mudgel


Keep at it James.
We'll have your fallen body to use as a bridge when we all finally cross to that great big 64 bit land on the other side.

Just kiddin'.
I'm just glad I'm not using your collection of plugins nor am I using SONAR to the depth and extent that you are.

LOL! Thanks, man!

It isn't TOO bad if I were to just focus on the most important plugins and stick with one DAW... Sonar x64, for example. Unfortunately, I have to use Cubase on some projects due to some serious workflow issues I have with Sonar for certain types of projects. If Cakewalk were to address the workflow issues (brush up on the editing workflow for large projects, incorporate critical time-saving tools like ripple editing, and completely clean up and overhaul the automation) I would kick Cubase right in its bloated ass, right out the door. :)

Jose7822


OIC,

Unfortunately, I have no tips to offer at the moment. 
 
Right now you have more experience with any of the Bridges than me, so I guess I'll just wish you luck finding the bad apples (or right combination of plugins).

Thanks, Jose... All will be well. Once I break things down and put things in the right mental and literal folders, I'll be running like a mad man on x64.

It's like I'm flying a jet that is about to hit Mach 1, and all sorts of extraneous parts are flying off as I hit the sound barrier... what will be left will be a sleek streak of lightning across the sky.... with me in the pilot's seat. :)

I may have to be more flexible about my new workflow... I may have to think differently about how each tool fits in my master plan... but I will prevail. :)

(How's that for drama?)

Very funny, Jose. I think my chance to give up was several pages ago. I'm into the insanity zone.

But on the other hand, it's mainly dealing with the other apps and non-critical plugins outside of Sonar that is driving me crazy... so for anyone who is Sonar-centric, they have a lot of good things to look forward to when they move to x64.

eratu >> At least I know opening and/or viewing the Omnisphere interface has something to do with it. Maybe this is a really weird Omnisphere x64 + NVIDIA issue.

James, firstly thanks for all your updates - man I really feel for you, as nothing could be worse than not getting the confidence you (and all of us) are so desperately striving for !

To comment your statement above - I don't think it is a specific NVIDIA issue, as I am running a Matrox graphics card here (ExtIO Remote Graphics Unit).  Looking at the moment that it could be a pure Omnisphere issue.

Although I don't have such a high-powered system as you do, if there's anyway I can help, please let me know.

eratu


However, I did hear back from CamelAudio and they said they are testing with BitBridge... HOWEVER, they do not have immediate plans to move to x64 yet!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

That sucks.  Though, the plugin I use from them works just fine with Bitbridge.
 
 
 

Very cool, will check that out, thanks!

BTW, QUICK UPDATE:

New drivers for Lynx, more testing:

I am doing quite well at 32 sample latency in Sonar x64 -- no dropouts so far today, WITH AERO ON OR OFF. :) Crossing fingers it stays that way...

However, in Cubase, at 32 sample latency, I was still getting a couple of dropouts with AERO ON... but with AERO OFF, Cubase is performing like a champ...

I love this DAW! :) I mean, seriously, folks, I'm running *real* projects (albeit not mega-projects) and I'm playing live on top of that -- AT 32 sample latency! If it weren't for the damn issues I'm having with some plugins, I'd say this is DAW HEAVEN right now.

In Cubase, I'm scrolling around like a mad man while the session is playing back at 32 sample latency, zooming in/out on MIDI, opening/closing VSTi windows several times a second, and NOTHING, NOTHING will cause a dropout with AERO OFF. Very similar story with Sonar, only I seem to be able to leave AERO ON for Sonar as well.

If that's not incredible, I don't know what is. I couldn't get anywhere NEAR this level of performance on my dual-Xeon (8-core) DAW that is still running Win XP. Not even NEAR this.

It's just some of these cursed plugins... if only I could live without them!

