sharke
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Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
I am at the end of my friggin tether with this generation. Huge rant alert!
First of all let me say that I am aware there are exceptions to this trend and yes, you may well know a young person of the Millennial generation who is totally unlike the people I'm describing, perhaps one of them is yours. I get it. My girlfriend falls in this generation and she is a notable exception. But I cannot ignore the huge increase in flaky behavior and the humongous decline in work ethic that I've seen in young people as an employer of 10 years. It's getting to the point now where I'm actively seeking employees over the age of 35.
You would not believe some of the crap I have to put up with. Employees who think that work hours are a "suggestion." Employees who have taken the day off without even asking in advance. Employees who are literally shocked to their foundations when I point out that this sort of thing is not acceptable, and almost burst into tears and say "why are you yelling at me" when I haven't so much as raised my voice. Employees who cannot understand basic instructions and despite being college graduates, have trouble reading and writing.
And then there's the job applicants. I recently had a job opening come up, and it's a cool little position, part time hours, decent pay. I get barely literate emails written in texting language. I get resumes with employment histories which show that they are like "job butterflies" - they flit from job to job, taking a brief sip at each before getting bored and trying something new. I once asked an applicant about her erratic job history and she tried to spin it by saying that it shows "diversity." She was genuinely baffled when I pointed out that to an employer, it shows not being able to stick anything out.
So yesterday I had someone contact me for the job and she seemed very interested and enthusiastic. Liked the pay, liked the hours, said she had relevant experience etc. I arranged to meet her at 6pm tonight for an interview, and as I'm waiting at our designated meeting place at 6pm I have this pessimistic feeling that it's going to be another Millennial flake and she won't show up. To put my mind at rest, I gave her a call and a bubbly young voice answered.
"Oh you know what? Something came up that I have to deal with and I can't make it tonight, can we reschedule?"
I am totally frigging done with these kids let me tell you.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Beepster
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 18:46:58
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Why not go further and go 50+? That gen have gotten wicked burned and tossed from their jobs before retirement and are undesirable elsewhere because... well who knows why? Responsible, workready, motivated and likely to not only have more animal experience but many might even consider it a nice dream "pre-retirement" gig... or at least a good interim gig. I have faith in the youngsters myself (otherwise we're all boned) but this gig SCREAMS oldster crowd. They have the discipline to do it and many of them certainly could use the break. Freaking crime what's happening to that gen. Told if you work hard all your life you'll be rewarded only to get the carpet pulled out from under you? Shameful.
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:16:24
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I totally hear you about the 50+ age group Beepster. Great work ethic, reliable, responsible, actually focused on things other than selfies and social media post likes, etc etc. I have a couple of concerns though, the main one being physical fitness. You'd be surprised how physically demanding walking dogs is - there's sometimes a lot of walking in between dogs, and lots of running up and down multiple flights of stairs with big heavy rambunctious mutts. It can put a real strain on the arms and shoulders, not to mention the legs. I just had someone quit recently because of foot problems (mind you, he did stick it out for 5 years). So they'd have to have a good clean bill of health and be in good shape. The second one is the pay - I do pay a good rate for the business (it's not a high paid job in general, mainly due to the amount of competition there is these days and the consequent market rate that I can charge for the service). So in a city with a high cost of living like NYC it's a job which mainly suits younger people who either still live at home or are "rooming" with others. Having said that, there are a lot of older folk here who are grandfathered into cheap apartments and pay an insanely low rent because of rent control. My positions are generally either part time or semi-full time, but getting paid in the region of $400-$500 a week for hours which are typically around say 10:30-3:30 (ish) isn't bad. Especially for unqualified work. It's hard to recruit from a certain age group though - I'll have to look into it. This is a highly regulated city and I'm not sure just how far I can go in terms of specifics when advertising the position before I get labeled some kind of "ist." For example - and I hate to get into ethnic or nationality specifics - most of my best employees have been South American. I've never hired anyone without papers but I have had some incredible young Columbian employees. For a while most of my employees were Columbian, mainly through hiring one and then having subsequent employees who were either friends or relatives of this one guy. Just an awesome no-nonsense work ethic, they all got on with the job without any whining or fuss and were very reliable. However they've all moved on now, either jobs with more hours or going to college. There's no way on earth I would be able to advertise a job and put "would suit Columbian" - lol! They'd haul me straight up before the judge. This Millennial lack of work ethic thing is certainly something which seems to afflict American (and I daresay European) kids more than anyone else.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:22:19
