abacab
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MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
I have been looking at a few options for MIDI scale and chord assistance. I recently got the Ample Music Bass with the riffer, and that is quite cool. But I have also been looking at a few options to deal with more of the instruments in a song arrangement, mostly something simple to use as a scratchpad for ideas and to experiment with scales and chord progressions. Not really looking for a DAW, but something to start an idea in, then import to Sonar to polish it. Something less complex than BIAB for example, and keeping the budget under $100 would be a major factor. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome!  I have played with Sundog Scale Studio v2 ($49) demo for a few days, and it seems promising. It seems that they have a version 3 coming out next week. I will check that out. http://feelyoursound.com/sundog/ How to quickly come up with new Chord Progressions in your Studio (Sundog) The other apps for chord assistance I am looking into are: Cubase Elements 9 - ($99 - demo available) with arranger track, chord track, and chord editor, Circle of Fifths, comes with Halion Sonic SE, and supports external VSTs). https://www.steinberg.net...cubase-elements-9.html How to Use the Chord Track in Cubase Elements | Getting Started with Cubase Elements 9 RapidComposer (on sale $139, demo available, just downloaded it) http://www.musicdevelopments.com/index.html RapidComposer Tutorial Part 1 (Introduction)
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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/07 19:25:15
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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/07 19:26:28
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Should also have added Band in a Box of course!
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/07 19:29:45
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You can install Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol software for free. This had recently neen updated with many more scales, I use it with a NI keyboard. I know a lot of functionality is availabe with any keyboard but I am not sure how much of the auto scale and chord generation functions will work but I suspect most will. Certainly worth a try. Its also worth checking out Autotheory http://www.autotheory.net/
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scook
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/07 19:37:59
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TheMaartian
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/07 21:29:26
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Glyn Barnes
...
Its also worth checking out Autotheory http://www.autotheory.net/
...
I have to recommend AGAINST this one, not because of its capabilities or lack thereof, but because it installs a multi-channel MIDI pipe (like LoopBe or LoopMIDI) that there is NO WAY to uninstall. And it can muck things up in certain circumstances. Another user confirmed this with the developer. I have yet to see an update the provides a proper uninstall.
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TheMaartian
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/07 21:35:34
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scook
http://www.chordpulse.com/index.html
I quite like Chord Pulse. Sure wish the dev would post another update with additional Styles, but there are plenty to get started. FWIW, I successfully dragged an 80-bar tune out of Chord Pulse into Odesi. Mapped perfectly.
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/07 22:40:02
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ZincTrumpet
Thanks abacab, some more to add to my list!
Seriously, I have been making a list on my phone as I usually have that with me when I see ideas /suggestions.
These are what I had...
Obscurium
Cthulu
Odesi http://odesi.mixedinkey.com/howtoguide
Chordmaps2 (ipad) - also see http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/chartmaps.htm
Navichord (ipad) - using the free demo at the moment and it's impressive. Will definitely pay a few pounds for the full version which allows MIDI output.
Chordy (and ChordyMidi) ipad
Tonespace http://www.mucoder.net/en/tonespace/
Hookpad...
https://www.hooktheory.com/hookpad
Sorry typing this on phone.
I found another one the other day but can't remember the name, think it began with M (will check my browser history).
Cheers
ZT
Hey Zinc, thanks for the additional suggestions! I have looked into a couple of these, but many of them I will need to check out. Cthulhu looks interesting, but I reckon it's strongest skillset is as an arpeggiator. I watched a video with the developer and a DJ, deadmau5, going to town with it. Looked cool though! The dev studied piano growing up and has included hundreds of the Bach chorales among the included patterns! Odesi also looks very interesting, but it appears to be a web only application. Will have to check out the others ...
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/07 23:05:04
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ZincTrumpet
Should also have added Band in a Box of course!
