eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/07 13:02:56
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Is he really defending young people? :D I mean they're attractive in many ways...but aren't old people supposed to diss the young? He's gotta be in his thirties because anyone over 40 should have nothing good to say. :D:D
post edited by eph221 - 2016/03/07 13:55:46
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Beepster
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/07 13:54:14
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Meh... I think it's the same old story. Young people have always been flaky buggers when they first leave the nest. Heck knows most of us were (especially being the musical types). It takes some time in the real world to really "get it". Of course there are certain generations in western society that got carted off to war quite young and then there are those from rural areas who had to get up a tend to the farm or starve. General crap like that that instilled work ethics and discipline younger than others. For those coming from certain areas of the globe... well there's that real do or die (or at least go hungry) action instilled, again, at a young age. I have a certain amount of faith in the current crop of sproutlings despite their faults (mostly bred and taught into them by us older farts). They seem like they're generally bright enough but just need a dose of reality like all of us did at some point to get their heads in the game. A good employer can do that (but of course you aren't a guidance counsellor... you're a businessman). As I said upthread. I have to have faith in them otherwise we're all boned. And again... let's think back to the young people of the 60's, 70's, 80's and (in my case) 90's. The young people were generally just as flighty, vapid and self absorbed. That of course doesn't mean you need to hire them. Just saying they're still confused, goofy little pups figuring the world out. They may turn out alright. They could of course also turn out to be a total nightmare. Only time will tell. Cheers.
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mmorgan
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/07 22:34:55
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At my retirement party there was a younger fellow who said: "Do you remember what you said to me when I first got assigned to your team?" Me: "Remember...? Uh refresh please." Him: "You said: there are two ways we can work this: The wrong way and my way. I'm going to stipulate my way. Can you live with that?" Me (chuckling): "Well I don't really recall that but it sure sounds like me. How'd that all work out anyway?" Him: "In the end really good." I thought that was a pretty good send off...
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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yorolpal
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/07 23:27:19
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@Beepster...not to rain on your parade but sociologists have a very different take. They see very different patterns in generational behavior due to many factors, not the least of which is the environment that said generation grows up in... i.e. Technological advances, current cultural norms, etc...or the parenting they receive from their previous generation...generally rebelling against or at the very least modifying the methods of their own parents. While "kids will be kids" may be a generic truism...every succeeding generation shows definite strains of "uniqueness" that makes them particularly identifiable.
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Moshkito
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/08 09:28:55
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Hi, Weird that some folks think that everyone is useless at 60, and stupid! I might not drive as fast as some folks in NY and SF ... but ... there are many other things I can run circles around others ... computers for one, and data entry!
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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slartabartfast
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/08 21:17:57
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Keep in mind, sharke, that you are hiring dog walkers. While you and your clients may believe that it is a demanding and responsible job, many people who are looking for work in your field probably are not so impressed. If you were hiring investment bankers or corporate lawyers, you would probably find a much more nuanced understanding of the need to spell check applications and take care to come across as an adult in an interview, even among young people. I was a pretty feckless young man, in and out of menial jobs at a whim, working just enough to manage a hippy lifestyle. Maybe we are expecting too much of young people seeking marginal jobs. I was frankly flabbergasted when I saw a sign outside a JiffyLube saying that they were hiring and inviting prospective employees to submit a curriculum vitae. A CV from a guy who is going to change oil all day? No one ever asked me for a CV, or even a high school diploma for my first dozen jobs. And the people I worked with in those days (mostly older than I) had a really lousy work ethic. Essentially the old "we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us," menatlity. These were ofen the guys in my father's (the greatest) generation. You are probably too young to become a really successful curmudgeon, but you are on the right track. In my day, it required at least a few years of social security before we could confidently put down a whole generation. That and the years of walking ten miles each way to school uphill in both directions in a blinding snowstorm every day.
