Doktor Avalanche 
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 22:39:33
(permalink)
John
No its an endless argument. One that at present I see no purpose for. Heck I'm not even sure what the thread is about anymore.
Well then please stay out of the thread if you feel that way. Stop rocking the boat, the only aggression so far I'm reading is from you, it's been a fairly respectful, sensible and calm discussion, stating all sorts of viewpoints. Up until you joined in. You are clearly out to polarise once again.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/12/04 22:53:12
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
kevinwal
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1066
- Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
- Location: Rogers, AR
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 22:43:53
(permalink)
Let me try it another way.
Your notion is that a no-features stability release will carry fewer defects than the current release process, and it's an attractive idea. That might be true only because you won't be shipping any of the defects in the excluded new features. There will still be an appreciable number of brand new defects in the fixes-only codebase. The more defects that are fixed in a release, the more the potential for new defects. This is the point I believe Noel was making.
As you know, regression tests only test aspects of the code that were broken and then fixed. Unfortunately there are many usage contexts for which no test has yet been created, and regression tests will not uncover them because they are not regression defects. They are brand new.
To make things more interesting, as more fixes are applied, the more defects that subsequently arise tend to manifest themselves in increasingly complex and subtle ways. These defects also fall outside the scope of regressions and are damned difficult to write unit tests for.
Of course, over time, these issues are eventually addressed, additional regression tests are created and product managers then nervously declare that portion of the software to be probably mostly somewhat reliable. Maybe. :)
Broadly speaking, since the number of bugs in a proposed "stability release" may well not be appreciably fewer than in a standard release, the decision to do one over another is not a technical decision, it is a business decision.
Fix-only releases tend to encourage deployment of the software by the existing customer base, which is of course a good thing. Microsoft was forever fighting to get enterprises to deploy new releases of software, so service packs were key to making that happen. For smaller, more revenue constrained outfits, it's the new features that matter. Balance.
I once saw some math that covered a lot of this but I don't remember a bit of it.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
|
kevinwal
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1066
- Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
- Location: Rogers, AR
- Status: offline
Re: Platinum subscription ending in December
2015/12/04 22:55:28
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
Anderton
But I think Cake's track record of fixing bugs that ride along with new features is, frankly, excellent. It's rare that a problem persists past the next update.
And I'm going to totally agree with you here Craig. Regression issues get fixed with new features pretty well.
The crutch of the issue is they get packaged with brand new features that in turn need their regression issues fixed every single month without fail. Roll back and you are in a similar scenario just with different regression issues to cope with (which become unfixed as you have rolled back).
I may be wrong about this, but you seem to be confusing regression issues with features that once worked, were fixed but are now broken again. They are different, but kind of the same, but not. A regression issue is specifically an area of code that once worked but now does not. A feature may be broken by a bit of code, then fixed and have a regression test for it, then in the next round be broken again by completely different code that manifests itself in exactly the same way as it did with the earlier defect. For the latter, no existing regression test exists, so additional regression testing will not uncover the defect. Rather, the defect must be discovered, then repaired, then a regression test developed for the new case. This is a real challenge for small companies doing effective fixes-only releases.
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/12/04 23:11:05
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 23:05:49
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
John
No its an endless argument. One that at present I see no purpose for. Heck I'm not even sure what the thread is about anymore.
Well then please stay out of the thread if you feel that way. Stop rocking the boat, the only aggression so far I'm reading is from you, it's been a fairly respectful, sensible and calm discussion, stating all sorts of viewpoints. Up until you joined in. You are clearly out to polarise once again.
Nonsense. I'm expressing a view too. A view that this thread has become tedious. It may not fit your agenda but it is a view.
|
kevinwal
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1066
- Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
- Location: Rogers, AR
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 23:07:26
(permalink)
John
Doktor Avalanche
John
No its an endless argument. One that at present I see no purpose for. Heck I'm not even sure what the thread is about anymore.
