GregGraves
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/05 20:58:02
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We do have the basis for a class-action lawsuit. We were told, in writing, that we "owned" their product. It was never communicated that we'd only "own" the product if it remained on our current motherboard. After all, Gibson did try to sell us a "60% off" discount way back on Halloween 2017 (weeks ago). Attempt to defraud? I'd think that the time to raise this issue to Gibson is NOW, rather than later. After all, we are only asking them to modify whatever single .dll file is involved in their "authorization" scheme. The first step would be to identify the entire list of Sonar "owners", i.e., names and addresses, contact info, email address.
At issue here is not the $2,000 or so we have invested in Cakewalk over the years, but what will happen when Sonar is no longer functional, and ALL THE ART WE HAVE CREATED IS NO LONGER ACCESSIBLE!
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Paul G
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/05 22:00:39
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My feelings are that Class Action suits typically help only the lawyers. I did get a 49¢ check once.
Paul
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Cactus Music
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/05 22:58:37
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☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2017/12/06 11:43:48
First, I had missed this thread - So this was very valuable and timely info. Thanks Chuck for being one of the few who is on top of things and keeping a clear head. And thanks to those folks who tested the off line activation I was doing the same thing myself and the only test I had not done was the using that code on a different PC. You confirmed what I already suspected , it won't work. Here lies the heart of our problem for that day down the road when we build that nice new DAW.
To post # 61 by Greg.
I will use Sonar for another 5-10 years so it was a bargain.
And as far as loosing your songs? Why, Sonar still works and will work for a long time yet. There are dozens of options. And if it dies there is a million ways to transfer material to other DAW's, You just need to start making a plan.
My Atari died back in 2006. Did it ruin my life because I had created 500 songs with it.. no, I still have the midi files and guess what, they still open. But before it died I backed up those files to a IBM formated floppy disk. This was the key step needed at the time--- So this is the same thinking we need right now.
I am installing Splat on every computer I have on hand. Why not. I am not breaking the rules. They say no where that you cannot do this, I think it was Niel who said " We will just keep an eye on the amount of installs and questions folks who seem to be a little over the top"
So the rule is not how many computers, it's that Only YOU can use that version. I don't think my wife or my dog will be using Sonar. Only 2 machines in the end will be working DAW's. The others are saftey back ups. I will not bother installing anything but Sonar. I found you can install all the VST packs and plug ins any time afterwards using the downloads and it does not ask for any serial numbers, it seems to know. Only Stand alones like Dim Pro ask for numbers.
My main DAW I just updated with a new power supply and SSD C drive.
I installed Widows 8.1 as I beleieve this is the perfect OS for future proofing a PC. No Windows updates that will trash it, just low level maintenance updates just like W7 gets. W7 is another good choice but I think we can buy more time with 8.1. I'm counting on 10 max.
Anyhow I hope they do release this magic code, but my thinking is this will involve one last release of Sonar with the code altered to facilitate this. Sonar as it stands cannot do that.
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GregGraves
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/06 08:40:51
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That is good advice Cactus, and I have already been doing all that backup. That said, I've also opened up previously created projects from a few years and a few Sonar versions back, and it was a nightmare. Plugins that were installed, and laboriously set up just so at the time, were not recognized as being present even though they were, etc. etc. It is theoretically possible to move a project to another DAW (I assume this is true, having not tried it), but I bet you will run into the same problems, and likely much worse, as I have messing with retired projects created in Cakewalk and opened in Cakewalk. I imagine things might deteriorate down to digging through your Audio folder and trying to piecemeal all those clips back into their proper location in the overall song. That would suck.
Perhaps I am ****ed, but I don't understand the timing. If they knew they were going to close shop, why didn't they mod the .dll while they still had all the programmers still there? If they are all gone, how in the world would this ever get done? I'm a programmer, and can tell you from experience that digging into someone else's code gives you brain damage.
Lastly, the likelihood that server will stay up, is about the same as this forum staying up: zero.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/07 16:03:04
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Myself if I lost every plug in that was on an old project it would suit me fine. As I progress so do the tools I use. So the old projects would still be renovated with all new VST's and plug ins anyways.
I guess a big difference between folks here is how some create overly complicated monsters. Yes those types of projects are going to be next to impossible to re create on a different DAW.
I'd advise you just finish them and move on. A song that is that hard to finish is probably not a great song anyways.. I abandon those I've learned to let go of songs that just an't going anywhere.
I'm pretty basic in my approach to my songs. I really haven't changed much beyond having a 8 track for audio, my Atari for midi and a rack full of processors.
My MIDI files are where a lot of work goes and those are super easy to move between DAW,s or versions of Sonar.
If you save a project as a midi 1 file, then when you OPEN it in Sonar or another DAW all the tracks will be labeled so will remind you which VST you used. If those VST's are like AD2, Air and even Dim Pro it takes a few minutes and boom, there your song minus the audio.