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/08 21:37:33
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slartabartfast Keep in mind, sharke, that you are hiring dog walkers. While you and your clients may believe that it is a demanding and responsible job, many people who are looking for work in your field probably are not so impressed. If you were hiring investment bankers or corporate lawyers, you would probably find a much more nuanced understanding of the need to spell check applications and take care to come across as an adult in an interview, even among young people. I was a pretty feckless young man, in and out of menial jobs at a whim, working just enough to manage a hippy lifestyle. Maybe we are expecting too much of young people seeking marginal jobs. I was frankly flabbergasted when I saw a sign outside a JiffyLube saying that they were hiring and inviting prospective employees to submit a curriculum vitae. A CV from a guy who is going to change oil all day? No one ever asked me for a CV, or even a high school diploma for my first dozen jobs. And the people I worked with in those days (mostly older than I) had a really lousy work ethic. Essentially the old "we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us," menatlity. These were ofen the guys in my father's (the greatest) generation. You are probably too young to become a really successful curmudgeon, but you are on the right track. In my day, it required at least a few years of social security before we could confidently put down a whole generation. That and the years of walking ten miles each way to school uphill in both directions in a blinding snowstorm every day.
Keep in mind that I'm describing a change in work ethic. My requirements haven't changed over the last 10 years and it used to be much easier to find good employees. I've always asked to see an employment history. I don't, however, require formal qualifications and never have. I'm not just making this up and I don't have unreasonable expectations from employees. In fact as an employer I'm pretty easy going - I just require the basics of honesty, reliability, communication skills etc. It's certainly not just me - employers all over the country are reporting the same thing. My girlfriend's parents have a big store and are experiencing exactly the same thing, it's become harder and harder to find good employees.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/08 22:14:42
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I used to say *when burger flippers want $14 per hour to flip burgers, then you know inflation is about to take off.* Wage inflation is around the corner I'm afraid. And that will start the process, onwards and upwards. I imagine we'll be getting 16% for Tbills before long! :D But the reason I mention this is that, perhaps the reason it's getting harder to find decent workers is symptom of full employment (5% unemployment and lower). Maybe not.
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/08 22:35:47
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Burger flipping will be fully automated before burger flippers get $14/hr. Who knows, maybe I'll come up with a legion of dog walking robots.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 00:19:03
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$15 per hour right now in Seattle for flipping burgers. Portland's catching up. I work in the real estate industry and it's insane. Only difference between now and 2008 is that the fed just spent the last 5 years printing and disseminating trillions of dollars. Wages will catch up eventually, I hope. People are actually going homeless because they simply can't afford the rent increases. Sound familiar?
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yorolpal
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 00:58:43
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According to The Dept. of Labor, The Pew Reasearch Center and many others raising the minimum wage does NOT increase inflation in any meaningful way. You can ask Uncle Google. Unless, of course, Fox News is allowing how the cow ate the cabbage.
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 01:01:18
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Consumers pay every cent of the employees wages. They're paid for with revenue, not profit. So however much wages increase, we'll all pay for those increases in the form of higher prices. When everything expands, nothing does.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 01:09:32
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If you re-read what I wrote, you couldn't possibly come to the conclusion that I implied minimum wage contributes to inflation. Nevertheless, competition for workers (in short supply) and the quantity of money in the system are what are going to contribute to it. In fact, while what you said is true..that the minimum wage may or may not contribute to inflation, wage inflation caused by lack of workers and the workers future expectations of inflation are what create system-wide overheating. I don't watch Fox, but whether you like Friedman or Keynes both sides have their uses politically. I wouldn't dismiss one or the other outright.
post edited by eph221 - 2016/03/09 13:24:04
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 01:13:33
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All minimum wage levels do is either price out of the job market everyone whose skills are worth less than the minimum rate, or lead to price increases to pay for it all. If wage increases were funded by profits then I'm sure we could all feel smug in the knowledge that the greedy business owners were getting their just desserts, but that's not where wages come from. Anyway, Seattle lost a ton of jobs in the restaurant industry when they hiked up the minimum wage.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Leadfoot
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 08:04:11
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sharke All minimum wage levels do is either price out of the job market everyone whose skills are worth less than the minimum rate, or lead to price increases to pay for it all. If wage increases were funded by profits then I'm sure we could all feel smug in the knowledge that the greedy business owners were getting their just desserts, but that's not where wages come from. Anyway, Seattle lost a ton of jobs in the restaurant industry when they hiked up the minimum wage.
+1. Well said, Sharke.
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dmbaer
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 17:58:01
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So you, like, don't want to, like, hire millennials? Like, why is that? Can they, like, be, like, that bad?
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bayoubill
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 18:43:49
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I graduated high school without the existence of Google OR Wikipedia!
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 19:18:05
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dmbaer So you, like, don't want to, like, hire millennials? Like, why is that? Can they, like, be, like, that bad?
