Don't fear the Reaper! (Where's my cowbell?)

Seriously, innovation and competition always benefit the customer. Seen all the cell phones in use at the bus stop recently?

As Yep mentioned, I started with Music Creator for next to nothing and have been hooked ever since up to 5.2PE. I'm still planning to give Reaper a test drive because I've recently started collaborating with a couple of friends who aren't ready, willing, or able to plunk down $400 dollars or more just to be able to keep up with my system.

I applaud any attempt to level the playing field. Anyone else notice how AT&T is busily buying up all of the competitors it was forced to sell off not so long ago. Let's see what that does to your phone bill, etc.

Michael
(semi clothed - putting on flame suit)

Original: quibb

. . . No way I'm even considering Reaper now (not that I would have anyway....).

And the quartet played on as the ship sank out of sight.

ORIGINAL: yarimurray

Original: quibb

. . . No way I'm even considering Reaper now (not that I would have anyway....).

And the quartet played on as the ship sank out of sight.

Regardless..are you REALLY calling SONAR a sinking ship? If so, there would never be enough exclamation points to put after an LOL for a response to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....bah




PS - I have tried Reaper and I will again, but so far it has not been a competitor for my studio. I'm quite sure it will, some day. Right now it is SONAR, Logic (yes, I have a Mac too) or Samplitude for me! And yes, i do this professionally (not full time).

ORIGINAL: manthe

I think it is worth noting that, though it is commendable that the author makes frequent changes to his code, that is really just an indication of the 'readiness' of the application. In other words, Reaper is a great app, but it has a long way to go before it can truly contend with apps like SONAR/Samplitude/Nuendo/Cubase/etc on every level.
The bottom line is, comparing Reaper to Cakewalk/Steinberg/Magix/Apple/Digidesign/etc. is apples to oranges!

In the end, I know Reaper will be another fine addition to the world of constantly updated/changed, full-featured DAW platforms. Despite this sort of 'drive-by marketing' that certain fan-boys feel obligated to do, Reaper is making a good name for itself!

I definitely agree with you. It's not ready for primetime in many ways. Some people are using it now, but most of those people are using it for pretty simple tasks. For example, I can't use it as my main DAW now because the freeze function is not ready yet, and VST's still have problems.

But, my hope is that once it gets to the level of functionality and stability of Sonar and Cubase, it will continue to be updated and refined the way it is now, responding quickly to feedback and implementing features that are requested.

As for saying this whole thread is a sham, how do you figure? Since people who have been here and posting for a long time are joining in the discussion and pointing out good things about Reaper? I'm not recommending everyone switch to it today, but I am saying you should keep an eye on it.

Don't feed the trolls.

industry WHAT? You mean like the "industry standard app" that unlike Sonar or REAPER doesn't even let you see the contents of events as you move them? THAT sort of involvement? no thank you

You laugh at this. Ever hear of VST or WDM or DirectX how about MIDI. You think that they just happened. Do have any understanding how they came about?
For WDM K/S CW had a lot of input in how it was implemented The same for DirectX. Steinberg got VST going as well as ASIO. This was possible because these developers have clout in this industry. The have worked hard to get these things done. As did CW then Twelve Tone do a lot for MIDI.

Your lack of respect for those that have given you these tools that you take for granted shows a great amount of simple stupidity on your part.

You stand here proclaiming the greatness of something that is only in existents because of the efforts of these people and their companies.

You REAP the benefits of their work yet belittle them.

Not a smart thing to do.

Best
John

So I go over to the Reaper forum, and I see this:

Sonic_Hero

Wow you guys sure know how to run Reaper into the ground don't you? You're discrediting Reaper big time spending so much energy creating fire fights on competing forums.

Now you're busted and everyonce can see how childish you are.

Total Morons.

So violence begets violence, to turn a phrase. Nobody wins with this type of childish bickering and one-upmanship.

ORIGINAL: jamester



Sonar is an excellent sequencer, and Reaper is too. So is Cubase, Logic, AcidPro 6, Live, Nuendo etc... The more the merrier, potential users should try as many out as they can and make their own decision as to which they feel most comfortable with. Period.

