straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Metal recording and the lack of balls.
Yay, Is there anyone who has a little experience recording and mixing high gain guitars?? For years, yes years, I'm trying to achieve something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bwbCoT7ZIcFor me it's just not working, no matter what I'm trying to do, I end up having a guitar tone that lacks balls, like i'm playing through a metalzone pedal plugged in right into a speaker cabinet or something the like.. And yes I turn the gain down, and the mids reasonably high. I tried every possible mic position, speaker (its an x-pattern 4x12 v30 g12t75), etc.. and I have most of the ingredients for a decent metal soup: EMG active pickups, Tubescreamer, Engl Savage, attenuator, V30, SM57 and a black pick. Sigh. Any thoughts? UPDATE MARCH 2017: Result so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaLh4jnrIig
post edited by straighttothebar - 2017/03/25 07:12:58
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
RSMCGUITAR
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1318
- Joined: 2014/12/27 02:33:15
- Location: Toronto
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 05:22:44
(permalink)
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 06:44:38
(permalink)
RSMCGUITAR
Mega Detuning?
Cunning plan. But the guitar is detuned already, the strings are now close to touching my knees..
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
jamesg1213
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 21760
- Joined: 2006/04/18 14:42:48
- Location: SW Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 08:17:55
(permalink)
Have you tried sending the guy a message and asking him? Might be worth a shot.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 08:53:27
(permalink)
jamesg1213
Have you tried sending the guy a message and asking him? Might be worth a shot.
That would have been a good idea indeed... in 2009 or so, cause the guy, unlike me, believe me, became all famous exactly because of these demonstrations and thus doesn't reply anymore to the common youtuber. Thanks for the input though.
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
pwalpwal
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3249
- Joined: 2015/01/17 03:52:50
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 10:03:23
(permalink)
|
BASSJOKER
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 247
- Joined: 2015/04/23 15:34:05
- Location: Ocean City , Md
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 11:10:28
(permalink)
-Steve  MC7, Lexicon Alpha, Win10,Toshiba,Sat L955,Intel I5 1.7G, 6G Ram, 64 Bit, Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Marshall, Vox, Ashdown
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 12:15:09
(permalink)
pwalpwal
sos have some good stuff in this ballpark
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/extreme-metal
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mixing-metal
Thanks for the links. I don't think I've read those articles before! I quote: "Surprisingly, given the importance of guitar tones for extreme metal, once you have got the correct equipment and dialled in the right tone, actually recording the rhythm guitar tracks is usually one of the most straightforward elements of the production. There is no complex engineering technique or hidden secret to getting a great guitar sound, and some of the best metal guitar tones ever recorded were a simple combination of a great player, with the right equipment, miked up with a single SM57." Looks like I will have to continue searching for the right tone, or start being a great player.
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 12:23:00
(permalink)
BASSJOKER
Ooops....disregard....I see you already have the amp.....my bad ;o)
All is well. 
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
pwalpwal
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3249
- Joined: 2015/01/17 03:52:50
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 12:29:03
(permalink)
straighttothebar
pwalpwal
sos have some good stuff in this ballpark
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/extreme-metal
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mixing-metal
Thanks for the links. I don't think I've read those articles before!
I quote:
"Surprisingly, given the importance of guitar tones for extreme metal, once you have got the correct equipment and dialled in the right tone, actually recording the rhythm guitar tracks is usually one of the most straightforward elements of the production. There is no complex engineering technique or hidden secret to getting a great guitar sound, and some of the best metal guitar tones ever recorded were a simple combination of a great player, with the right equipment, miked up with a single SM57."
