Mixing Practice

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DeeringAmps
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/21 12:59:31 (permalink)
MrSwift,
Somehow I "missed" your mix.
We must have been posting at the same time.
You downloaded just the stems, didn't you?
 
T
 

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#31
patm300e
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/21 14:09:53 (permalink)
Sure...Try this one
https://soundcloud.com/patm300e/im-alright-1
 
All I did with BG Vocals is full pan Left and right with a ton of reverb...
 
 

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#32
DeeringAmps
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/21 14:22:27 (permalink)
I panned them L & R as well, not 100%.
And I added some verb, but I didn't get the same effect.
Again, good job.
I'm not getting any love on the download front, I armed a track in SONAR and recorded it.
Its transportable now.
T

Tom Deering
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#33
timidi
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/21 22:01:39 (permalink)
great mixes guys

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#34
Sheanes
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/22 19:22:54 (permalink)
I downloaded the mp3 file mix by PATM300E, and reloaded a 'mastered' version (it's download enabled).
could get a better sound (and better lows) with a mix in wav. format (48k sample rate ideally).
 
https://soundcloud.com/user-349211608/patm300e-im-allright
 
really very good mix I thought..
post edited by Sheanes - 2017/01/22 21:38:52
#35
patm300e
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/23 07:27:21 (permalink)
Sheanes
I downloaded the mp3 file mix by PATM300E, and reloaded a 'mastered' version (it's download enabled).
could get a better sound (and better lows) with a mix in wav. format (48k sample rate ideally).
https://soundcloud.com/user-349211608/patm300e-im-allright
really very good mix I thought..

Do you mean upload the Wav file instead of the mp3 into SoundCloud?  With their compression algorithm, I would bet it would be close to the same.
 
I always struggle with the lows. Some people like extra bass.  I personally like it a little lighter than most people.  I do however like to be able to hear the separate bass guitar and kick, but gently done.  Most of todays mixes have too much bass for me.  Some are so bad I have to turn them off.  (This is mostly the pop music of today). 
 
There were no mixes in here that I had to turn off!
 

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#36
Slugbaby
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/23 08:56:21 (permalink)
patm300e
 
Mr. Swift - On my system your mix is a little bass heavy. The bass is almost louder than the vocals (do you play bass?)
The vocals are nicely done not over treated but stand in there nicely.  Did you not like the electric guitar?  It is gone until the end.  At one point the keys are out there alone until the very end!  Then that electric comes in strong.
The mix seems a little compressed especially at the beginning.  Or is this a gate?
 
 


I gave it another listen this morning, and you're right - it's a little bass heavy.  But just a bit.  I play the bass, as well as guitar and sing though, so I don't think that was the bias.  Fair question though...
 
Yeah, I hate combining that style of lead guitar with this type of song.  To me, it clashes and feels like the guitarist is trying to steal the spotlight from the rest of the band.  I felt the ending needed something different, so I "let" him play at that point, but I feel like he'd have hated me if I was their engineer!  But if it's MY mix, I don't want it.
I really liked the piano track, and knowing that most would be guitar-centric I wanted to try something different.
I was careful not to over-treat the vocals (and the rest of the instruments), maybe it's the punk side of my background showing through but I like the raw honesty.
 
That would have been a compressor on the master bus, showing through at the beginning.  I'm still hit-and-miss on master compression....
 
 
And yes, Deering, I think the stems were all I saw.  Must have clicked on the wrong link, I was a little disappointed that the drums were mostly pre-mixed.  Evidently that's why.
post edited by Slugbaby - 2017/01/23 12:55:50

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#37
Sheanes
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/23 12:48:10 (permalink)
Hi Patm300e, yes if you could upload the wav. file to soundcloud....I can download it for the mastering.
Will make quite a difference.
And your mix was really good imo, not too much of anything.
#38
Hatstand
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/23 15:49:13 (permalink)
I thought I would give this a go during some down time. Like some of you mentioned, I am really struggling with the ending. I feel like I want to caricature the vocals as they are pretty uninspiring as is. If I don't crack it tomorrow I will upload it in any case.

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#39
patm300e
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/23 18:42:51 (permalink)
OK, as requested, here is the WAV file uploaded:
https://soundcloud.com/patm300e/im-alright-2
 
You SHOULD be able to down load this one as well.
 