Seconded, we never had it so good!

Last year around this time, things were mostly grim

Now Sonar 6 is an ex-vegas users' wet dream, so is reaper. On the MIDI front apps like EXT are kicking major ass for peanuts. Plugins are coming out fast and furious, finally after all this time beginning to adress the needs of professionals. Steinberg looks like theyre about to shake off the last bits of relic code and start looking to the future. CPU's are POWERFUL and cheap

I will say this though: Let's all be careful about throwing around phrases like "cult" and "kool-aid drinkers" and accusing user-fanbases of having a clique mentality. Fact is that's been leveled against this forum many times in the past, as well as at the folks over at the Cubase forum, the Live forum etc etc...

I remember reading numerous "Spread the word" strategies in numerous Reaper forum threads, and then countless threads in the Sonar forum and other DAW forums from Reaper enthusiasts, just like this one, albeit this new one was apparently a mistake.

I've never seen a tactical discussion like that in the Sonar forum.

And then, with the Reaper warriors then rushing in to argue for their Reaper, it all seems a bit orchestrated, still. I can't help the impression it gives.

I don't mean to feed anything...

but this thread points to something that's been suggested in the past: a whole separate forum for these 'my DAW is bigger than your DAW' threads. It can be called "DAW wars" or "DAW-heads" or something, and all the fanboys can slug it out over there.

all the ProTools vs. Sonar threads can be moved over there.
all the Cubase vs. Sonar threads can be moved over there.
all the Reaper-is-going-to-kill-everyone-else (obviously why they named it that way) threads can move over there.

then we can focus this forum on what it's supposed to be about: Sonar, making it work best on your machine, tips, techniques, etc.

ORIGINAL: Ron Kuper

Don't feed the trolls.

Take note fellow Reaper users, that's good advice. I've learned quite awhile back, that the majority of Sonar users in this forum, to put it frankly are just ignorant. There's no use in trying to have a constructive conversation in this forum...it just doesn't happen. It's not even worth wasting your breath over. I've tried in the past of having constructive conversations and it's always a bunch of Sonar fan boys who wear blinders and claim that Sonar is perfect....it must be you. I've tried having constructive conversations about some of the Sonar lacking funcitionality and feature short comings in the past in this forum. A good example would be a midi Input Quantize feature....you get a few users who understand the functionality, but then you get bombarded by a parathera of neanderthalls who can't take their blinders off for 2 seconds to understand or see how a simple feature could benefit Sonar. I pointed out how the fader grouping ins Sonar did not function properly and I got a bunch of negative replies who told me, it was my lack of understanding....where I then had to prove to them with supporting information of how the fader grouping does not work properly. I tried to discuss the need for ASIO DM in Sonar for working in a professional recording studio environment and I got a bunch of work arounds that I was already aware of instead.

Reaper has been developed by a developer who originally listened to a small group of users who have worked in proffessional recording studio environments from the ground up. Reaper got more and more users everyday due to listening to that original small group and over a short period of time others have been attracted to the professional functioning features and that small group has grown into a much larger group where the developer still listens to user feedback and takes the time to comment on feature requests to better understand them and then almost immediately developes them. For example Reaper had Rewire slave AND host capabilities 2 weeks after getting the SDK from Propellerheads. If you even mention Rewire Slave functionality in the Sonar forums it falls on deaf ears, even after they've had the SDK for numerous years. I mean...who could want to Rewire Sonar to another host thru a rewire device support??? Sonar is perfect in every aspect right??? Why would you ever have the need to use it in that configuration??? You can Rewire Project 5 TO Sonar...that's all you'll ever need. Of course I'm being faceous....but that's the mentality here.