Looks like I will have to continue searching for the right tone, or start being a great player.
maybe try finding a favourite player's fx/setup? they sometimes share this kind of thing, then you'll know whether it's tone or technique ;-)
|
BASSJOKER
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 247
- Joined: 2015/04/23 15:34:05
- Location: Ocean City , Md
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 14:22:42
(permalink)
What sound you getting now ? maybe just work on you own unique sound and don't worry about nailing that particular one. ....also maybe a Red Pick will do the trick ;o)
seriously though...i hope ya find that satisfaction ya crave .....I'm working on it too ... in a diff way
;o)
-Steve MC7, Lexicon Alpha, Win10,Toshiba,Sat L955,Intel I5 1.7G, 6G Ram, 64 Bit, Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Marshall, Vox, Ashdown
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 14:41:56
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Jarsve 2016/10/27 08:42:04
The trick to "ballsy" metal guitar tones is to let the bass guit be the "balls".
Example: On your rhythm guits use a high pass filter to yank out a huge chunk of the lower freqs on the guitar to allow the bass guit through. Ideally in this scenario the bass will be very tight with the rhythm guits. That doesn't mean the bass is duplicating the rhythm guits exactly (bass turns to mud when picked very fast in thick mixes). Just that when the bass IS plucked that it accentuates a pluck on your rhythm guits (which will also hopefully correspond with the drums).
Basically the bass becomes the "low end" of your guit parts and mix while at the same time interacting with the drums in a thoughtful way.
The "ballsy guitars" of most well produced metal mixes are actually very "thin" if heard in isolation. This is why it's important to have a good, solid bass player who knows how to mesh well with the rhythm guits and drums at the same time without going crazy.
For "riff" sections where the bass and drums stop that "thin" sound can sound weak/bad on it's own though. My solution is to automate the hipass EQ to allow the low freqs of the amp/amp sim on the rhythm guit tracks through when isolated riffage is going on. I'd imagine a carefully setup up dynamic EQ or multiband compressor with sidechaining would work too without the automation futzery.
Full disclosure: Not a pro engineer and these concepts have been extrapolated based on the advice of folks around here (most notably, but not limited to, Danny Danzi) and my own experimentation.
Those SOS articles are very nice too but I don't think cover this aspect as well as it could. They fall back on the "use REALLY good amps stoopid" which of course isn't always possible. In my case I went cray-balls on learning my amp sims inside and out to get the sounds I want and they work almost as (or just as) good as I could likely pull of with real amps with like 1/100th of the PITA, expense, hassle, etc.
High gain metal is one of the most difficult genres to mix.
Good luck.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 14:52:21
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Jarsve 2016/10/27 08:43:19
Oh... and as a guitar player there is a LOT of technique involved in getting that tight bottom end. You need to REALLY have good "right hand/picking" technique. This means ultra tight picking AND having the ability to really manipulate your pick attack via palm muting to open picking to adding subtle (and not so subtle) levels of "pinch harmonics" on your rhythm parts. Right hand technique is MASSIVELY important to slick rhythm tracks. Much more so than "the most perfectest metal amplage EVAR!" in my opinion.
Once I write something and even track it "perfectly" as far as the notes and timing I practice it a buttload of times to really nail the right hand nuances so it hits the sims and other guits/instruments in just the right way.
Of course this isn't even TOUCHING on the concept of doubling, panning, mirror EQing of rhythm guits which you should look into as well.
Cheers.
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 15:00:53
(permalink)
BASSJOKER
What sound you getting now ? maybe just work on you own unique sound and don't worry about nailing that particular one.
Well, here's a short example of somtn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey3Wpn0wBO4&Made this video earlier to demonstrate a bug I had in Sonar.. BASSJOKER
....also maybe a Red Pick will do the trick ;o)
Do not question the importance of the Black Pick. Thank you. BASSJOKER
seriously though...i hope ya find that satisfaction ya crave .....I'm working on it too ... in a diff way
;o)
Thanks! Now you made me curious, go on, hit me, what different way? :-)
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 15:10:11
(permalink)
Yay Beepster, I appreciate that, but it's too much to take in for now, lemme go to bed and sleep and what not and read it thoroughly tomorrow! Thanks, Cheers
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5139
- Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
- Location: Ballarat, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/15 15:18:16
(permalink)
When you listen to that track the bottom end is coming from three places. The bass guitars mainly, kick and the guitars. But the bass and kick have got about 90% of the overall deep sound in the mix. That kick by the way is also adding depth and punch to the sound but it has the rhythmic pulsating feel in the mix.
