The difference is subtle, but if you can hear the audio over a decent system, sometimes when it switches between the two options the difference is REALLY obvious.   I'd be interested in your take on the comparison...

Hey Craig,


I'm listening on laptop speakers... but to me... it sounds like the stereo image collapse a bit when Console Emu is engaged.  Sounds a little less wide and a little more fat with Console Emu on.

I'm listening on desktop speakers with sub-woofer. I really like what I'm hearing as far as the difference is concerned. I,too, am getting the enhanced top end sound and clarity during the on/off toggling in the video. I have been playing around with the CE in X2 on my setup, position,drive,tolerance,etc. I just am not getting the results that Craig is on his comparison. My results have been way less dramatic, for use of a better word. Craig is getting a very noticeable change that I am just not getting. The songs of mine that are similar to the sounds of his track are not getting the same results. That's why I wish he would give us more info per track and buss concerning placement, and actual settings to obtain the overall results. I am liking what I hear on my tracks with the CE but I need a tad more of it. It just is not as strong a change as what he demonstrates in his video. What I am hearing on his video is exactly the sound I am looking for. I know that it is supposed to be a subtle difference, I just wish there was a little bigger difference and let me control how much to use. Right now, I'm floundering around not getting what I want. There has to be something wrong in my placement or settings. Craig's tracks sound great with the CE engaged and my CE settings are not getting me there. I'll keep playing with it and hope that someone can assist some of us in how to get the most out of the CE. Maybe some more info about it from the bakers would help. Could someone possibly do a video and post on YouTube the proper use. I like this plug a lot if I could just get a little more out of it. Again, I feel it is something I'm doing wrong. 

Hands down, the Console Emulator is the one thing I would not want to give up from X2. I like the subtle warmth and depth the mixes have now. I will pay more attention to the possible narrowing effect Jim mentioned. 

mike_mccue

jb101

Tests like this often tell you more about the people being tested (and the people doing the testing) than they do about the equiptment used, in my experience. 

Yes, I agree... anyone that takes a test while watching suggestions in big white letters either doesn't care or doesn't know how the big white letters makes the test seem more like entertainment and less like an actual comparison.



I've done a lot of ABX tests... they have taught me a whole bunch about what I think I think when I think I think I am hearing something.







It has taught me that the power of suggestion is a remarkable and effective way to promote an idea.



best regards,
mike

@Mike - Crossed wires, I was disagreeing with you.  - I was talking about ABX testing, and the people who suggest them..
 
As far as I know Craig wasn't doing this as a test, but just to share a great track and how he made it.  When asked, he kindly did the A B recording for people.
 
I am greatfull.  He does a lot to help people here, rather than insult and play childish games..
 
I also trust Craig's ears, as I know they're not cloth ones.  If he says he likes the Console emulation, then that carries some weight with me.
In fact, I knew that it was good as I have X2 Producer, and have ears to hear.
 
Thanks again, Craig.
 
@FBB - I hope your post wasn't aimed at me as well.  I hate the thought that people would think I agreed with McQ.  He only agreed with me because he didn't understand my post.
 
This can be a problem when someone changes what they see to fit in with their preconceptions - an edit filter, if ou will.
 

FastBikerBoy

@FBB - I hope your post wasn't aimed at me as well.  I hate the thought that people would think I agreed with McQ.  He only agreed with me because he didn't understand my post.

No definitely not. I don't notice you posting negative drivel every other post.

Every other post?  I must be missing half of his contribution, then.. 

BluffinMad


Hi there, I may not have been clear I apologise, what I meant was have them on whilst mixing but not enabled, then A/B them from time to time, it was a technique introduced on the last live stream Cakewalk did, and they are right. It just means if you mix without them enabled and then turn them on for an A/B you will notice more so than if you were mixing with them on from the start. And by latency issues I was really meaning when recording. Sorry for the confusion :) Cheers  

jb101

BluffinMad


Cheers for the A/B comparison, great job on the song by the way, sounds great! The effect is subtle I have found when using it myself, so trying to hear the effect on youtube after the video has been compressed makes it even more subtle, but I recommend people use it, like you say mix with them on but turned off because they do effect latency then A/B them every now and then. Again, great job man!  

@ bluffinmad  - Not sure I understand "Mix with them on, but turned off."  Could you explain?

I think the idea is that you mix through them rather than put them on after mixing.  I think this is what Craig is suggesting.  Perhaps he could clarify.  Not sure how latency will affect mixing, either. 

Please explain.

Thanks for replying.
 
I'm pretty sure that's not what they said in the Webinar.  I'll go back and have another look.
 
I think they said to have them turned on from the beginning of the mixing process, and to "Mix through" the console emulators, otherwise it won't work well.  Much like mixing through a large format desk, you will play to it's strengths, as it were.  Eq-ing or processing through one console will be different than another.
 