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And yes it is absolutely nuts how this 50+ age group is being passed over for jobs these days. I have no idea why that is. I read an article the other day about some young, hip Silicon Valley startup (Zenefits) which is having to crack the whip because their Millennial employees are boozing and banging each other at work. This is the kind of sh*tty "anything goes" attitude I'm talking about, they just don't see what's wrong with it. I guess the perception is that they want youthful, "with it" workers who think outside the box and all that hyped up crap. I also read that this company has been valued at $4.5 billion - what a laugh! Will probably be another of those cases where 5 years down the line someone will realize that they're not actually making any money.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Beepster
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:34:20
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Shyoze... If I were ambulatory enough to do it (and had the work permits) I'd do those wages just to be in Manhattan. lol However IF you wanted to attract the crowd I mentioned maybe advertise for "fit, semi-retired animal lovers". Quite a few 50+ in great shape out there (of course a lot of flabbo gimps too). Seems the age range these days where the health stuff was sinking in so there's a lot of "oldish" fit buggers out there. For the other demographic I'm sure you could recruit from the families of some the local shops around town (if they still exist in Manhattan). I'm just thinking of my old hoods/city. There were lots of family run stores who had a glut of family labor from the old country who'd fit the bill for such gigs. Good job, above board pay. Great stuff. Of course that's based on my experience in "NYC North". We'd do our damndest to be NYC but there ain't no place like NYC. lol Good luck, bro.
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Rain
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:38:40
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☄ Helpfulby jbow 2016/03/06 17:32:11
An inept generation of parents (my generation) couldn't raise anything but a generation like the millennials. I look at guys my age and find that we're a bunch of overgrown teenagers. Collecting toys and comic books, watching superhero movies and cartoons, wearing stupid t-shirts, spending their free time playing video games in their "man cave", eating junk and getting high. And this behaviour is of course glorified... As is stupidity. Me I say: Unfortunately, it's too late for that. I'm trying to imagine how I would have reacted as a kid if my dad behaved like a ****ed 16 year old, and tried to be "cool". I would have had no notion of what being an adult meant. Because that is one of the fundamental problem - my generation never accepted to grow up and not be "kewl", to act like adults. They weren't fit to bring up kids.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Beepster
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:40:16
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I found it went either way with the youngins. Either utter mouthbreathers or really motivated and intelligent workers (but perhaps a bit dispassionate). Sorting through them is a pain in the arse but once you strike gold all is well. Different business though and there wasn't such an need/emphasis on timing/punctuality. Kind of pushing a decade since I was actually dealing with staff issues too so I'm guessing the landscape has changed a bit as well.
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:40:25
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Thanks. I've been trying to mine some more of my Columbian strain of employees but I think it's finally run out lol....I did ask recently but the couple of names they came up with, either they didn't speak good English (I need good communication) or they didn't have papers. Not that I would ever have any moral qualms about hiring someone without papers, I just like to keep things within the law. One angle I'm trying now to try and attract an older demographic is calling animal shelters and asking if they have anyone who's been volunteering for them and is looking for paid work. This is one of those jobs where you have to really love animals, I know some people in the business will just hire anyone who's looking for casual work and there are some really shady characters out there walking dogs on the street. All it takes is for one person to shoot some footage of a dog walker mistreating a dog and that's it, you're finished. The caring, compassionate animal loving personality is where it's at. Of course sometimes you have to deal with the a-holes who use the job to build up their own sneaky client base and then screw you over. Been there before.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Beepster
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:42:55
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Rain ...
