straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/20 15:13:41
(permalink)
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/20 22:38:40
(permalink)
While metal's not really my thing there's a couple of suggestions I'd throw in.
If you're layering riffing distorted guitars, as well as equalising each one slightly differently, make each track's guitar tone less distorted than you think it needs to be - that way there will still be some transients, and punch needs transients, rather than everything being more squashed than everything else, and the distortion will multiply up all by itself as the tracks are layered. One reason Mesas have clean/crunch channels, and why the comparatively lower-gain JCM800 is so popular, is because riffs come across as more powerful if cleaner than flat-out lead tones.
So another thing that might be worth trying is to record some of the rhythm tracks as clean or almost clean guitars or use an acoustic guitar for a one or two of the tracks. Again, it's about creating some stand-out transients to give the riff shape rather than everything having its RMS almost equal to peak volumes all the time.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/21 05:42:03
(permalink)
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
BASSJOKER
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 247
- Joined: 2015/04/23 15:34:05
- Location: Ocean City , Md
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/21 15:14:16
(permalink)
Sounds like your on the right track though to match that Engl Savage you need further EQ and ? to brighten the tone more (if your intent?) when I compare them on my cans. You'll get it dialed in ...think ya gotta cut more off the low end of the bass which might allow more of the gtr top end to cut thru.
-Steve MC7, Lexicon Alpha, Win10,Toshiba,Sat L955,Intel I5 1.7G, 6G Ram, 64 Bit, Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Marshall, Vox, Ashdown
|
GerardMcNamara
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 48
- Joined: 2015/04/10 13:10:08
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/21 23:51:02
(permalink)
You are obviously a talented musician---and the guitar playing for this type of music is awesome!---That being said I was going to say I thought the snare drum was a bit low? the bass drum kind of dominates (at least in the context of the mix posted)? It might just be my particular speakers though...and yes, I am not really answering the original question---however, I thought the mix was very good--- just too much bass drum ( a little bit) and not enough treble or volume in the snare hits. Again, just a knee jerk listen and my quick reaction...and a thought: with this type of music (and I'm not on the soap box in any way) doesn't the guitar(s) propel the drums and vice versa? In other words, the better the drum dynamic against the guitar dynamic--the friction push and pull....and the beast gets formed...Or something like that. Amazing playing none the less!
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/23 02:30:14
(permalink)
I followed everyones guidelines as much as possible, but I'm aware this isn't gonna be perfect overnight, so I'll keep trying and practicing, and maybe one day I'll be able to post somtn in the "Songs" section of this forum too :-) Thank you, all of you, for all the input, it's an honor to be part of this forum! Erik
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/23 13:37:05
(permalink)
The fine folks here have brought up most of the things I would have and yes... all this stuff can indeed be overwhelming AND takes a lot of experimenting/practice to really get a hang of (I'm 5 years in and still learning new things all the time). HOWEVER... you should post anything you come up with into the Songs forum for extra advice as you grow. Do not wait until you think you have something that will "meet up" to the forum's high standards. You WANT to post the early experiments because these folks will listen and provide advice to get you to where you want faster. My point is... if you REALLY want to learn how to nail down your sound don't hold back from posting to the Songs forum. There is no pomp, judgement or expectations (aside from some of the occasional ridiculous trolls but if they show up just ignore them). It has many REALLY knowledgable, experienced and friendly folks just ready to help out. The Songs subforum, IMO, is the crown jewel of this site... and that's saying something because there's a lot of good stuff going on around here. Good luck and have fun.
|
mgh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8594
- Joined: 2007/05/10 05:15:56
- Location: betwixt and between
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/23 16:03:26
(permalink)
tlw While metal's not really my thing there's a couple of suggestions I'd throw in.
If you're layering riffing distorted guitars, as well as equalising each one slightly differently, make each track's guitar tone less distorted than you think it needs to be - that way there will still be some transients, and punch needs transients, rather than everything being more squashed than everything else, and the distortion will multiply up all by itself as the tracks are layered. One reason Mesas have clean/crunch channels, and why the comparatively lower-gain JCM800 is so popular, is because riffs come across as more powerful if cleaner than flat-out lead tones.
