OT - I've never hated as much as I do right now

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gnie
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RE: OT - I've never hated as much as I do right now 2007/07/04 03:26:55 (permalink)
For no particular reason, I'll remind us of a thread about a year back where we found our friends logging in at number 21 on the list of '50 albums that changed the face of music'. So let's at least give them their due. ^~^

21 The Spice Girls
Spice (1996)
The music business has been cynically creating and marketing acts since the days of the wax cylinder, but on nothing like the scale of the Spice phenomenon, which was applied to crisps, soft drinks, you name it. Musically, the Spice's Motown-lite was unoriginal, but 'Girl Power', despite being a male invention, touched a nerve and defined a generation of tweenies who took it to heart.
Without this ... five-year-olds would not have become a prime target for pop marketeers. Most of all, there'd be no Posh'n'Becks.
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John T
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RE: OT - I've never hated as much as I do right now 2007/07/04 05:57:50 (permalink)
Whoa whoa whoa. I've not said anything is closed for discussion. Unfortunately, there's nothing to answer in this post, because it's all a gripe about whether you're allowed to discuss the subject or not. You are. Please do.

Yes, "dressing like sluts" is extremely shaky ground. You've got a lot of work to do to legitimise that, frankly.

And speaking of bananas... No matter how extreme my exemple might have seemed: next time some parents sue Ozzy cos his music supposedly drove their kid to commit suicide, or that the first thing to be pointed out when some kid kills a dozen of innocent students is that he was dressed in black and listening to Marilyn Manson
What on earth has that got to do with the Spice Girls though?

ORIGINAL: Rain

I came up w/ an extreme exemple to match the silliness of the fact that the words talent and role model were applied to the Spice Girls - every one is free to enjoy their music, but talent and role models? Give me a break - of all, I would think that you guys can tell how much the whole thing is made up. And if you want to talk about them as role models, well, I don't really believe they have any impact beside selling stuff - at first sight - but we'll push the discussion in that direction.

I know that the spice girls are throwaway fun pop music. And I'm not usually inclined to go out bashing things just for the sake of it - I have much better things to do.

But since we're actually talking about it, I do have an opinion on the matter - it may seem a bit too serious to some for the subject at hand. Sorry for them. I do believe there is an ethical question that can be raised. If it's of no interest to you, you can close your eyes on it. I'm not saying it is the most crucial thing that needs to be discussed first and foremost. But that dimension IS there and this, unless I'm mistaken, is a discussion forum.

Shaky ground? So we'll act and pretend like there's nothing to talk about on the ground that it's either too serious for the subject at hand or that it yields uncomfortable questions...

It's as if some guy made a big claim that McDonald food was good food and that the people chiming in with different opinions were told to shut up because McDonald has got nothing to do w/ nutritive facts - it's just food that people enjoy and they don't want to go over such discussions.

And speaking of bananas... No matter how extreme my exemple might have seemed: next time some parents sue Ozzy cos his music supposedly drove their kid to commit suicide, or that the first thing to be pointed out when some kid kills a dozen of innocent students is that he was dressed in black and listening to Marilyn Manson, or that the US government invest $300 000 to help combat the goth culture in Missouri... We'll talk about bananas. Ignorance does have an impact. But I guess as long as we can close our eyes on it, we're okay...

ORIGINAL: John T

Hmm. I think Rain is being a staggering misery guts here, but I think Jinga is overstating the case for the Spice Girls to a staggering degree.

However, Rain, general misery guts-ness aside, this stuff about role models and kids with guns is downright bananas. Spice Girls = throwaway fun pop music for people who like that kind of thing. You not liking it is completely fine, but trying to shoe-horn your personal tastes into some epic sociological and ethical narrative, when we're talking about such flimsy stuff, is pretty much doomed.

Also, I think we're on very shaky ground with this "dressing like sluts" stuff, chaps. Probably want to tread carefully on that one.



post edited by John T - 2007/07/04 05:58:59
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Rain
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RE: OT - I've never hated as much as I do right now 2007/07/05 01:43:22 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: John T

Whoa whoa whoa. I've not said anything is closed for discussion. Unfortunately, there's nothing to answer in this post, because it's all a gripe about whether you're allowed to discuss the subject or not. You are. Please do.


Because I wrote it as a reply to your own closed arguments, opinions and comments that leave no room for discussion. (i.e. "Probably not, but I don't think that matters much").

If you go back to my very first post, you'll see that I never mentionned that the issue was new - al contrario! yet you felt the need to chime in and to "comment" my reply. What should I answer to a comment? "Okay, it's your opinion" ?

Yes, "dressing like sluts" is extremely shaky ground. You've got a lot of work to do to legitimise that, frankly.


Work? Because I used the word "slut"? I am in no way accusing them of being anything like that - I felt it was obvious and that my point had to do w/ their clothing. To me it's just a word - and maybe the language barrier and our respective cultures make it so that it seems rather heavy to you, heavier than I perceive it - if so, I sincerly apologize to anyone who might have felt the way you do. Blame it on me owing my bad english to South Park. ;)

So, let's just put it this way; the 14 years old school girls I see on the bus to work every morning are dressed like, say, a girl in her 20's desesparately seeking attention would dress to go out at night. From there on it's another debate. My point was just to come up w/ something that could be regarded as an impact of the Spice Girls and all the Britneys and Christinas...

And speaking of bananas... No matter how extreme my exemple might have seemed: next time some parents sue Ozzy cos his music supposedly drove their kid to commit suicide, or that the first thing to be pointed out when some kid kills a dozen of innocent students is that he was dressed in black and listening to Marilyn Manson


What on earth has that got to do with the Spice Girls though?


You called for bananas... So I came up w/ an exemple - an extreme one, as I mentionned, cos we were talking about role models and I felt that if we were going to go as far as discussing their positive impact, we might as well push the limits in the other direction too.

Yet you felt the need to comment my post again there again so I came up w/ something to actually back up my assertion. So, yes, actually, it's got very little to do w/ the Spice Girls, other than the fact that when people decide to believe in the impact of pop stars, they can go as ridiculously far as I mentionned. And this sort of action leads into much more harmful behaviors than my little opinion on the "negative impact" of the Spice Girls.
post edited by Rain - 2007/07/05 01:49:54

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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