Update:

For the record, I just finished my first project in Cubase 5.1 x64 on this DAW. Yes, yes, I know, this is supposed to be about Sonar for the most part, and I've also finished a project with Sonar as well. Nothing remarkable to report about Sonar and the project other than what I've already reported in this thread here and there. Worked well overall, no new surprises, some minor strangeness here and there as I refine how I use the plugins, JBridge, etc... but overall well.

However, I have Cubase on here too and I've become intimately familiar with how it works in x64 land. And I have to say, I am soooooooooo disappointed.

First, as you already know from my previous reports here and/or in other threads, Steinberg's VST Bridge is a crying shame at this point. I could not use it stably. AT ALL. So I turned to JBridge which saved the day. Thank you once again to Joao!

However, I still had plenty of problems. Strange sync issues with some plugins (Addictive Drums acted up for the first time), a little minor weirdness with some patches in Kontakt 4 x64, particularly when I enabled/disabled a plugin with latency... overall some weird $h!t, folks, and I'm now really annoyed with Steinberg for the 1,000,001st time. I managed to get Sylenth making some strange stuttering sounds that I've never heard before, except in the movie The Matrix, and not in a good way. At least it didn't crash. But it was so annoying, that I think I either have to stick with 99% native x64 plugins within Cubase x64 or I have to move back to Cubase x86. Ahhhhhhhhhh! I barely made it through the project before punching a hole in the monitor.

What this means, I don't know yet. I have to continue to re-evaluate my overall workflow. This battle is far from over, my friends.

Damn, that really sucks bro.

I too wished Cakewalk would do something about workflow in Sonar tomorrow.  But if anything is gonna happen, it will be HOPEFULLY happen in Sonar 9.

I know.

I wanted to talk to you today, but I've been very busy.  We can talk for sure tomorrow though, so I'll give ya a call.

We definitely need to do something about this and I hope other members join the cause.

Anyways, I have to go now.  TTYL!

Awesome. This is much appreciated! We'll be posting about a combined effort soon, I believe.

UPDATE:

In part due to this thread, a number of us have joined together in a community effort to request major workflow improvements in Sonar -- please see this thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1888422

AndyW


New issue....REAKTOR 5 which I purchased today doesn't work properly...has several issues and reinstalling doesn't seem to help.  Basically it fails to authorize even though the service center shows it as authorized...I still get the gripe screen at startup.  I am assuming it is a win 7/permissions issue.  I have tried running as administrator and UAC is disabled.  Any advice appreciated.  Very frustrating but I sent an email to NI's support.  I was anticipating an easy install since GR3 and 4 authorized so seemlessly.  Anyone else have this problem with installing Reaktor 5 in win 7 64?

Try installing and running it from the Administartor account.
And even then still use  "Run As Administrator".

Been a while since my last update --

Finally have my Alphatrack up and running without a hitch... there were minor issues getting it to work with the x86 version of Sonar in Win 7 x64. But there is a workaround on the Frontier website, so now I have the Alphatrack working perfectly in Sonar 8.5.2 x64 and x86 as well as Cubase 5.1.1 x64 and x86.

I've installed almost all my software. More than enough to have been working quite a bit on this machine and moving projects over. Some of it has been smooth. And some of it, well.... not so smooth.

The most recent installation was the iLok and PLAY libraries. I have to say, I am NOT happy at all about PLAY and iLok. Installation was a "D-" and the PLAY software itself is surprisingly (and disappointingly) simplistic. It's clearly a freshman effort when you compare it to the finely-tuned and mature Kontakt 4. I really wish that EastWest had stuck it out with NI. Alas, we're stuck with PLAY, I guess.

Anyway, I had issues getting iLok to work properly in Win 7 x64 with the two main apps I'm using -- Sonar 8.5.2 and Cubase 5.1.1. Keep in mind that I have both the x64 and x86 versions installed of the DAW apps, plus many of the plugins I use are also installed as both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. I think that might be part of the problem, but who knows? I wonder how many developers are really testing both x86 and x64 on the same machine? I have opted to NOT be an x64 purist since I still have plugin issues with some of my favorite 32-bit plugins. The price I pay in frustration is worth it to be able to use my favorite 32-bit plugins.

