Mixing Practice

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greg_moreira
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/02 17:05:21 (permalink)
DeeringAmps
To date there's been very little "substantive" discussion of the various mixes.
When I get home I'll get them all together in the studio where I can get a little better listen.
To Greg, better late than never!
On my laptop and Bose headphones I'd day your snare is a little "hot" and probably using up
a lot of "headroom".
But mixing is so subjective; everyone has a style and a focus.
I like the tune and I enjoyed your mix. (all the mixes really)
I think all the SONAR mixes so far are "better" than the mp3 supplied with the project.
At least to my ears; especially if I was the AIM singer!
Maybe we can get into discussing our mix techniques and share some ideas, approaches, etc.
 
T




 
Tom, I agree with you.
 
Little background here.  I "just" finished a brand new room for studio purposes.  New layout, moderate treatment, new monitors and Im new to sonar platinum as well.  So this is only the 2nd project I have worked since I got all the new stuff going.  Still building a template and workflow and all that fun stuff.
 
Right now im finding that either the monitors or the room sound a little rich, and a little rolled off on the top end.
 
It keeps forcing me to take out a little more low mid than necessary and add a little more mid spike than necessary, and I have noticed this tendency on a few mixes I've prepared since starting to work here.  
 
Listening back to my mix on a handful of sources I thought both the snare and the hats come across as a bit abrasive.
 
I appreciate the feedback though because it does confirm something that I feel myself when I listen in other sources.  
 
My guess is I probably need to A: just get better acclimated to the monitors. and B) probably need dedicated bass trapping so that everything doesnt sound so rich down low.  not boomy.  But it does sound very full and rich in the room
 
I will take another crack at this one today hopefully using some references in the room to help gauge the harshness and loudness
 
To your next point...  Im perfectly happy to share my approach and could make some notes later tonight or tomorrow.  Definitely would help this exercise to explain how we do it, rather than just listening to end results
#61
greg_moreira
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/02 21:11:22 (permalink)
alright one last crack at this one.
 
Im happy with this.  Best im going to get it using all stock plugins.  Any other changes wouldnt necessarily be better...  just different.
 
https://soundcloud.com/greg-s-moreira/im-alright-master2-mp3
 
took some of the shrill frequencies out of the snare and guitars etc and added a tick of body and tweaked the master.
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greg_moreira
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/02 21:20:00 (permalink)
telecharge
What's up, guys? I'm late to the party, but thanks to Pat for the heads up on this practice session.

If you're not yet sick of the song, please give my mix a listen and give some feedback. I'm in the process of listening to your mixes. Cheers!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwpzUEOfkD1wSXJ2MGtiZjNlWkk
 


I like it.  Good overall mix, but the one thing I dont really dig is it sounds like you either used a super fast delay, or cloned guitars and delayed them so you could pan them. Its noticeable in the acoustic solo in the beginning and that effect creates what sounds like a phase issue where theres sort of a hole in all the midrange frequencies.
 
I tend to try to use an imager or stereo verb to make them sound bigger if I only have one track and want it to be more stereo
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patm300e
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/03 12:26:45 (permalink)
Greg, your mix sounds really good!  I do agree with DeeringAmps...The snare may be a little hot.
 (Talking the Original mix here, not the second one!)
 
The kick sounds fantastic!  How did you dial that in like that? 

SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive.  Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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greg_moreira
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/03 14:48:04 (permalink)
patm300e
Greg, your mix sounds really good!  I do agree with DeeringAmps...The snare may be a little hot.
 (Talking the Original mix here, not the second one!)
 
The kick sounds fantastic!  How did you dial that in like that? 


Thanks man, im glad you liked it!
 
Even in the second mix, the snare I kept pretty hot....but I took a tad of harshness out.  So it doesnt have that upper midrange spike that punches you in the ear quite as hard.  It still has a lot of volume, but on upbeat songs, I like the kick and snare to be very present to add energy to the song.  Obviously if a client totally disliked it, things would change.  But normally for any kind of upbeat track with some energy I try to showcase the drums to make the song 'slam' a little.
 
About the kick, it was a process lol.
 
It sounded really good as is, but I wanted a little more beef and a little more punch/attack also.  So in general, here is how I did the drums overall(part of what was done overall impacted the kick).
 
my normal process is to always use the track output to send every drum/room mics/cymbals to a drum bus.
 
In that bus I apply very light compression just for some glue.  Attack usually around 30ms so it doesnt squash any of the transients of the hit, and release time I adjust depending on the speed of the track.  I want it to let go fast enough so its not still compressing on the next kick or snare hit.  A really speedy drum track would require a faster release that something that is slower for example.  in total there might be 3db worth of gain reduction in the compressor with usually a 2 or 4:1 ratio.  So its hardly obvious.  Just adds some glue
 
the next step is using sends on the individual drums(drums only, no cymbals) and send the drums themselves to the same stereo buss where I parallel compress everything.  in here I use a fast attack, like 0 to 5 MS because my goal is to crush the transients.  I use at least a 10:1 ratio and at least 8 DB of gain reduction.  I smash them pretty good to make them sound really round with very little attack.  I output this to the drum buss also and just bring up the fader until the drums thicken the right amount.
 
for this particular track I wanted just a tiny bit more kick attack, so I duplicated the kick track, gated the heck out of it to where it was more like a quick pulse and nothing else, and EQ'd that pulse for a little more snap, outputted it to the drum bus, and slowly blended it in til the kick got a little more presence.
 
