Match that, Cakewalk!

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Jose7822
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 10:29:40 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Roflcopter

The original poster was being sarcastic. He was criticizing Reaper. Unfortunately, those for whom Reaper is apparently some sort of "cause" seem to have let that fly right over their heads. Never pass up an opportunity to solicit new users I guess.


Do you know if there's a Mac version?



I believe it's under development.
Roflcopter
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 10:33:39 (permalink)
I believe it's under development.


Oh, I hope they take their time, then - so's my Mac Fund, see:

post edited by Roflcopter - 2008/05/02 10:36:08

I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
Jose7822
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 10:41:19 (permalink)
I got one just like that .
UnderTow
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 13:19:40 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Dappa1

But I think Cakewalk understand the competition


I hope so. Communication with certain key people at Cakewalk in the past make me doubt that seriously. Yet another reason why these threads are good for all Sonar users!


UnderTow
Poco
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 15:47:31 (permalink)
4-4 time has come
3-4 now it's gone
SONAR don't fear the Reaper
Nor do the winds, the brass or the strings
We can be like they are
Come on baby... Don't fear the Reaper


SONAR - 40% better than Reaper!

God People - God Music
Where there is no peace, it is not peaceful.
calaverasgrandes
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 18:29:19 (permalink)
I installed reaper. Messed around with it for a week. Uninstalled it and will never play with it again. Its very ugly, and things that are simple to do in Sonar, Cubase and Protools are difficult in reaper. i get the impression it is geared towards midi and vst synths. Us audio guys are the red headed stepchildren that are included as an afterthough.
Did I mention that its ugly?

Sonar 7.0.3, Mattel Synsonics, Motu 828MKII (BLA), TC-powercore, Stillwell plugins, Moog MG1, Korg Poly 800, DX27s, Moogerfooger Lowpass, Ovation Magnum, Stingray fretless, Mesa Bass 400, Waldorf Edition, DBA fuzz war, Summit 2BA221, etc
sessionthree
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 22:36:37 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: calaverasgrandes

I installed reaper. Messed around with it for a week. Uninstalled it and will never play with it again. Its very ugly, and things that are simple to do in Sonar, Cubase and Protools are difficult in reaper. i get the impression it is geared towards midi and vst synths. Us audio guys are the red headed stepchildren that are included as an afterthough.
Did I mention that its ugly?


OMG, wow. If anything you have that opposite of the way it really is. I doubt in that week of messing around you gave it more than 15 min of your time if you actually came to that conclusion. Reaper's strong suit is actually audio (midi is more of the afterthought.)

calaverasgrandes
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 22:44:36 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: sessionthree


OMG, wow. If anything you have that opposite of the way it really is. I doubt in that week of messing around you gave it more than 15 min of your time if you actually came to that conclusion. Reaper's strong suit is actually audio (midi is more of the afterthought.)




Audio may be its strong suit. But its a pain in the ass to use. That along with its consistent deviation from windows standard interface is pretty annoying to me.
For a fairly new app its seems cluttered and awkward to me.
Sonar is far from perfect. I really hate how many of the functions (fade ins/outs, slip editing, etc) depend on hovering your cursor in a certain way.
But sure, if Reaper does better for you got with it. Arguing software is like arguing guitars. Everybody has their preference. But arguing reapers benfefits on a Sonar forum is akin to lauding Warwick basses on the Musicman forum. Tacky and crass!

Sonar 7.0.3, Mattel Synsonics, Motu 828MKII (BLA), TC-powercore, Stillwell plugins, Moog MG1, Korg Poly 800, DX27s, Moogerfooger Lowpass, Ovation Magnum, Stingray fretless, Mesa Bass 400, Waldorf Edition, DBA fuzz war, Summit 2BA221, etc
strungdown
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 23:08:12 (permalink)
Have you guys tried out REAPER? It's pretty neat. Here are some feature lists
REAPER is reasonably priced Windows software for multitrack audio production.

REAPER requires no dongle, has no copy protection, and can be evaluated with full functionality.