So basically, I have one foot in the 64-bit world and one foot in the 32-bit world. I have found that the 32-bit versions of the DAW apps and plugins appear to be a little more stable for me so far in many cases. Yes, you read that correctly. I have had more problems with x64 than I could possibly catalog in this thread. It has been exhausting.

I had my first crash of Win 7 x64 with iLok/PLAY. Yay! I had my first corrupt file with Cubase (since I installed iLok BTW). I've had numerous minor stability issues in Sonar and Cubase, and the various bridges I use (BitBridge, VST Bridge and JBridge) have all had their special moments of headaches.

I've found workarounds here and there, but seriously, this whole 64-bit adventure has been a giant headache, when you factor in all the apps, plugins and two freaking dongles.

Here are some of my biggest disappointments:

#1 Cubase's VST Bridge is a load of useless crap.

#2 Way too many 32-bit plugins have issues with the bridges, forcing me to install the 32-bit versions of Sonar and Cubase as well. Highly, highly disappointed. JBridge has helped a lot, but I still have minor problems with some plugins. My hand has been forced, so now I use both versions of both DAW apps.

#3 Installation woes -- why can't developers do installers right? Why the hell can't programmers test the installer as much as they do the rest of the app? I have had numerous install issues from many, many vendors and I am sick and tired of poor or unintuitive installers. iLok and PLAY are the most recent, so they are getting the brunt of my annoyance, but they are not the only ones.

#4 Stability isn't all that it's been cracked up to be on Win 7 x64... and this is due to the various plugins most likely. I am NOT impressed with the state of x64 so far. I felt much more "stable" on Win XP Pro. This obviously is a function of the plugins I use, so your mileage may vary considerably. But in my case, I'm dealing with this stability issue quite regularly. It's not a hardware issue (I've been over that with a fine-toothed comb) and I'm learning the predictable patterns and discovering some plugins just plain SUCK in terms of stability. Like right now I'm tracking down an issue/conflict between the asinine iLok drivers used by PLAY and the e-licensor drivers used by Cubase for the two dongles on this system. I had my first official, deathly CRASH due to iLok... lovely. I am not impressed. Sorry.

Besides all that, the DAW itself is insanely powerful and I feel there are few limits so far for actual projects. Both Sonar and Cubase have issues, and I have endless minor (and occasional major) plugin issues. This has resulted in me not using some plugins in x64 at all, even with a bridge. But when things are working, they work beautifully... and the performance is delicious.

I'm still experimenting, testing, learning, refining, but all in all, I would caution ANYONE who is considering moving a complex DAW config to x64 to take your time and plan wisely. I think it is worth it (at least I keep telling myself that in a crazy psychological loop), but it has come at quite a cost of my time to get this system, with these plugins and apps, working as well as it currently does. Again, if you have a large collection of plugins, be very careful in your plans for x64.

If you want to be an x64 purist -- that is, stick just to plugins ad apps that are x64 and are known to have been tested together -- or even more of a purist and stick mainly to Sonar x64, your results might be very much better than mine.

As for me, I wonder if I made the right decision, and find I have to talk myself into sticking with x64.

If I knew what I know now, I can tell you emphatically, I would have waited. At least until beat-down geeks like me had already been through the process and smoothed out all the rough spots. :)

Jose7822


Please don't take it as me rubbing this in on you. 

Oh I know plenty well what you're doing, you big, gloating 64-bit fiend! You got me into this mess... just don't forget, I know where you live.... ;)

But seriously, my friend, I agree, the 64-bit purist approach is the direction that will benefit the most. I *almost* feel like I've wasted some real money on all this stuff. *Almost*. Yesterday (or was it the day before, time is growing blurry for me), I was in the middle of a new composition, and CRASH! BOOM! BAM! A real, hard-core system crash. I lost my work. For the first time in... well, I don't know how long. Years, maybe. I had lost not only all the instrument configs I had just done, but a section of music I had written. Fortunately, the section of music I had written wasn't very inspired, and I could remember well enough to re-create all the instrument configs, patches and routings. Very, very disappointing, but I was lucky and was back on my feet fairly quickly.