Well then please stay out of the thread if you feel that way. Stop rocking the boat, the only aggression so far I'm reading is from you, it's been a fairly respectful, sensible and calm discussion, stating all sorts of viewpoints. Up until you joined in. You are clearly out to polarise once again.
Nonsense. I'm expressing a view too. A view that this thread has become tedious. It may not fit your agenda but it is a view.
lol, it's a subject only a geek could love. For the sanity of others I'll stop now. Oh, and to make it clear, I love the monthly releases as they are now. I'm one stupidly happy Cakewalk customer here.
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/12/04 23:20:44
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 23:12:11
(permalink)
kevinwal
Let me try it another way.
Your notion is that a no-features stability release will carry fewer defects than the current release process, and it's an attractive idea. That might be true only because you won't be shipping any of the defects in the excluded new features. There will still be an appreciable number of brand new defects in the fixes-only codebase.
I'll paste this again.. Doktor Avalanche
And it's iterative as well, meaning if the release brings up new bugs, they get fixed straight away until the release is deemed stable.
kevinwalThe more defects that are fixed in a release, the more the potential for new defects. This is the point I believe Noel was making.
Noel was referring to old codebase in the paraphrase, not new. Noel was specifically saying it's much easier to keep things stable when fixing issues with NEW features rather than with old. I did supply quotes earlier. May I ask a favour in future that you quote rather than paraphrase it really does help avoid looping :) kevinwal
Broadly speaking, since the number of bugs in a proposed "stability release" may well not be appreciably fewer than in a standard release, the decision to do one over another is not a technical decision, it is a business decision.
You are darn right there. And it's exactly the same for the customer. What they are going to be prepared to cope with or not. Without a stability release path I suspect some customers may end up voting with their feet. Others customers of course will forgive regression issues because they have shiney new features. I don't think either profile of customer is 'right' or 'wrong' (sadly too often the topic of conversation in these forums) but do I believe both profiles need to be catored for otherwise there could be more even pain along the way. I hope cakewalk sees the business argument here.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/12/04 23:37:43
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 23:21:04
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2015/12/07 19:43:05
John
Nonsense. I'm expressing a view too. A view that this thread has become tedious. It may not fit your agenda but it is a view.
You of all people should realise those sorts of statements really do get up peoples noses. Your 'view' isn't contributing anything at all except to derail the discussion as you well know. The very fact you've now mentioned the 'agenda' word speaks bucketloads, further pointing fingers, polariasing people and stiring up the muck. I guess this is what you want. Are none of us are allowed to have a conversation unless you agree with it? Can we please now continue with the thread sir??
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/12/04 23:35:38
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
kevinwal
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1066
- Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
- Location: Rogers, AR
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 23:25:23
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
kevinwal
Let me try it another way.
Your notion is that a no-features stability release will carry fewer defects than the current release process, and it's an attractive idea. That might be true only because you won't be shipping any of the defects in the excluded new features. There will still be an appreciable number of brand new defects in the fixes-only codebase.
I'll paste this again..
Doktor Avalanche
And it's iterative as well, meaning if the release brings up new bugs, they get fixed straight away until the release is deemed stable.
This is done before the release, new code or old. Once it's shipped, it is what it is. And deeming a release stable is not an arbitrarily objective measure. It's based on too many factors to recount here, but the prime directive is Ship. Doktor Avalanche
kevinwalThe more defects that are fixed in a release, the more the potential for new defects. This is the point I believe Noel was making.
Noel was referring to old codebase in the paraphrase, not new. I've supplied the quote earlier.
Noel was specifically saying it's much easier to keep things stable when fixing issues with NEW features rather than with old. I did supply quotes earlier.
Yes, and so was I. Doktor Avalanche
May I ask a favour in future that you quote rather than paraphrase it really does help avoid looping :)
No, I'm much too lazy to go to all that bother. Doktor Avalanche
kevinwal
Broadly speaking, since the number of bugs in a proposed "stability release" may well not be appreciably fewer than in a standard release, the decision to do one over another is not a technical decision, it is a business decision.