So another thing that might be worth trying is to record some of the rhythm tracks as clean or almost clean guitars or use an acoustic guitar for a one or two of the tracks. Again, it's about creating some stand-out transients to give the riff shape rather than everything having its RMS almost equal to peak volumes all the time.
lots of helpful advice on this thread, and yes multi-tracking, panning, tweaking the tone slightly is important, as is HPF, but this point is also important - don't set your gain to 10 on all tracks...lowering the gain means less saturation/compression and multi-tracking works better...
|
eph221
Max Output Level: -28.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4665
- Joined: 2014/12/22 05:06:50
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/23 16:39:21
(permalink)
Beepster Oh... and as a guitar player there is a LOT of technique involved in getting that tight bottom end. You need to REALLY have good "right hand/picking" technique. This means ultra tight picking AND having the ability to really manipulate your pick attack via palm muting to open picking to adding subtle (and not so subtle) levels of "pinch harmonics" on your rhythm parts. Right hand technique is MASSIVELY important to slick rhythm tracks. Much more so than "the most perfectest metal amplage EVAR!" in my opinion. Once I write something and even track it "perfectly" as far as the notes and timing I practice it a buttload of times to really nail the right hand nuances so it hits the sims and other guits/instruments in just the right way. Of course this isn't even TOUCHING on the concept of doubling, panning, mirror EQing of rhythm guits which you should look into as well. Cheers.
Beepster is correct. Try different picks as well. The heavier the pick the more rhythmic the result.
|
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10037
- Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
- Location: SL,UT
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/24 11:27:44
(permalink)
if you are dead set on capturing 'metal' tones at less than bedroom volumes, the single best answer to this is a KEMPER profiler. just go all in. 2nd best, is to get a good tube amp, run it into this: http://www.humbuckermusic.com/products/suhr-reactive-load?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=3328173569&gclid=CJ679_Xe888CFQgaaQodo8cB3g direct recording. my rig:mesa boogie markIIb speaker out into palmer PDI-09 (captures direct full strength amp with cab filter into line level output), thru out of the palmer into a WEBER MASS LITE attenuator>>out of attenuator into (2) 1x12 cabs, one of which i typically mic up.the attenuator allows me to bring the room volume down to a very reasonable level,for monitoring,but the signal goes direct into my interface (or preamp) from the palmer, seeing the amp 'full up'. i also have the option to mic a cab as well, and mix that channel with the direct channel.
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/25 07:17:31
(permalink)
batsbrew if you are dead set on capturing 'metal' tones at less than bedroom volumes, the single best answer to this is a KEMPER profiler. just go all in.
2nd best, is to get a good tube amp, run it into this: http://www.humbuckermusic.com/products/suhr-reactive-load?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=3328173569&gclid=CJ679_Xe888CFQgaaQodo8cB3g direct recording. my rig: mesa boogie markIIb speaker out into palmer PDI-09 (captures direct full strength amp with cab filter into line level output), thru out of the palmer into a WEBER MASS LITE attenuator>>out of attenuator into (2) 1x12 cabs, one of which i typically mic up. the attenuator allows me to bring the room volume down to a very reasonable level, for monitoring, but the signal goes direct into my interface (or preamp) from the palmer, seeing the amp 'full up'. i also have the option to mic a cab as well, and mix that channel with the direct channel.
Woot! That Kemper thing costs as much as my Engl amp itself: 1800€/$, meh.. The suhr solution looks promising though.. At the moment I'm using a DIY attenuator (basically just an L-pad really). So I might do a little investement.
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/25 07:19:38
(permalink)
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
apbradbury
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4
- Joined: 2015/09/13 21:00:46
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/25 11:41:35
(permalink)
Kind of late to the party, but may be can offer a few suggestions. I have tried various amp sims, but have never really gotten a good metal sound. Much better with an SM57 and a guitar head/cabinet. Doesn't have to be cranked to 11 to get a good sound. Main thing is to get the amp sounding how you like it, then mic it. Close mic may be 4-6 inches just off center from the speaker. As others have suggested, roll off some of the bottom end of the guitar so that the bass and kick can come out. I eq the kick and bass slightly different so each take up a different place in the mix and can be heard. A little compression on the guitar track and minor tweaks in eq is all that is really needed once you have the track down. Multi-track the guitars too. At least 2 tracks panned to either side. Note that you can also fatten the sound some by playing the cords in a different position during different takes. When you pan the various guitar tracks, don't pan them to exactly the same spot. For example, pan one to 45, the other to 55, same for the other side. In some cases I have had the guitarist play an additional track hitting the main cords or simply chunking the E. Put that one dead center and back in the mix a little compared to the other guitars. A little growl on the bass and good bottom end and it will help the guitars out too.