This type of 64-bit goofiness is what's been going on. Courtesy of these damn plugins and drivers. Apparently, some other people are having trouble with their systems if they have Cubase/e-licensor + PLAY/iLok + Kontakt on the same system. A subtle driver conflict, supposedly, but I don't know yet. No real answers. Solution? Save more often, save fast, and pray to the 64-bit driver gods! One guy got fed up and de-installed all his PLAY and iLok stuff and he was back in business. <shhhhheeeeeesh!>

So no, I'm not thrilled right now. I don't know what to do but "adjust" to a 64-bit landscape that is not as stable and compatible as the old tried and trusted 32-bit world. That, or give up the gobs of memory I've gained with x64.... But no! My projects are easily swelling past 4GB RAM so how can I go back now? I'm kinda stuck.

Again, I'm certain it's just the combination of plugins and DAW apps. This particular machine has Sonar (32-bit and 64-bit), Cubase (32-bit and 64-bit), Reaper (64-bit), etc., etc., etc. It has plugins with e-licensor (synchrosoft) like Arturia plugins, plus iLok PLAY stuff. Man, I'm glad I don't have a UAD on this thing or I'd go insane!

If I just stick with Sonar x64 and a few chosen plugins, things seem pretty solid. If I stick with Cubase x64 and a few chosen plugins (and NO 32-bit plugins... FORGET VST Bridge) then I'm pretty solid. A little JBridge here and there to fill the gaps... things are still okay... but then something strange creeps up with some misbehaving plugin. An interface disappears or doesn't open properly. A window does something strange. A dreaded motorboating sound when adjusting a plugin parameter. A weird glitch and a patch doesn't reload properly... a tempo-synched plugin doesn't lock up in the same spot... etc., etc., etc. And worst of all, a CRASH!

You know the most solid DAW app on this computer? It's going to hurt to say this....

Reaper 3 x64.

It's true. I seem to be able to run more plugins from different developers with fewer problems -- including 32-bit plugins -- in Reaper x64, than I can in either Sonar x64 or Cubase x64 right now. I realize that's just my combination of plugins, but that's been a SHOCK. Not trying to push anyone in any direction here... I would prefer to spend all my time in Sonar x64 if possible. (Workflow, workflow, workflow, hint hint!) But this is not what I was expecting.

On top of that, since I've moved to x64, I have NEVER had problems opening files... until now. I've had issues in both Sonar x64 and Cubase x64. Why? Plugin issues, yet again. A minor problem was resolved by Noel (thank you, sir!), and the 8.5.2 update solved it permanently (I hope) so I've generally found the culprits... (Kontakt 4 in one case!, various 32-bit plugins in other cases.) In Cubase, I even had a corrupt file for the first time... EVER. Yes, a corrupt file... unrecoverable. Never seen that in my life from Cubase. And that was after I installed iLok 64-bit drivers. :(

Anyway, I will forge ahead. I don't think I want to install any more software on this machine, though. I have a more-or-less okay system after all this time, as long as I remember what little strange things to maneuver around. And if I keep things almost entirely to 64-bit, this machine has insane power, so I guess that's a good thing. But I don't think I'll even put Ableton Live on here. I consider myself lucky that all my NI plugins work (well, more or less... I did have one issue with Kontakt 4, but I think that's resolved).

At this point, if I were doing this all over again, I don't think I'd bother with 64-bit (for my specific config) for now. I'd wait at LEAST 6-9 more months... maybe a year. 