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Sheanes
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/23 19:37:36 (permalink)
here's the 'mastered' version:  
https://soundcloud.com/user-349211608/take2-im-alright
would you please drop a line when you've downloaded it ?
(the file I loaded is a hair louder iic, but sounds the same to me).
 
btw: couldn't compare this new wav stream against the MP3 stream you had.
but it might be worth checking if a wav. sounds better/louder than MP3 on soundcloud.
 
again, great mixing !
#41
patm300e
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/24 07:11:05 (permalink)
Thanks Sheanes!  I will Download this evening (I believe I am about 5 hours behind you (East Coast USA) so it will be in the middle of the might for you.
 
 

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#42
Hatstand
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/26 13:11:33 (permalink)
Thought I would join in the fun. Not as bad as I thought but I do miss using a de-esser and de-breath
Only plugs used were pro channel modules, sonitus fx and a lot of LP MB eq's
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2nx9luocbsl4b7d/AACBVwF01Y_XxYPRttr3dpLea?dl=0
cloned both the electric and acoustic guitars to run hard left and right with a sonitus delay on one channel and cut some snippets for the last stab as I thought the ending needed something (hopefully that is allowed)
:)
 
p.s. and yes I did listen to "Smooth" by Santana
 
Quite interesting listening to the other mixes now I have done mine. Loved the piano sound on Slug/Mr Swifts, liked the pronounced cymbals on Pats, liked the vocal clarity on the others. I didn't get on with the vocal (not enough character for me) hence adding delay. Not to everyone's taste but I thought it gave it a bit of life it was missing.
post edited by Hatstand - 2017/01/26 13:33:31

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#43
patm300e
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/27 06:57:03 (permalink)
Hatstand
the pronounced cymbals on Pats

 
Yeah, that makes sense...I am a drummer.
 
Sheanes, I haven't forgotten you.  I have been very busy lately.  I answer this forum away from my home studio and cannot download anything.

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#44
Sheanes
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/27 10:25:17 (permalink)
Hi Pat, will leave it on soundcloud for you untill you can download it, no need to hurry.
Hope you'll like it !
 
#45
patm300e
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/30 07:19:49 (permalink)
Sheanes, listened to it last night... Wow!  Nice job everything just jumps out.  Do you do mastering for a living?
I don't mix for a living (or even a side job).  I am a hobbyist.  Mixing for the love of music...
 
 

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#46
Sheanes
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/01/30 09:14:16 (permalink)
Hi Pat, glad you like it ! A friend who was over mastered it on his laptop in 5 minutes...must be some plugin or online mastering I don't know.
Thought your mix sounded great, I'm still learning and not sure if I ever get to your level.
Cheers.
 
 
#47
patm300e
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/02 09:45:25 (permalink)
Keep plugging at it Sheanes.  With Mixing it takes practice above all.  I would like to know what your friend used to master it!
Thanks,
Pat

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telecharge
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/10 22:24:35 (permalink)
What's up, guys? I'm late to the party, but thanks to Pat for the heads up on this practice session.

If you're not yet sick of the song, please give my mix a listen and give some feedback. I'm in the process of listening to your mixes. Cheers!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwpzUEOfkD1wSXJ2MGtiZjNlWkk
 
#49
mudgel
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/12 06:39:44 (permalink)
As to using only Sonar plugins.

This will put various folks at a disadvantage. Eg. Platinum users have the most plugins while Artist users have far less plugins to choose from.

Maybe a way around it is to ask everyone to just name all the plugins and how they use them.

That makes the whole process about mixing and nothing else.

Mike V.

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#50
telecharge
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/12 08:00:29 (permalink)
Hi, Mike. Wouldn't the people with a better collection of plug-ins still have an advantage? I believe skill is more important than the tools, but I'm just trying to follow your line of thinking.
 
As for me, I like the idea of working within constraints.
#51
greg_moreira
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/12 12:43:15 (permalink)
telecharge
Hi, Mike. Wouldn't the people with a better collection of plug-ins still have an advantage? I believe skill is more important than the tools, but I'm just trying to follow your line of thinking.
 
As for me, I like the idea of working within constraints.