Yeah... most of us are kind of sh*tbirds. I always found that disappointing but some of us worked our bags off. Some perhaps too much to make up for the others. Which is why I hurt... and spend far too much time here.
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:43:43
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Rain An inept generation of parents (my generation) couldn't raise anything but a generation like the millennials. I look at guys my age and find that we're a bunch of overgrown teenagers. Collecting toys and comic books, watching superhero movies and cartoons, wearing stupid t-shirts, spending their free time playing video games in their "man cave", eating junk and getting high. And this behaviour is of course glorified... As is stupidity. Me I say:
 Unfortunately, it's too late for that. I'm trying to imagine how I would have reacted as a kid if my dad behaved like a ****ed 16 year old, and tried to be "cool". I would have had no notion of what being an adult meant. Because that is one of the fundamental problem - my generation never accepted to grow up and not be "kewl", to act like adults. They weren't fit to bring up kids.
We partied pretty hard in our 20's and I have friends now who seem to be doing a great job of raising their kids, but still it is true that generations from X onward seem to have trouble growing up. They seem to be unable to see themselves as "proper" adults. I have to admit, I have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that I'm 42 and comparing myself to my dad at that age. He just seemed like way more of a "bloke" than me. I think I've grown out of the cartoons and comic books though, so at least there's that. I don't even watch the Simpsons any more (although to be fair, it stopped being funny around 1998 or so).
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Beepster
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:46:35
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@sharke... I'm sure you read the news about that woman in BC who got charged with cruelty over the death canines in her charge. Just flaked, dogs dead, tried to cover it up, got busted. Haaaaatin' her! Good on you for running a clean shop.
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:52:59
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Oh I have horror stories galore....some people should never be allowed anywhere near an animal, let alone be permitted to care for them. There was a team of trainers in Manhattan a few years ago who would be seen brutalizing the dogs in their care on the street. Got great results of course....but only because they terrified their dogs into this zombie like submission. It's not just the employee I have to worry about, it's the clients as well. They worry about us coming into their apartment and want to see credentials when really, I should be vetting them as well. One of our clients a few years ago turned out to be a paranoid psycho who went out and shot three people dead before going down in a hail of police gunfire. And I was going into that dude's apartment every day and trying to strike up friendly conversations with him...lol
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 19:53:14
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I mentioned to batsbrew how their attention span is very short, he didn't know what I was saying. SO short in fact that a 4 minute song without end to end shininess might not pass muster. He didn't no what I was saying. :D
post edited by eph221 - 2016/03/04 23:28:43
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TerraSin
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 20:28:28
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Back when I did stage production a few years ago, I had a then Penn State University Senior student working with me one day. We were putting together some truss and this guy turns to me and he asks, "which way do I turn this (nut and bolt) to tighten it?" I thought surely he must be joking so I didn't even acknowledge it. He just sat there waiting for my response. I looked up at him and go "Really? You've got two choices. It's a 50/50 shot... wait, did you really just ask me that?" The kicker, this guy was graduating with a degree in engineering. I wanted to run out of the building screaming.
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 20:55:22
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TerraSin Back when I did stage production a few years ago, I had a then Penn State University Senior student working with me one day. We were putting together some truss and this guy turns to me and he asks, "which way do I turn this (nut and bolt) to tighten it?" I thought surely he must be joking so I didn't even acknowledge it. He just sat there waiting for my response. I looked up at him and go "Really? You've got two choices. It's a 50/50 shot... wait, did you really just ask me that?" The kicker, this guy was graduating with a degree in engineering. I wanted to run out of the building screaming.