You are darn right there. And it's exactly the same for the customer. What they are going to be prepared to cope with or not. Without a stability release path I suspect some customers may end up voting with their feet. Others customers of course will forgive regression issues because they have shiney new features. I don't think either profile of customer is 'right' or 'wrong' (sadly too often the topic of conversation in these forums) but do I believe both profiles need to be catored for otherwise there could be more even pain along the way. I hope cakewalk sees the business argument here.
And that's where the personal decision for you, the customer comes in, and thus the purpose of this thread. If you decide to bail on Sonar because Noel & Co. will not adopt your recommended release process, well, that's your call, Doktor. I can tell you that from a product management team's perspective the decision on what to ship and not ship and how to do it is one that is agonized over. It's certainly not a decision that's taken lightly. So I respect the decision Cakewalk has made. It is what it is. PS: I'd also add that we're barely a year into this model. From sitting outside, I'm quite impressed with the quality of the releases and the rapid turnaround of fixes to breaking changes. If we were four years in, I might change my mind, but for now, nope. Cheers.
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/12/04 23:39:24
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 23:34:44
(permalink)
kevinwal
I can tell you that from a product management team's perspective the decision on what to ship and not ship and how to do it is one that is agonized over. It's certainly not a decision that's taken lightly. So I respect the decision Cakewalk has made. It is what it is.
You don't have to tell me, I've worked for several software houses I agree they definitely are agonised after. You are probably aware of the politics between marketing / qa and developers as well... When you say though 'I respect the decision Cakewalk has made. It is what it is' you are implying they are some sort of immovable force that will not be moved, that hardly makes good business sense. I don't think they are myself, eventually they will adapt to market demands, one hopes they are able to predict rather than play catch up. BTW as I keep saying I do like the monthly release cycle if people think I'm disagreeing with it. Not my point at all.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
kevinwal
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1066
- Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
- Location: Rogers, AR
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 23:44:19
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
kevinwal
I can tell you that from a product management team's perspective the decision on what to ship and not ship and how to do it is one that is agonized over. It's certainly not a decision that's taken lightly. So I respect the decision Cakewalk has made. It is what it is.
You don't have to tell me, I've worked for several software houses I agree they definitely are agonised after. You are probably aware of the politics between marketing / qa and developers as well...
I was a product manager at a company many years ago, and I brokered many wrestling matches between the interest groups. So yeah. But both teams always wanted the best for the company, they just refused to acknowledge that they were both right. Doktor Avalanche
When you say though 'I respect the decision Cakewalk has made. It is what it is' you are implying they are some sort of immovable force that will not be moved, that hardly makes good business sense.
Strawman argument, Dok. No, that's not what I'm saying. I am saying that they've made a decision and they will stick with it as long as they perceive that it's in their interest to do so. For example, if all their customers abandon the product for Bitwig or some such thing, they'll certainly make a move. But they haven't so far, so they must have some preliminary indication that things are going pretty well. And while they certainly listen, one or two noisey customers in a crowd of pretty happy ones won't cause them to spend a boatload of money to retool. Doktor Avalanche
I don't think they are myself, eventually they will adapt to market demands, one hopes they are able to predict rather than play catch up. BTW as I keep saying I do like the monthly release cycle if people think I'm disagreeing with it. Not my point at all.
Yeah, I don't hear you complaining about the release cycle, only that they're not doing it right. 
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/12/04 23:56:34
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/04 23:55:10
(permalink)
kevinwal
Yeah, I don't hear you complaining about the release cycle, only that they're not doing it right.
