....so he had the final word, in the end.... with a new further "lesson"... this time about his distinction about his valuable "bickering" in comparison with useless mine.... 

...ok... I'm done... whatever is good.... long as that's the END of it.........    

Quite elequently stated gothic.angel.  Thank you.

gothic.angel

John

Biker, c'mon.... do us a favour.... stop it.... this way you are just proving I'm right..... The confusion sounds yours.... thus keep in mind: ...You are NOT the master of threads... You have no power to tell anybody how the threads should be devoleped... ...no matter your posts count or whatever.... you are not supposed to correct anybody's thoughts, requests or lists here....!!! ...just give it a cut..!!! ...now, if you wanna have the last word, get it.... it will be easy, as you seem to be connected 24x7....... ...I'm tired of your arrogance, and this time I'm leaving.... in order to not waste further space and eventually let guys post their PERSONAL lists.... to Cakewalk....... Goodbye.........

I don't know it seems to me the OP of a thread would have a good idea what he/she wants from that thread. This would apply to one seeking help or one looking for a discussion. Either way the thread starter has a certain control over what should be posted. One big reason for the off topic idea. True on this forum an OP has no actual control but general courtesy would preclude introducing ideas that are not under discussion. Although I fully understand where you are coming from if the OP tries to make a valid distinction between what is sought and what another wants to interject one must to be civil accept that. The option to start a thread is always open to anyone. 

Hi John.....

I think that's quite reasonable... but I'm also quite sure you got my point...

...my reaction, anyway, was due to a specific unpleasant behaviour.... not opinions or ideas.... 
...that behaviour being some folks (too often) having the bad attitude of denying, or at least diminishing others' points as "not relevant/not properly put"...
...it might possibly be involuntary arrogance, but it's still arrogance..... 

C'mon, it's under the sun...... soon as someone posts for requests that express some dissatisfaction about X1, They pop-up in the attempt to persuade people that it's not true... and those requests are not necessary... even remarking how "improperly" they might be expressed (...!!!).... 

Well, I believe that attitude is not fair... 

I think they should simply put their personal requests on the table, instead of minding to destroy the others'....
...or they ought to have the "general courtesy" to stay off, if not interested at all...


My true respect, Steve.


PS:   I apologize with everybody for having to come over this again....

I think that it is time to seriously consider that some of those naysayers are plants. As in hired guns.
 
This forum has not been the same in several years and it is evident that many of the forum posts are not legitmate but attempts at spin control. The Sonar slide has been mercurial - at least since the most valued programmer left. That's my opinion and I'm sticking by it.

FastBikerBoy

Glad you've got it sorted.

We could argue all day about whether it was included because of complaining on here or because of feature requests being submitted but it's there so that seems a little pointless.

Ah ... but it wasn't there in X1. It was taken away and then given back and labeled as a free 'Improvement' because people were upset that the capability was removed.

This is me thinking aloud Bub so don't think it's all aimed at you.......... (* see below)

I have a vested interest in making sure that CW as a company is successful as possible, as should anyone who uses their software.

The reason for that attitude is simple, I'm selfish. The more successful they are, the better the programs become, the better I can work. The less likely I am to have to move to another program at an expense to me. I'm the way I am to save me money.

All I want is the software I paid for to work the way it was advertised to work. The rest would take care of itself if CW would do the right thing by their customers. If you were so concerned about money, you'd be a little more vocal in getting X1 fixed before you were forced to upgrade to X2 for a fee.

I'm not blind to bugs, as I've been accused of, I think my personal bug report count for X1 is somewhere between 20 & 30. Apart from the latest batch in X1c and some related to the MCU they have all been fixed so far. I post on here and list the steps to reproduce them then report them. What I don't do is post everywhere about the same old thing over & over. I also try and make sure that it's not user error and if I'm having trouble doing something I check the manual and experiment with the various ways of achieving something to see what works best for me. SO far the only bug in the whole life of X1 that I haven't found a simple work round for was the bug that made it impossible to print from the staff view. At the same time many were declaring the program 'unusable' because of the same bugs. My attitude is "I don't have problems, only opportunities to create solutions" - that has served me very well through life so far.

This is just spinning around in circles to take focus away from the fact that there were things broken in X1. Just because you have found a way to not use the broken functions doesn't mean they are not there. I don't know how else to put it so you would understand that? I can avoid the headlights being broken in my brand new car by only driving in the daytime. Does that make the fact that the headlights were not functioning when I was sold the car ok? Does that make it any less a legitimate problem for folks who drive at night because you just tell them to only drive during the day?

If I really thought that life was going to better on the "other side" I'd be there, junk Sonar, and move on - honest I would. I certainly wouldn't be on here complaining about everything and saying how much better xyz is but then I have a life.