I agree.  I want to get in on this at some point too. Hopefully sometime by next weekend I will have time to throw some fun projects like this in the mix(pun intended lol).  The long and the short of it is....  under the subject of 'mixing practice', I think were inclined to learn more as a group if we're limited to a really similar bag of tools.
 
if a handful of dudes have really great final products, within the confines of that bag of tools, and are willing to share how they got there....I think it teaches a lot about technique and how to use the tools.
 
if the best dudes also use the best tools in their arsenal(tools that we may not all have), then its somewhat less of a learning experience.  At that point it leaves the impression that "I need to buy those tools before I can begin to expect that same result"
 
That said....  if folks feel like taking the time .... I don't see anything wrong at all with folks producing two final products if they want to.  One limited to the plugin suite in most full versions of sonar, and another throwing every trick in the book at it with whatever tools he/she chooses.
#52
batsbrew
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/12 14:22:46 (permalink)
wow,
you guys have time to mix other peoples projects, for fun?
 
man, i barely have time to even TRACK my own stuff,
much less mix it!
 
power to you!

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#53
telecharge
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/12 16:42:31 (permalink)
batsbrew
wow,
you guys have time to mix other peoples projects, for fun?
 
man, i barely have time to even TRACK my own stuff,
much less mix it!
 
power to you!




I can't speak for anyone else, but when you enjoy doing something, you find the time. I'm not currently making any music, so this is what practice looks like. I'm guessing a writer/guitarist/singer/bassist/sound engineer/producer such as yourself still finds time to practice.
#54
Jeff Evans
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/12 17:06:06 (permalink)
I firmly believe you can achieve really excellent mixes even with limited plugins.
 
Just looking at Artist you have got the entire Anderton Collection.  Wow!  Then all the Sonitus stuff.  (Essential Suite)  They are all great plugins too plus the Classic Creative Suite.  More than enough.  No one is at a disadvantage with Artist alone.  I for one would be very happy with just the Artist plugin suite.
 
I was watching an interview on Pensado's Place with a famous engineer, can't remember who and he said how many compressors do you need.  Like he used one or two.  (stock ones at that)  They are all very similar you know.
 
Great mixes are the result of the decisions and choices you make. Not so about about how many plugins you actually own.  I have got tons you know and still only use a handful every time.  Funny about that.
 
It can sometimes be good to be restricted in what you have.  Restriction often leads to innovation and being creative.  I started out (in 1980) with a Teak Model 2A mixer that had no active EQ only filters.  I became good with it. Very good.  (It forced me to program the synths I was recording much more in order obtain the sounds I wanted.  Became very good at synth programming) I started out with only four tracks and practiced mixing only up to four sources for 3 years before I got an 8 track. I became very good at that. Very good. Jumping into 32 track mixing sessions is just dumb.  Practice mixing a small number of sources first.  You will learn so much from it.  Work Up.

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#55
mudgel
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/13 00:42:26 (permalink)
telecharge
Hi, Mike. Wouldn't the people with a better collection of plug-ins still have an advantage? I believe skill is more important than the tools, but I'm just trying to follow your line of thinking.
 
As for me, I like the idea of working within constraints.


As it stands now, those who don't have Platinum will be left out. It's a difficult situation to include everyone who wants.

At least if folks explained how they used their plugins we'd know how they got a particular sound. If someone wanted to use Sonar only plugins because that's all they had, fine. I tend to overthink things, making it far more complicated than it needs be. Just some food for thought.

Mike V.

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#56
patm300e
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/13 07:57:28 (permalink)
mudgel
As it stands now, those who don't have Platinum will be left out. It's a difficult situation to include everyone who wants.
At least if folks explained how they used their plugins we'd know how they got a particular sound. If someone wanted to use Sonar only plugins because that's all they had, fine. I tend to overthink things, making it far more complicated than it needs be. Just some food for thought.



I think anyone who has Sonar (even Home Studio) can do this, just using a different set of plugins.  I would be happy to share everything I did from the ground up to final mix.
The first thing was to get all the wav files into SONAR which is a simple File, Import for each channel.
Then I played it back with ALL of the faders at 0 and set the level using the Input level (also known as gain staging and a VERY important step!).
 
