brundlefly
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/22 10:55:57
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normeughdge But how do I know what plugins are PDC induced, and what do you mean "run the transport for the first time?" Also, when I record, I record raw! No effects. I apply all effects after all my tracks are recorded.
"Run the transport" means start playback or recording (carryover terminology from tape recorders - like "dialing" the phone  ). Once PDC is calculated and applied on that initial playback/record, it will continue to be active after you stop the transport. Since SONAR doesn't report plugin delay, you just have to be familiar enough with your plugins to know which ones require PDC; it's usually noted in the plugin's documentation. And note that the purpose of PDC is to delay all tracks that aren't delayed by the plugin to keep them in sync with tracks or buses hosting the plugin. So if you record a track, and then add a PDC-inducing plugin to it, new tracks will be affected by that. The PDC [override] button in the mix module can be used to temporarily override PDC on input-monitored tracks so you can record without latency (you'll be playing to a delayed output, so it isn't needed). If you really don't have any FX plugins in the project until after everything has been tracked, it PDC wouldn't be a problem, but I don't know of anything else that consistently causes delay only after you run the transport. Interface buffering latency would usually be present all the time, not just when you start recording. Nevetheless, I agree you should un-install ASIO4All, and figure out how to get the Roland working with its own native ASIO drivers rather than WDM.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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normeughdge
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/22 21:52:28
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Hi guys. I uninstalled the asio4all v2 drivers. And I already have the asio focusrite drivers, and checked to make sure i have the latest drivers and have configured them into my Sonar X3 Producer. It works! But I'm still getting the latency. I slid my asio buffer down to 4 then 3, and It's still there. But I believe I'm a step in the right direction by using the Focusrite Drivers. Here are some of my specs: I have a windows 7 premium, Service Pak 1. Processor Intel (R) Pentium (R) 4 CPU 3.40 Hz - 3.39GHz. 4.00 GB Ram, 32 bit. Using Sonar X3 Producer. Focusrite 2i4 Audio interface, and Alesis QX49 Midi Keyboard controller. I'm noticing at the bottom of the Driver setting page in Preferences, I'm showing: Input 11.2 msec/492 samples, the Output 15.2/669 samples. Total round up 26.3 msec/1161 samples. Does any of that make a difference? Also the Mixing Latency - Buffers in playback Queue is 2, which is greyed out, and the buffer size slider is all way to the left and is also greyed out. Not sure what any of that means. Appreciate all the help I can get. Thanks everyone!
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mettelus
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/22 23:47:56
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The buffer slider is greyed out when in ASIO mode, and the buffer is controlled by the interface software (the ASIO panel button should open the Focusrite window). Try lowering the buffer in the Focusrite panel. Make sure the transport is not running and you may need to re-enable the audio engine after adjustments. For recording you will want a 10ms round trip. Also beware that this can raise CPU load, so is common to bypass FX when recording (when possible), but use higher buffer when mixing (at that point latency doesn't throw you). This is an adjustment to become familiar with for your specific system.
post edited by mettelus - 2015/06/22 23:55:22
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normeughdge
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/23 18:08:33
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Thanks "mettelus," for that info. I have been adjusting the buffer, but I'm still experiencing some latency. And I'm not sure I know what you mean when you say to, "re-enable the audio engine," after making the adjustments. Or Is that the same thing as "running the transport for the first time," as suggested by "brundlefly." Which would make sense being that my latency problem seems to start only when I engage the transport. But how do I get a round trip of 10ms? With my buffer down to 3, my Input is 9.2 msec with 404 samples, Output is 12.2 msec with 537 samples and my round trip is 21.3 msec with 941 samples.
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Cactus Music
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/23 20:46:09
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You computer is a little under powered by modern standards, so therefore Focusrite drives are only allowing you so much. Your readings look about what I'd expect from that system. If you go to low on buffers you'll get dropouts.
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normeughdge
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/23 21:08:29
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Thanks "Catcus Music." I found out about the drop outs thru trial and error.