Yes, this is contrary to what a lot of cutting-edge people are saying, and I wish I could agree with them. And yes, this is contrary to what I've even said a few times too. :)

But if I HAD to do it all over again, I'd consider doing the "purist" approach and sticking 100% to 64-bit. Or maybe 95% to 64-bit. And maybe I'd set up one DAW without iLok and another without synchrosoft to play it safe.

In fact, I'm somewhat tempted to gut this whole machine and start over with the purist approach. I just can't bear the idea of having to install this stuff again. Ahhhhhhhh!

I don't know... Early on I felt a little down about this whole thing... and now I feel a little down again. I'm writing this post to vent a little and also to sincerely warn people to take these steps very carefully if they have a non-purist approach. Make sure you can go back to your prior config in case you run into problems! Fortunately, I have a trusty bullet-proof Win XP-based DAW when the going gets tough, so I can continue to work. Otherwise, I'd have pulled my hair out weeks ago.

One last word about Bridges -- there are four bitbridges out there -- Sonar's BitBridge, Steinberg's VST Bridge, JBridge and Reaper's Bridge. I've mentioned previously that Steinberg's VST Bridge is next to useless, I don't even bother any more, seriously. JBridge is good at filling in gaps, and I recommend everyone support JBridge and just buy it... then there's Sonar's BitBridge, which is pretty good overall, but I still have issues with it here and there... and then there's Reaper's Bridge, which seems surprisingly good (at least for my plugins) so far. But not a single one of them is a perfect, 100% solution.

But here's the word of warning about bridges: Just because a particular bridge can initially LOAD a plugin doesn't mean that the plugin will work 100% the way it is supposed to for the entire session. Just becuase you can get an expected sound out of plugin when you load it up the first time and play around with it, it does't mean that you will have a 100% reliable, working plugin for an entire session that goes long into the night. I've seen this over and over now. Everything from subtle issues with patches saving or loading properly to weird issues with parameters and automation to tempo sync issues, to mini-motor-boating, to strange start-up glitches at the first measure, etc. Not to mention flat out compatibility issues with other plugins that can take hours (days, weeks) to figure out!

If it weren't for the hard work of people like Noel at Cakewalk and Joao of JBridge and Justin at Reaper, these subtle issues would make x64 bridges completely unusable. As it is, there are still far more issues than I ever expected. The culprits are probably most often plugin developers themselves, and trust me, I've been in touch with more than a few plugin developers and the situation is not likely to change anytime soon.

Bottom line: x64 is really not nearly as far along as some people would like to make it out to be. Those people who have a lot of plugins from different vendors and have a successful, 100% stable system must be from the future, because there's no way I can see my meticulously-configured system, using all its plugins, lasting into a late-night session at this point. After all this effort, I just can't believe someone is *successfully* running hour-after-hour day-in-day-out with a diverse multi-copy-protected legit x64 system with a lot of 32-bit plugins from lots of vendors in bridges. I just don't see it. A subset of that? Yes, I can believe that. A purist? Yes, I can believe that. But not a mixed system like this one.

I hate to say it, but unless you have a very specific, fully-tested combination of plugins that you have personally verified, you are REALLY asking for trouble moving to 64-bit right now. He who goes here, tread carefully in the land of the 64-bit demons!

The question is, do you have the TIME to deal with it? In my case, I've spent far too much of that precious commodity... I justify the time on this thread simply because this really would be horrible if I didn't at least warn people and try to make something good out of this.

Oh well, enough for now... gotta get back to work, make some money. I'll feel better soon. :)

John


Eratu I have not had any of the problems you list. Then I don't have anything that requires an iLock system either. I have not crashed Sonar in 64 bits nor have I found any of the plugins I use install badly. What I find amazing is how Vista 64 knows to place 32 bit files in the 32 bit folder and 64 bit files in the 64 bit folder. I have yet to find anything more difficult with using 64 bits then its 32 bit counterpart.

