Helpful ReplyLockedNamm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....

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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/23 16:18:57 (permalink)
It looked like the booth was manned - or at least people getting their photos made.  Not to mention Craig on the job.
 
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joden
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/23 16:35:51 (permalink)
Bearing in mind the following posts - I think my original was a bit unfair even if just stirring the possum a bit so I am amending it!
post edited by joden - 2016/01/23 20:31:41
#32
Andrew Rossa
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/23 17:07:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chamlin 2016/01/23 17:24:13
We have indeed sent less staff this year in order to focus on the launch of the new 2016 features. While Gibson is a very big company, Cakewalk is not in comparison and unfortunately we have to focus our resources. This year, we have been hyper-focused on the Rolling Updates and delivering on our promise to customers. This is concentrated effort by all departments, from engineering, to marketing, to support. 

 
The reality is that we reach a small fraction of customers at NAMM compared to other communication mediums (like email, social, web, forum, etc). In addition, NAMM has a more business focus so we do conduct more meetings. We definitely have scaled back in terms of big main stage demos, and multiple workstations. To be honest, we are not the only ones that have done that. I wish we could do it all but sometimes we need to make choices.
 
That being said, customer interaction is very important to us and we did send a couple of staff members to meet with customers and business partners. We do have multiple touch screens (a Surface Pro and Surface Book) along with an Intel Nuc. Our intention was to show more modern, lower footprint machines that can run SONAR. The feedback has been very good at both CES and NAMM. We apologize to anyone who stopped by and was unable to talk to staff. We are readjusting schedules to have better coverage so we can talk to more customers.
 
Thanks for your understanding.
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/23 17:14:54 (permalink)
Classy response Andrew.

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#34
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/23 17:40:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/01/24 06:40:18
I had not been personally concerned about the SONAR exhibit at NAMM.  Having owned a business-to-business marketing consultancy, I know that companies scrutinize every cent.  Maybe they were granted a table in the Gibson both as a favor when they decided not to invest in the show...who knows?
         Am I correct in assuming that NAMM is largely attended by the retail trade?  I also know some music store owners and I've heard them say that they can't make much money selling software or even keyboards and accessories.  The money--for them--seems to be in guitars and live sound support.  Anybody know what percentage of SONAR sales come from retailers?  Even the big-gun online retailers probably don't get more than a few percent of their sales from software.
         FWIW, I see a lot of investment being made in SONAR.  That's either because of Gibson or in spite of Gibson, but either way no-one can disagree with the development resources coming our way.  I can understand how disappointed any SONAR evangelists might be when they feel so strongly about the progress and quality of the product, but remember, we're already customers.  The question is: how many NON-customers will go to NAMM to make a purchase decision?
        By the way, a lot of people have disagreed with my opinions in the past--even though they were paying for my advice--so it won't hurt my feelings if any of you see this differently.  Mine is just a single, quiet voice in the wilderness.

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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/23 17:46:15 (permalink)
I have always loved vi ...

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bitman
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/23 18:43:12 (permalink)
BobF
I have always loved vi ...


Ah! there's one! 
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/23 19:21:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/01/24 06:40:31
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
We have indeed sent less staff this year in order to focus on the launch of the new 2016 features. While Gibson is a very big company, Cakewalk is not in comparison and unfortunately we have to focus our resources. This year, we have been hyper-focused on the Rolling Updates and delivering on our promise to customers. This is concentrated effort by all departments, from engineering, to marketing, to support. 


The reality is that we reach a small fraction of customers at NAMM compared to other communication mediums (like email, social, web, forum, etc). In addition, NAMM has a more business focus so we do conduct more meetings. We definitely have scaled back in terms of big main stage demos, and multiple workstations. To be honest, we are not the only ones that have done that. I wish we could do it all but sometimes we need to make choices.

That being said, customer interaction is very important to us and we did send a couple of staff members to meet with customers and business partners. We do have multiple touch screens (a Surface Pro and Surface Book) along with an Intel Nuc. Our intention was to show more modern, lower footprint machines that can run SONAR. The feedback has been very good at both CES and NAMM. We apologize to anyone who stopped by and was unable to talk to staff. We are readjusting schedules to have better coverage so we can talk to more customers.

Thanks for your understanding.

I for one am very happy with the focus Cakewalk has been giving to Sonar and customer feedback. NAMM is not a customer outreach event, it's a retailer event. I'm happy they're focusing on the product. Rock on Andrew and all the bakers!

Peace!
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#38
SMcNamara
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/23 20:40:27 (permalink)
I went by the CW "booth" (just a table) and the guy there was almost clueless about the product.  "Manchester"?  He says to a guy who had asked about upgrading from X3 to the latest version.  He seemed not to understand what was being asked.  The other time I went by, no one there.
 
