scottpatrickbass
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Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
This year's display was even worse tha last year, no touch screen or any second display, none of the extra prochannels installed, basically a quick default install with a joke of a project loaded. FIVE times up there and the sales person was no where to be found.. I ended up demoing it for a few people myself. One of which had been waiting for 30mins without anyone to help him. Sonar to any other current DAW like MS Word 2016 is to vi or notepad. Well it doesn't matter that it's the best product on the market with the most features and updates, the best overall customer service and support if at the biggest trade show of the year in ALL of the industry, its not taken care off to be promoted correctly. Several people I heard comment that Gibson doesn't care at all about it and only uses it to sell their over priced Gibsoo monitor's. For all us users that are loyal and love this product this is pretty unnerving. I would never normally say something this drastic but the entire marketing team from the VP down to management should be replaced asap to not further decline the interest in sonar. If you want users to switch to some thing inferior you're off to a good start.
Gibson Inc, please get a touchscreen monitor, load all add-on purchasable options, get a good proectt loaded and make sure 2 people man the station, and do it tomorrow. Don't let the product down or sell it to a company that actually cares about it. Last year's service was a joke but this just sad. Don't let us down, please...
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Tom Riggs
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 04:59:52
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That's disappointing to hear.
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Skyline_UK
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 05:13:11
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Tom Riggs
That's disappointing to hear.
Yes, extremely. 
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cowboydan
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 05:22:30
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scottpatrickbass
This year's display was even worse tha last year, no touch screen or any second display, none of the extra prochannels installed, basically a quick default install with a joke of a project loaded. FIVE times up there and the sales person was no where to be found.. I ended up demoing it for a few people myself. One of which had been waiting for 30mins without anyone to help him. Sonar to any other current DAW like MS Word 2016 is to vi or notepad. Well it doesn't matter that it's the best product on the market with the most features and updates, the best overall customer service and support if at the biggest trade show of the year in ALL of the industry, its not taken care off to be promoted correctly. Several people I heard comment that Gibson doesn't care at all about it and only uses it to sell their over priced Gibsoo monitor's. For all us users that are loyal and love this product this is pretty unnerving. I would never normally say something this drastic but the entire marketing team from the VP down to management should be replaced asap to not further decline the interest in sonar. If you want users to switch to some thing inferior you're off to a good start.
Gibson Inc, please get a touchscreen monitor, load all add-on purchasable options, get a good proectt loaded and make sure 2 people man the station, and do it tomorrow. Don't let the product down or sell it to a company that actually cares about it. Last year's service was a joke but this just sad. Don't let us down, please...
I believe we are looking at this in the wrong context. Gibson is the owner of Cakewalk and as far as the software goes, it has gotten a lot better. In saying that i think that Cakewalk should be the ones building up and running the Namm stand and have Cakewalk staff at the stand at all times. It should be paid for by Gibson, but I think that Gibson doesn't have any idea as to how Sonar works and therefore cannot really build a stand for this. That should be Cakewalks job to do this. Maybe next year it will be different. At least I hope so. PR is the most important part of any company. Let this be a wake-up call. Danny
post edited by cowboydan - 2016/01/23 05:36:43
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mettelus
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 05:52:56
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I wonder if the blizzard detained CW reps, but having a product unmanned is not good for PR to be sure.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 05:58:16
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it's been repeated numerous times that while gibson brands owns cakewalk, they don't "interfere" in the operation... so why cakewalk would choose not to do namm is anyone's guess... so let's speculate wildly until someone official does or doesn't chip in...
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Paul P
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 10:06:51
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I was under the impression that Cakewalk was always at NAMM. What's changed ?
I've also expressed disappointment in Gibson for acting as if Cakewalk doesn't exist. It's almost as though they don't want to share the limelight with anyone else, even their own divisions.
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scottpatrickbass
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 10:09:17
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cowboydan
scottpatrickbass
This year's display was even worse tha last year, no touch screen or any second display, none of the extra prochannels installed, basically a quick default install with a joke of a project loaded. FIVE times up there and the sales person was no where to be found.. I ended up demoing it for a few people myself. One of which had been waiting for 30mins without anyone to help him. Sonar to any other current DAW like MS Word 2016 is to vi or notepad. Well it doesn't matter that it's the best product on the market with the most features and updates, the best overall customer service and support if at the biggest trade show of the year in ALL of the industry, its not taken care off to be promoted correctly. Several people I heard comment that Gibson doesn't care at all about it and only uses it to sell their over priced Gibsoo monitor's. For all us users that are loyal and love this product this is pretty unnerving. I would never normally say something this drastic but the entire marketing team from the VP down to management should be replaced asap to not further decline the interest in sonar. If you want users to switch to some thing inferior you're off to a good start.
