs will be introduced.
 
Transparency is a huge selling point, I cannot stress that enough.  (hence bold AND italic )  Does Roland feel the opposite?  That hiding out and randomly releasing a bunch of "perks" is a better business plan?  Has anybody seen how Steinberg handles this crucial business practice?

Beepster
That does sound very nice and I wish money weren't an object. Couple of questions...
 
How well does it deal with notation input?
 
Is there something similar to FX chains?
 
I'm curious about your comment on FX bins. How are insert effects handled and is there a limit to the amount of inserts per channel?
 
How does it handle the GUIs of VSTs/effects/synth/etc? I find the multi-dock to be ever so crucial to keep things organized and clean.
 
I know Pro Channel is kind of unique to Cake but are there any kind of comprehensive tools directly on the channels like EQ or compression?
 
Does it support busses? I ask this because I know Pro Tools uses a different method for bussing and to me it's not how I would like to work.
 
I could probably ask a ton more questions but that's probably too many as it is. I love the Sonar way for so many reasons but my old Steinberg stuff never failed to just do what it was supposed to.
 
Cheers.

- Haven't looked at notation yet - but its supposed to be light years ahead of Sonar
- yes there are fxchains
- inserts are handled in the inspector - 7 inserts which I presume is a limit - you also have strip fx - a bit like pro channel. Saturation, eq, transient shaper, compressor, gate and limiter. These are built in and can be enabled on request.
- vst and vsti handing -  basically 'pop up' in their own windows - you can't dock them as fas as I can tell.
- pro channel - see above
- buses are handled like sonar - you can route tracks to a bus, route buses to buses and have send buses. They appear in the track view under a folder so you don't need to maximise it.
 

Pretty much agree with dorism's list. The one thing I really (really really) don't like is all the floating VST windows.
 
This is not new for me. I equally disliked them in pre-X series Sonar also.
 
The other thing I'm unsure of is some of the more advanced tools for 'Pro-Studio' owners like the mix bus and the ability to make connections to outside studios. That has to be a contributing factor for the cost of the program and not really something that I can use though admittedly others can.
 
In the end I've been spending more time in Sonar that the Q.
 
Regards,

Double post

J4R10
  Hi guys,
 
Well, I've been using Sonar since Sonar 7, and last year when X2 came out I decided to wait and see and not to upgrade from X1d - at least immediately. Let me explain why.
 
X2 seems to be very buggy. I've been reading this forum and found out that it would be unwise to upgrade. I'm in the middle of recording/mixing and I don't want to upgrade only to find out that my projects doesn't work anymore. I think it's just too risky. I'm almost done with mixing our debut album but I've decided not to upgrade when it's finished. Instead of upgrading I've been thinking to try Cubase 7. Why? Well, let me explain you why. :)
 
First of all, If I buy a new DAW I don't want to install any LE/DEMO version of ANY kind of music software or plugins. If I found out that I don't need them, they're still on my computer part of that DAW. To put it simply: I think Cakewalk should develope their own plugins/reverb/ampsims, not to promote third party plugins as part of their DAW package. If I want to buy third party plugins I know where to find them.
 
I don't want to pay $100 for improved Smart Tool or touch screen support. I can do all my audio file cuts and clips with X1.
 
So what else Sonar X2 has to offer?
 
Breverb. I have ValhallaRoom, ValhallaVintageVerb and ValhallaShimmer. They're great. One day I will purchase Altiverb.
 
Overloud TH2. I have Amplitube.
 
Upgraded mastering tools. I have T-RackS Grand.
 
Session Drummer 3. I have Superior Drummer 2.0.
 
True Piano. I have Reason 6.5 with Abbey Road Keyboards.
 
ProChannel Console Emulator. I have Waves Abbey Road REDD, T-RackS British Channel and I'm thinking of buying Slate VCC.
 
And what comes to ProChannel, I purchased every ProChannel module there is only to find out that I don't need them. I prefer T-RackS' compressors and limiters.
 
And last but not least: I don't want to buy a DAW that is not stable.
 
So, why I should upgrade to X2? To get buggy DAW and LE software I don't need? Thanks, but no thanks. I think Cakewalk should rethink their concept of DAW. Now it seems to me that they didn't spend enough time beta testing and they kinda rushed an unifinished product out to be released. And I've said it before but I say it again: please keep the future versions of Sonar free from all those third party software and plugins.
 
When I'm working I want to record music and work with stable DAW - not to report crash bugs to support. Don't get me wrong: I use Sonar X1 daily and I think Sonar X1 is the best DAW I've ever used.
 
Edit: Paragraphs with IE (hope it works).

 
WOW!!! Take it from me what can I say Cubase 7 is just amazing!
A lot has happen in 6 years. WOW!
 
Sonar X2 is not bad ...not at all its a great DAW but its not like Cubase 7. Cubase 7 is something else! WOW!!! Professional DAW!
Some say the GUI is ugly but it isn't. The last version is 7.0.4 is complete overhaul compare to some old pictures. You can now color anything inside Cubase 7 to own liking like in the good days in SONAR 8.5. The whole GUI interface! So if you like color customization welcome to Cubase 7.
Mixer, Track-view, anything. The "Tracks" can get color like in PRO TOOLS even the mixer faders can you color on own liking. EQ, Sends what ever.. 
 
