Helpful ReplyMaschine and Sonar X3C

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Mantofini
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 12:34:53 (permalink)
mmorgan
Mantofini: It is a separate application that Maschine. Off the top of my head I think it is "Controller Editor"...I'll check when I get home and post here if no one posts a name.
 
Also one thing to consider with Maschine, even though you only want it for the pads, it comes with quite a bit of NI's typically high quality content. I find it a lot of fun to play around with but I'm far from expert in the sampling realm.
 
Regards,



Do you find you actually end up using the sounds from Mashine in your finished work or is it more for fun?
 
I agree that NI's content is typically high quality. That's almost part of the problem. I just bought Komplete 9. I've barely scratched the surface. To date, I've only used Guitar Rig, Studio Drummer and some of the Kontakt orchestral sounds. I haven't touched the synths yet and only played with Battery for about an hour, though I have a feeling a pad controller would make using that a little more fun.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 13:05:17 (permalink)
Mantofini
Sanderxpander
I would call them pretty good but not excellent. Probably wouldn't buy it just as a generic controller but then, I really like the sounds and workflow.


Out of curiosity Sanderxpander. What other pad controllers would you recommend? I have read bad things about the responsiveness of Akai pads. There is a Novation controller than I might try next. The KORG padKontrol sounds good, as well, but, none of the stores in my area that allow returns currently carry it. Also, I'm not sure that will continue to be supported for a while.

That's a really good question, and one I can't answer confidently right away. I hear the pads on the Mk2 are a little better and I don't really dislike mine as such but I recognize the problem of missing notes when plaing softly. I've played a Pad Kontrol and liked the feel, but haven't really put it through its paces enough to comment with confidence. I haven't tried the Novation but it seems decent. Didn't like the Akai.
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LunaTech
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 13:06:50 (permalink)
Mantofini
Sanderxpander
I would call them pretty good but not excellent. Probably wouldn't buy it just as a generic controller but then, I really like the sounds and workflow.



Out of curiosity Sanderxpander. What other pad controllers would you recommend? I have read bad things about the responsiveness of Akai pads. There is a Novation controller than I might try next. The KORG padKontrol sounds good, as well, but, none of the stores in my area that allow returns currently carry it. Also, I'm not sure that will continue to be supported for a while.


Hi Mantofini,
 
I don't mean to barge in.. But I have not heard anyone mention the Akai Line of MPD controllers.  These have adjustable veliocity and feel.  And come with the standard transport, sliders and rotaries for DAW control.  I am not drum programming expert but with that said, they make playing drum instruments, samples etc. much more convenient that doing it on a keyboard. I think that have 3 flavors that go up in the number of pads/sliders/rotaries. Maybe what you need. Thanks.

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 13:36:14 (permalink)
I didn't like the Akai ones, and Akai is a different company now than it was during the hey day of the MPC line. All pad controllers mentioned so far have adjustable velocity curves by the way. That doesn't fix any physical limitations or quirks though.
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twisted6s
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 15:00:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mantofini 2013/12/04 11:26:49
This is my Maschine tutorial to use it as a VST in Sonar but this is not the latest software update for the Maschine software because I have purchased the "upgrade", 2.0, but it has proven to be problematic in my system so I'm using 1.8.2 until the problems are all worked out.
post edited by twisted6s - 2013/12/03 15:06:48

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 15:59:30 (permalink)
Yup that was the vid I watched earlier.... Excellent piece of footage thankyou!

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 16:07:40 (permalink)
Have people logged these daw issues with native instruments, have they promised anything? or is it just going round in circles in the forums. Just curious to know if they will fix the issues. Ta

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Mantofini
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 17:05:14 (permalink)
LunaTech
Mantofini
Sanderxpander
I would call them pretty good but not excellent. Probably wouldn't buy it just as a generic controller but then, I really like the sounds and workflow.



Out of curiosity Sanderxpander. What other pad controllers would you recommend? I have read bad things about the responsiveness of Akai pads. There is a Novation controller than I might try next. The KORG padKontrol sounds good, as well, but, none of the stores in my area that allow returns currently carry it. Also, I'm not sure that will continue to be supported for a while.


Hi Mantofini,
 
I don't mean to barge in.. But I have not heard anyone mention the Akai Line of MPD controllers.  These have adjustable veliocity and feel.  And come with the standard transport, sliders and rotaries for DAW control.  I am not drum programming expert but with that said, they make playing drum instruments, samples etc. much more convenient that doing it on a keyboard. I think that have 3 flavors that go up in the number of pads/sliders/rotaries. Maybe what you need. Thanks.