Will you please quote me in future! I never come up with comments like that at all in these sort of discussions. I'm certainly not saying they aren't doing it right, I'm asking for the model to be tweaked to accommodate for customers who would rather wait out for stability releases (so they can get less agro), rather than just for those who install so they can get shiney new features that haven't been been put out in the field. I believe both sorts of customers can be accommodated for, they can have their cake and eat it. Anyway thanks for a sensible discussion enjoyed reading your posts.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/12/05 00:08:20
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
kevinwal
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1066
- Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
- Location: Rogers, AR
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 00:21:52
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
kevinwal
Yeah, I don't hear you complaining about the release cycle, only that they're not doing it right.
Will you please quote me in future! I never come up with comments like that at all in these sort of discussions.
You see the smiley, right? Doktor Avalanche
I'm certainly not saying they aren't doing it right, I'm asking for the model to be tweaked to accommodate for customers who would rather wait out for stability releases (so they can get less agro), rather than just for those who install so they can get shiney new features that haven't been been put out in the field. I believe both sorts of customers can be accommodated for, they can have their cake and eat it.
Anyway thanks for a sensible discussion enjoyed reading your posts.
Sigh. The point I've been making is that stability releases may well be just as agro as regular ones. Then what? Anyway, you're welcome.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 00:33:46
(permalink)
kevinwal
Sigh. The point I've been making is that stability releases may well be just as agro as regular ones. Then what? Anyway, you're welcome.
And I'm disagreeing with you. All you are suggesting here is that all code when altered can produce bugs which is true. Cakewalk has done unscheduled stability releases in the past (looks like there might be one for the 64 bit precision engine issue coming up) with no further issues. If another major issue cropped up as a result from such a patch they would probably be forced to do yet another unscheduled release. Releases concentrating on existing regression and no new features of course will be less agro to the end user. And I already made the point several times about an iterative cycle here and the target. It's not rocket science and has been part of software development for decades.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/12/05 00:46:48
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
coolbass
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 78
- Joined: 2014/12/20 15:41:59
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 07:22:06
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
kevinwal
Sigh. The point I've been making is that stability releases may well be just as agro as regular ones. Then what? Anyway, you're welcome.
And I'm disagreeing with you. All you are suggesting here is that all code when altered can produce bugs which is true.
Cakewalk has done unscheduled stability releases in the past (looks like there might be one for the 64 bit precision engine issue coming up) with no further issues. If another major issue cropped up as a result from such a patch they would probably be forced to do yet another unscheduled release. Releases concentrating on existing regression and no new features of course will be less agro to the end user. And I already made the point several times about an iterative cycle here and the target. It's not rocket science and has been part of software development for decades.
Yes, you are certainly making your points over and over and over..... Relentless. You, sir, are the one reason I am beginning to stay away from this forum. Incredible.
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 07:56:35
(permalink)
Well, if the original poster is anywhere in this neighborhood, I would like to suggest that you (OP) post each issue you are experiencing as a separate thread, and give us forum folks a chance to help you get things resolved.
I would like to know what issues you are having with Boost11 - one common issue that comes up with it, and others, is that it is meant to be used AFTER a given project has finished recording - it is meant for use in mixing, due to its need for a much larger buffer.
Boost11 and Perfect Space, and plugins that either use a type of processing called 'look ahead processing', or chew up a lot of CPU and and do add large amounts of DPC Latency, and need the ASIO Buffer Size jacked way up in order to have enough 'room' to properly work without audio problems.
When I track/record, I run with an ASIO Buffer Size of either 128 or 64, but when I mix - I change my ASIO Buffer Size to 1024 or 2048, which gives the heavy duty plugins meant for the mixing stage enough buffer to process properly. MANY times, folks discover all of this the hard way - they either track without effects, OR swap out effects like Boost11 with others until they finish the recording of their tracks, and then after they move into mixing and reset the ASIO Buffer Size way up, THEN they will add plugins like Boost11, and then they don't have problems.
Another possibility had been pointed out way early in this thread, was that 32-bit third-party plugins can and do SOMETIMES cause stability issues, when loaded into projects that are running in a 64-bit Sonar. BitBridge and even JBridge do NOT always completely work for some plugins, and IF you see either Bitbridge or JBridge in memory, you DO have one or more 32-bit plugins loaded, and you may need to swap one or all of those out for 64-bit equivalents, OR work in a 32-bit Sonar for that project.