Gibson Inc, please get a touchscreen monitor, load all add-on purchasable options, get a good proectt loaded and make sure 2 people man the station, and do it tomorrow. Don't let the product down or sell it to a company that actually cares about it. Last year's service was a joke but this just sad. Don't let us down, please...
I believe we are looking at this in the wrong context. Gibson is the owner of Cakewalk and as far as the software goes, it has gotten a lot better.
In saying that i think that Cakewalk should be the ones building up and running the Namm stand and have Cakewalk staff at the stand at all times. It should be paid for by Gibson, but I think that Gibson doesn't have any idea as to how Sonar works and therefore cannot really build a stand for this. That should be Cakewalks job to do this.
Maybe next year it will be different. At least I hope so. PR is the most important part of any company.
Let this be a wake-up call.
Danny
For clarification I am well aware of said acquisition, and in context Cakewalk as a brand owned by Gibson has dedicated staff. Said staff (re marteking and/or department) would indeed be the ones to carry the weight that as you say to be "building up the brand". But when I say Gibson I say the company as a whole including all Gibson brands, which includes the aforementioned department. Picture an 6ft folding table with on PC, a haswell based surface a couple infograms and a pc with a 32 tn non-touch monitor inside the Gibson area. No excuse. No excuse.
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JonD
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 10:25:30
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scottpatrickbass
.... Several people I heard comment that Gibson doesn't care at all about it and only uses it to sell their over priced Gibsoo monitor's. For all us users that are loyal and love this product this is pretty unnerving. I would never normally say something this drastic but the entire marketing team from the VP down to management should be replaced asap to not further decline the interest in sonar....
I can see why you'd be disappointed, but... really? I think Gibson has already shown it's commitment to Cakewalk by what they've done in the past year. Suggesting that a bunch of people be fired because of a lackluster trade show presentation is maybe going a bit overboard. Again, I get why you're upset. It's more than baffling to me why a company of Gibson's size/stature had no one at the booth. That suggests maybe they weren't fully set up yet... Obviously, I don't know. In any case, here's hoping the upper management sees your comments and takes them to heart (the presentation part, not the firing part -lol).
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Billy Buck
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 10:35:45
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Wow, that is quite shocking! Not even one competent person promoting SONAR @ Winter NAMM 2016? That is quite sad indeed. I would think if there was only one music software/hardware trade show to have an active presence at it would be once a year @ Winter NAMM.
Cheers,
Billy Buck
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mettelus
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 11:06:19
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☄ Helpfulby scottpatrickbass 2016/01/23 12:16:30
JonD
I think Gibson has already shown it's commitment to Cakewalk by what they've done in the past year.
I am confused by this comment... it almost implies that Gibson is doing Cakewalk's work for them. Regardless, anyone would realize "you only get one chance to make a first impression" is huge with marketing. How many first-time buyers hang around waiting on a representative and end up buying?
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JonD
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 11:22:02
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mettelus
JonD
I think Gibson has already shown it's commitment to Cakewalk by what they've done in the past year.
I am confused by this comment... it almost implies that Gibson is doing Cakewalk's work for them...
Taken in the context of the OP's post, how is it confusing? I think "commitment to Cakewalk" implies exactly what I meant -- and is surely clear to any member of this forum who's been here more than five minutes.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 11:34:38
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JonDI think Gibson has already shown it's commitment to Cakewalk by what they've done in the past year.
is this "they" cakewalk or gibson? if it's gibson, what have they done? (sorry to sound dumb)
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JonD
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 11:40:42
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pwalpwal
JonDI think Gibson has already shown it's commitment to Cakewalk by what they've done in the past year.
is this "they" cakewalk or gibson? if it's gibson, what have they done? (sorry to sound dumb)
I meant Gibson, but I'm not sure why that matters. Let me put it this way. The OP is blaming Gibson, not Cakewalk, for the lack of presence at NAMM. It is in this context that my comments were made. Whether or not you believe Gibson does or doesn't do anything for Cakewalk is really a separate discussion. Hope that's a bit more clear.