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/25 14:12:54
(permalink)
apbradbury Close mic may be 4-6 inches just off center from the speaker.
Really? I never tried any position that far away from the speaker. I was told 2 inch max, or else I would lose attack and an aweful lot of roomambiance would come into play. Well, maybe I should give it a shot. Thanks for the other tips too!
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
Lord Tim
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 837
- Joined: 2003/11/10 10:33:43
- Location: Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/26 14:00:05
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2016/10/26 16:56:31
I've done a bit of recording of metal guitars over the years and there's a few things I've learned (sometimes the hard, expensive way)... I'm going to be repeating a few things that you already know and stuff that people have linked to but there might be something in here that might twig something and have you go "hey...... let me try that!" Apologies if I'm retreading too much stuff you've already tried! First, what you may think is a great guitar tone by itself could sound like garbage in context. A few people have mentioned guts coming from the bass or kick drums - that's certainly a valid way to do things. You'll find especially that when you start layering guitar tracks, the mud build-up in the low end gets a bit crazy and can stomp all over your other instruments. The same goes for other frequencies. The tone might sound super heavy scooped but will you hear it in the mix? You have sizzle but is it fighting with the hats and cymbals? One of the first big productions I ever did was a great learning experience. I got THE guitar tone in isolation, but in the mix it sounded like complete rubbish and I couldn't work out why. It was either overpowering or gone entirely and that's because of the clashing frequencies and all that was left was sort of empty. My advice there is to get your drums and bass EQ'd to sound good first. These things may need tweaking later, of course, but at least ball park dial them in first. Then bring in your guitars. Pan as you like (I prefer just 2 tracks of hard panned guitars but I've worked with 2 on either side and rarely there's been ones in the middle too). Listen carefully to what they're doing with the rest of the mix. When you have them cranked, can you still hear the bass? Are the kicks getting lost? If you drop the level a bit, do they still sound good or are they thin? This is telling you that they need a lot more EQ work if things are disappearing and you can't seem to find the right level. Be prepared to aggressively cut the low end to get rid of the mud, or if that's taking too much away from the tone, run them all to a buss or aux track and throw a multiband compressor over it and set one of the bands to only trigger on the mud frequencies, so everything will still sound pretty thick until you cross the line with the big chugs. I'd suggest EQ first before diving into anything like this, however. How is the high end? If you're using amp sims, they're notorious for having this fizzy plastic sound. You can fix that by aggressively rolling off the high end, much like a mic'd speaker would do. Not getting enough cut? Throw some more mids at it. By itself this will sound throaty and thin, but in context I'd wager you'll get a lot more definition. Even high gain guitar rigs can suffer from that fizzy high end syndrome, especially if you're relying on the distortion coming from pedals or the preamp section rather than belting the output stage, something you can't really do so much in a small apartment. And if you DO crank it, are you getting comb-filtering or phase cancellation off of other things in your room? Your environment can play a big part in what the mic actually hears. Still not getting the definition you'd like? That brings me to the second point: back your gain off a bit, or layer 2 sounds with different gain settings. Super heavy guitar tones sound great when you're on stage and ripping out, but in a mix, especially when you're layering a few tracks together, all of the articulation tends to get lost. Dial back your gain and then layer a few takes of the tracks together to fatten it back up again. Again, in isolation it'll sound wimpy, but layered and in context it'll make a big difference. Missing some guts after that? Do a layer of backed off guitar and then do another one cranked, but have the second track much quieter than the first one. Repeat for "guitar 2" (ie: another "backed off" and another "cranked" track) and pan left and right. Hugeness awaits! Obviously it's crucial to get this tight, and it needs to be played well to make it work, but these tricks will give you a lot more definition and guts in context. Refer back to EQ / Multiband compression if you have problems with mud after this. Finally, you can most definitely get some great tones out of amp sims, but they're not real amps and don't respond like one. If you approach things like you're recording a real amp (aside from using a Kemper, or AxFX or something) then you're gonna have a Bad Time. Treat them as what they are: understand that because something says "JCM800" on the patch that it will likely sound nothing like a real JCM800, but if you like the tone then who cares what it's supposed to be modelling? Trying to emulate someone's rig with a plugin is a lesson in futility. It'll get you part way there but take the sim as its own unique entity. I'm sure Ola would have some killer advice though - he's an approachable dude and you'll always find him around the place offering advice to people looking for tones. I'm not huge on some of the tones he pulls personally, but what he does, he does extremely well and it works great for the style he's going for. Hit him up! Anyway, I'm sure I've reiterated a lot of stuff that was already tried/said, but hopefully someone finds something useful here. Good luck!