Let these users be in peace, we don't need those types of users cluttering up the Reaper forums and nothing we say will make them open their eyes. Common sense and open mindedness is something you can not teach. We have open discussions about user suggested features in the Reaper forums and these discussions always tend to be received with open minded contributions in understanding the need and not immediately shot down with negativity. Let the negativity and closed minded behavior remain over here. This is the perfect customer and audience for Cakewalk products. They are easily dazzled by bullet point features like 64 bit floating point audio engines which does nothing for your workflow, but sounds good on paper where the users are too busy trying to figure out if that audio engine actually sounds better than 32 bit float. These are the features and discussions that Sonar users like to have, where they're too busy arguing over if you can actually tell if the feature really benefitted you or not. It's marketing propaganda at it's best. While Reaper users on the other hand have open discussions with the Reaper developer on features that actually enhance your workflow.....like midi "Input Quantize" and the developer resonds and says, "It will be in Reaper...but probably not for 2 months." That's the kind of responses us Reaper users have grown acustomed to, which the typical Sonar user will never come to enjoy, because they're too busy holding their breath and never getting a response from the developers and waiting a year crossing their fingers that it will be in the next version only to be disappointed. Then it's off to another year of arguing about Sonar not having this feature and that feature, and waiting. I guess some people enjoy the suspense and disappointments. I on the other hand have better things to do, than wasting my breath contributing in a forum where the developers do not respond to user feedback on suggested features and banging my head up against a wall listening to negative user objections to suggested features.....alls, I know is that I'll be enjoyinig my midi input quantize feature in Reaper within a couple months, while they'll still be arguing over the need of it in the Sonar forums.

ORIGINAL: Rednroll

ORIGINAL: Ron Kuper

Don't feed the trolls.

Take note fellow Reaper users, that's good advice. I've learned quite awhile back, that the majority of Sonar users in this forum, to put it frankly are just ignorant. There's no use in trying to have a constructive conversation in this forum...it just doesn't happen. It's not even worth wasting your breath over. I've tried in the past of having constructive conversations and it's always a bunch of Sonar fan boys who wear blinders and claim that Sonar is perfect....it must be you. I've tried having constructive conversations about some of the Sonar lacking funcitionality and feature short comings in the past in this forum. A good example would be a midi Input Quantize feature....you get a few users who understand the functionality, but then you get bombarded by a parathera of neanderthalls who can't take their blinders off for 2 seconds to understand or see how a simple feature could benefit Sonar. I pointed out how the fader grouping ins Sonar did not function properly and I got a bunch of negative replies who told me, it was my lack of understanding....where I then had to prove to them with supporting information of how the fader grouping does not work properly. I tried to discuss the need for ASIO DM in Sonar for working in a professional recording studio environment and I got a bunch of work arounds that I was already aware of instead.

Reaper has been developed by a developer who originally listened to a small group of users who have worked in proffessional recording studio environments from the ground up. Reaper got more and more users everyday due to listening to that original small group and over a short period of time others have been attracted to the professional functioning features and that small group has grown into a much larger group where the developer still listens to user feedback and takes the time to comment on feature requests to better understand them and then almost immediately developes them. For example Reaper had Rewire slave AND host capabilities 2 weeks after getting the SDK from Propellerheads. If you even mention Rewire Slave functionality in the Sonar forums it falls on deaf ears, even after they've had the SDK for numerous years. I mean...who could want to Rewire Sonar to another host thru a rewire device support??? Sonar is perfect in every aspect right??? Why would you ever have the need to use it in that configuration??? You can Rewire Project 5 TO Sonar...that's all you'll ever need. Of course I'm being faceous....but that's the mentality here.