Like OMG!
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 19:18:25
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bayoubill I graduated high school without the existence of Google OR Wikipedia!
Me too! Oh wait, I didn't graduate anything
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 22:23:25
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I'm a quasi-libertarian pseudo intellectual and a false prophet. At least I can teach music.
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craigb
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 22:33:08
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slartabartfast I was frankly flabbergasted when I saw a sign outside a JiffyLube saying that they were hiring and inviting prospective employees to submit a curriculum vitae. A CV from a guy who is going to change oil all day? No one ever asked me for a CV, or even a high school diploma for my first dozen jobs.
7/11 and service stations that need doofuses to sit and take money for people getting gas are both requesting resumes now (the American equivalent to a CV). Go figure!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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yorolpal
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/09 23:25:23
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Again, I would heartily encourage anyone who thinks that raising the minimum wage is (or has ever been) overtly inflationary to simply do the due diligence to actually look for and provide the evidence. It simply is not there. While it may cause some temporary upward price pressure on certain businesses in the short term (again...the operative word here is "may") in the long term its effects are almost always minor and not inflationary.
I honestly couldn't care less from an argumentative standpoint whether it does or doesn't. I'm just relating what I found without much trouble from multiple unbiased sources. Sorry.
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/10 01:36:09
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I don't see how wage increases can't cause either some increase in prices and/or other negative effects.Let's imagine a hypothetical situation of a business which pays its workers $10/hr. Let's also say that of the revenue they take from the sale of their product, 50% pays the wages, 10% is taken as profit and the rest is spent on the other costs of doing business. Let's now imagine they are forced to increase their hourly rate to $15/hr, an increase of 50% in their payroll (not including things like payroll taxes). Well that sort of increase is not going to be covered by profits is it? Even the company takes a 50% cut in profits, it's still not going to cover it. And remember that some of those profits are reinvested, which means that taking it out of profits would mean less reinvestment in the company and fewer jobs created in future. So where does the money come from? Well I guess they could either increase their prices to create more revenue to play with (although a price increase may deter come customers from purchasing), or they could lay workers off and make the remaining employees work harder, or they could cut costs in other areas. That last possibility is interesting - it could entail either cutting corners in the manufacture of their product (e.g. inferior materials) or spending less on advertising or whatever. There is then the possibility that the businesses which supply them with materials or do their advertising will take a hit. I think the trouble with the way most people think about economics is that they tend to focus on a limited range of short term, immediate effects. A thorough understanding of economic policy should include both short term and long term effects, as well as a consideration of how those effects propagate through the whole economy, not just the immediate recipients of the policy. Politicians rarely care about the long term effects - their sphere of concern pretty much ends at the point of the next election. And very few people think about the "what might have been" effect of economic policy, because that involves things they can't see. For instance, if you forcibly redistribute money from one place to another (e.g. in the form of minimum wage increases) then you have to think about what that money would have otherwise been spent on and whether those "other things" would have been more beneficial to the economy. When you divert money from capital spending to consumer spending, for example, you're potentially decreasing the potential for economic growth. And ultimately you're making less money available to produce goods and services, while putting more dollars in the hands of consumers. More dollars chasing fewer goods! In other words, an increase in prices (economics 101). I know if I were forced to increase the % of revenue that I pay out in wages, I would be left with no choice but to increase prices. You could throw as many "unbiased studies" at me as you like, it wouldn't change that reality.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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craigb
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/10 03:17:34
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Actually, there's far more negative impacts if the minimum wage is increased to $15/hour. Although what Sharke has pointed out above is the initial issue, many small business owners currently are not making 10% profit and this move will undoubtedly sink their businesses. Others will have to let people go and/or dramatically raise the prices on their products to cover the increase. $8 Big Macs anyone? But, here's the bigger ripple effect that is not being seen yet: Joe currently makes 20% more than the minimum wage because [insert any reason here, seniority, tougher job, supervisory position, etc.] when, suddenly, John, a new-hire with no experience, is now making a lot more (Oregon and Washington already have some of the highest minimum wages at $9.75 and $9.47 - the highest is in D.C. at $11.50/hour while most are at $7.25). For the Pacific Northwest, current minimum wage earners would immediately get more than a 50% raise (without doing anything more or better). Obviously, at the very least, everyone who used to be