I have clients who work in corporate jobs, often in charge of accounts worth millions of dollars and earning 6 figures themselves, who cannot figure out an invoice that I send them. With everything clearly itemized and a subtotal + sales tax + grand total at the bottom. They call me and say I don't understand this. What's this amount? What's this line? How much do I pay? It really is just a basic invoice with nothing ambiguous or confusing in it. Even when I explain, they still don't get it. I just can't work out how they get these jobs.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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tenfoot
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 22:08:51
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What a great business Sharke! I Live on the edge of a forest half a world away, but my daily hike with my two border collies is a highlight. Dogs rock:) I was chatting with someone in software development yesterday who explained to me that they now have to develop their products so that they can be used straight out if the box, no instruction necessary one button approach, to have any hope of attracting the younger user base solely due to their short attention span. Truly disturbing. I just qualify for Beepsters 50+ crew. Despite the odds, most of the people from my youth seem to have managed to become some semblance of grownup. We too partied hard in our youth and survived the ordeal. I wonder whether part of the problem now isn't societies over regulation of youth. The current lockout and anti drinking laws in Australia are absurd. In Sydney, whole nightclub districts have shut down. Young people must feel frustration at this imposition of new rules by old people who have already had their fling. It has also all but destroyed the live music scene - I would hate to be starting my career now. I guess every generation has waxed lyrical about the good old days and the demise of youngsters. Here's hoping we are not the last:)
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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einstein36
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 22:18:36
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I totally agree.....I'm a 40ish something guy and come from the generation of do the job the right way and do it right the first time(basically strong work ethics)....man, where I currently work, they don't want my input to make the jobs done the correct way so things get done half ass and then they come back to me and ask me why is it not working like it's suppose to, even though I did mention up front what it would take to do the job the right way, but they did not listen to me and expect me to fix their **** half ass way to fix it.... I have finally thrown my hands up in the air and have said **** it, I'm done with this generation and their lazy ass ways..... If they want **** not working right then let them fix it. I'm done.... *drops mic and walks off stage* LOL :)
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craigb
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 22:31:55
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sharke ...First of all let me say that I am aware there are exceptions to this trend and yes, you may well know a young person of the Millennial generation who is totally unlike the people I'm describing, perhaps one of them is yours. I get it. My girlfriend falls in this generation and she is a notable exception. ...
Your girlfriend's 16 or less? Sharke, Sharke, Sharke... Shame on you!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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craigb
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 22:32:52
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Beepster Why not go further and go 50+? That gen have gotten wicked burned and tossed from their jobs before retirement and are undesirable elsewhere because... well who knows why?
I soooo resemble that statement...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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bitman
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 22:42:46
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And that's not all. They don't pursue proficiency at music. Bad for GC, Cakewalk, Our church band. They don't go outside and play. This has the NFL nervous. (Play 60) The useful are old and use computers with keyboards. Giddy Up!
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eph221
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/04 23:24:40
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sharke
TerraSin Back when I did stage production a few years ago, I had a then Penn State University Senior student working with me one day. We were putting together some truss and this guy turns to me and he asks, "which way do I turn this (nut and bolt) to tighten it?" I thought surely he must be joking so I didn't even acknowledge it. He just sat there waiting for my response. I looked up at him and go "Really? You've got two choices. It's a 50/50 shot... wait, did you really just ask me that?" The kicker, this guy was graduating with a degree in engineering. I wanted to run out of the building screaming.
I have clients who work in corporate jobs, often in charge of accounts worth millions of dollars and earning 6 figures themselves, who cannot figure out an invoice that I send them. With everything clearly itemized and a subtotal + sales tax + grand total at the bottom. They call me and say I don't understand this. What's this amount? What's this line? How much do I pay? It really is just a basic invoice with nothing ambiguous or confusing in it. Even when I explain, they still don't get it. I just can't work out how they get these jobs.