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scottpatrickbass
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 11:44:50
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JonD, if you are a moderator using a standard account I completely understand and respect your calm and mitigating comments. If not I again would like to clarify that staff I am referring to would be VP/director/management of the Cakewalk business unit, not the governing entity of Gibsons team. This isnt just some small event, this is THE event that sets the tone for rest of the year. And for someone like a Cakewalk reseller who had say 6-7 stores to walk away frustrated with Cakewalk here is a huge problem. So I stand by my statement of replacement.
I will qualify it with this. Gibson has share holders, and as such their number one priority is to make a profit for the corporation, in scenarios for which a company is incorporated in the United States, this is actually a law... So spending 7 figures on this trade show and to not have an extra monitor which has touch which could be obtained for less than $500, to not have a single extra salaried employee which only costs food/flight/hotel is inexcusable and to not take the extra 30mins to setup the purchasable add-on products and use a large project has absolutely no excuse. If I didn't care about Sonar in wouldn't have taken the time to talk about this in the forums, but I do - truly. The one guy that does the Boz Labs products had a better setup at his 4ft table up stuffed away in the back corner upstairs, and he was always there and demonstrated everything as requested to everyone that came by when I was up there. So yes, the marketing/sales team should be replaced as this is the second year with the same situation. I would be happy to here any scenario in which the presentation of Sonar @ ,NAMM this year is acceptable and isn't actually costing Gibson Corp profits in the big picture and these people did their jobs.
Perception is reality, and if the perception is Gibson as a corpration doesn't care about selling Sonar from a vendor perspective, this will trickle down to the user base whether we want it to or not. The fall of Novell the technology company is the perfect example of this, never is it quality, its marketing which fosters perception, which decides the fate of products and in turn companies.
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musicjohnnie
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 11:51:49
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Good day,
I think that in the very beginning when cake announced the buy out, they stated that Gibson was not going to interfere with the running of Cake. So, in that being stated, the responsibility sits in Cake's court. Maybe cake would consider having a West coast group of users they have faith in to be at a booth at NAMM. Wasn't Craig at NAMM this year. I haven't heard from him on this. Or are you just remaining quiet.🔉
MJ
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scottpatrickbass
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 11:53:40
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Also I've been a registered user for 12 years, just never on the forums which anyone from the company can see the tons of cash I've spent supporting this product, upgrading and paying every year a producer edition user, and just because I first posted today in no way shape or form dictates my reading them over the years. This was just something I'm honestly so worried about that I felt I needed to.
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scottpatrickbass
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 12:00:56
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musicjohnnie
Good day,
I think that in the very beginning when cake announced the buy out, they stated that Gibson was not going to interfere with the running of Cake. So, in that being stated, the responsibility sits in Cake's court. Maybe cake would consider having a West coast group of users they have faith in to be at a booth at NAMM. Wasn't Craig at NAMM this year. I haven't heard from him on this. Or are you just remaining quiet.🔉
MJ
100% agree with everything except having people work for free to fill the void. Why should any of us work for free to help someone else make money? I know that's a double standard for me to say it as that's what I did yesterday in a nutshell, but that was one day, me - one person. And remember that there are people that work and get paid there, that this is their job. I would suggest a breakout session with volunteers may be more appropriate?
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musicjohnnie
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 12:04:54
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SPB,
I know what you mean. I have been a user since midiman. Or was it some other product. I haven't had much problem with any of the installs from cake, just interface issues. All good now, just hoping cake can carry on. I think Gibson has some plans there not letting out. I'm surprised that tascam has not been joined at the hip with Sonar. But that's their decision, not ours. So, keep rocking
MJ
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musicjohnnie
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 12:08:07
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The free part I was kinda hoping cake would maybe kick down some stuff to make it appealing. Lol
MJ
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FakeItTillUmakeIt
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 12:36:45
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not good [edit] that is not to say CW intentionally did this, as is somewhat being speculated here. Anderton said he'd be there, so perhaps it is the storm (my speculation)...
post edited by FakeItTillUmakeIt - 2016/01/23 14:13:46
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JonD
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 12:42:51
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scottpatrickbass
JonD, if you are a moderator using a standard account I completely understand and respect your calm and mitigating comments...