making more than the minimum, but less than $15/hour will also have to be bumped up to the new minimum, however every one those people will now be screaming for an increase from there relative to where they were before (and why shouldn't they?). Needless to say, now some of those employees will now be making more than those in tougher positions or even their own managers so now THAT class of employee will demand a raise as well. And up the chain it goes. It's only a very naive socialist view that the "extra" profits from so-called greedy business owners will now be spread out all the way to the lowest paid employee. The reality is that the truly greedy ones will never distribute what they consider to be "their" profits and will simply raise their prices to cover the new expenses (maybe my guess was low, $11 Big Macs anyone?). More and more businesses are already cutting employee hours so they don't need to provide benefits and this will only get worse. Ok, so the minimum wagers now make a LOT more (which, frankly, they don't deserve - read Sharke's other topic to see what the typical low-level employee will provide for that money), but they will now have to cover things they might not have had to before like medical, dental, any days off (which are now without pay), etc. Anyone who thinks now that these lowest wage earners will now have more money to spend to make their lives better will find that they really don't after everything that they have to buy now costs more. What about retirees? They've already made whatever they could in hopes it would last for the rest of their lives. Huge increases in the cost of living may mean they run out of money long before it's their time to pass. There's (at least) one more impact as well. Anyone NOT working who's been barely scraping by will now be truly screwed since anything they've been making is not affected by the minimum wage increase so they now have far less money relative to what they need to get. Even those getting some form of government assistance will feel this since you can bet that all of them won't be getting a 50% increase in their benefits!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/10 03:50:04
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Well, maybe the confusion is between micro effects and macro effects. I think what yerolpal was saying is that it doesn't necessarily contribute to the nationwide inflation rate. The CPI doesn't include volatile prices which is sort of bogus anyways; those *volatile* prices like gas and food can stay at high or low levels for a long time. We live in a mixed economy...there's elements of socialism as well as free enterprise. The argument for or against utopian, pure systems is moot really.
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craigb
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/10 03:53:39
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eph221 But the reason I mention this is that, perhaps the reason it's getting harder to find decent workers is symptom of full employment (5% unemployment and lower).
Full employment??!? I don't know (haven't looked yet) where these ridiculous unemployment numbers come from, but I can only guess it's based on the number of people getting unemployment benefits. The actual unemployment percentage (those that could be working but are not) is MUCH higher (over 40% is my guess). The 5% joke of a number doesn't include ANY of the people (like myself) who didn't qualify for unemployment, anyone who has given up on finding work, or all of those whose unemployment benefits have already run out. Heck, I just read that if you mow someones lawn and made $20 during a week that you're also not considered unemployed! So exclude anyone working part time too. Check this out: Gallup defines a good job as 30+ hours per week for an organization that provides a regular paycheck. Right now, the U.S. is delivering at a staggeringly low rate of 44%, which is the number of full-time jobs as a percent of the adult population, 18 years and older.
That 5% number seems to indicate only one person out of 20 is unemployed. So how many people do YOU know of? Personally, I know of a lot and many of us used to have really decent jobs. Several of my friends (an IT Director, a partner at Accenture, a programming manager, some programmers, etc.) were wiped out financially during the same time I was (2008-9). I know because we all contacted each other trying to find work. Of my immediate friends (including my roommate), it's about one in three. The fact that about half of the population (It was at 49.2% in 2011 and rising) gets some form of government benefits should be a big clue that something is seriously messed up!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/10 03:55:31
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Craig, you sound bitter. That's good for a poet. :D The unemployment rate is based on two statistics: the CPS and the number of those collecting unemployment benefits.
post edited by eph221 - 2016/03/10 04:16:42
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craigb
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/10 04:04:40
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Pedro's the poet. I'm a lyricist, there's a difference! (And, yes, I AM bitter! I've been trying to get work just to pay basic bills since June. I'm considered too old at 52 or over-qualified for any low-level position and, apparently, I don't have enough "current experience" to get back into the IT world - even though I managed to run my own IT Consulting business for several years. That's stopping due to a lack of new clients and a few mainstays that can't afford things right now.)
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/10 04:10:57
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I wrote the music to a song today called *the sound of truth*. Does that stir any lyrical ideas?
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craigb
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/10 04:28:05
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It reminds me of that video someone posted that demonstrates "truth" as a very individual point of view.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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