I have plugins from CW, Voxengo, Nugen, PSP, Kjaerhus, Breebaart, Native Istruments. GPO, Flux, Arturia, Izotope, Yellow Tools,  and many more. I even have CW's FX 3 Sound Stage working in 64 bits Sonar and its a 32 bit DX plugin.

I don't know how we have such a very different experience with 64 bits. I still have my 32 bit install of Vista on another HD that I don't use. I am thinking I will format it one of these days and use it for something else. 

Hi John,

Always great to hear your point of view! I think the issue is my combination of plugins/apps/drivers and probably also the way I use the system. I know of a number of people that are giving up for now on x64 or even specifically Win 7 x64 due to similar problems that I'm having. I'm not 100% sure from your post, but am I reading correctly that you are running Vista x64? That could be one variable right there. Also, I'm not sure if you're a Cubase x64 user as well, so there's another fairly large variable. If I could get rid of Cubase I would, but due to workflow issues you and I have discussed before, I'm stuck with using it along side Sonar.

But it all depends on an individual's config. I have a colleague that had to uninstall all his PLAY libraries to get his Cubase x64 working well again -- not sure if that's isolated to his rig, but it solved his problems on Win 7. I know another person who was so frustrated with Win 7 x64 and the 32-bit plugin issues that he reverted back to Vista of all things. Of course I hear from people like you and Jose and others that have had a different experience with x64, and I'm genuinely happy and frankly a little bit jealous of you. :) Fortunately, I'm not alone on this, and have found a few people in a similar boat.

So I think we're dealing with issues with plugins, apps and drivers. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm running both Sonar and Cubase (and Reaper) with both 64-bit and 32-bit versions installed of Sonar and Cubase, plus iLok, so I have two stinkin' dongles. iLok alone has caused several crashes already. I have the latest version of the driver installed, and that appears to work much better, but I certainly don't trust this machine like I do my Win XP DAW. I could go on and on and on (and have already gone on) with the number of minor and major issues I've run into.

BTW, with your Arturia plugins, are you running the latest dongle-protected versions or the older versions that didn't use eLicenser/synchosoft? The prior versions seemed to actually work better (although I had some annoying issues in Sonar 7 even with the older Arturia plugins in XP, motorboating, etc.), but I like the new features of the dongle-protected versions. However, the new Arturia plugins have caused me problems in the bitbridges! Ain't it grand? I have them mostly working now, but not without strange behavior sometimes, and I just don't have a lot of confidence in them, and have now stopped using them entirely in x64. I only run them in the 32-bit versions of Sonar and Cubase now and they work as they should. I wish I had the time to be a beta-tester and as it stands right now, I already am one by default, to a bunch of companies, without the benefits of the title. :)

I have had issues with many plugins like that -- very subtle things even with stable beasts like Omnisphere. For example, in Omnisphere x64 in Sonar x64 on Win 7 x64, I still haven't been able to knock out some weird interface issues I get sometimes... when the interface opens I often get a glitch, or when the interface is already open during playback I sometimes get dropouts. No too often, but keep the interface closed, and it's generally fine. It's annoying but not show-stopping... I've just come to accept it as reality. Stack all these types of minor issues up and throw in a couple of bigger issues like my first flat out corrupted file in Cubase and you can see why this x64 DAW doesn't give me much confidence. Couple that with installation issues and headaches like trying to figure out how to get Alphatrack installed for Sonar x86 on Win 7 x64. Sure, there's a workaround, but why couldn't it work without me having to hunt it down and type in some cryptic command line or registry instruction?

Finally, the last part of this equation is probably the way we actually use our DAWs... it's entirely possible that the WAY I'm using the DAW has something to do with why my experience has been unsatisfying here. I'll give one example that Jose and I were discussing the other day. When I'm writing a song, I'll often have Kontakt open and I'll be playing back the whole project as I'm auditioning different sounds inside Kontakt. I'll be using patches from EWQL Symphonic Orchestra, for example, loading and tweaking patches on the fly, as the project plays back. I'll literally be stopping, starting, back and forth, scrubbing, playing, etc... all while I'm simultaneously loading new patches into Kontakt. On my XP DAW I can do this all day, all night and not get a single snap, pop or crackle, and it just *works* -- smooth as butter in both Sonar and Cubase. Life is sweet. I trust that combination (Sonar + Cubase + Kontakt + Win XP) and it has been a dream come true in some ways.