I have never used any other DAW software besides Sonar. I tried Reaper and I didn't like it. I have never used any synth's except the ones that come with Sonar with the exception of a free one from Native Instruments. I've never used any VST's other than the ones that come with Sonar with the exception of a free Waves Limiter clone and a couple free ones from Voxengo and iZotope. So financially, my loyalty has always been with Cakewalk.

My working methods have changed quite a bit since X1 was released and in most cases it's been for the better, even if at first it seemed alien. I think I can safely say that none of those changes have made my workflow slower. In fact I have speeded up beyond belief.

Good for you. Obviously not everyone feels that way though. And don't forget, you and I (and everyone else) had the same work flow up until 8 months ago, and these kind of discussions didn't come up with anywhere near the frequency they do with X1.

The trouble I have with some announcing that this is missing, this doesn't work, etc etc is that lurkers read a lot of these factually incorrect posts form an opinion and don't buy/upgrade. Hence hurting my selfish interests. Case in point HERE

The only reason this troubles you so much is, because most of it's true. If you could come on here and counter everything that people say that is negative about X1 and be 100% right and set them straight, there would be no problem now would there? You're just upset because 99% of the things people say here are valid concerns and you can't counter them except to spin it in a way that discredits them. They may not be your opinion, but they are valid just the same and people can see through the spin some folks put out there trying to defend X1. And honestly, X1 isn't all that bad. They just need to bring back some of the things they took away. Right now it's right on the verge of being something really great.

In my other thread that as you said correctly "has an agenda" (but incorrectly called hidden) I'm just trying to make a point. That is someone posts on here "I can't split without more clicks" I and others point out "Yes you can hold Alt+click". The OP then says but "I don't want to do that it doesn't suit me" for whatever reason. So they've posted a question, got an answer then moved the goalposts. That's exactly what I've done in the 'agenda' thread. Posted a question, got some answers, and then moved the goalposts. All rather pointless really isn't it? What does it achieve - absolutely nothing other than lost customers, lost revenue for CW and ultimately hurts me.

(* see above) Ok, so this is directed at me even though you said it wasn't. The point is ... if you have to add a second hand to do the job that one hand could do in previous versions, people are going to see that as less productive and more cumbersome.

For example, and I've used this before, I'm a guitar player. I sit at my desk, acoustic mic's off to the side of me, acoustic guitar strapped on me, boom mic off to the side, everything positioned correctly (which is a nightmare for acoustic) and I could perform every single function I needed in 8.5 with just my right hand and a mouse click without moving. (I play left handed so my right hand is free.) I can't do that with X1 and it's a problem at times.

I suppose if I started doing stretching exercises and was able to contort my wrist in an unnatural fashion, I could train myself to use my right hand to hold down ALT and SHIFT while I'm clicking with the same hand.

See I'm all me, me, me.......................... That has been confirmed by both my ex-wifes BTW so I know it's true.

It's obvious you don't care about anyone else but yourself. That's why you are working so hard to put everyone down that takes a different approach to their work flow than you do, which by the way, was the same workflow we all used as well up until 8 months ago.

Do you think it's accurate to say the majority of Sonar users are project studio users? I would say so. People like that want to tweak and have customization abilities ... that's what made 8.5 and previous version so great for me, and that's why Reaper is so popular. And no, it's not because Reaper is free ... Reaper is not free after the 30 day evaluation period.

Well, anyway, we've both made our points and it's clear you have alterior motives and aren't really willing to say anyone has a legitimate concern other than yourself. So it's time to move along as it's impossible to have any type of serious conversation with someone like that.

John

Yes X1 has changed radically. I don't think anyone has denied that.  You will need to learn how it works now. That does not mean that a function is no longer available though.

And here is the crux of the problem we have going on here, and that is, there is a difference between 'function' and 'capability' that some are not understanding.

For example ... Is the 'function' of being able to resize my Track View still in X1? You betchya!

Am I 'capable' of clicking a single button and resizing it like I could in 8.5, absolutely not.

Therefor, I am no longer 'capable' of performing the 'function' in X1 like I could in 8.5. That is lost capability.

Now, that said, some 'functions' are quicker in X1 and some are quicker in 8.5. The crux to the other problem we have going on here is, some people are refusing to acknowledge that.

Clicking 1 button to expand track view in 8.5 is quicker than looking down at my keyboard, holding SHIFT with one finger and finding F with the other, as trivial as that may be, it still takes more effort. That's just one example, I could give more but then my head would explode and I don't want to give you that satisfaction. LOL! :)

For undo use ctrl+Z. For redo use ctrl+shift+Z or goto the edit menu. The manual is your friend.

That is a basic Windows function and nothing to do with Sonar. Just like the file menu, etc ...