Good call, Zinc! Band in a Box is remarkable, and I already have that. But I am seeking something different than an auto accompaniment tool. With BIAB, you pick a style and plug in a chord progression, and it generates the backing tracks. I like the way BIAB will follow the chords you plug in and alter the arrangement if you change the chords. For one thing, I just want a tool that will let me create the backing tracks, but still shift the harmonic structure of all tracks if I decide to change key or the chords, like BIAB, or Liquid Notes. I also have Liquid Notes, which is awesome if you already have a multi-track MIDI arrangement and you want to experiment with reharmonization. It will list suggested chord variations and shift all tracks to your chosen chord. But you already need to have a piece fairly well constructed and then import that via MIDI file for it to work its magic. "Load the MIDI tracks of your projects into Liquid Notes and have them harmonically analyzed providing you with the corresponding chord symbols and a combined piano roll view of the notes in all tracks. Regardless of the complexity and style of the arrangement, Liquid Notes provides an accurate harmonic analysis of your music. And it establishes a solid base for the changes and alterations you may want to make to selected tracks or an entire song. Lay down the foundation to a new tune in no time! The software offers a wealth of revolutionary and creative music making features. You can transform the chords and harmonic progression to your liking, use the convenient drop-down chord selector, change the basic functionality and directionality of any chord, and spice up the flavor of your music by adding varying degrees of tension and harmonic color to your chords with the simple twist of a knob." So what I'm saying is that I'm really looking for something to help start an idea from a blank sheet of paper, but with the structure of scales and chords to put a framework around what I plug in, in case I get stupid, LOL! I'm also not looking for a one key chord player, or auto-accompaniment. I have a cheap Yamaha keyboard that can do that ...
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 00:16:32
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 00:18:58
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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 07:31:22
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abacab
Hey Zinc, thanks for the additional suggestions! I have looked into a couple of these, but many of them I will need to check out.
Cthulhu looks interesting, but I reckon it's strongest skillset is as an arpeggiator. I watched a video with the developer and a DJ, deadmau5, going to town with it. Looked cool though! The dev studied piano growing up and has included hundreds of the Bach chorales among the included patterns!
Odesi also looks very interesting, but it appears to be a web only application.
Will have to check out the others ...
No probs abacab :-) I have Cthulu and use it mainly for alternative chord ideas. The arp side does look very good but I still have to explore that. The dev (Steve Duda) is a cool dude (ahem). This series of vids are interesting and he discusses amongst other things how he came to make BFD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOUkI5hH2HY&t=1486s Odesi is one that I still need to explore.
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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 07:54:39
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☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/04/11 13:42:58
abacab
Good call, Zinc!
Band in a Box is remarkable, and I already have that. But I am seeking something different than an auto accompaniment tool. With BIAB, you pick a style and plug in a chord progression, and it generates the backing tracks. I like the way BIAB will follow the chords you plug in and alter the arrangement if you change the chords.
For one thing, I just want a tool that will let me create the backing tracks, but still shift the harmonic structure of all tracks if I decide to change key or the chords, like BIAB, or Liquid Notes.
I also have Liquid Notes, which is awesome if you already have a multi-track MIDI arrangement and you want to experiment with reharmonization. It will list suggested chord variations and shift all tracks to your chosen chord. But you already need to have a piece fairly well constructed and then import that via MIDI file for it to work its magic.
"Load the MIDI tracks of your projects into Liquid Notes and have them harmonically analyzed providing you with the corresponding chord symbols and a combined piano roll view of the notes in all tracks. Regardless of the complexity and style of the arrangement, Liquid Notes provides an accurate harmonic analysis of your music. And it establishes a solid base for the changes and alterations you may want to make to selected tracks or an entire song. Lay down the foundation to a new tune in no time!
The software offers a wealth of revolutionary and creative music making features. You can transform the chords and harmonic progression to your liking, use the convenient drop-down chord selector, change the basic functionality and directionality of any chord, and spice up the flavor of your music by adding varying degrees of tension and harmonic color to your chords with the simple twist of a knob."
So what I'm saying is that I'm really looking for something to help start an idea from a blank sheet of paper, but with the structure of scales and chords to put a framework around what I plug in, in case I get stupid, LOL!
I'm also not looking for a one key chord player, or auto-accompaniment. I have a cheap Yamaha keyboard that can do that ...