The only time consuming prep work is that before you save as a midi file you need to assign different channels to each instrument. I do this automatically anyhow as a mater of habit from 1984. I'm not sure what happens to midi embedded in an instrument track,, I use midi tracks and a separate instrument track.
And audio is easy to swap around or in most cases I just re sing or play the part and do a better job of it anyway's :)
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azslow3
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/07 16:44:26
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I guess CW will release activation codes if/when you need them. Officially or unofficially. In the worse case "other" people will release something for that...
But if that is still your concern, check which projects you can open in X3 and what you loose in case you do. In worse scenario, when you no longer have the PC which can run "that old" Window to run X3, you will be able to run in under Linux/Wine. Both are open source and have all possible version available to download. So current Wine, which runs X3 without problem, can be started on whatever Linux kernel you will need that time (old kernel can have the same problem as Windows, but till now I can not remember any single case when user land Linux program could not be run on whatever later kernel you have).
BUT. There is another problem: PLUGINS. And I do not mean CW plug-ins, I mean OTHER PLUGINS. There is absolutely no warranty Waves plugins in 10 years incarnation will work fine in current Sonar. Can you install them on your backup computer and forget? That will "eat" once license. Can you install old versions in 10 years? Questionable.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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GregGraves
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/08 14:36:14
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OK, I guess we are completely losing track of what this thread is/was about.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/08 20:10:57
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GregGraves
Lastly, the likelihood that server will stay up, is about the same as this forum staying up: zero.
^^^^ That is my biggest concern right there. ^^^^ That FAQ message reads something to the tune of.. "If the servers go down, we will provide you with an off line activation code". Im curious how they plan on giving us this code if the servers are already down. Hopefully they will be prepared and give it to use BEFORE the servers go down. Im sure that's exactly what they meant but it sure wasn't written that way. At anytime the plug could be pulled and we could all be sitting here with our cup in our hands. and when I say "cup" I mean something else. Haven't heard a word from this transition crew since last week. People are in a panic and justifiably so. I don't want my DAW to be used as a paper weight. Im a bit baffled we haven't heard much now since we first heard this news 3 weeks ago.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Cactus Music
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/08 20:59:21
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And I don't think there is a one number code that would work over and over. Testing the offline activation process by me a nd a few others here and we soon came to the conclution that the number they issue can only be used once and on the machine you generated the code from.
So the way Sonar is built right now there is possibly no back door to the unlocking. They will actually have to release one last version that has the currant copy protection changed to the old style 2 number system like X3 and back used.
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Amicus717
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/08 21:57:59
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The current FAQ reads: "If or when the servers are taken down, we will make sure you have a way to authorize your products without using any of our current online authorization steps. We're working on a mechanism for if this does occur, to ensure our users will not lose functionality moving forward."
Is that wording a change from before? I seem to recall it specifically mentioned a "code" of some sort, but now it talks about bypassing current authorization steps. Possibly a good sign? That would suggest to me a patch would be issued that would eliminate the server based authorization process altogether, rather than some sort of permanent unlock code...which suggests they've been looking into the issue and have decided on an approach to the problem...?
Either way, at the moment I'm not exactly feeling confident about my ability to keep using Sonar long-term...
Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 Pro 64, Core i7-5820K Haswell-E CPU, 32GB DDR4 RAM, RME Babyface, Adam F7 monitors, Mackie MCU
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GregGraves
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/08 21:59:23
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Actually, methinks, and methinks perhaps wrongly, that if somebody was prepared to do the offline activation, that BEFORE they did that they gave the DOS command "DIR > print.txt" and made a record of all the files, file sizes, and date codes inside of the program, THEN did the same thing AFTER the activation ... we would know which file or files were changed by the activation process. I'd bet it would turn out to be a single dll. That dll would have to reference the expected mainboard ID and return a Yes/No back to the program as to whether it matched, or didn't, i.e., remain in demo or "authorize" to "owned" mode. So all Gibson-cake would have to do is give us a dll that always returned a True. I don't understand why they are not doing that!!
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chuckebaby
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/08 22:18:51
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Cactus Music
So the way Sonar is built right now there is possibly no back door to the unlocking. They will actually have to release one last version that has the currant copy protection changed to the old style 2 number system like X3 and back used.
A week ago, I would probably have to disagree with you but the more I think about it, the more I think you may be right. A one time installer that would only change the authorization process to the old Challenge/Response registration. Possibly even a patch for Command center ? Though that would bother me a bit because I have never trusted command center, I have used it and been happy with its results but I have never, ever fully trusted it. Greg also brings up a good point about a .DLL that could be used. almost the same way the import authorization works now, only minus the Mobo info. Im just not sure if it is possible. I wouldn't be surprised if Cakewalk is researching the pirated Sonar versions and how they did it. Some of those groups, (as illegal and wrong) are still very smart people. Think about the way they reverse engineer ? They are smart. those are people who could make a lot of money coding a great DAW.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Ruckman65
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Re: Membership FAQ
2017/12/09 01:16:10
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☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2017/12/09 13:23:17
I am over the uncertainty. I have been using Cakewalk/Sonar for close to 25 years as a professional musician. I need to be able to rely 100% on my DAW and not have to check forums to see if it will be working today. I have tried the demo of Studio One and, while it does not have the depth of Sonar and is missing some elements I am used to having, I know that it will be working tomorrow and will still be supported.