|
BASSJOKER
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 247
- Joined: 2015/04/23 15:34:05
- Location: Ocean City , Md
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/26 14:23:45
(permalink)
Great points Lord T... especially the Sim / Real Amp advice and such....always appreciate all recording tips and views around here ;o) thanks all
-Steve MC7, Lexicon Alpha, Win10,Toshiba,Sat L955,Intel I5 1.7G, 6G Ram, 64 Bit, Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Marshall, Vox, Ashdown
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/26 15:01:35
(permalink)
Lord Tim I've done a bit of recording of metal guitars over the years and there's a few things I've learned (sometimes the hard, expensive way)... I'm going to be repeating a few things that you already know and stuff that people have linked to but there might be something in here that might twig something and have you go "hey...... let me try that!" Apologies if I'm retreading too much stuff you've already tried! First, what you may think is a great guitar tone by itself could sound like garbage in context. A few people have mentioned guts coming from the bass or kick drums - that's certainly a valid way to do things. You'll find especially that when you start layering guitar tracks, the mud build-up in the low end gets a bit crazy and can stomp all over your other instruments. The same goes for other frequencies. The tone might sound super heavy scooped but will you hear it in the mix? You have sizzle but is it fighting with the hats and cymbals? One of the first big productions I ever did was a great learning experience. I got THE guitar tone in isolation, but in the mix it sounded like complete rubbish and I couldn't work out why. It was either overpowering or gone entirely and that's because of the clashing frequencies and all that was left was sort of empty. My advice there is to get your drums and bass EQ'd to sound good first. These things may need tweaking later, of course, but at least ball park dial them in first. Then bring in your guitars. Pan as you like (I prefer just 2 tracks of hard panned guitars but I've worked with 2 on either side and rarely there's been ones in the middle too). Listen carefully to what they're doing with the rest of the mix. When you have them cranked, can you still hear the bass? Are the kicks getting lost? If you drop the level a bit, do they still sound good or are they thin? This is telling you that they need a lot more EQ work if things are disappearing and you can't seem to find the right level. Be prepared to aggressively cut the low end to get rid of the mud, or if that's taking too much away from the tone, run them all to a buss or aux track and throw a multiband compressor over it and set one of the bands to only trigger on the mud frequencies, so everything will still sound pretty thick until you cross the line with the big chugs. I'd suggest EQ first before diving into anything like this, however. How is the high end? If you're using amp sims, they're notorious for having this fizzy plastic sound. You can fix that by aggressively rolling off the high end, much like a mic'd speaker would do. Not getting enough cut? Throw some more mids at it. By itself this will sound throaty and thin, but in context I'd wager you'll get a lot more definition. Even high gain guitar rigs can suffer from that fizzy high end syndrome, especially if you're relying on the distortion coming from pedals or the preamp section rather than belting the output stage, something you can't really do so much in a small apartment. And if you DO crank it, are you getting comb-filtering or phase cancellation off of other things in your room? Your environment can play a big part in what the mic actually hears. Still not getting the definition you'd like? That brings me to the second point: back your gain off a bit, or layer 2 sounds with different gain settings. Super heavy guitar tones sound great when you're on stage and ripping out, but in a mix, especially when you're layering a few tracks together, all of the articulation tends to get lost. Dial back your gain and then layer a few takes of the tracks together to fatten it back up again. Again, in isolation it'll sound wimpy, but layered and in context it'll make a big difference. Missing some guts after that? Do a layer of backed off guitar and then do another one cranked, but have the second track much quieter than the first one. Repeat for "guitar 2" (ie: another "backed off" and another "cranked" track) and pan left and right. Hugeness awaits! Obviously it's crucial to get this tight, and it needs to be played well to make it work, but these tricks will give you a lot more definition and guts in context. Refer back to EQ / Multiband compression if you have problems with mud after this. Finally, you can most definitely get some great tones out of amp sims, but they're not real