I mentioned BIAB not because of it's "auto-accompaniment" abilities but because of it's ability to generate melody and chords from nothing, literally. Wasn't sure whether you were aware of it; the Melodist. I have created a few song ideas from this and found it quick and the results good (screenshot below). Once generated I don't work within BIAB (or Realband) but export the results (usually MIDI) to your DAW and expand the ideas from there.  Also the Chord Builder is now much enhanced with possible chords suggested based on music theory...  Funnily enough I bought Liquid Notes at Christmas but didn't install it when I found out it installed LoopBe. I had previously purchased AutoTheory which as TheMaartian mentions installs a multi-channel MIDI pipe thing which is a nuisance to uninstall. I was eventually able to uninstall it through device manager (SBVmidi virtual midi driver). I also don't like how AutoTheory starts up outside of the DAW and requires adjustment of DAW MIDI settings to use it. I really want something that you just insert on a track within the DAW. Cheers ZT
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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 08:24:00
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abacab
Cubase Elements 9 - ($99 - demo available) with arranger track, chord track, and chord editor, Circle of Fifths, comes with Halion Sonic SE, and supports external VSTs). https://www.steinberg.net...cubase-elements-9.html
This looks good, thanks abacab. My audio interface came with Cubase AI 8 and that allows me to upgrade to Cubase Elements 9 for 40 UK pounds. Very tempted (one more DAW to add to SPlat, Studio One, Reaper and Mixbus :) I have added a few more links to my first reply btw. Also added Air Ignite.
post edited by ZincTrumpet - 2017/04/08 08:51:41
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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 08:32:26
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scook
http://www.chordpulse.com/index.html
I like the simplicity of operation of this and it looks like it can create good results from the videos. Not just basic chords either but more complex and harmonically interesting ones. Good price too, thanks.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 08:39:49
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You may want to take a look at this
Kenny
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Fleer
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 12:52:38
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Now THAT's why I like Waveform.
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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Fleer
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 13:44:25
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"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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BobF
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 13:44:32
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Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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BobF
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 13:45:42
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Don't forget hooktheory/hookpad for an online tool
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Fleer
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 14:15:31
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And let's not forget Toontrack EZKeys' Circle of Fifths.
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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BobF
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 14:48:07
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☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2017/04/08 14:51:26
Fleer
And let's not forget Toontrack EZKeys' Circle of Fifths.
One of these days I guess I need to try out EZKeys ... I really wish TT would do an EZBass 
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 17:34:16
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Tracktion Waveform Pattern Generator Tutorial
Kenny
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 22:06:45
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kennywtelejazz
Tracktion Waveform Pattern Generator Tutorial
Kenny
Dang Kenny Deluxe! Thanks! You really hit the mark with that one!  After watching those tutorials, I downloaded the demo of Waveform. Thirty minutes later I was rocking 4 tracks with B-3 Organ chords, Bass riff, Synth melody, and Drums in a 12 bar loop with A Minor chords. Still needs work, LOL, but it fits together harmonically. There are also loads of bass patterns you can vary in there. Nice! And the basic Waveform package is only $99 I don't really need all the DAW parts of the package, so I wish they just sold the MIDI editor without the bloat, but this is definitely a creativity booster. It's funny, the quick start guide is like 36 pages long, and there is like one page that covers, "oh yeah, you can edit MIDI too". They don't even mention these new creative tools in there.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 23:06:08
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abacab
kennywtelejazz
Tracktion Waveform Pattern Generator Tutorial
Kenny
Dang Kenny Deluxe! Thanks! You really hit the mark with that one!
After watching those tutorials, I downloaded the demo of Waveform.
Thirty minutes later I was rocking 4 tracks with B-3 Organ chords, Bass riff, Synth melody, and Drums in a 12 bar loop with A Minor chords. Still needs work, LOL, but it fits together harmonically.
There are also loads of bass patterns you can vary in there. Nice!
And the basic Waveform package is only $99
I don't really need all the DAW parts of the package, so I wish they just sold the MIDI editor without the bloat, but this is definitely a creativity booster. It's funny, the quick start guide is like 36 pages long, and there is like one page that covers, "oh yeah, you can edit MIDI too". They don't even mention these new creative tools in there.