However, Sonar x64 + Cubase x64 + Kontakt x64 + Win 7 x64 + PLAY x64 has been a combination that has shattered that dream of stability for me... at least for now. Perhaps in 6 months with a couple of patches under their belts, it will be fine... but right now I CANNOT do what I used to do. I had my first big problem with Kontakt 4 x64 trying to do what I did before, and I get constant snap crackle pop from PLAY (when I load a patch during playback), not to mention my first crashes from that idiotic iLok. The system is no where near as stable and there's no way I can shuffle back and forth so freely without fear of a glitch, dropout, lost patch config (yes, I've even had that), or flat out crash. Once I merely clicked on the tempo track of Cubase while the project was playing and I was loading a sample, for example, with Kontakt and PLAY open, and BOOOOOOOM! Gone! A delight to say the least.

Even adjusting a parameter or loading a patch during playback inside PLAY will cause little glitches. Not anywhere near as smooth as before when I dealt with Kontakt on XP.

Okay, so I have now learned that I'm no longer allowed to do those things. However, I could do things like that before. So in a sense I'm learning many minor unwritten little workarounds and have to change how I work. If I have someone over here in my studio, do you think I'd risk auditioning a bunch of different samples while the project plays back? No way. I'd stop the project, then change the patch, the restart the project. Annoying, but then if I have tempo-synched plugin that has a problem locking back up to the right spot (I've had issues with bridged versions of FabFilter, Camel Audio and even NI Reaktor sometimes not doing this 100% correctly) then it sounds different! So, to do it right, I have to often restart playback FROM THE BEGINNING of the project. Workflow killer right there. So, someone might say that's a "reasonable" workaround. But on the other hand, I had been able to do it robustly before with the 32-bit versions of everything in XP, and can no longer do it.

There are many, many examples of that in my situation. I'm sure if I never USED Sonar and Cubase the way I do, these issues wouldn't come up. And we can mostly blame this all on the plugin and driver developers perhaps but it doesn't change the fact that my day-in-day-out work with both Sonar x64 and Cubase x64 on Win 7 x64 is no where near as robust as the 32-bit versions on Win 7, not to mention those are a far cry from the 32-bit versions running on XP, I hate to say.

Oh well... :)

The good news is that there are some alternatives I'm looking into. I had a great conversation with Jose and he gave me some new ideas to think about. Thanks again to my friend Jose for his superb input.

I think my stability will go way up if I can isolate the "naughty" plugins or at least off-load some of them to another machine. To that end, I'm currently looking into the following:

Vienna Ensemble Pro - http://vsl.co.at/en/65/71/1738/1356.vsl

MIDI over Lan: http://www.musiclab.com/products/rpl_info.htm

ipMIDI: http://nerds.de/en/ipmidi.html

AudioPort Universal: http://audioimpressions.c...s/audioport-universal/

...and some others.

I'm also going to experiment a little more with JBridge to see how stable I can get it to work doing a reverse bridge (i.e. allowing a 32-bit DAW to bridge to a 32-bit or even 64-bit plugin). JBridge is the only bridge that can do that, and I will be testing out that capability to see if I can take advantage of the stabililty of the 32-bit DAW app (and its superior compatibility with my 32-bit plugin library) but then also make use of the extra memory of Win 7 x64, by launching Kontakt, Omnisphere and PLAY in separate processes. Could be the best solution for me.... if it works.

Anyway, the journey continues, and for those that have a successful, totally reliable x64 config, count yourself very lucky! And don't tamper with your configs! :)

(EDITED for typos)