Providing feedback is not barging. I didn't mention the Akai line because based on the reviews, I had read that the pads were not as responsive as the KORG padKontol of the Maschine. Basically that they function better as sample triggers as opposed to inputting drums with dynamics. After seeing the same criticsms in every forum I decided to filter out that as an option, for. The feedback about the KORG had been more positive for the use I was pondering. I may still try one out though. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Mantofini
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 17:07:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mantofini 2013/12/04 11:26:37
twisted6s
This is my Maschine tutorial to use it as a VST in Sonar but this is not the latest software update for the Maschine software because I have purchased the "upgrade", 2.0, but it has proven to be problematic in my system so I'm using 1.8.2 until the problems are all worked out.



I saw that video last night, actually. It was reassuring that the use of Maschine with Sonar was possible. I bookmarked it just in case I get the Maschine. Thanks for putting that together. Have you tried using the Maschine controller without the VST? Perhaps to trigger Session Drummer or anything in Komplete, if you have it? What do you think of it.
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Mystic38
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 17:08:03 (permalink)
CakeAlexS
Have people logged these daw issues with native instruments, have they promised anything? or is it just going round in circles in the forums. Just curious to know if they will fix the issues. Ta


 
my current understanding is that when you buy a micro or mk2 you get v1.8.2 software, which works well enough with a DAW environment... so the popular recommendation i think would be to use that.
 
I have participated in the NI forun for a few years. NI is far more cagey than CW (by a large margin) on if and/or when it will address issues and often do not even acknowledge a problem exists... their attitude is largely just "its software and we give free updates........." 
 
To me this means i will wait and see that the general forum sentiment is that midi routing, drag/drop, batch setup and VST related issues are resolved before upgrading to the 2.x software.. as the 1.8 works fine in the context of a sonar/maschine setup

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Mantofini
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 17:12:17 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
Mantofini
Sanderxpander
I would call them pretty good but not excellent. Probably wouldn't buy it just as a generic controller but then, I really like the sounds and workflow.


Out of curiosity Sanderxpander. What other pad controllers would you recommend? I have read bad things about the responsiveness of Akai pads. There is a Novation controller than I might try next. The KORG padKontrol sounds good, as well, but, none of the stores in my area that allow returns currently carry it. Also, I'm not sure that will continue to be supported for a while.

That's a really good question, and one I can't answer confidently right away. I hear the pads on the Mk2 are a little better and I don't really dislike mine as such but I recognize the problem of missing notes when plaing softly. I've played a Pad Kontrol and liked the feel, but haven't really put it through its paces enough to comment with confidence. I haven't tried the Novation but it seems decent. Didn't like the Akai.


Thanks for the reply. Side note, you mentioned really liking the workflow. Would you, or anybody else for that matter, mind giving a little more feedback. How do you use it (i.e. VST/stand-alone/as a MIDI controller/all of the above)? What kind of stuff do you use it for (i.e. electronic/natural drums? instrument sounds? full compositions?)?
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Splat
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 17:17:57 (permalink)
So nobody has reported it to NI I guess... Hmmmm....

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 17:38:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mantofini 2013/12/04 11:26:19
Mantofini, I use it mostly for electronic or at least "programmed sounding" drums and almost always inside a DAW (Sonar and Ableton, in effect). I will occasionally get another instrument out of it but I really think that's its strongest point for my use.
Things I like about the workflow are
- browsing kits and kitpieces from the hardware, it's very easy to swap individual sounds in a kit or to build a new one
- adjusting pitch, volume, sample start and stop points, filter and adsr from the hardware
- recording loops inside the hardware, layering sounds/patterns and applying swing to kits or single kitpieces, this is very quick and as a result very inspirational even if you later want to export loops to work in a linear fashion
- I've not done it in a while but recording a loop in Maschine's sample recording and slicing it across the sixteen pads is great fun and again brings you places and ideas you might not otherwise have found.
- for jamming, just hooking it up to your laptop with some headphones (and using Asio4all), I found using just the Maschine software is fun too, though I haven't finished complete productions that way.