 
 
 
#65
greg_moreira
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/03 17:55:38 (permalink)
oh one other note I forgot to make.  If you have the mix in front of you....  zoom in.  I mean waay waay in and compare the snare to the overheads and the kick to the overheads.
 
You'll notice that if you are studying a snare hit....the wave on the snare close mic starts sooner than in the overheads.
 
Same deal with the kick.  The wave on the close kick mic begins sooner than the snare.
 
This is simply due to distance.  The overheads are further away from the snare than the close snare mic is.
 
Even if they are in phase....  you still get some degree of phase cancellation because of the ever so slight delay.
 
they are about 100 samples apart from one another.  I use the nudge function to bring the kick and snare smack in line with the overhead.
 
That alone thickens up the sound of the kick and snare.  The difference was super subtle in this song, but it was there.
 
Sometimes the difference is surprisingly huge.
 
If you are a fan of spaced pair overhead micing VS making sure each overhead is the exact same difference from the snare...  definitely employ this tactic just to perfectly line your overheads up with one another.
 
spaced pair with one mic further away from the snare than the other WILL show up when you look at the wave form zoomed in heavily.  And even if it is in phase .....  nudging one or the other so that they are spot on to your snare reference will add a slight bit of meat to the hits.
 
I use spaced pair to record drums because im more concerned with where the mics are placed in reference to the cymbals.
 
I then zoom in and nudge things to line up the overheads, and then the kick and snare with the overheads, so that it acts like I put each mic the same distance from the snare.
 
best of both worlds really. 
#66
telecharge
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/10 09:56:35 (permalink)
greg_moreira
I like it.  Good overall mix, but the one thing I dont really dig is it sounds like you either used a super fast delay, or cloned guitars and delayed them so you could pan them. Its noticeable in the acoustic solo in the beginning and that effect creates what sounds like a phase issue where theres sort of a hole in all the midrange frequencies.
 
I tend to try to use an imager or stereo verb to make them sound bigger if I only have one track and want it to be more stereo




Hey, thanks for the feedback, Greg. Sorry it took me this long to reply, as I had given up on this thread. The effect on the guitar is a preset Sonar FX chain for guitar. Sorry you didn't dig it.
 
I've gotten feedback on my mix from a few different places, and so far there hasn't been a consistent criticism, but everyone has given me ideas for improvement.
 
I listened to your (2nd) mix and enjoyed it, too. It did sound just a bit muddy in the low end to my ears, but that could very well be my monitoring system or simply the fact that I'm so used to hearing my mix that the contrast is deceiving me.
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greg_moreira
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Re: Mixing Practice 2017/03/10 16:37:12 (permalink)
telecharge
greg_moreira
I like it.  Good overall mix, but the one thing I dont really dig is it sounds like you either used a super fast delay, or cloned guitars and delayed them so you could pan them. Its noticeable in the acoustic solo in the beginning and that effect creates what sounds like a phase issue where theres sort of a hole in all the midrange frequencies.
 
I tend to try to use an imager or stereo verb to make them sound bigger if I only have one track and want it to be more stereo




Hey, thanks for the feedback, Greg. Sorry it took me this long to reply, as I had given up on this thread. The effect on the guitar is a preset Sonar FX chain for guitar. Sorry you didn't dig it.
 
I've gotten feedback on my mix from a few different places, and so far there hasn't been a consistent criticism, but everyone has given me ideas for improvement.
 
I listened to your (2nd) mix and enjoyed it, too. It did sound just a bit muddy in the low end to my ears, but that could very well be my monitoring system or simply the fact that I'm so used to hearing my mix that the contrast is deceiving me.




 
its probably my own bias kicking in.  That effect sonar applied...  I used to do that manually a lot when I was first starting out with recording.
 
I didnt fully understand stereo and overdubbing and what not.  I just recorded some things on my home computer and through some playing around, and with limited info on the net to really teach a newbie what to do back then...  I found that I could duplicate my tracks, pan left and right, and then move one of them a few MS and it opened up the stereo field.
 
I started doing that with everything that should have some stereo image and thought I was really onto something.  So at times Id have multiple elements within one mix all using this approach to make them all stereo.  This was 20 years ago with more primitive cakewalk software and I was brand new to music and recording as a whole.
 
Listening back all those old mixes of mine sound hollow with obvious phase issues, but at the time it was like I opened up pandoras box when I figured that trick out lol.
 
nowadays, the 'sound' of that pseudo stereo effect is just burnt into my ears.  I hear it right away and tend to gravitate away from it just because of my own experience with it.
 
its like if you ever have a little bit too much to drink and get yourself sick.  Whatever you were drinking that night....its like you never touch it again lol 
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