I'll just watch the webinar now, and get back.

things like this tend to make me wonder.... I'm 59 years old, was engineer in studios thruout the 70's and 80's and a looong time guitar player.

Over Sony MDR7506 cans at a decent volume....   I really can't hear the difference.  Especially picking which might be what and nothing more than a small tweak of a knob on a master buss might do.

oh well...    ;-(

My view on the console emulator is very much what the op refers to. Strapping it on as an effect after the fact is not that useful. Mixing into it seems to make mixing easier. My jury is still out as to whether I'm imagining that, but I'm leaning towards thinking I'm not. 

It must be a very subtle effect because I could not hear the difference. I played the video 10 times through   
and could not detect it. I don't even know what to look for. This must be one of those 64 bit is better than 32 bit kind of things.... I can not detect the difference in that either.

I know it does not mean that there is no difference and I am not saying that at all. My ears are not bad I just can't hear it. 

Craig thanks for posting and starting the thread and the tip about grouping all the console emulators is a good one. Now I have more questions then answers and I think it is time for me to run my own test concerning The Console Emulation. I just have been preoccupied with TH2.

Jeff I read your first line and LOL because I see it the same you do. Now I did not subject the vid to careful analysis but I couldn't tell any difference. 

  Also it was playing through my computer speakers. They are not average but quite good for what they are. None the less, I did not run it through my monitors. So I figured that it was due to the setup and the fact that it was streaming audio going through a Realtec audio chip. 

I am not saying it didn't do anything just I couldn't hear a difference. 

jb101

BluffinMad


Hi there, I may not have been clear I apologise, what I meant was have them on whilst mixing but not enabled, then A/B them from time to time, it was a technique introduced on the last live stream Cakewalk did, and they are right. It just means if you mix without them enabled and then turn them on for an A/B you will notice more so than if you were mixing with them on from the start. And by latency issues I was really meaning when recording. Sorry for the confusion :) Cheers  

jb101

BluffinMad


Cheers for the A/B comparison, great job on the song by the way, sounds great! The effect is subtle I have found when using it myself, so trying to hear the effect on youtube after the video has been compressed makes it even more subtle, but I recommend people use it, like you say mix with them on but turned off because they do effect latency then A/B them every now and then. Again, great job man!  

@ bluffinmad  - Not sure I understand "Mix with them on, but turned off."  Could you explain?

I think the idea is that you mix through them rather than put them on after mixing.  I think this is what Craig is suggesting.  Perhaps he could clarify.  Not sure how latency will affect mixing, either. 

Please explain.
 
 
I had a quick look at the Webinar.  Brandon and Seth tell you to mix through the Console Emulation (i.e. Have them turned on).  What they do say is that if you quick group and turn it off and on then you will really notice the difference when you turn it back on.
 
It is, as Crag says in this thread, to mix with the Console Emulator on, not mix and then turn it on.  You need to hear the effect of the Console Emulation to mix to it.  Watch it again.
 
You are the same chap who has authored the new XI Mix Video, aren't you?..

Yes thats right I am, the 'X2 Mix Clinic', my memory of the webinar must be slightly blurry, I stand corrected. On hindsight however,  I still think the other method would work just as well, to mix with the CE on every channel and bus, but not have them enabled, then enable them every now and again for an A/B comparison, there really isn't much difference between the two methods. I also don't think you necessarily need to hear the CE in order to mix to it, as you suggest. The difference is so subtle that the CE could quite easily be added afterwards. The best way really IMO is to have it in the background, be it enabled through your mix or not is irrelevant, but mix as you would normally and really forget that its there, then A/B after you have made substantial changes. These two 'methods' that we are talking about really is about personal preference, I didnt want to put the impression that this is or isn't what Graig or anyone else was suggesting, its merely my input. 


Cheers

Also - I forget to mention that the CE plugs appear to absorb/filter some of the mid-range out, while adding a touch of low end and a bit of high sparkle.

Very subtle - but definitely there.

My favorite is the "N" console.

Yes - the CE plugs work "more" when their needle is pushed; so having a hotter track will yield more console treatment.

The Sonar documentation recommends making the CE plug the FIRST in the ProChannel chain; they don't explain why.

And yes - the effect is cumulative - so it is best to start with the plugs on, and then mix, rather than adding them as a last step.

Also it was playing through my computer speakers. They are not average but quite good for what they are. None the less, I did not run it through my monitors. So I figured that it was due to the setup and the fact that it was streaming audio going through a Realtec audio chip. I am not saying it didn't do anything just I couldn't hear a difference.

 
In all fairness, Craig did mention that listening thru studio monitors is the best way to hear the difference.   I haven't listened myself, but have found this thread very interesting...   (and at time entertaining)
 
Now, if only I could remember to turn those dang CEs on when starting a project, or maybe creating a template with them turned on...