* Portable - supports running from USB keys or other removable media
* 64 bit audio engine
* Excellent low-latency performance
* Stunning multiprocessor performance
* Direct multi-track recording to many formats including WAV/BWF/W64, AIFF, WavPack, FLAC, OGG, and MIDI.
* Extremely flexible routing
* Supports a wide range of hardware (nearly any audio interface, outboard hardware, many control surfaces)
* Support for VST, VSTi, DX, DXi effects
* ReaPlugs: high quality 64 bit effect suite
* Tightly coded - installer is just over 3MB
* Tool-less mouse interface -- spend less time clicking
* Drag and drop files to instantly import them into a project
* Support for mixing any combination of file type/samplerate/bit depth on each track
* Easily split, move, and resize items
* Each item has easily manipulated fades and volume
* Tab to transient support
* Configurable and editable automatic crossfading of overlapping items
* Per-item pitch shift and time stretch
* Arbitrary item grouping
* Markers and envelopes can be moved in logical sync with editing operations
* Ripple editing - moving/deletion of items can optionally affect later items
* Multiple tempos and time signatures per project
* Ability to define and edit project via regions
* Automation envelopes

* Tool-less mouse interface -- spend less time clicking
* Drag and drop files to instantly import them into a project
* Support for mixing any combination of file type/samplerate/bit depth/etc on each track
* Easily split, move, and resize items
* Each item has easily manipulated fades and volume
* Tab to transient support
* Configurable and editable automatic crossfading of overlapping items
* Per-item pitch shift and time stretch
* Arbitrary item grouping - easily group any number of items across any number of tracks (great for drum editing)
* Markers and envelopes can be moved in logical sync with editing operations
* Ripple editing - moving/deletion of items can optionally affect later items
* Multiple tempos and time signatures per project
* Ability to define regions, and quickly move/copy regions (and their contents), to quickly try out alternate arrangements
* Automation envelopes for volume, pan, and plug-in parameters
* Configurable locking settings (lock items, envelopes, loop selection, etc, independently)

Outstanding routing capabilities

* Tracks can be viewed and used as normal tracks, or....
* Each track can function as a track and as a bus
* Each track can send to any number of other tracks (unlimited multiple parallel sends*)
* Each track can send to any number of hardware outputs (mono or stereo) for monitoring or analog mixing
* Every send can send audio and/or MIDI, audio sends can be before FX, after FX, or after the track's volume/pan faders
* Every send has its own volume/pan/phase controls
* Tracks can have as many as 64 channels, for easy support of multi-out VSTi, as well as enormous sidechain flexibility
* Routing Matrix window for easy viewing and changing of routing
* Feedback routing is supported


Powerful recording options

* Direct multi-track recording to all supported formats, including WAV/W64/BWF, MIDI, WavPack, FLAC, Monkey's Audio (APE) and OGG
* Record monitoring allows you to run FX on inputs and route them while stopped and/or while recording
* Per-track record monitoring settings: off, on, tape auto style (monitoring when recording, not monitoring when playing)
* Per-track record mode selection (can record input, mixed track output, track MIDI output, or just monitor+route only)
* Change any track's record arming, input, monitoring, or record mode at any time (even while recording)
* Supports auto-punch in/out, and multi-item/multi-track auto-punch
* Supports looped recording adding takes
* Can record entire mixed (live) output
* Automatically add recorded items to any existing items as new takes
* Automatic gapless file switching to avoid 2GB/4GB filesystem limits

MIDI support

* MIDI files can be inserted in any track
* Piano roll MIDI editor with velocity, pitch, and CC controls
* Support for multi-track recording/monitoring of any MIDI hardware input
* Any number of tracks can send to any MIDI hardware output
* Support for VSTi/DXi softsynths and VST MIDI fx
* Support for MIDI sending/receiving to ReWire devices
* Support for recording a track's output (audio or MIDI) independent of what input is selected (meaning you can record live the audio output of a softsynth from a MIDI source, or even more interestingly record the MIDI output of ReaGate from a live (audio) input)


Customizable user interface

* Configurable shortcut keys -- customize the keyboard keys to work the way you are used to, or use REAPER's intuitive default mapping
* Color themes: change the way REAPER appears to meet your tastes, or choose one of nearly 50 themes included
* User arrangeable user interface. The following windows can be hidden, docked, or floated to meet your needs:
o Track mixer view
o Transport controls
o Undo history
o Media explorer
o Routing matrix
o Navigator
o FX browser
o Track FX chains
o Performance meter
o Big clock
o Virtual MIDI keyboard
o more!