Almost forgot.... I then went to the prosonus studio one site. Presentations  all day from 11:00 until 4:30, different presentation every half hour.

 
I went to Presonus' booth both Thursday and today, passing by a couple of times, and there weren't any presentations.  And the demo area is tiny (let's see if this photo will upload)
 
Edit:  I would not -- try this link:  http://imgur.com/eqvV2rt
 

I notice that almost all software vendors have backed off of NAMM.



This seems true.  For example, Toontrack was in a little hole-in-in-wall off one of the lobbies, not very noticeable, and had barely anything on display.  Izotope was also in a cubby-hole lobby location and it was worse:  I went by a few times, and each time the door (no glass in the door) was closed, with a stack of t-shirts outside the door with a handwritten sign saying "free, take one".  No one around.
 
 
post edited by SMcNamara - 2016/01/23 20:56:11

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#39
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 01:01:20 (permalink)
From my convention experience, I'd say that the Presonus footprint on the imgur link is about $5,000. Add flights and accomodations... I get it.
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kicksville
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 03:10:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/01/24 06:41:19
Over the last few years (if not longer), NAMM has gone from a pro audio industry trade show to more of a place to show off shiny doodads to off-the-street consumers. Most of the pro audio folks I work with have pretty much dismissed NAMM in favor of trade shows like InfoComm, so I'm not surprised Cakewalk doesn't feel it's worth a major investment.
 
I think what Andrew was saying, albeit much more diplomatically, is that NAMM is like Guitar Center on a Saturday afternoon.... You'll see a lot of people playing as fast as they can to impress anyone listening, and the newest and best-est products are set up prominently for you to ogle, but there isn't much real business happening on the floor.
#41
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 07:54:17 (permalink)
Frankfurt Musikmesse has also been getting smaller over the years.
 
I will remember with fondness the conversation I had with Brandon Ryan after he'd demoed the Matrix in the Roland booth back then. Aint ever gonna happen again.
 
Then the Tascam days, a few PCs set up around a post, nobody around.
So the OP's Gibson experience is nothing new.
Spend the resources where it makes a difference, I say.
#42
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 10:41:47 (permalink)
I agree with the people who say there is not so much benefit to gain from NAMM exposure. Yet there might be harm from lack of it. After all bakers have really something to brag about this year.
 
Also I would be grateful if CW team members are at MusikMesse this spring, some topics are easier for direct discussion than for a forum.

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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 10:50:20 (permalink)
Trade fairs are not what they used to be, but it still makes sense to have a viable presence at them.  Costs are always a corporate issue and how the marketing $$ are spent.  But it requires spending $$ to make $$.   Sort of like the thoughts of many club owners - a band is considered a necessisary evil, if they don't have one then there are no customers.

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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 10:54:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/01/25 15:40:47
I for one could not care less how many staff Cakewalk don't send to a trade show. Great response from Andrew - much more valuable to concentrate on the software.

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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 11:07:53 (permalink)
Everyone I know who goes to NAMM for real business spends most of their time in smoky back rooms making deals. They are not on the floor demonstrating shiny do-dads. I am fairly certain that the internet takes care of supplying most of the information that music dealers want.
 
In fact my friend when he worked for KRK was back at the hotel most of the time meeting dealers.  I barely saw him once the whole time I was at NAMM about 7 years ago.  It seems to be more of a time to run up a bar bill and buy dinners you would never buy with your own credit card !
 
As a pro-sumer walking around the floor I was way more excited about NAMM than my salesmen friends.
 
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Garry Stubbs
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 17:04:36 (permalink)
Paul P
 
Very lonely Sonar at NAMM   (@ 6:15)
 
Speaking of Craig...
 
 


That 'Frost Blue' 345 monotone sure looks white to me...


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jbow
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 20:01:13 (permalink)
Perhaps next year, if Cakewalk cannot spare the people, you could ask for a few volunteers who are well versed and experienced and who have the time. Pay their transportation, room, and board and let them promote Sonar. I'm sure there are two or three people here who would not only be capable but would enjoy it. Of course you could give them a lifetime membership and NO, I do not qualify.
IDK, just an idea.
Or surely you could spare Willy and someone or maybe best, if you can't cut loose... Karl Rose. Karl should be REALLY good at something like this, or Scott Garrigus but Craig would be the one. People know Craig.
I'd do it for free but you would probably lose customers, lol.
 
I hate to hear this. What about CES? Does Cakewalk have better representation there?
 
