Midi latency in Sonar

Neil - you'll want to google 'Sonar midi buffer' or similar.  Don't use the search on this forum as it doesn't work.

Also, edit your user profile and complete your sig to include all the info about your system.  There's a 94.66321% chance that will help identify the issue.

Oh, and welcome to the forum...  but don't expect it to be serious all the time

Thanks guys for the quick replies but another factor has entered the problem; so far I haven't tried to record any audio so I don't know if the latency will affect that too.
My thoughts at the moment are that sinceI don't actually need to bring any audio into Sonar except from my computer then an interface is perhaps not necessary and I could instead use a usb controller keyboard which shouldn't have any latency issues.
Thanks again for your kind help, and once I'm set up Wood, I'll fill in my profile.

Best Wishes

Neil 

My thoughts at the moment are that sinceI don't actually need to bring any audio into Sonar except from my computer then an interface is perhaps not necessary and I could instead use a usb controller keyboard which shouldn't have any latency issues. 

Just do what we suggested and youll fix your latency issue. It doesn't matter if your triggering MIDI or recording audio. We read your post and we know your using MIDI. You need to lower your ASIO or WDM driver settings. Its non negotiable.


CJ

I'd agree ref the input quantize. I'd start by turning that off before I even started to investigate other causes. Depending on your settings you wouldn't have to be far out to have notes moved.

If you do use input quantize though pressing ctrl+Z after recording will return you to the "as played" version. Input quantize is actually a two stage process that happens automatically - the recording followed by quantize. Pressing Ctl+Z or selecting Edit-->Undo simpy reverses the quantize process and leaves you with the original recording.

Wow guys, thanks for all the replies but as always the answer was so simple, it was the version of LE. I installed Sonar X2 Studio this morning and it works fine, the midi note lands right on beat one!
I anticipate being on the forum quite a bit in the next few weeks as I tackle the hidden depths of Sonar and your wonderful response bodes well for a happy relationship. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply, I do really appreciate your input.

Neil

dont play with input quantisation (personally i think its a weird feature because it is totally unnatural to play with it) since you can anyway quantize it later to your need with two clicks...

Just for reference, Input Quantize doesn't actually do anything while recording; it just automatically applies quantizing after you hit stop. It won't affect the live performance timing at all.


Think about it: There's no way it could automatically move something earlier that you played late to put it on the beat in real time (unless maybe you're playing on a train moving at very near the speed of light ). At best all it could do would be to delay stuff you played early, which would definitely be weird, and probably very unhelpful. 

 I have Sonar X3 Producer. I'm having some latecy, or delayed response while trying to record, with my Alesis QX49 Midi keyboard controller. It seems that when I open a soft synth, and play it by itself, it plays fine! But when hit the record button and try to record with the playback of the other tracks, thats when the problem starts. The keys have a delayed response, or sluggish, or some of them will cut out, or not sound at all! I've adjusted my buffer several times, but to no avail. I'm using the WDM drivers, on a windows 7 computer, 32 bit. I've just recently updated all my computer drivers, and up to date with my Sonar X3 Producer software. I also have a Focusrite 2i4 Interface. My keyboard is usb and plugs right into my computer. I'm not sure if its a latecy issue or timing. (But I do know the timing is off!) Or is it a way to record Midi with external instruments, (guitars, basses etc...), or with audio tracks that I'm overlooking? I've got the feeling there are some "settings" that I have that are incorrect and or are not compatible to what I'm trying to do. Would appreciate any help I can get! 

I am curious - why are you using the WDM drivers for your interface, rather than ASIO?
 
I checked the web site for the interface, and indeed there are ASIO drivers available for it.  I generally attempt to install and use ASIO drivers first, for any audio interface I am using, however some folks do have better results when using WDM.  It is usually wise to try the ASIO driver mode, if issues with WDM, and also to try WDM driver mode if issues with ASIO.  One or the other should result in good performance and stability.
 
When you go into Preferences, you may need to remove the check box for the audio interface, in order for you to be able to select the ASIO driver mode.
 
The ASIO driver mode also will use a parameter that you need to set, for adjusting the size of a buffer for the interface to process the signal.  It is usually called ASIO Buffer Size, or sometimes the interface will control that buffer with a slider, or will have you pick from a number of samples - different manufacturers use different methods of controlling the size of the ASIO Buffer.
 