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mettelus
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/24 04:11:32
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Trial and error is the only way to do it (each system is specific). Here is an old post I made specific to tweaking settings inside SONAR. However, there are also system functions which can readily interfere with latency inside a machine. I recently did a reformat of this machine and made a specific focus as I brought it back online to kill all of those and will make a post on that in the next couple days. As a start, there is a utility called Latency Monitor ("LatencyMon") on the left edge under System Monitoring on this page. That is a good utility to run and see what your system is doing to you (is downloaded in the "Free Downloads," also on the left edge). Sorry for the curt reply earlier, I have been on a cell phone mostly the past few days. The Audio Engine is a button in the control bar (transport module below the clock). It looks like this, and is what turns on/off the audio engine in SONAR. When you make audio interface changes with SONAR open, sometimes SONAR will disengage so that they can again be mated properly. If that is off (or ever goes off), SONAR cannot make sound for you. It is one of those things to always check first in a "no sound" scenario, then mutes/solos, input echoes, etc.
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normeughdge
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/25 00:34:17
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Another think I wanted to bring up is how many soft synths, or internal instruments can you use in a project before you start having droupouts, choppy playback or latency? Or what if I just wanted to make an entire song using just midi for all the music like, drums, bass, maybe 2 guitars, keyboards, strings and horns. Can I make a project like that or bigger without putting to much on my cpu or causing any problems with recording or playback, and still be able to add like some reverb and compression on my voice tracks?
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mettelus
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/25 01:11:42
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Depending on how intensive the soft synth is, they can begin to eat up resources fairly quickly. It is significantly easier for a computer to "stream audio" rather than think about "processing each and every sample." Freezing synths is a common technique to unload CPU processing (there are others), but this essentially turns what the soft synth's MIDI track is telling it to do into an audio file. You can also unfreeze it later to do more editing to the track.
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normeughdge
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/25 10:49:09
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Thanks again mettelus. I didn't know anything about "freezing." But I do know the more tracks you have or the bigger the project the more problems you can have, as I've experienced this before. Something else I wanted to ask which is unrelated to the latency topic. On this forum, I see that everyone (except me) has an image of something, as You have a picture of a car. Also everyone's spec's are at the bottom of their post. How can I add a image and include my specs like this?
post edited by normeughdge - 2015/06/25 11:04:27
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Zargg
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/25 11:26:34
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normeughdge On this forum, I see that everyone (except me) has an image of something, as You have a picture of a car. Also everyone's spec's are at the bottom of their post. How can I add a image and include my specs like this?
At the top of this page, you should have User Control Panel, beside your ID. There you will have the option to add picture, signature, etc. Best of luck.
post edited by Zargg71 - 2015/06/25 11:33:24
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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normeughdge
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/06/25 19:09:03
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Windows 7, Service pak 1, processor: 4 cpu/3.40 GHz 3.39 GHz. 4.00 GB ram, 32 bit. External Hardrive: Toshiba Canvio usb 3.0 + 2.0/1.0 TB. Focusrite 2i4 audio interface. Alesis QX49 Midi keyboard Controller
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normeughdge
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/23 21:24:45
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Hi guys! I'm back with the same midi latency problems! Back in June 2015, I joined this forum, cause I just got a midi keyboard, and alot of you guys helped me with this "midi stuff!" So far, trying all the suggestions that you guys gave me, an I appreciate all of it. but the fact is, I'm still having alot of problems, as this midi stuff sometimes just sucks! Its seems to work sometimes and just partially. And other times can't get it to work properly at all! Lot of times I opt out from using it, cause I keep getting all these problems trying to record. Latency, dropouts, slugglish playback, skipped notes etc..., it's just frustrating! I'm constantly sliding the buffer back and forth, changing settings, and doing all that was suggested. Now don't get me wrong, I love my midi keyboard, and all the sounds and instruments i can do in sonar x3 producer, but if I can't use it to record with.......??? So guys, I'm asking for further assistance. Please Help!!