I don't know the inner workings, deadlines, or finances and am NOT complaining. Just offering ideas. I trust that Cakewalk is doing the best they can do. I DO believe that they would be there if they could. I am sure there is more to the story. I am happy with Sonar and I believe many others would benefit from it.
If I am meddling in something that is none of my business, excuse me. I truly am a fan!
 
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#48
Paul P
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 20:42:50 (permalink)
The Kiosk Project
That 'Frost Blue' 345 monotone sure looks white to me...


@ 11:16 you can see the blue tint more clearly.
 
After further review, I don't believe that's Sonar in the background, looks like something else entirely.
 

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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/24 20:53:04 (permalink)
Given Gibson's unfortunate history with Opcode, it is indeed worrisome that they've given so little thought or attention to Sonar at the show. I certainly hope this isn't a precursor to letting Cakewalk go the way of Opcode.
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JonD
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 10:27:22 (permalink)
kenny@kennycroes.com
Given Gibson's unfortunate history with Opcode, it is indeed worrisome that they've given so little thought or attention to Sonar at the show. I certainly hope this isn't a precursor to letting Cakewalk go the way of Opcode.


This is an unbelievable s--t--r--e--t--c--h.  Putting aside the NAMM booth, there is absolutely nothing in Gibson's behavior towards Sonar in the past year that would support your statement.  In fact, I'd say the opposite was true.

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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 10:44:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/01/25 17:36:20
Perhaps not being there reflects the reality of software vs hardware. I can see the value of looking at and touching a guitar, synth, mixer etc. but software? Probably better to have demos. I would assume that most sales for software are on line now.

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#52
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 11:25:01 (permalink)
With Social Media... and the immediacy of modern Internet based marketing... the impact of trade-shows has been diminished.
 
Sweetwater's Gearfest is a well attended... well run event that IMO rivals NAMM.
There were excellent presentations in the lecture halls... (including Craig's)
But most of the booths were kinda dead (including Gibson, Fender, etc).

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#53
Beepster
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 12:34:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jbow 2016/01/27 09:31:08
Actually... I didn't realize how much NAMM charged the vendors.
 
If they are charging $5000 for a little cubby then I'm assuming a proper area is going to be quite a bit more... and that would not include all the other expenses incurred.
 
So to have a proper presence having to spend 1/4 - 1/2 the yearly salary of a full time employee (who could be coding instead) just to get on the floor is pretty obnoxious for a smallish company to pay. When worked booths at such shows we'd drop maybe a few hundred bucks for the weekend AND we made it back and more because we were actually selling stuff from the booth (as well as promoting other events and the shop).
 
Even that wasn't totally worth it sometimes.
 
So who runs NAMM? This seems like someone(s) is gouging for extra profit instead of it being the industry just getting together to co-mingle, promote and learn (with some sort of pro organizer and the convention center making a reasonable profit for their part but not deterring actual industry entities from participating).
 
The vendors are the damned "pull". If they get excluded due to exorbitant fees then it deteriorates the quality of the event.
 
Then you are only left with the McDonald's and Pizza Huts of the industry and everyone already knows about them and what they serve up.
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brconflict
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 17:17:39 (permalink)
In response to the OP. This was the same experience I had at Summer 'NAMM 2015 in Nashville. Gibson totally overshadowed Cakewalk, IMHO. If you didn't know better, you'd think Sonar was used to demo the Gibson Audio monitors, yes. Sonar was merely incidental, not even a gemstone in the booth. This is sad to hear and deflating.

Brian
 
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 19:22:51 (permalink)
 
It'll be interesting to hear what Craig has to say on this subject, once he gets back.
 

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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 19:33:11 (permalink)
FakeItTillUmakeIt
From my convention experience, I'd say that the Presonus footprint on the imgur link is about $5,000. Add flights and accomodations... I get it.




Image Line doesn't do NAMM anymore because of cost. Who goes anyway unless it is in your back yard.

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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 20:25:48 (permalink)
I DO think this is unfortunate.  There is plenty of room in the Gibson area and I think it is important to do all they can to expand the reach of Sonar.  NAMM has always had a large consumer/prosumer audience... we all would get tickets and go... and as Sonar is such an amazing product these days, it would behoove the bakers to be there, lookin' good.
 
NAMM booths ARE very expensive.  I rented one long time ago and the whole thing sucked me dry.  However, Gibson already had the fairly large space and I wish Cake had gotten a bite of it.

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#58
stevec
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 21:00:39 (permalink)
After all the comments back and forth I have to wonder....   six months from now will it have mattered? 
 

SteveC
https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163
 
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#59
Unknowen
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... 2016/01/25 21:22:27 (permalink)
Hi, just passing by.... The more I think about CW and Gibson... and reading this stuff...  
I'm thinking "WKRP" Tax write off.
 
TTFN

Hay look,
Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
#60
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