I mention this because for the rest of time you will need to switch the size of that ASIO Buffer, depending on what kind of processing you are doing in Sonar.  When tracking/recording, you need the ASIO Buffer Size to be fairly small, or you will hear a lag between when you play a note and when you hear it back.  On the other side of ot, when you have finished recording and move on to mixing/mastering, you will almost always want to jack up that ASIO Buffer Size to be very large - this is to accommodate effects that often need the larger buffer size for the type of processing they do, like convoluted reverbs and effects that use look-ahead processing.
 
SOOOOO - I generally use a sample rate of 48 k, and an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 for recording, and then when I move to mixing/mastering, I jack up the ASIO Buffer Size to 1024 or 2048.  The high latency that comes from the big ASIO Buffer Size doesn't matter when mixing, because you aren't trying to record tracks while mixing.
 
So, I suggest you try the ASIO driver mode, with the above settings and report back with your results.  It may not fix things for you, but is certainly a reasonable place to start.
 
Bob Bone
 

And yet with all that detail, you fail to mention the only other source of audio latency other than plug-ins. In this case the mixing latency buffer size slider setting. It might be possible to run the interface with a low enough setting using the WDM driver but from what I can tell most use ASIO with Focusrite hardware. If you are unable to get a sufficiently small buffer size using WDM, you will need to work with Focusrite support to figure out why the PC is refusing the use the preferred driver option.
 
The MIDI playback buffer might be too small at the default setting of 250. This does not affect latency but can cause dropped MIDI notes. Increasing the value to 500 or higher will prevent dropped notes but again will do nothing to affect the audio latency you have described.

Hi. Have you checked that you have (and installed) the latest asio drivers for your Quad Capture?
As others suggested, I think ASIO would be the best drivers for your Audio Interface.
You will probably need separate drivers for your MIDI controller.
And including your specs in your profile will help people analyzing your problem(s).
Best of luck.

Agree with CJ.  I go to Preferences | Drivers | ASIO buffer and set the slider to a low number (like 3) while tracking/recording to reduce latency. Then when mixing the final product, I move it back up to 6 or 7 to ensure there are no clicks or drop-outs.  In the very near future, improved computing power and speed will eliminate this two-step process, but for now, I have found this to be a good method.
 
Also,the MIDI buffer, as said above, may be something else to check.  The problem could be either or both, but having the ASIO buffer too high during recording is a sure fire way to have lag.  Just don't forget to put it back.
 
I will say that, although I have noticeable latency problems with the wrong settings, an 1/8 note at 120 BPM is a LOT; however, it could be mechanical *and* human: it is hard to play in time when you don't hear yourself right.  Some singers and musicians rush badly when latency is too high, but the reverse could be true as well.

Computer specs would be things that are shown in my sig - processor, memory, HDs, other hardware etc.
 
Yes you should get your ASIO driver from Focusrite.  And sorry to conflict with some other advice regarding ASIO4ALL but, you should disable that driver - it is a workaround for interfaces that don't have real ASIO drivers.  Your device does so you don't need it.  In fact, it can cause you problems by interfering with real ASIO drivers.
 
Regarding some of you other questions - running transport for the first time = pressing play or record to start the audio engine (the part of the software that "plays" your tracks) the first time after you load a particular project.
 
When you are recording "raw" do you have effects on your other tracks?
 
The people on this forum have a collective of centuries of experience with Sonar and solving these problems.  As long as you are willing to continue the dialog with us, we will figure out how to solve your problem so that you are recording and mixing using Sonar.

Thanks guys. Believe it or not, but I got the Asio4all v2 to work for the first time yesterday evening after my post to this forum. I just kept playing around with the settings and it worked! But I am experiencing some "audio dropouts." And I didn't know that the "asio4all v2" driver is not real asio driver. And since I've already downloaded the focusrite drivers when I purchased the unit, then I already have a focusrite asio driver Right? I just need to uninstall the asio4all v2?

WDM is Microsofts "generic" audio driver model and is relatively high level.  It's good for steaming audio from youtube to your soundcard or game playing or other similar situations where latency down to a few miliseconds is not required.
 
ASIO is a low level driver that effectively allows software to talk directly to your sound card, bypassing most of your OS. It will allow guaranteed low latency based on the buffer size you specify.
 
ASIO4ALL is a "wrapper" that makes WDM appear to be ASIO to software that expects (or requires) ASIO.
 
Remove ASIO4ALL,  check the Focusrite  site for the latest drivers for your interface. Install the ASIO driver (or if it's one driver, make sure it's using ASIO mode)
In windows sound settings, ensure your interface is NOT set as the default option for audio.  Let windows use the built in sound on your motherboard for everything else and keep your Focusrite just for Sonar and other dedicated audio software.