amps and don't respond like one. If you approach things like you're recording a real amp (aside from using a Kemper, or AxFX or something) then you're gonna have a Bad Time. Treat them as what they are: understand that because something says "JCM800" on the patch that it will likely sound nothing like a real JCM800, but if you like the tone then who cares what it's supposed to be modelling? Trying to emulate someone's rig with a plugin is a lesson in futility. It'll get you part way there but take the sim as its own unique entity. I'm sure Ola would have some killer advice though - he's an approachable dude and you'll always find him around the place offering advice to people looking for tones. I'm not huge on some of the tones he pulls personally, but what he does, he does extremely well and it works great for the style he's going for. Hit him up! Anyway, I'm sure I've reiterated a lot of stuff that was already tried/said, but hopefully someone finds something useful here. Good luck!
Waw. Just waw. How can I thank you enough? This is a first class forum. The knowledge gathered here is outstanding!! Now, you can't get me in touch with Ola, can you? hehe haha huhu woohoo
post edited by straighttothebar - 2016/10/26 15:31:25
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
Voda La Void
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 723
- Joined: 2011/02/12 09:15:07
- Location: Broken Arrow, OK
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/26 16:56:06
(permalink)
Great, thoughtful posts in this thread. Lord Tim First, what you may think is a great guitar tone by itself could sound like garbage in context. A few people have mentioned guts coming from the bass or kick drums - that's certainly a valid way to do things. You'll find especially that when you start layering guitar tracks, the mud build-up in the low end gets a bit crazy and can stomp all over your other instruments.
But it's hard to quantify that in my mind. I think it would be extremely ear opening to hear an example of that. An A/B comparison of a guitar tone by itself - one that's obviously good on it's own, and then one that has been EQ'd to work in context of a given mix. Just to get a feel for the difference.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
|
Lord Tim
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 837
- Joined: 2003/11/10 10:33:43
- Location: Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/26 19:18:16
(permalink)
Cheers, guys! :) Definitely keep mind a lot of the other great ideas people have come up with in this thread too - I do agree, this is seriously a great forum and there's so many different approaches, I'm always learning killer things from other people here too. A different perspective is sometimes all you need to try something out and lead you to something which works for you, even if it's nothing like what was originally suggested.
I've been wanting to do a "zero to final production" kind of project where I use nothing but SONAR plugins, including the amp sims and drum sounds and either video it or document it along the way. That'd show the in-context guitar tone thing. Now I just have to find the time - anyone with a spare TARDIS or Delorean I can borrow? Haha!
|
ØSkald
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1248
- Joined: 2010/12/22 16:52:47
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/27 08:53:55
(permalink)
I'm going to buy a Palmer Daccapo now and try out some reamping. that way you can try out mics, plasement etc as much as you like (or has time to). Tho I'm quite happy with Amplitube. But the first thing, as Beepster said, is to play it right, on a guitar with hot Humbacker pickups.
Asus TUF Z370-Pro Gaming, Bugera Trirec Infinium, Cakewalk Platinum, Corsair RM750 750W, Corsair Vengeance DDR4 4x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 960 2GB, Genelec 6010A with 5040A sub, Ibanez AEG10II BK, Ibanez Iron Label RGIR27E BK, Ibanez Iron Label RGIR28FE BK, Ibanez RG550 RF, Ibanez RG570 FMCS, Ibanez SR506 BM, Intel Core i7 8700K, USB, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate with Kontrol S61, Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe SSD, Samsung SSDs 840 EVO 1TB, Toontrack EZdrummer 2, Toontrack EZMix 2, Toontrack Superior Drummer 3, UA Apollo Twin Duo, Windows 10 Pro
|
ABull
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1161
- Joined: 2010/04/24 14:37:13
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/28 18:16:27
(permalink)
Fascinating and informative discussion -- thanks all
|
tfbattag
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 422
- Joined: 2006/02/16 13:22:03
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/11/26 20:02:08
(permalink)
Thomas Battaglia :wq! ----------------------------------------------------------- Intel DP35DP, Q6600, 6GB RAM, Win7Pro x64; RME HDSPe RayDAT; RME ADI8-DS x2, RME ADI-2.