Guitars need bottom end too but not too much. And not too little either. It is easy to carve out too much of the guitar bottom end sound too. The way I get the balance right is to run the final guitars through a HPF and carefully move the cutoff freq around while listening to everything. (Note: that slope in the HPF is important too. Its setting depends on how much low end you have recorded and how much needs to be slightly carved away) There will be a point where the guitar low end meets the bass and kick nicely. Still adding in some weight and power into the rhythm gtrs but staying clear of the deepness coming from the bass sound.
Sounds to me you may not be getting the bass/kick sounds right. You need to get that sorted before getting near any guitar low end adjustments.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/16 00:02:33
(permalink)
First off thank you Beepster and thank you Jeff Evans.
Now that is some piece of advice right there. I knew I came to the right place.
I'd like to say a few words about amp sims.
I have tried amp sims before too, from the free ones (lepou, Ignite, Nick Crow lab,..) to the commercial ones (Amplitube, TH2/3, Revalver, Line6, Guitar Rig,..) but I personally find it hard to find and then KEEP a tone with them, because there are just too many variables and possible setups. For instance Amplitube: once you find an amp you like, the party begins: which cabinet? 4x12? 2x12? 1x12? brand? which mic? how many mics? mic position? room ambiance on? off? which speakers? Or rather a guitar impulse?
I admit, the tones you get out of it require much less work once recorded, like eq'ing compressing etc.. But no matter which amp sim free or not, I end up thinking, ok not bad, but this isn't MY tone, I didn't create it. Are you following?
I see both of you talk about taking out the lower frequencies out of the guitar, so there's more room left for the bassguitar. This is probably the best advice one can get. I played in a band for about 10 years and I always thought of the bassplayer as a friendly person to fill the stage, and do some heavy lifting afterwards. Now, years later, here in my homestudio, I realize, I was mistaken. The bassguitar is the glue that keeps the song together. I can see that. And yet, looks like I still don't pay enough attention to it. Time to shift my focus.
Thanks again for all the input.
Cheers
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2819
- Joined: 2011/02/03 04:31:35
- Location: Sound-Rehab, Austria
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/16 01:36:10
(permalink)
straighttothebar
I played in a band for about 10 years and I always thought of the bassplayer as a friendly person to fill the stage, and do some heavy lifting afterwards. Now, years later, here in my homestudio, I realize, I was mistaken.
if you hadn't added the 2nd sentence I thought you'd be Lars Ulrich in disguise, trying to break into the guitar realm ;-)
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/16 02:00:06
(permalink)
Rob[atSound-Rehab]
if you hadn't added the 2nd sentence I thought you'd be Lars Ulrich in disguise, trying to break into the guitar realm ;-)
Haha, yeah... ... no I would never apologize in public.. Wait, Jason is that you?
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
BASSJOKER
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 247
- Joined: 2015/04/23 15:34:05
- Location: Ocean City , Md
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/16 19:13:08
(permalink)
Lol......i perked up a lil on that Bass banter there a moment....nice ya did see the light. I played Bass many years with pals ...it is the glue ...and changes a song/feel quickly if not taken seriously in so many aspects. That said....I have played guitar far longer and with more passion and it is more my focus again for many moons.
My nemesis at the moment is learnin'/dialing in my recording/prod/mixdown skills to get a demo recorded . My pal (drums) n I are putting a new band together but... I have been dealing with a broken/sprained index finger (fret hand... :o( ...) that after a few weeks I can finally play a lil but very carefully ...for short times to get it dialed in again. The pain that still lingers is a bummer and its a drag to lose so much pick'n time...thank goodness for what I did have recorded to work with in the mean time. Sorry for the rant.... as for the gtr sim vs. real amp deal ....I go thru that a bit too ....though for the demo mode of all this I like the quick and dirty Sim(mostly Amp4) vs taming my 1/2 stack in the small recording space I know have.
