New Song Done with X2 - Uses Console Emulator on Every Channel - NOW WITH A/B COMPARISON

This is the first song I've done entirely in X2 (the video was done in Vegas Pro):

"When the Grid Goes Down"

I had a mix pretty much set up, then decided to add the Console Emulator modules. It didn't sound particularly good - sort of tinny. Out of curiosity I stripped the mix down to start over, and took Cakewalk's advice to insert the Console Emulators first, then mix through them. That did the trick. The effect on each track was very subtle, but it really added up over the course of the mix. When I used the QuickGroup to bypass all the Console Emulators then bring them back in, there was a major difference. When bypassed, the sound was, for a lack of a better term, more "lifeless" and lacked a degree of "sparkle." 

The one caution is that it really seems you need to be careful not to distort within the ProChannel, and do proper gain-staging. If there's any distortion going on, it sounds like the Console Emulators emphasizes it. I used to not worry to much if the little ProChannel peak lights went on every now and then, but I now I make sure they never go on. The cleaner the signal going into the Console Emulator, the better the effect sounds to me.

So, now I'm pretty much convinced that starting off a rock mix with the Console Emulators in place is a good idea. I haven't tried it with dance, though, where I suspect it might be overkill...we'll see. Also, the Console Emulators really fit well with the Quick Grouping, as you can change all the controls for all modules simultaneously.

Anyway, the bottom line is for the Console Emulators, I went from "not interested" to "worth using." If you listen to the song, that extra kind of sparkle you're hearing is the Console Emulators.

I hope y'all find this info helpful.

I would be interested in hearing a bit of the mix A/B'd with console emulation on and off. Some really great sounds in there. 

Cool track Craig.
I'm very interested to hear more, and yes an A/B would be great.  A lot of my top end hearing has gone so I'm also curious as to what effects I might be able to appreciate with the emulators, psycho-acoustic and otherwise!
 
- I infer from what you describe that you put an emulator on every track?
- The same 'type' on each?
- What settings did you find worked best with each type of track?
 
Thanks
John

Been watching Revolution maybe?
Enjoyed the track Craig and interested to experiment a bit based on your comments.

Cheers.

will Sonar still give us updates if the grid goes down ???????. Nice song Craig sounded good to my ears.

Roy

Nice job, Craig!

Anxious to get X2 installed so I can try all the new goodies.

I hear you about TV. Don't have it; don't want it. Too many more important things to do.

@#2:
I don't think need to put them first in the chain, I think it's more first in the process, so you are making your mix decisions with the emulation ON. Makes sense, you don't add a console at the end of your mix process, it's already there when you start.

tbosco


Craig-  This may be a really dumb question.... but you mention PC "PEAK LIGHT"..... where is that?  ( I see a light that slowly comes and goes in my channel strip, but I thought that was the saturation module working indicator.

If people didn't have questions, I'd be out of a job
 
The best way to see what's going on is to open the Pro Channel. Each module has a little "LED" to the immediate left of the power on/off button. You want to make sure these don't glow red.

Cheers for the A/B comparison, great job on the song by the way, sounds great! The effect is subtle I have found when using it myself, so trying to hear the effect on youtube after the video has been compressed makes it even more subtle, but I recommend people use it, like you say mix with them on but turned off because they do effect latency then A/B them every now and then. Again, great job man!  

The effect is remarkable! It's tiny but so present! Good A/B-ing

FWIW I always swith it on first. I even leave it on when designing sounds or while tracking or whatever. It's on by default, nothing else is.

I had a play with the NLS a while back and that sounded to me like it added quite a lot of effect to the sound when cranked up. I may be wrong tho. But I don't want to hear the console, just feel it!

Thnaks for the tip Craig.  I remember seeing that light now.

Which CE did you use-  S, N, or A?  I can hear the subtle difference-  a tad more open with a hint of sparkle to my ears.

mike_mccue

Anderton


Yes, we DO take requests

I did a quick video with an excerpt of "When the Grid Goes Down" highlighting an A/B comparison with and without the Console Emulator plug-in.

The difference is subtle, but if you can hear the audio over a decent system, sometimes when it switches between the two options the difference is REALLY obvious.

I'd be interested in your take on the comparison...
 

Hi Craig,
How about posting 2 audio files with matching start points so we can all use FooBar 2000 to actually do a true blind ABX comparison?

That way we will not see the big white letters that suggest that we should be hearing some sort of change or difference.




Then, when someone states they prefer one effect over the other, they can compare that to actual statistics provided by the ABX test results which will demonstrate whether they have actually heard any difference with which to base a preference.

The point being some folks may be able to hear the difference 10 out of 10 times AND have a preference while other folks may able to hear the difference 0 out of 10 times AND also have a preference.



I'd like to know, for myself, if I actually have the ability to, in this circumstance, have a preference and so I would appreciate the opportunity to be able do a true blind ABX test before I thought about whether I preferred one mix over the other.


Foobar 2000 ABX comparison makes this easy.


Maybe you can post FLAC or .wavs... or at least 320kbs mp3?



best regards,
mike

Couldn't you just do this with one of your own tracks?

I think you would get results like the ones you mention regardless of what equiptment was used. One track recorded
in a top studio and another in a home studio. Some people have good ears, others have cloth ears. Tests like this often tell you more about the people being tested (and the people doing the testing) than they do about the equiptment used, in my experience.

jb101

Tests like this often tell you more about the people being tested (and the people doing the testing) than they do about the equiptment used, in my experience. 

Yes, I agree... anyone that takes a test while watching suggestions in big white letters either doesn't care or doesn't know how the big white letters makes the test seem more like entertainment and less like an actual comparison.



I've done a lot of ABX tests... they have taught me a whole bunch about what I think I think when I think I think I am hearing something.







It has taught me that the power of suggestion is a remarkable and effective way to promote an idea.



best regards,
mike

The A/B comparison is very subtle.  It sounds a bit louder with the CE engaged, which often makes people think that it sounds better.  To me, the CE is more like an analog summing amplifier than anything else.  Personally, I mix through a Mackie mixer going into an Alesis Masterlink to get that analog quality of a summing amplifier.  However, if you bounce to tracks or export your mixes sans an analog mixer, then the CEs might provide that missing element.  I'm curious, does anyone else see it that way?

I do use the CEs on stereo busses within a mix and at the end of a vocal chain.  If it gives even a slight edge, I'm happy with it.

I think we should go back to arguing about 193kbs vs 256kbs mp3 encoding, because frankly, I could tell the difference.

Console Emulation? Not so much. How many bugs were introduced into SONAR so that we could have this "feature"?


Count me among the non-believers.


Oh, and Craig? Great song! Thanks for putting up the vid with the comparison. Very informative.

Like all things, guys, you should do your own tests before making up your minds about something like this.