After gain staging, I then put in an effects free rough mix to get the levels where I wanted them.
While listening back (still no effects!) I set up some basic panning to get things in space the way I envisioned this band would set up.  The background vocal tracks panned HARD left and right, electric guitar kind of near center (~20%) and the acoustic lead at about 20% the other side of the electric.  I out the leys out further at first,
 
I then applied Prochannel presets based on the type of input.  I used the existing presets and tweaked (mostly the EQ) them.
 
After the panning was set and the presets selected, , I set out to make some room for the instruments and vocals.  I used EQ on each track to do this.  (Great information about this here: http://therecordingrevolution.com/mixing-with-eq-carving-eq-holes/).
 
Once I had all that going, the mix started coming together and I changed the panning a bit moving the keys closer to center.
 
I then started applying the effects I created a new stereo bus and called it Reverb.  I set up the Rematrix Solo on the Pro Channel of the bus and dialed in the GoToVerb for 100% wet.
 
I sent up sends on each Vocal channel to go to the Reverb Bus.  By setting the level on the sends, I was able to adjust the amount of reverb for each vocal.  Then I used the reverb bus fader to control the overall amount of reverb in the mix.
 
I created buses for the Vocals, Percussion, and Guitars. I set the basic levels on the channel faders and then listening to the entire mix, set the levels with the buses.  I was unhappy with some of the percussion. Then I realized that I needed to set up gates for the Tom hits.  I did this and I felt it really helped tighten up the percussion.  I would have liked individual channels for ALL of the percussion, but since it was not provided, I used what was there.
 
 
My Final Mix has the CA - 2A compressor on it.  That may be counted as cheating as it is not included with Sonar, but Cakewalk offered this for free for about a month so I felt because of that it was OK.
 
I used a preset for the Final Bus Pro Channel. 
I can do a screen shot of these OR maybe even a short video if anyone is interested.
 
Total time was about 2 hours.  I am one who really has a tough time letting go...I am NEVER really happy with the final result, but I gave myself a time limit (2 hours) and that really seemed to help me let go of it.
 
 
 I do own the new version of Sonar Home Studio and would be happy to remix this in that if anyone is interested.
 
 

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#57
batsbrew
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/02/13 10:10:50 (permalink)
I can't speak for anyone else, but when you enjoy doing something, you find the time. I'm not currently making any music, so this is what practice looks like. I'm guessing a writer/guitarist/singer/bassist/sound engineer/producer such as yourself still finds time to practice.
 
 
actually no, i never practice!!
LOL
 
if i've got even a half hour, to write, or track, or mix, that's what i'm doing.
ghod knows i wished i had as much time as i wanted to be creative
I can't speak for anyone else, but when you enjoy doing something, you find the time. I'm not currently making any music, so this is what practice looks like. I'm guessing a writer/guitarist/singer/bassist/sound engineer/producer such as yourself still finds time to practice.

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#58
greg_moreira
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/01 23:09:23 (permalink)
Im a little late to the party, but here is my first crack at it.
 
https://soundcloud.com/greg-s-moreira/im-alright-master-mp3
 
normally Id sit on it for a night and master it in the morning, but I just powered through start to finish in somewhere around 3.5 hrs or so.  
 
I used only plugins available in sonar platinum(obviously ones that come with it lol). 
 
 
#59
DeeringAmps
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/02 14:26:36 (permalink)
To date there's been very little "substantive" discussion of the various mixes.
When I get home I'll get them all together in the studio where I can get a little better listen.
To Greg, better late than never!
On my laptop and Bose headphones I'd day your snare is a little "hot" and probably using up
a lot of "headroom".
But mixing is so subjective; everyone has a style and a focus.
I like the tune and I enjoyed your mix. (all the mixes really)
I think all the SONAR mixes so far are "better" than the mp3 supplied with the project.
At least to my ears; especially if I was the AIM singer!
Maybe we can get into discussing our mix techniques and share some ideas, approaches, etc.
 
T

Tom Deering
Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page
Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins

Win7x64
StudioCat Custom i7 950 Pro+ 16gb RAM
SONAR Platinum 2016.9 waiting for the "Markers" fix
RME UFX (Audio)
Tascam FW-1884 (Control)
#60
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