John

Clicking 1 button to expand track view in 8.5 is quicker than looking down at my keyboard, holding SHIFT with one finger and finding F with the other, as trivial as that may be, it still takes more effort. That's just one example, I could give more but then my head would explode and I don't want to give you that satisfaction. LOL! :)

Try double clicking on the track header.

Not what I'm talking about. But since you brought that up, it's a bit funky now in X1c. They reduced the area you can double click in and it's very hard to do now.

What I'm talking about is making it so all of your tracks fit in to the Track View. You could do that with 1 click in 8.5. Now you have to hold SHIFT + F because they removed all the buttons from the Tool Bar.

Hold SHIFT + F in Track View and you'll see what I'm talking about. :)

So it's time to move along as it's impossible to have any type of serious conversation with someone like that.

You know Bub, you're right. After I got sorta sucked into these type of threads not long after X1 came out I realised some people plain just don't like the software, and apparently never will.

I then decided just to get on with making some music, not get involved in the "X1 is broke/worse than, etc.etc" threads where some troll, some like to wallow in self pity, or just plain complain.

Anyway I've seen the light, again. I'm getting on with making music and spending my time on here trying to help those that I can. I'll only be commenting in the threads where someone is asking for help and I feel I can from now on.

You can rattle on all day about how crap it all is, I won't be bothering to argue about it any more.

Good luck in the job.

FBB you should reconsider. I for one would be lost without you're being around in these threads. But even though that is no good reason there is a good one and that is letting them win. They have tried to wear us down as one of their tactics. If you don't engage them we will have one less voice of reason to counter them. I know it gets old quick and it requires us to repeat ourselves but they will take over the forum if none us do anything about it. 

John


FBB you should reconsider. I for one would be lost without you're being around in these threads. But even though that is no good reason there is a good one and that is letting them win. They have tried to wear us down as one of their tactics. If you don't engage them we will have one less voice of reason to counter them. I know it gets old quick and it requires us to repeat ourselves but they will take over the forum if none us do anything about it. 

 
Sheesh John, don't you think that's just a little melodramatic?
 
"Letting them win"? There's no 'winning' or 'losing' - no battle lines to be drawn. There's nothing tangible at stake here.
 
Surely everybody just wants the software to work, period. We're all on the same side, surely?
 
For people experiencing genuine problems, the last thing they want to hear is a fanboi telling them the product is nigh on flawless.
 
John, I have a hell of a lot of respect for your DAW-related knowledge, and your willingness to share it with others. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, you convey the impression to me anyway, that if Cakewalk sent you a turd in a box and called it SONAR, you'd be on here defending it to the hilt within minutes.
 
Generally speaking, bad press is what gets things changed, not a sycophantic acceptance of what your given. Cakewalk don't need apologists - they can fight their own battles. But they do need people - the paying customer - telling them what likes and dislikes they have, what works and what doesn't work. This helps any product improve.
 
That's not to say people shouldn't say they love the product and want to tell everyone how well it performs, but we do need balance. Anyone who's shelled out their hard earned cash for X1 should be able to pass any comment about their experience with it, good or bad, in these forums. Provided, obviously, that such comments fall within the constraints of the TOS.
 
I know you're genuinely passionate about Cakewalk, and these forums - but your comments above seem to me very devicive. If one of our much-admired elder statesmen is inciting others to join him in perpetuating an 'us and them' mindset around here, then I find that very sad indeed. 
 
 
 

John


Not just because you have your facts right but because you express them in a confrontational manner. I know how hard that is.

Are you for real?

I cannot find the snappy reply button nor can I find the virtual talent button. I hope you folks will continue to post because I am going to need you all.

Seriously, is this thread still going strong? Maybe we could do a system restore and reset to like... last Saturday. I realize that I don't contribute much but I learn by reading what you guys post. So I hope none of you stop. 

Julien

lichtentunes


I've only been using X1 for a few days, but here are the missing (or hard to find or implement) functions that have been driving me up a wall so far:

1. Envelopes:  Now the only way I can add an envelope is by using my mouse to raise and lower faders in console view while in write automation mode.

 Sorry - that is not correct . See page 466 of the X1 Reference Guide: 


To draw automation freehand 1. Set the track’s Edit Filter control to the desired automation parameter (Track Automation or 
Clip Automation).
2. With the Freehand tool , drag to insert envelope nodes and segments.

I think the new way of accessing envelopes stumps everyone who is new to X1, and they discover how the Edit Filter works.

SteveStrummerUK

John


Not just because you have your facts right but because you express them in a confrontational manner. I know how hard that is.

Are you for real?

Thanks Steve. Its corrected now. It was a typo.

John

What I see is a very few that hate X1 and will do anything they can to destroy it.

What I see is someone who needs a loooooooong rest.

vintagevibe


I suppose if I want a "List of capabilities that have been removed in X1" I'll have to start another thread.

Well the count is 2 so your thread will be a short one.