Sorry, not a moderator. I guess my calm and mitigating comments have no place here.  Scott, I get where you're coming from, really. If you reread my entire first post, you'll see that I said I'm just as baffled at their unmanned booth at NAMM. But if I understood you correctly, it wasn't just for CW, there wasn't anyone for Gibson either, correct? If that's the case, then it seems to me it's not so much a CW issue than it is a (larger) Gibson issue. Or did I misunderstand your original post?
post edited by JonD - 2016/01/23 12:58:52
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chamlin
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 13:38:05
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☄ Helpfulby Joey Adams [Cakewalk] 2016/01/25 17:43:34
I've spent many years going to NAMM (not for the last few years though) and Cakewalk historically had a full on booth presence. And not just in a line of barely partitioned vendors in the "low rent" areas, a major presentation booth, video screens, demos, many staff, etc. I still wear my Sonar t-shirts picked up every year.
Obviously, somewhere in the food chain, a decision was made to not have a substantial presence this year. That decision could have been based on any number of factors to which we are not privy, and those factors could be anything from Cakewalk (not Gibson) assessing that NAMM wouldn't provided sufficient bang for the buck, to all the key people who would best represent the product had family emergencies.
There's no point in speculating. If Cakewalk wants to share why, they will. My (it's just a) view is that for a store owner (I'm not one, but know some), the last freaking place I'd want to get a demo experience of Sonar is at NAMM. Loud and relentless total sensory and information overload. Hard to concentrate. And even if I saw a demo and could ask questions, a DAW like Sonar, Cubase, etc. is so complex, the demo would barely touch the surface.
Demo aside, as a user and fan, I would like to connect with the bakers at NAMM and see them have a presence. But I'm sure as heck not upset with them! :)
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Beepster
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 14:15:16
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I would like to hear from other users who were there or are there today. As noted, and this is only based on the vids I've seen of Cake at NAMM and the word of other users, they generally go balls out (Cake that is).
So perhaps yesterday was a bad day. Maybe something happened and the kids weren't there in full force.
Perhaps today they are rockin' it.
But yeah... this is definitely NOT the time for Cake to be getting shy. They need to be screaming from the rooftops about everything that's been done the past couple years to crush the couple years previous.
Gibson are marketing genie-arses so this news is quite surprising and the Bakers are insanely enthusiastic buggers themselves who I think would show up barefooted and half naked to show off their wares.
Sumthin' strange is up (if this is troof).
Maybe they heard Bapu wasn't coming yesterday so stayed in their hotel rooms.
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scottfa
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 14:55:24
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Well, I was curious about the cakewalk presence so I watched a couple of Gibson NAMM videos On YouTube by third party sellers. In one, while the two guitars dudes talked to a Gibson guitar guy you could see the monitor with Sonar on it in the background. All by itself for the plus 10 minutes i watched all the lovely new guitars being demoed. Nary a soul by the monitor. I don't care whose responsibility it is, somebody should be doing something!
i think maybe we get the picture here at Sonar is exciting and on the move. Perhaps that is not the case really. The people slaving away on the code deserve better.
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chamlin
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 14:58:03
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scottfa
The people slaving away on the code deserve better.
They got better. They didn't have to suffer through 4 days of answering the same questions, literally 1,000 + times. :)
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scottfa
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 15:01:21
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☄ Helpfulby jbow 2016/01/24 19:58:06
Almost forgot.... I then went to the prosonus studio one site. Presentations all day from 11:00 until 4:30, different presentation every half hour.
Again, the Sonar coders deserve better.
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pharohoknaughty
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 15:07:00
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I notice that almost all software vendors have backed off of NAMM.
A few still have nice booths, but most are gone or are just very small displays shared with other vendors. For instance Celemony used to have a huge showy booth 10 years ago, not any more.
I figured there must be some other show besides NAMM for software vendors these days.
The display at the Gibson room last year (2015) had a copy of Sonar running, but it was mostly to show off the Les Paul speakers. I asked to talk to a Cakewalk rep but it just made the Gibson salesmen mad at me. I thought it meant the end of Sonar, but I was totally wrong, it seems to be very healthy with these monthly updates in spite of not being a NAMM fixture.
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chamlin
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 15:14:23
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Yes, software is just very difficult to do there, and in my view, not so essential for established products. A new innovative software would benefit, and I can see how Presonus would have a presence, excellent upstart that it is, because it's still getting traction.
I'm curious about the Cubase presence this year, since we're talkin' about such things.
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Paul P
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Re: Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed....
2016/01/23 15:24:20
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Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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