Anyways, lots of folks are getting lots of things done with Sonar, and there are a bunch of folks in these forums that will work with you to help you resolve issues you may be having - IF you engage in the forums by posting each issue in a separate thread. Hang in there with it :)
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 08:39:34
(permalink)
coolbassYes, you are certainly making your points over and over and over..... Relentless.
You, sir, are the one reason I am beginning to stay away from this forum.
Incredible.
Only reason I'm staying is that's I am still wearing a 64 bit precision bullet proof vest and a helmet. Thank you for your contribution to the thread.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 09:45:43
(permalink)
Oh good, the Dok is back again to tell Cakewalk how to develop properly. Indeed, it's like he's never been away.
Keep it up, it's RIVETING stuff. And as I've said before, I think they're all ready to do it your way. They're almost persuaded. Just a few hundred more threads.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 10:13:15
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2015/12/05 11:59:31
From what I've seen a LARGE number of the "shiny new things" are separate downloads/installers from the core program.
Yes there have been some major additions to the program as well but those do NOT happen every month. There was month 1 (Allston) which had most of the new stuff which was a culmination of the previous year's development.
Since then we've had very few major additions to the CORE program.
Upsampling (shouldn't interfere with much unless it's used)
Aux Tracks/Synth recording (huge but had been CONSTANTLY requested for YEARS)
aaand... well IDK but there is probably one more that I'm forgetting
So the idea that the core program is being mangled EVERY month by new features doesn't really hold up.
They do seem to however be doing a lot of under the hood stuff to streamline the code and allow more avenues for future development (this was stated by the Bakers... essentially a lot stuff was impossible due to old, clunky code).
That is likely where these few, relatively minor bugs are coming from but likely better for the program in the long run.
We have gotten at least 3 completely solid releases that were as stable (or more so) than X3. Probably more. That is more than any previous incarnation under the old system where we would get a bunch of half baked releases/patches until we got one useable version (and in the case of X2 that even didn't happen).
We have ON TOP of that gotten quick patches to deal with problems that were affecting a largish section of users.
When we look at the big picture (not getting bogged down in the monthly minutia) this is a perfectly reasonable development/distribution system that overall has greatly improved MOST user's experience.
Nothing is perfect though. Things can always be better and the Bakers should (and are AFAICT) keep trying to make the program a solid as possible but we are most DEFINITELY not worse off than we were before.
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 10:40:14
(permalink)
John T
Oh good, the Dok is back again to tell Cakewalk how to develop properly. Indeed, it's like he's never been away.
Keep it up, it's RIVETING stuff. And as I've said before, I think they're all ready to do it your way. They're almost persuaded. Just a few hundred more threads.
Here we go again... Thank you for your contribution. Any more?
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/12/05 10:53:23
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
ampfixer
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5508
- Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
- Location: Ontario
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 11:48:49
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2015/12/05 12:00:19
I'd like to buy an argument please.
No you wouldn't.
...
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
|
Pragi
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1173
- Joined: 2010/09/19 11:46:59
- Location: Village of the sun
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 12:00:35
(permalink)
It´s all about 1´s and 0 ´s .
|
kitekrazy1
Max Output Level: -40 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3524
- Joined: 2014/08/02 17:52:51
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 12:13:50
(permalink)
Funny how people start these threads are the least involved.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 13:31:14
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby bapu 2015/12/05 16:55:55
Maybe he got it out with his rant 
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
kevinwal
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1066
- Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
- Location: Rogers, AR
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 15:36:36
(permalink)
Zargg71
Maybe he got it out with his rant
Or maybe we drove him away. Edit: Huh. My 500th post. Seems like such a trivial comment to waste on my 500th post. I guess life is like that.