Bundled Effects and 3rd party plug-in Support

* Flexible FX chains allow unlimited FX per track*
* Automatic plug-in delay compensation (PDC)**
* Realtime FX processing
* Offline FX processing (Apply FX to item as new take)
* Realtime network FX processing (use spare machines on your local network for processing)
* Supports VST/VSTi plug-ins
* Supports DX/DXi plug-ins
* Supports ReWire enabled applications
* Includes ReaGate, a sidechain-enabled noisegate
* Includes ReaComp, a sidechain-enabled compressor
* Includes ReaXComp, an unlimited multiband compressor
* Includes ReaEQ, a fast and very configurable EQ
* Includes ReaFIR, an FFT EQ+dynamics processor+noise reduction tool
* Includes ReaVerb, a convolution reverb
* Includes ReaVerbate, an algorithmic DSP reverb
* Includes ReaTune, a tuner and pitch correction tool
* Include ReaInsert, which allows inserting hardware devices into FX chains as FX
* Includes ReaStream, which allows sending/receiving audio and MIDI from other machines on a local network
* Includes ReaNINJAM, which allows connection to NINJAM servers from within REAPER
* Includes hundreds of user-programmable JS effects
* For a more complete list, see the REAPER Technical Specifications




Extremely small footprint
REAPER is full featured, but small and FAST. It starts and closes fast, and is easily installed on new systems or on portable drives. Despite being lightweight, it can still utilize heavyweight hardware (including multiple CPU cores, network computers, and add-in DSP cards).


Easy to use
Equally usable by hobby users and professionals alike. Simply drag and drop one of many kinds of files in to edit existing material, or insert a track and arm it for recording. No complex project settings or definitions are required.


Wide open compatibility

* Human readable and editable project file format
* Support for on-the-fly reading and writing of many common file formats, including WAV/W64/BWF, MID, AIFF, WavPack, FLAC, MP3 and OGG
* Support for consolidating track edits, to enable easy export of edited audio
* Support for rendering track stems, to enable easy export (with FX and automation)
* EDL import/export for both Samplitude and Vegas
* Includes ReaRoute, which enables sending/receiving of audio to/from most other ASIO enabled applications
keith
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 23:15:32 (permalink)
This "reaper" you speak of... where might one obtain such a powerful tool as this?
strungdown
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 23:17:20 (permalink)
I believe it's in the internet
TAFKAT
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/02 23:43:38 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: AJ_0000


ORIGINAL: Roflcopter

Justin Frankel's past products have been popular within the piracy community. Saying so isn't really defamation of character, it's a statement of what I believe is a known fact.


You serious?

So are Adobe's products, but I don't see anyone calling them warez whores, or claiming they actually paid warez sites to pimp their product.

Maybe you are a forgiving reader, but judges usually just see what was written.


Keep in mind that at the time WinAmp came out, there was no such thing as paying for an mp3. I think it would not be unfair to say that WinAmp and Gnutella were both created with the full knowledge they would be used for piracy, if not created for the specific purpose of facilitating piracy.



Good Grief,

I really should stay out of this , but I need to point something out here..

All of this B.S about Justin advocating piracy, and the ongoing attempts at character assassination is really beyond the pale, I just don't get it, I really don't , and then using that to somehow advocate dismissing Reaper is even more ridiculous..

Also, the communication level of the developers with the end users and the speed of updates and bug fixes should be applauded , instead of being tarred as proof of an unfinished product. I find it incredible how people would even come to conclusion like that. From first hand experience with the Reaper devs, I informed them of a serious looping glitch, and within a few hours I had a receptive ear, within 3-4 days it was fixed and it has been optimised and improved further 3-4 times since then, in a space of weeks, not months or years as is the norm with the other devs. We can only dream of having that type of response from any other developer.

Is it a direct competitor to SONAR and Cubendo , for some its more than enough already, for those focussing more on MIDI, not there yet, but lets not forget that SONAR and Cubendo started as MIDI sequencers and then added the audio features over the years. Reapers development is the reverse, much like PT, who has taken years to get their MIDI to the level it is now. I am willing to bet Reaper gets to the same point a lot faster.

Now before the chorus kicks in and points the finger at me for being a Reaper pimp, in my line of business I have to be across all of the applications , and I can easily remove myself emotionally from pimping one product over the other , simply because I have clients who use all manners of packages, so for me I treat each and every one with equal respect , horses for courses, what ever floats your boat. If anything Reaper would be the last I would pimp from a business prospective, as there simply isn't any commercial benefit for me.. !!

What do I use personally.., well lets say its not Reaper or SONAR.. ;-)

Now , getting back to the point about advocating piracy , Man, I find that dangerous ground around here on the Cake forum, who's flagship product has no copy protection what so ever except a response to a serial number that is not system ID locked, so one response can easily become multiple once it is leaked. Which many already have , anyone with even the slightest internet experience is more than aware of that. So is Cakewalk advocating piracy because they refuse to copy protect the application ? Are they willingly allowing the proliferation of the application via illicit means ?