It's the curse of *specialization* in academia. The general knowledge found in Plato's quadrivium (or liberal arts) is thought to be a waste of money and time. We're raising a generation of one hit wonders, they can't think for themselves. It's true that liberal arts majors aren't always hired for various jobs, but those at the top of the companies usually do have some type of a generalized education. I'm not talking about STEM educations, those have always been somewhat specialized. My tombstone is going to read *stay curious*.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/05 02:01:44
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+1 to over '50's, or employ Eastern Europeans if you can find any out of work. There are quite a number of them in the small town here (Poles, Magyars, Slovakians, and Bulgarians), and they put the local 'workforce' to shame.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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sharke
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/05 09:10:18
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It's amazing how bad these kids are at selling themselves to an employer. When I was at school we had lessons in interview technique, job application technique etc. Kids today have no idea how to give off the right signals. As an example, when I was emailing back and forth this flake that didn't show up last night, I mentioned the neighborhood that she'd be working in, the Upper East Side.
She replied back "well obviously that's not ideal since I'm coming from Brooklyn, but I suppose I can take the L and change to the 6."
By what standard of common sense would you start expressing negative vibes (of any kind) about the job to your prospective employer before you've even started? Every cell in my brain would, as a matter of instinct, compel me to say something like "oh that's no problem, I can easily get there on the L and the 6" if It were me applying. I really don't think these kids understand what a job actually is and what their status as an employee is. I really think they see businesses as "just there" to provide them with something to do.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Moshkito
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/05 10:26:28
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Hi, At 65, I'm not sure that even looking for a part time job ... is possible. I can see many employers ... "over qualified" ... and that means 65. "under qualified" ... teenager! "idiot" 35 year old that can only do dishes in a restaurant to support their child. Of course, we could look at employers, but we won't do that here!
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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auto_da_fe
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/05 10:35:50
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HP DV6T - 2670QM, 8 GB RAM, Sonar Platypus, Octa Capture, BFD2 & Jamstix3, Komplete 10 and Komplete Kontrol Win 10 64 SLS PS8R Monitors and KRK Ergo https://soundcloud.com/airportface
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bitflipper
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/05 13:13:39
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RE: South Americans. Working late at my old employer, on the way out I had a conversation with the graveyard-shift security guard at the front desk. He was from Colombia, where he'd been a bank president. Now he sits at a desk all night, asking for badges. What he said to me that night has stuck with me ever since (this was some 35 years ago). He said that before emigrating to the U.S. he'd been warned that because of his ethnicity he'd have to work twice as hard as an American to succeed - but the good news is that's really not very hard.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bitflipper
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/05 13:23:50
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RE: Millenials I try to be a mentor to my 14-year-old grandson. He has enormous potential, gets good grades and wants to be an engineer (a real one, not the knob-twisters who call themselves engineers). He's polite and intelligent, doesn't get into trouble, a model student. The problem is that he has the attention span of a gnat. I blame it on 24x7 entertainment. Even television is too great a commitment for him; he rarely sits through an entire movie (unless I've paid for it, in which case I feel entitled to insist on it). YouTube's 10-minute standard seems to be about his limit, and even then he often clicks on something else before it'd done. He's got a smartphone, a tablet and a laptop and one of them is fired up at all times. Extended conversations are nearly impossible, except on camping trips and only after he's gone through no-signal withdrawal. I've tried to explain to him that lack of focus is going to be his greatest hurdle in pursuing a technical career. That he's going to have to read some pretty dense books, pay attention to sometimes-boring lectures, and often defer instant gratification when designing and testing things. But my voice is but a whisper in the storm of incessant digital input.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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BobF
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/05 16:43:44
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☄ Helpfulby bayoubill 2016/03/05 18:04:38
It all started with two unrelated things "we" did. 1 - We put helmets on the little ones for EVERYTHING. 2 - We have competitions without score keeping, awarding "participation trophies". We've taught entire generations that effort doesn't matter; in fact effort is to be avoided unless you have an appropriate helmet fitted.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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bitman
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/05 16:57:11
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We're so dead. - with any luck anyway.
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craigb
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Re: Millennials are becoming almost unemployable
2016/03/05 17:07:43
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/03/05 20:37:01
BobF It all started with two unrelated things "we" did. 1 - We put helmets on the little ones for EVERYTHING.
Actually, if all the parents of the so-called Millennials had remembered to put "helmets" on their little ones, then we wouldn't HAVE this problem. 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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