....time to wrap up here ....look forward to hearing your successful recordings....your youtube audio is getting there....I agree with the advice above....it certainly works for many around here and makes sense. I try to test/utilize all the lil advice given on these forums....tremendous help all around. Thanks to all for that ;o)
-Steve MC7, Lexicon Alpha, Win10,Toshiba,Sat L955,Intel I5 1.7G, 6G Ram, 64 Bit, Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Marshall, Vox, Ashdown
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/17 11:29:32
(permalink)
straighttothebar
First off thank you Beepster and thank you Jeff Evans.
Now that is some piece of advice right there. I knew I came to the right place.
I'd like to say a few words about amp sims.
I have tried amp sims before too, from the free ones (lepou, Ignite, Nick Crow lab,..) to the commercial ones (Amplitube, TH2/3, Revalver, Line6, Guitar Rig,..) but I personally find it hard to find and then KEEP a tone with them, because there are just too many variables and possible setups. For instance Amplitube: once you find an amp you like, the party begins: which cabinet? 4x12? 2x12? 1x12? brand? which mic? how many mics? mic position? room ambiance on? off? which speakers? Or rather a guitar impulse?
I admit, the tones you get out of it require much less work once recorded, like eq'ing compressing etc.. But no matter which amp sim free or not, I end up thinking, ok not bad, but this isn't MY tone, I didn't create it. Are you following?
I see both of you talk about taking out the lower frequencies out of the guitar, so there's more room left for the bassguitar. This is probably the best advice one can get. I played in a band for about 10 years and I always thought of the bassplayer as a friendly person to fill the stage, and do some heavy lifting afterwards. Now, years later, here in my homestudio, I realize, I was mistaken. The bassguitar is the glue that keeps the song together. I can see that. And yet, looks like I still don't pay enough attention to it. Time to shift my focus.
Thanks again for all the input.
Cheers
Check back on this thread. I'm in the middle of writing/tracking some stuff but if I remember I will post a slew of tricks and crap I've learned about sims over the past 4-5 years. Might actually be helpful to refresh myself on a lot of that as well because I'm about to launch into a pile of complex metal/hardcore guitar tweakery. In the meantime to get close to "your tone" just choose an amp model of the real life amp you usually use (or as close as you can get it) and for mics just use SM57 models for now. For metal one 57 set to "Edge" (edge of the cone position at 90 degree angle) and another set to 45 degrees and blending the two should be pretty foolproof. You can add "rear" mic as well for a bit of extra whomp but I find too much of that rear sound muddies things up too much for my style. If you have an effects/pedal chain you usually use again find similar models (if you use common effects they are usually modeled just under different names) and set them up how you normally would live (pedal before amp > insert effects between head and cab > post effects after cab... etc). Also to get the most out of the head models try inserting a simple Gain effect module or something that allows you to boost your dry signal before it hits the input of the amp head sim. Good amp simulations respond like normal amps would to signal boosting... and that is it will drive the virtual "tubes" harder to get more distortion. Check it out. Also... do you own the full version of TH2 or just the one stripped down one that came with Sonar? Do you own GR5? Cheers.
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/17 15:57:17
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2016/11/08 06:33:38
Beeps makes good metal tones.
This I know.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/17 16:44:29
(permalink)
Tee hee!
Oh, you...