Whats good for the goose...

I'll let you guys continue chatting amongst yourselves :-)

V:
post edited by TAFKAT - 2008/05/03 00:18:25
keith
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 00:35:04 (permalink)
The more things change the more they stay the same... http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20901

UAD looping problems... uneven core loading... gaps... snaps... crackles... pops... glitches...

Is that the SONAR forum or the REAPER forum?!?! I'm confused!!! Mommy???

Jose7822
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 00:46:34 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: keith

The more things change the more they stay the same... http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20901

UAD looping problems... uneven core loading... gaps... snaps... crackles... pops... glitches...

Is that the SONAR forum or the REAPER forum?!?! I'm confused!!! Mommy???





I don't know how you arrived to that conclusion but I saw people praising how they're now able to use lower latencies with the new update. There were like two people complaining (which might be a configuration problem for all we know) but most people saw an improvement in core loading and audio playback on their systems.

Did I interpret this wrong?
keith
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 01:11:18 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Jose7822
ORIGINAL: keith

The more things change the more they stay the same... http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20901

UAD looping problems... uneven core loading... gaps... snaps... crackles... pops... glitches...

Is that the SONAR forum or the REAPER forum?!?! I'm confused!!! Mommy???


I don't know how you arrived to that conclusion but I saw people praising how they're now able to use lower latencies with the new update. There were like two people complaining (which might be a configuration problem for all we know) but most people saw an improvement in core loading and audio playback on their systems.

Did I interpret this wrong?


"The native CPU usage on my core2duo (e8400) would also be very uneven @ 256 with one core using most of the CPU."

"pre1:My UAD-1 loop playback problems still have not been solved yet...i still get crackles, gaps when loop starts "

"At best, with previous REAPER versions I would not have been able to play any of the above projects @ 128 without major crackling and eratic native CPU usage"

"don't get crackles (256 samples @ 48 kHz) anymore when scrolling/zooming! "

It just might be one or two or five or seven or... I'm just pointing out that with all the religious talk about how one app is so "much more efficient" than the other, or how one app is so "incomplete" compared to the other, that at the end of the day if you scan product forum A and product forum B on some random day you see alot of the same problems... I just think it's ironic... like which forum am I reading again? Personally I don't have anythng against Reaper or anyone that uses it or even wants to promote it.
Mr Clean
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 01:23:46 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: keith

Personally I don't have anythng against Reaper or anyone that uses it or even wants to promote it.


+1 to that.

Much ado about nothing!
TAFKAT
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 01:28:17 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: keith

The more things change the more they stay the same... http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20901

UAD looping problems... uneven core loading... gaps... snaps... crackles... pops... glitches...

Is that the SONAR forum or the REAPER forum?!?! I'm confused!!! Mommy???




Aghhh , we will find our own truth... LOL !!

The thread title is : " Justin: Loving the new Synchronous FX improvements! "

All of the comentary is in regards to Reaper and the UAD1- which is at odds with Reapers asynchronous threading model, as it requires the processing assigned to the UAD1's to be synchronous . Reaper has alternate and hybrid modes to accommodate that. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Native processing power of the application, its about Justin improving that aspect to allow even better performance with the UAD1's archaic lack of multi-processing routines..


V:
post edited by TAFKAT - 2008/05/03 01:49:02
Jose7822
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 01:36:08 (permalink)
Keith,

Obviously, it's all relative. Reaper is not a perfect product (or any other DAW for that matter) which I understand is your point, and I agree with it. But my point was that your example wasn't the best since it clearly shows that MOST people were actually seeing improvements with the new Reaper update, which is contrary to what you might have been suggesting with: "UAD looping problems... uneven core loading... gaps... snaps... crackles... pops... glitches...". Also, as far as I can tell, Reaper beat Sonar (fair and square) in the core-loading department as you can see here (I'll link it once more just for you):

http://www.dawbench.com/dawbenchdsp-x-scaling.htm

If you've seen this already then take it as a reminder. Again, I'm just recognizing Justin's awesome work in the past few years, but I'm also waiting for Cakewalk's response to this (hopefully delivered to us by Sonar 8). I wanna see these huge gap closed by then .