Hey abacab , I'm glad I was able to offer you a suggestion that you have gained value from  I have Traction 7 , I'm very impressed with what T 7 is able to do ... ( truthfully it has been collecting a little dust only because of a SONAR project that took up my time ) From what I can tell so far Waveform takes it to a whole new place ... While you are checking out Waveform do your self a favor check out the Traction 7 video where they show multiple instances of the browser with patterns loaded while it plays along in perfect sync with the project .. Waveform also does that ... There is no other DAW on the market that can do that as of yet that I know of ... I'm pretty sure that I'm gonna upgrade to Waveform . In my case it's a 3 tier choice There's a 150 dollar upgrade for everything including The Bio Tek ...a 100 dollar upgrade for everything minus Bio Tek or a 50 dollar upgrade for the version that would cost you 99 bucks ... Right now I'm in the process of demoing Bio Tek just to get a feel for if it's something I'm gonna use and really want ... That synth is so far over my head that I may just end up paying the 50 bucks any day now just to get on board with Waveform .... I'm very interested myself in being able to have chord changes generated and saved in that type of environment .. I have BIAB in Windows . I have used it as in a DAW plugin mode , it is nice but I think Waveform is an easier way to approach a few genre s BIAB doesn't do well ... I'm gonna give you my Million Dollar Idea right now How's about creating a short 12 bar BIAB chord chart and then putting BIAB in DAW plugin mode and sliding off the midi into Waveform ? then you can alter and save to taste .... OH BTW ,,,the bill I'm sending you for telling you all that is on the way ...so please check your snail mail Kenny
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 23:29:32
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ZincTrumpet
abacab
Hey Zinc, thanks for the additional suggestions! I have looked into a couple of these, but many of them I will need to check out.
Cthulhu looks interesting, but I reckon it's strongest skillset is as an arpeggiator. I watched a video with the developer and a DJ, deadmau5, going to town with it. Looked cool though! The dev studied piano growing up and has included hundreds of the Bach chorales among the included patterns!
Odesi also looks very interesting, but it appears to be a web only application.
Will have to check out the others ...
No probs abacab :-) I have Cthulu and use it mainly for alternative chord ideas. The arp side does look very good but I still have to explore that. The dev (Steve Duda) is a cool dude (ahem). This series of vids are interesting and he discusses amongst other things how he came to make BFD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOUkI5hH2HY&t=1486s
Odesi is one that I still need to explore.
Enjoyed that video! Especially that part where Steve described working in phone support at Avid, and then getting hired away by Nine Inch Nails, LOL!!! Decisions, decisions... should I continue working in a cube in an office, or go to work making sounds for a band??? I may grab the demo of Cthulhu and give it a try, at least for experimenting with chording. But since it is a plugin, it is only going to work on one track, so I will still need something else. And I really like Tonespace, that will be another great tool for exploring chords and scales. A lot of the other MIDI tools are standalone programs for a reason. VST plugin design limits a plugin to interacting with one track, rather than the entire arrangement. For example, that is why Liquid Notes uses a virtual MIDI cable to connect with your DAW. That way it can support a multi-track MIDI arrangement and can keep all the parts aligned harmonically as you adjust the chords in the LN program. As far as the other tools I am testing go, I really like the UI of Cubase 9 Elements, and the Chord Track with Circle of Fifths built-in is easy and logical to work with. But I am also testing the demos of Waveform and RapidComposer. I think that Waveform actually may have a better creative MIDI tool than Cubase, due to the pattern generator, but the UI is non-standard for Windows and takes a little getting used to. Same with RapidComposer. It seems capable of some of the same MIDI tricks that Waveform has, but the UI is a little more dated and even weirder than Waveform. I'll just keep plugging away at these until I figure out what works best foe me!
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 23:36:47
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Fleer
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 23:37:24
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That $50 upgrade to Waveform from a paid version of Tracktion (T7, T6 or T5) also includes over 3GB worth of Biotek Lite (or Collective as it is called) as well as the new mixer and all of this chord/pattern/MIDI stuff.
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/08 23:47:37
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ZincTrumpet
I mentioned BIAB not because of it's "auto-accompaniment" abilities but because of it's ability to generate melody and chords from nothing, literally. Wasn't sure whether you were aware of it; the Melodist. I have created a few song ideas from this and found it quick and the results good (screenshot below). Once generated I don't work within BIAB (or Realband) but export the results (usually MIDI) to your DAW and expand the ideas from there.
Also the Chord Builder is now much enhanced with possible chords suggested based on music theory...
I will have to watch the 2 hours of videos on BIAB over at Groove 3 to see what I've missed, plus all the BIAB tutorials. That is a deep program that has been adding new features every year. I had an older version something like 15 years ago, but recently updated to the 2017 version. Really got it just to have something to jam along with. It's certainly a musical education in a box, if you spend enough time with it. But it looks like I have some catching up to do!
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software
2017/04/09 00:42:15
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