With all this, I found it very helpful to really learn the hardware well because it makes you feel it is a self contained instrument, which we all know gives you a very different feeling from clicking around in the DAW. It really helps that the hardware communicates directly with Maschine, no matter what else you may be doing in your DAW at the time.
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mmorgan
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 22:15:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mantofini 2013/12/04 11:26:24
Mantofini
mmorgan
Mantofini: It is a separate application that Maschine. Off the top of my head I think it is "Controller Editor"...I'll check when I get home and post here if no one posts a name.
 
Also one thing to consider with Maschine, even though you only want it for the pads, it comes with quite a bit of NI's typically high quality content. I find it a lot of fun to play around with but I'm far from expert in the sampling realm.
 
Regards,



Do you find you actually end up using the sounds from Mashine in your finished work or is it more for fun?
 
I agree that NI's content is typically high quality. That's almost part of the problem. I just bought Komplete 9. I've barely scratched the surface. To date, I've only used Guitar Rig, Studio Drummer and some of the Kontakt orchestral sounds. I haven't touched the synths yet and only played with Battery for about an hour, though I have a feeling a pad controller would make using that a little more fun.




When I first got Maschine I took one of the sample projects and used it inside of Sonar adding quite a bit of my own stuff to get to what I thought sounded like a decent song. It was really an exercise in learning the gear. This was a couple years ago. Up until about two months ago I have been using it almost entirely for the drum pads. By the way, the editor is called Controller Editor, I opened it up to my Battery kit and saw I had 3 pages for pads and 2 pages for rotaries but Mikro has no rotaries (which is why I'm probably going to upgrade to full Maschine for Christmas). The past couple months I've been playing with it (literally and figuratively) to see if I can get to a point where I can use it for more than just the pads.
 
I've got K9 also and it fits incredibly well inside of Maschine...really like Session Drummer in their but all of the Abbey Road kits get a workout too.
 
If you have a big box local music store I'd try and get them to set it up for you so you can try out the pads for sensitivity.
 
Regards,


Mike

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mettelus
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/03 22:33:47 (permalink)
Hey Alex, congrats on the new toys!! Please keep us up to date on the new adventures you are having. I own neither of them but seen reviews, scratched my head and wondered how I would employ it myself.... BUT... have a "weird need"...
 
1) I convinced a drummer friend to get a Roland TD-9 with the extra tom, and LOVE being able to tailor drum sounds quickly... but this is hardware driven, and I do not own the kit!
2) I get impatient trying to tweak AD the same way, and by the time I do, I forget what I was doing!
3) I fall back on SD3 to tailor sounds in an extremely "odd" way... I will grab a mic and do a "Michael Winslow" and build the kit sounds and drag them into SD3...
 
This is "fine" for throwing ideas into X3, but makes making a "final product" a complete nightmare :( so would love to hear how you are enjoying the new toys

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Mantofini
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/04 11:44:59 (permalink)
Mike and Sanderxpander,
 
Thanks for the feedback. You guys have been quite helpful. I actually watched some videos of somebody working in the Maschine software last night. It looked like fun though not something I would likely do on a regular basis. 
 
Mike, I skimmed through the manual on the Controller Editor last night. Thanks for the reference. I was actually impressed with what I saw. Usually programs of that nature aren't intuitive at all. I had one that came with my M-Audio Axiom 49 that I found a little confusing to say the least. Similarly with the KORG editing software that came with the nanoPAD2. The ability to switch between templates and pad pages on the fly seems very useful and far quicker than what I have seen on the internet for the KORG padKontrol.
 
Once again, thanks guys.
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/04 13:43:59 (permalink)
.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/04 14:01:42

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/11 19:31:59 (permalink)
Maschine 2.0.5 just came out about 6 hours ago, anybody tested it fully yet?
Can't see much difference, the plugins still doesn't show MIDI notes in Sonar for instance.

I was going to post a thread entitled Please give some love to Sonar in the Native Instruments maschine forums as you can bet the NI QA dept will be scanning the threads for issues with 2.0.5 right now, however I am still awaiting approval to post from administrators (clearly my reputation proceeds me  ).

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Zo
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/11 23:08:38 (permalink)
What's New?



  • Added language versions for Maschine documentation.
  • Improved Memory consumption.
  • Fixed issue with MIDI events from Ableton Live 9 triggering events twice.
  • Fixed issue with parameter settings when recalling Maschine sessions inside ProTools.
  • Possible to load all projects with referenced read-only files.
  • Setting a loop range via Scene screen now working correctly on Maschine MK1 controllers.
  • Overall performance and stability improvements.
  • Bug fixes in several areas.
 