Take care!
keith
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 02:33:15 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Jose7822
Sonar 8


Sonar 8? SONAR 8?!?!?! I think there will be a small riot if it's not addressed in a 7.1... hint hint
ChristopherM
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 03:27:31 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Mr Clean

I mean Match that, Cakewalk! is a bold statement asking for trouble on a Cakewalk forum.

But if you read my original post, you will instantly see that the title is ironic. I was actually expressing concern about Reaper's too-frequent updating cycle.


Software developers need critics to improve, as with every other aspect of life.
Agreed, but helpful (or at least well-intentioned) criticism does not necessarily guarantee "good" developments from the software developer in question.
SvenArne
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 08:56:26 (permalink)
Just tried Reaper for the first time, and I found it interesting. Haven't tried midi yet. They should have made the Demo Song (Brad Sucks) better sounding, though, if its mission is to impress first time users...
Sven





Jose7822
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 12:36:44 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: keith


ORIGINAL: Jose7822
Sonar 8


Sonar 8? SONAR 8?!?!?! I think there will be a small riot if it's not addressed in a 7.1... hint hint



I wish, but we're getting close to the release date of Sonar 8 so I doubt we'll get another update now. Plus, I'd rather they concentrate their resources on developing a better audio engine and have it ready, hopefully, by Sonar 8. But I won't get mad if they decide to release another update for v7 .


Peace!
post edited by Jose7822 - 2008/05/03 12:56:59
HotCoollMusicGirl
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/03 22:53:08 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Oaf_Topik

Then I think that I really should print out the PDF-only documentation because I loath Acrobat.


Try Foxit.

It's free and so much better than Adobe reader: http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php


Hi Oaf_Topik. Thank you for that recommendation. You're right, Foxit is so much better than the Acrobat reader -- and just the fact that it's not from Adobe is a plus! I've set is as my default for PDFs.
Glennbo
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/09 17:26:36 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: calaverasgrandes

I installed reaper. Messed around with it for a week. Uninstalled it and will never play with it again. Its very ugly, and things that are simple to do in Sonar, Cubase and Protools are difficult in reaper. i get the impression it is geared towards midi and vst synths. Us audio guys are the red headed stepchildren that are included as an afterthough.
Did I mention that its ugly?


You do realize that Brand-X is fully skinnable?



And the graphics are 100% fully scalable so you can fit onto very very small screens.

post edited by Glennbo - 2008/05/09 20:59:53
Jose7822
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/09 18:50:20 (permalink)
That actually looks pretty cool.
Glennbo
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/09 19:10:28 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Jose7822

That actually looks pretty cool.


I like this skin the best. It's appropriately titled "Troublemaker". Being skinnable, as opposed to only being able to change color themes means you can change out all the objects, like the handles on faders. Here's a link to a full res view of the skin I use.

http://members.cox.net/vdrums/Troublemaker/

Forgot to mention that on my new EeePC, which has a small 7" wide aspect screen, I can fit 14 channel strips because of the ability to scale up or down the overall size of the graphics, including custom skins.
post edited by Glennbo - 2008/05/09 21:04:48
Jose7822
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/09 23:21:07 (permalink)
Nice! I like the fact that it's so easy to see the FX chain in the Console. It would be nice if Cakewalk gave us more space for them too. Right now you can only view four at a time and then you have to scroll to see the rest. A real waste of space if you ask me.
Glennbo
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/10 10:17:12 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Jose7822

Nice! I like the fact that it's so easy to see the FX chain in the Console. It would be nice if Cakewalk gave us more space for them too. Right now you can only view four at a time and then you have to scroll to see the rest. A real waste of space if you ask me.


Not only are the FX bins sizable, but the channel strips are independently sizable as well, and all of it is scalable up and down globally. Here's an example using 18 FX in one bin. That channel strip has been sized smaller than normal, the two on either side are normal height, and the ones to the left are sized larger than normal. I don't ever really do anything as bizarre as that with it, but I do globally stretch the FX bins so that how ever many FX I have maximum in a bin all show.

OldGeezer
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/10 12:03:39 (permalink)


My default blank-slate. What can I say...I'm a color freak.
Glennbo
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RE: Match that, Cakewalk! 2008/05/10 13:02:35 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: OldGeezer

My default blank-slate. What can I say...I'm a color freak.


Definately some color there!!!

I like the flaming bass plug with skull! My live drums have flames on the bass drum head, and the stick holder, plus I wear a flame shirt and flames with skull doo rag as well. ;)


post edited by Glennbo - 2008/05/10 13:22:11
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