Sonar is (was) the best DAW I have ever used. But, if I can't rely on it, regardless of how good it is, that gives me pause to believe it is time to move on.
Win10 64bit Sonar Platinum ASUS SSD 128gb i7 Intel 2.8mhz Toshiba Portable HD 2 gb x 3 16gb memory Nvidia 960M Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk II Komplete Kontrol S49 Focusrite Sapphire 6i6
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mike chilvers
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Re: Membership FAQ
2018/04/02 08:58:29
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Been runnin Cakewlk MC7 since 2016, afore that CW5..Being an ol' timer and more used to analogue (Tape recorders) I've never been that good with computers so don't use my set-up that often. But about a week ago I was puttin' down a few tracks and went to SAVE and saw a small sign which said 'Can't save' but even then I did'nt realise the significance and hit SAVE and sure enough, it did,nt save, so all was lost! It was then I noticed in the bottom right screen corner another message which said 'Demo mode' and even the I still did'nt undedrstand what was goin' on until I checked out Cakewalk site and found out about Gibson takeover then the sell-out to this BandLab set-up!
But what to do. I could'nt understand how a 'takeover' could cause systems to freeze or be 'locked-in to Demo Mode'
makin' programs useless until it was explained by a much knowledgeable and computer literate guy about Servers and Activation, even then I still did'nt understand much of it, but the good news was, he fixed it. Don't ask me what he did, I have no idea but he did say that it could happed again if the Servers were 'closed down' or something along those lines! When I was tryin' to find out what had happend I did notice that hardly anybody mentioned Cakewalk Music Creator7, and the DEMO MODE problem; seemed most folk using SONAR. Used to run a Tascam MSR 24 T/R but it started to go wrong and no one fix to them, but happy days!
Mike Chilvers
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msmcleod
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Re: Membership FAQ
2018/04/02 11:35:36
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All you need to do is run the Cakewalk Command Center and log in.
This should re-authorise MC7.
M.
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GregGraves
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Re: Membership FAQ
2018/04/02 14:51:55
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It is my understanding (potentially flawed understanding) that my Sonar software isn't putting out feelers through the internet connection on its own. Secondly, if I never click on Command Center, then everything that I currently have will still function in the "owned" state. I'm thinking that the only time I should click on Command Center will be the day my military-grade motherboard dies, i.e., I should NEVER click on Command Center.
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Sam4246
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Re: Membership FAQ
2018/04/02 15:25:34
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I am so confused now. I have SPLAT - did the lifetime updates thing as soon as it was offered. So it has the infinity symbol on it.
I use it on one PC. Next year, I plan to upgrade my PC and purchase a new one and the plan is to have SPLAT on that new PC.
I already signed up for BandLab months before they purchased the Cakewalk assets - and I used the same email address I used for Cakewalk. I got the email that said if I already have an existing BandLab account with the same email address I used with Cakewalk then I do not have to do anything - so I have done nothing. I have used BandLab to collaborate with members of my current project - it's ok - I don't really have an opinion on it good or bad. But for production, mixing, and mastering, I really want to be able to continue using SPLAT - I find the interface is easy to use.
1. Do I need to do anything special for when I purchase a new PC so that I can install and use SPLAT on it?
Please dumb it down for me because I am not a guru on the computer side of things. Do I need to do this offline activation thing on my current PC? I purchased SPLAT at a Guitar Center over 2 years ago and used the serial number from it to originally activate it. I have used the Command Center to do updates since then. Is there anything I really need to do other than wait to see how BandLab gets everything set up?
2. I could not find anything on BandLab that specifically addresses the lifetime updates and costs - I assume that will no longer exist and Sonar users will be forced back to subscription payment plan.
-Confused in Indiana but hopeful TDFKAS will continue to be as user friendly as SPLAT.
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Karyn
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Re: Membership FAQ
2018/04/02 15:57:00
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☄ Helpfulby Bristol_Jonesey 2018/04/03 18:21:18
1. As of today nothing has changed. You can build a new PC, install and authorise your software exactly as you always have done.
As for next year (when you plan a new PC) nobody here can see into the future to say what software security BandLab will go with... One thing they HAVE said though, is that all current users will continue to be able to install and use anything they already own.
2. BandLab bought the software, they did not buy the company. Your "lifetime updates" contract was with Cakewalk Inc. which has come to the end of its life...
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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