Windows 7, Service pak 1, processor: 4 cpu/3.40 GHz 3.39 GHz. 4.00 GB ram, 32 bit. External Hardrive: Toshiba Canvio usb 3.0 + 2.0/1.0 TB. Focusrite 2i4 audio interface. Alesis QX49 Midi keyboard Controller
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/23 21:43:12
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If you've installed ASIO4ALL again uninstall it. Have you check for the latest firmware and drivers for everything recently? (Yes again). That includes your audio interface and drivers , and keyboard esp. Maybe there is a firmware update for your keyboard Run windows update everywhere. Go to the Intel driver update site. Defrag. If that is no good reread the thread again (won't repeat what has already been said). If that does not help I would consider updating to 32 bit windows 10 for free (check if your drivers are compatible first). Full backup with acronis true image or something. Run windows 10 setup DVD (or USB key) within windows 7 to generate productID Then you should consider wiping your windows partition and doing a full reinstall with format (boot off USB/DVD). This time 64 bit windows 10. If it does not work, roll back, wipe and do a clean install of windows 7. 64 b. You should be moving towards 64 bit everywhere. Even if you only have 4gb memory. I would consider an upgrade to 16gb (or as much as you can afford) once you are on 64 bit. Check eBay.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/23 21:56:43
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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konradh
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/23 23:13:58
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Preferences | Driver Settings | ASIO Panel, I move t he slide down to around the number 3 while recording and then back up to 6 or 7 when mixing. This may not be your problem, but it is an extremely common one. I always use different settings for recording and for mixing. The lower number reduces latency but you may hear some clicks or pops. The higher number will produce better sound and keep Melodyne in sync. I freeze my soft synth tracks and record my external synths before mixing.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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Cactus Music
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/24 10:03:21
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You should really start a new thread, you high jacked this one originally. Hard to help when the information is repeated over and over and there are so many unanswered questions to boot. Start a new thread, state exactly what is going wrong and what the project contains.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/24 15:32:26
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Backpeddle, I notice there have been so many comments on this thread it is well and truly hijacked, if a new thread is started the same conversation will happen all over again. Not productive, it's been going since 21st June... The OP started this thread in 2012 I think he is done with it, I do agree hijacking threads not a good idea. I would hope hosts would be on the case here, they can split threads. They could even split this one and make life simple if they wanted (from post #14). I don't ever see them use the facility. (EDITED)
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/24 15:46:13
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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normeughdge
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/24 21:48:43
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Doktor Avalanche, no I haven't installed Asio4all. Using the same Asio drivers that came with my focusrite 2i4. I also checked my entire system, my midi keyboard, and my audio interface for outdated drivers, and everything is up to date. And my defrags are frequently. I've been thinking about upgrading to windows 10, but lately I've been hearing bad reviews. Sounds like there are still alot of bugs to be ironed out. But if I have to go as far as a complete unistalling windows, and then doing a complete reinstall of everything, then that would just be a bit much for me. I'd rather just continue recording with external intruments, like I've been doing the last "umteen" years, and just not use midi. I'd like to get it working properly, but not willing to go that far. Also thinking of upgrading to sonar platinum, as they are making it very affordable. I'm definetly not giving up. There has got to be a simple fix that i'm just not seeing or realizing. it's just too commonly used. And somehow, I'm gonna enjoy it too!
Windows 7, Service pak 1, processor: 4 cpu/3.40 GHz 3.39 GHz. 4.00 GB ram, 32 bit. External Hardrive: Toshiba Canvio usb 3.0 + 2.0/1.0 TB. Focusrite 2i4 audio interface. Alesis QX49 Midi keyboard Controller
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/24 22:04:51
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Well you may consider a completely clean install of whatever OS you want to run. There have been 48 posts in this thread so far I'm not sure there is much to add other than check the windows event viewer maybe.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/24 22:04:51
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Dupe
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/24 22:13:03
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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ampfixer
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/24 22:20:31
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If the midi keyboard is a usb connection, make sure to try several ports and see if the problem persists.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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dwardzala
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Re:Midi latency in Sonar
2015/08/25 11:40:35
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Yes, make sure you using a USB 2 port and not a USB 3 port for that keyboard. If you are using a different port than the one you originally installed on, you might want to uninstall your driver and reinstall. I assume that the keyboard has an external power supply, but if it doesn't and you can get one for it you might try that, too.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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