|
tfbattag
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 422
- Joined: 2006/02/16 13:22:03
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/11/26 20:04:21
(permalink)
...oh, and I have found for ballsy rhythm, a Shure SM7B close to the cone and a ribbon of your choosing about 20 inches away (check phase) mixed sounds great.
Thomas Battaglia :wq! ----------------------------------------------------------- Intel DP35DP, Q6600, 6GB RAM, Win7Pro x64; RME HDSPe RayDAT; RME ADI8-DS x2, RME ADI-2.
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2017/03/23 19:09:19
(permalink)
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
Voda La Void
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 723
- Joined: 2011/02/12 09:15:07
- Location: Broken Arrow, OK
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2017/03/23 20:09:57
(permalink)
straighttothebar I think I'm finally on to something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaLh4jnrIig Thanks all again for your answers :)
Yes! That sounds great. So what did you do differently to achieve that sound? You've definitely come a long way from that original recording you shared. Sounds so good. Also, I noticed you're playing a 6 string..is that a baritone guitar or did you just get some fat strings and tune them down? I just tried down tuning one of my guitars, to a B on the bottom string, and it sounds like it's struggling to stay in tune...
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2017/03/24 04:10:18
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2017/03/24 13:22:07
Dropping a guitar down that low is going to cause problems unless you use very heavy strings, recut the nut to suit and set up the intonation, action and neck relief to match the string tension and gauge. I've a couple of guitars I tune down a tone to D, one in open tuning one "standard" and I find I have to go up a gauge in strings for every tone I drop the tuning. So on a Fender scale for dropping to D "standard" (DGCFAD) I use a .011-.050 set and it still feels pretty light. On a Gibson scale for playing slide in D I use .013-.056 and it's not as tight as you might imagine. To drop to B I'd reckon on somewhere around a .060 or bigger for the bottom string. John Etheridge has a Tele with a couple of bass strings replacing the low E and A to play bass backings an octave down from the guitar, and that A is only a tone lower than the lowest string you'll have if you drop to B. So looking at light bass strings might be the way to go.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2017/03/24 04:48:25
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2017/03/24 13:22:03
Voda La Void Yes! That sounds great. So what did you do differently to achieve that sound? You've definitely come a long way from that original recording you shared. Sounds so good.
Also, I noticed you're playing a 6 string..is that a baritone guitar or did you just get some fat strings and tune them down? I just tried down tuning one of my guitars, to a B on the bottom string, and it sounds like it's struggling to stay in tune...
Thanks! The video features an 1800$ ESP Eclipse II 6 string, but the actuall recording was done with a cheap 400$ Schecter Omen 6 (not sure if baritone?).. Strangely I much prefer those cheap passive Schecter diamond pickups over the active EMG's.. I didn't change that much to the ampsettings I use to have, except turning down the gain a little. The trick to achieve that guitarsound is to cut out, almost completely, the honky frequencies between 110-130hz with an eq in Sonar, and add a little around 1.4khz (the djent-frequency). An additional eq on the masterchannel cutting again the 120hz range, but boosting everything below the 100hz gives a powerfull lowend feeling. Cheers!
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10037
- Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
- Location: SL,UT
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2017/03/24 19:41:25
(permalink)
oh yea, that sounds good. i'd say you're pretty dialed in.... get busy!
|
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10037
- Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
- Location: SL,UT
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2017/03/24 19:42:10
(permalink)
put some melodic singing over that...... bingo.
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2017/03/24 20:50:27
(permalink)
batsbrew put some melodic singing over that...... bingo.
Wish I could grunt or scream, but I can't.. Volunteer(s)?
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|