*blushes*
|
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10037
- Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
- Location: SL,UT
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/20 13:23:48
(permalink)
to me,
the balls in a good metal tone,
is about moving air, not adding bass, to guitars.
the microphone (say, a 57) needs to have that diaphrahm moving, and a well placed mic on a good sounding cab/speaker will get you most of the way there.
then, it's a matter of eq at mixdown, to allow the thump to happen, but not muddy the waters.
of course, the arrangement of the song comes into play,
and you have to have the bass and kick locked in as if they are one mechanism.
to get it to gell in the mix correctly,
you have to pick separate frequencies that the lowest point of the kick EQ, point of the bass, and then higher than those, the point of the guitar all have there own sonic space to thrive.
if you don't play tight,
it'll never happen no matter how you capture it or eq it.
|
vdd
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 92
- Joined: 2014/12/22 17:26:14
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/20 14:46:50
(permalink)
I checked the track in SONAR:
It sounds like at least 4 layers of guitar, playing the same riff but panned hard left and right. It feels like some "Hard Opposite Scooping" at each side to let two tracks sound like one. This alone does make a riff sounds big....
The frequency response (Check it in PC-EQ!) is very straight over a wide area. He used different sounds settings for the individual tracks (left and right). This will add up nicely.
Even more important: The guy is really tight!
If you copy, mono, and switch the phase of the track you will get an idea of what is happining at the side spectrum.
I am not 100% sure, but without the bass guitar 90% of the punch is gone... Or, he panned just the mid and high frequencies of the guitar left and right - but that would be a real surprise.
Track = Great player + great recording and mxing techniques (+ cool riffs)
S-Plat x64 / i7-4790-3.60GHZ, 32GB RAM, Win 7 x64, Akai MPC Studio, Arturia Microbrute, Doepfer A-100, VTB-1, RME HDSPe
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/20 14:47:02
(permalink)
batsbrew
to me,
the balls in a good metal tone,
is about moving air
I agree, but I'm afraid this is the problem for every "bedroom producer". Though I use an attenuator to push those powertubes a little more, the overall volume remains the same: too low, not nearly enough air gets pushed onto that sm57. batsbrew
if you don't play tight,
it'll never happen no matter how you capture it or eq it.
Spot on. Eventually, in the end, it all boils down to one thing: talent. I'm very aware i'm a mediocre guitarplayer, actually, now that I come to think of it, I'm mediocre in alot of things, except for drinking beer, maybe. But, at least for me, there's nothing that can grasp emotions and feelings better than music. In particular (scandinavian) deathmetal, should you want to know it. A well placed minor chord in between powerchords, a dirty ugly verse followed by a melancholic chorus, a slow harmonic solo,.. these things can express so many things from joy and strenght to sadness and despair, depending on the situation you're in, I guess. There were many times I said to myself, what are you doing in here? There are hundreds of others, educated sound engineers, doing a better job than you making music, shouldn't you be outside and be happy, like 99% of the rest of the world. But I won't give up. Even if it's just one song, I will make it. Haha, I really should quit the beer now.
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/20 14:50:32
(permalink)
vdd
Track = Great player + great recording and mxing techniques (+ cool riffs)
See, even vdd agrees.
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/20 14:58:51
(permalink)
vdd
Track = Great player + great recording and mxing techniques (+ cool riffs)
Well, I have a great DAW. That has to count for something even if I'm 0 for 4, yes? 
|
straighttothebar
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 71
- Joined: 2015/09/02 08:26:23
- Location: Belgium
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/20 15:00:33
(permalink)
PC: Asus Crosshair V Formula - AMD FX6350 4.3GHz - 12GB DDR3 RAM - NVIDIA Geforce GTS450 - Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX - Novation Impulse 49 - SONAR Artist - Windows 10GEAR: ESP Eclipse II Snow White - Schecter Omen Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups- Gibson SG - ENGL Savage 120 - Marshall 1960 Lead Cab - Shure SM57 - Shure SM48 - Shure Super 55SOUNDCLOUD: https://soundcloud.com/indecemberofficialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/indecemberofficial/
|
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10037
- Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
- Location: SL,UT
- Status: offline
Re: Metal recording and the lack of balls.
2016/10/20 15:03:48
(permalink)
i think you don't have to be a great player....
you just have to have a great vision.
metal can be heavy, and simple. don't let that stop you from dialing in your scope of skill, and recording something heavy as phuck
|