 
And the mixer and the EQ. WOW!!! Works and sound like a dream. The Cubase 7 EQ is in world-class quality. SONAR Pro Channels EQ is and sound great too, Cubase 7 EQ is something like it. Perhaps Steinberg has even taken it even further.
I get the feeling that Cubase 7 sounds better then SONAR too?
It works better no doubt about it. Haven't crash once yet. Nothing, stable as rock! MIDI tight, Audio engine tight, No drop outs! Total glitch free and +100 of advance functions you can just dream on... nested Maps, VARI 2.0, VST3, Automation, Quick controls, Cord track, Support of DAW Control hardware etc.. WOW
 
 
I'm hooked for life at least for a long long time! 
I have now also bought Steinberg CMC DAW controller too all 6 controllers. WOW, sweet... touch interface future controls!
I don't regret I went back to Cubase platform...I'm glad I did!
 
 
Best Regards
Freddie
 

I once or twice tried using all plugins in MultiDock, but I could only see the upper half of big GUIs like Kontakt and EAReberb because I wanted to see the Track View at the same time. And it didn't allow me to scroll down the GUI (maybe I did it wrong?). While MultiDock is very good for showing other views in one place, I think Sonar needs a tabbed plugin window like Reaper, S1, etc. (as an option).

groovey1

Jlien X
... While MultiDock is very good for showing other views in one place, I think Sonar needs a tabbed plugin window like Reaper, S1, etc. (as an option).

I haven't tried it yet, but I think floating the MultiDock could give you something similar.

On second thought, I'm not really sure if a tabbed plugin window is better than multiple plugin windows with Sonar's ability to hide them individually by Shift + X (X-ray). I like how Screensets remember the positions of plugin windows (would be even better if they remembered the state of the transparency) and I can hover the mouse cursor over the plugin window and just press Shift + X to show/hide it. I wonder if Cubase has X-ray as well.

It's just me but I love, love, love the multi-dock.
 
Opinions vary of course...
 
Regards,

stevec

mmorgan
It's just me but I love, love, love the multi-dock.
 
Opinions vary of course...
 

Same here.   It's sort of like the Smart Tool - some love it, others do not.   The direction CW has taken with the X series works for me, and as long as it keeps working for me I will use it.  I guess I just don't care much about trying other DAWs.    Plus, I was reading a thread about Cubase 7 on KVR earlier this morning that had it's fair share of bug and implementation complaints.    Grass, meet green.

 
Steve and Mike do you store plugin windows in MultiDock, too? I'm using a laptop so I have to maximize MutiDock and hide Control Bar to show all of Z3ta+2 GUI (trial version for me). I love MultiDock for having views like PRV, Event List, Markers window in one place, but I'm not sure if it's good for plugin window management... 

The multidock works better on a 2nd monitor. I have nothing but the control bar and track window on my main monitor, and on the 2nd I have the multidock maximized. I use it to keep the browser, the console and select plugs.

sharke
The multidock works better on a 2nd monitor. I have nothing but the control bar and track window on my main monitor, and on the 2nd I have the multidock maximized. I use it to keep the browser, the console and select plugs.

Ah, I see. I always forget the idea of using a 2nd monitor, as I don't have space to put it. 

BTW, not a fanboy! LOL! I did have quite a problem transitioning over to 64 bit with older projects.

Notation and Expression Maps put Cubase years ahead of Sonar and are the main reasons I'm switching to Cubase 7.  Sonar's notation is barely a toy compared to Cubase.  I didn't know how far ahead it was until I started using it.  I will need Sibelius far less now.  With expression maps i am finally free form the tyranny of keyswitches! I just pull the articulation from a graphical menu!  That's even better than Sibelius' workflow.
 
There are other things I am discovering in Cubase - chord tracks, recording directly into Cubase from the internet etc...   I find the Cubase 7 mixer far more efficient and more customizable  than Sonar's.  Also it's scalable so I can actually see everything at once!  There are also things Sonar does better.  Sonar's docking is nice and it's track hiding is more versatile etc,,, but the best thing it has going for it is no dongle.  I, however, am willing to put up with a dongle because I need advanced functions that Sonar simply doesn't have.  If Cakewalk had shown the slightest interest in improving the staff view I would probably never have tried Cubase.  I'll still use Sonar for my gig and teaching since since I'd be using my laptop and don't want to worry about a dongle but I can't see me ever going back to Sonar for creative work.

sharke
The one thing I will say that I hate about the Multidock is that you cannot rearrange your tabs. That is such a bone-headed design flaw, given that the whole point of the Multidock is to keep your project organized. Being able to shuffle tabs around is pretty much standard GUI functionality now - people do it in their browsers and could be forgiven for assuming that you can do it in Sonar as well, upon first glance. That's how it went for me anyway. I saw those tabs and thought "let me put those in a different order" and I was just baffled when I couldn't do it. 

Totally agree.