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/12/05 15:49:28
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
|
kevinwal
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1066
- Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
- Location: Rogers, AR
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 15:46:21
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2015/12/07 19:45:39
Doktor Avalanche
John T
Oh good, the Dok is back again to tell Cakewalk how to develop properly. Indeed, it's like he's never been away.
Keep it up, it's RIVETING stuff. And as I've said before, I think they're all ready to do it your way. They're almost persuaded. Just a few hundred more threads.
Here we go again... Thank you for your contribution. Any more?
Well, John T's comment was of a certain brand of humor to be sure, but I'm sure interested in hearing you give it a serious answer, perhaps in a thread you start for that very purpose. Here's a suggested title: "Why I Will Never Stop Posting About Monthly Stability Releases." And since it would be your thread created for the purpose, no one could accuse you of derailing the OP's thread. You could even take off your flak jacket and put a flower in your hair.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 16:00:58
(permalink)
kevinwal
Well, John T's comment was of a certain brand of humor to be sure, but I'm sure interested in hearing you give it a serious answer, perhaps in a thread you start for that very purpose. Here's a suggested title: "Why I Will Never Stop Posting About Monthly Stability Releases." And since it would be your thread created for the purpose, no one could accuse you of derailing the OP's thread. You could even take off your flak jacket and put a flower in your hair.
You might have noticed I was engaging in conversation with you, I guess you are allowed and I'm not. Thank you for engaging in a sensible conversation and avoiding jibes earlier. I'm sorry you could not keep it up, but I will. Thankyou for the above comment anyway.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/12/05 16:12:23
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
kevinwal
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1066
- Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
- Location: Rogers, AR
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 16:12:37
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
kevinwal
Well, John T's comment was of a certain brand of humor to be sure, but I'm sure interested in hearing you give it a serious answer, perhaps in a thread you start for that very purpose. Here's a suggested title: "Why I Will Never Stop Posting About Monthly Stability Releases." And since it would be your thread created for the purpose, no one could accuse you of derailing the OP's thread. You could even take off your flak jacket and put a flower in your hair.
You might have noticed I was engaging in conversation with you, I guess you are allowed and I'm not. Thank you for engaging in a sensible conversation and avoiding jibes earlier. I'm sorry you could not keep it up, but I will. Thankyou for the above comment anyway.
Well, Dok, that wasn't a jibe. I was trying to keep it light-hearted to avoid a flame fest, so I apologize if I failed there. It was a sincere question and an honest suggestion. In such a thread you would control the agenda. And I am honestly curious about your thoughts on the matter. So. There you have it. Edit: Besides, if we geek out on development processes again, no one can complain.
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/12/05 16:26:08
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 16:27:34
(permalink)
1) I'm not asking for monthly, I'm asking for regular. Whatever that is.
2) Such a thread would probably end up being locked within 5 minutes. The standard crowd will simply attempt to start a flame war (look above for evidence), and won't engage in a debate. You won't see too many people siding with my comments, most with similar views will be too frightened to post or don't want agro, such is the current climate here. If they do, it will be most likely outside these forums.
3) I dont see much point anyway.
Thanks but I will pass.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 17:01:53
(permalink)
The real problem is this is a user to user forum. We have no control over how CW does things. What you should do is make an appointment with the CEO and discuss this with him. Here its just noise. If by now someone is still unclear about your points I don't think going another 4 pages will help much.
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: NO MORE Monthly updates for me rant
2015/12/05 18:02:07
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2015/12/07 19:46:41
John
The real problem is this is a user to user forum. We have no control over how CW does things. What you should do is make an appointment with the CEO and discuss this with him. Here its just noise. If by now someone is still unclear about your points I don't think going another 4 pages will help much.
Thankyou once again for your wonderful contribution to the thread... You started it might as well end it eh? Glad that are you are promoting friendly discussions. The fact that I was engaged in a reasonable discussion until you came along is irrelevant obviously.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/12/05 18:17:46
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|