Let these users be in peace, we don't need those types of users cluttering up the Reaper forums and nothing we say will make them open their eyes. Common sense and open mindedness is something you can not teach. We have open discussions about user suggested features in the Reaper forums and these discussions always tend to be received with open minded contributions in understanding the need and not immediately shot down with negativity. Let the negativity and closed minded behavior remain over here. This is the perfect customer and audience for Cakewalk products. They are easily dazzled by bullet point features like 64 bit floating point audio engines which does nothing for your workflow, but sounds good on paper where the users are too busy trying to figure out if that audio engine actually sounds better than 32 bit float. These are the features and discussions that Sonar users like to have, where they're too busy arguing over if you can actually tell if the feature really benefitted you or not. It's marketing propaganda at it's best. While Reaper users on the other hand have open discussions with the Reaper developer on features that actually enhance your workflow.....like midi "Input Quantize" and the developer resonds and says, "It will be in Reaper...but probably not for 2 months." That's the kind of responses us Reaper users have grown acustomed to, which the typical Sonar user will never come to enjoy, because they're too busy holding their breath and never getting a response from the developers and waiting a year crossing their fingers that it will be in the next version only to be disappointed. Then it's off to another year of arguing about Sonar not having this feature and that feature, and waiting. I guess some people enjoy the suspense and disappointments. I on the other hand have better things to do, than wasting my breath contributing in a forum where the developers do not respond to user feedback on suggested features and banging my head up against a wall listening to negative user objections to suggested features.....alls, I know is that I'll be enjoyinig my midi input quantize feature in Reaper within a couple months, while they'll still be arguing over the need of it in the Sonar forums.

So....what you are saying in effect is that we should all share YOUR views and values on what is important in a DAW? Never mind the quality, look at the workflow? We all have different wants and needs. We all place different subjective values on things. For some the pusuit of ultimate quality will be more important than any amount of "ease of use" or "workflow" (which is subjective in itself btw). I spent 18 months looking for/trying to create the perfect snare sound. I COULD have just loaded up an 808 sample, but it wasn't what I was looking for. Sad? Maybe. But it's my life, my sound and my personal quest.

Some people want a two seater sports car that can do 230mph. What you are saying is "Never mind your stupid 2 seater, get in my SUV. It's the best! It's got a large boot, it's easy to drive and the gas mileage is twice what you get". It's a nice ploy, but ultimately a stupid one, as your requirements spec is different. The sports car guy doesn't need a big boot. In fact, he's not interested in that. He doesn't care if it's easy to drive. the 230mph is the important bit. And however rude, boorish and intemperate you choose to be, you won't change that persons wishes or desires. You can take the horse to water, but you can't make make it a duck.

I notice that a bunch of you guys are boasting about this thread in the Reaper forums. Well done. Annoying people is such a positive contribution to life.

Ask yourself this however, you speak of people being closed minded. Who is more closed minded? Those who don't fully understand features, or you who refuses point blank to accept that people might want different things from their software than you?

/p

You Reap What You Sow

When people say they're out to spread propaganda, I find it's best to take their word for it.

I'll give such behavior all the attention it deserves.

Oops! Time's up.


Edit: Special Bonus Comment

I'll add one piece of advice, though.

This business of saying "Sonar users think this", "Cubase users think that", "Reaper kills Sonar", etc. is a straw man argument and proves nothing.

I'm a musician. Period.

I use whatever tools I want, when I want. Period.

Trying to define me as a person by the software I use and stir up cross-board drama says nothing about me -- and everything about the person doing it.

Please, save that sort of pointless juvenile trollery for sports forums, gaming forums, anime fansites, etc. and spare us the wasted bandwidth.

Er

6.2 has Midi Input quantise.

One of the things that attracted me to Sonar was the fact they responded to user requests.

Okay not on a daily basis, but that frightens me. I work in IT the thought of an application whose code changes on a daily basis = my worst nightmare.

I am not anti reaper i think its fantastic and healthy to have somethign like this around, and I am gonna try it, hey if the side chaining works i may even use it as a subset of my workflow.

Sonar to me though represents an ideal balance between the Heil Steinberg mentality with no user interaction whatsoever and reapers scary level of change, and therefore potential instability.

I used to recommend people starting up to use smaller DAW's to help get their head round it first, I may after trying it recommend Repear now, as it seems a goo dbalance of easy to use but with some truly professional mixing logic behin it. I just the other day recomended LIVE to a friend who was a DJ as it obviously more suited his way of working. Use the best tool for the job, right now for me, that is SONAR.

I wish the devlopers of reaper all luck and hope that it continues to grow and be successful, but try to accept that a lot of people like Sonar for valid reasons, and that does not mean we are blinkered.
g

Don't you just hate it when someone replies while you're typing the same thing :-)