Since i experienced no bugs here with my studio black , don't know if i take the risk ....

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/11 23:12:23 (permalink)
And this could mean absolutely anything....  (hate it when software companies don't go into specifics).


* Overall performance and stability improvements.
* Bug fixes in several areas.
 
I haven't tried it but I suspect rollback is possible if you are worried about it, if you are running version 2 it's a no brainer.
2.0.5 behaves no different to the previous version IMHO, but then I haven't really used this thing properly yet (training myself slowly).

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/12 22:28:38 (permalink)
i'm waiting X3D and do a full back up and go for those 2 major things ....

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/12 22:44:56 (permalink)
Well for me I managed to at least get it to work as a MIDI controller today with Addictive Drums. Can't work out how to push separate notes to separate MIDI channels though.
 
I can also use it as a soft synth, it will sync and play along with X3C however the MIDI notes will not show realtime in Sonar. Guess it has to be dragged into the tracks later.
 
I don't seem to have much joy getting to sync up with X3C as a standalone app using MIDI clock.
 
Anyway early days for me... So much to learn...

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/13 01:44:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby wetdentist 2013/12/13 07:24:58
YES! I've work how to get it to 16 audio outputs using this video: http://youtu.be/_ScjVqnzgG8
Works brilliantly once you (finally) know how! (the UI for the MIDI outputs has changed a lot it seems).
But now I've worked out I can't record them in Sonar for some reason... Wave forms get displayed when recording a track such as a snare, but then I can't seem to play them back.... Then the tracks disappear if I disarm record.... Oh well tomorrow is another day, I'm probably doing something stupid.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/13 01:51:49

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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#53
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/13 13:50:04 (permalink)
I haven't got into this in any great depth today, but this is what I've ended up with:

* The maschine soft synth is on 17 with MIDI out enabled.
* The seperate outputs are on 1 to 16 and sound comes out of them.
 
If I press the red button (see Maschine12) and record the Wave form appears in the tracks but won't get played back if I press play. If I press that red button again the waveform disappears. Again probably doing something stupid, the audio tracks appear to have turned into soft synth tracks... anyways...
 


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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/13 15:03:29 (permalink)
do the recording of maschine stuff inside maschine within sonar as a vst. export sounds or groups from maschine and bring back into sonar for mixing (i love automating maschine fx within maschine with the knob tho) i love workin in sonar just as much as the next guy, but trust me, learn to use maschine the way it's intened to be used and you'll truly appreciate it. must have for Electronic music that has a modern edge. my 2 cents...
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/13 15:15:14 (permalink)
In Maschine there's a tab arrow down, then file, export audio, then choose the region ( all scenes), output ( master, groups, sounds.... sounds would be every single pad from every group, all individual), choose destination folder (project audio folder), further options include normalize, loop optimize, and bit depth. once exported, import maschines wavs from your project audio folder into your project.
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/13 15:26:08 (permalink)
Thankyou, appreciated. Ill check it out. Well there are about 3 or 4 methods of workflow and I want to get them all working, right or wrong I like doing things backwards sometimes it adds to productivity in my little brain cell.

However I'm trying to get this method to work before I move onto the next. I like a good mystery :) The sounds are coming onto the Daw but I'm not recording . Why?

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/13 18:54:51 (permalink)



Spent a couple of more hours, think I'm stuck.
So to summarise with #54 all I can do is generate what Sonar calls a waveform preview on each channel, and I can't record the audio I hear.

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/14 12:12:33 (permalink)
set the loop size in maschine, press record in maschine, press play in sonar, play maschine pads and see them recorded in maschine.. now its in maschine and will play side by side within sonar. next you must add more stuff till you're happy, then export from maschine (as described above), or bounce to track (highlighting the source maschine track as well as the synth audio track), or freeze maschine within sonar. Maschines export options provide great flexibility for wavs or stems or master. Wavform preview is just that, a preview of what the wave will look like once frozen or bounced, can't record the preview.
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Re: Maschine and Sonar X3C 2013/12/14 13:33:55 (permalink)
Well I created a new thread here to avoid confusion, looking at it from the Sonar/wave preview point of view rather than just the Maschine angle, for instance freezing the track won't work either, in this instance just a maschine demo loop is being played (using it as a plugin not a controller):
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Waveform-Preview-m2949348.aspx
 

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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