John
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 14:57:00
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From Beepster
"This entire thread is crawling with people I adore. That's why it upset me to see this kind of strife amongst our finest. With that said..."
This is exactly how I feel Beep.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 15:01:12
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Beepster
Straummy... I do think you are good guy and I do agree with many of your points but most of them are indeed related to the actual content and intent of Chuck's posts. I have no problem with debates about content and intent. The only thing I will point out is that his statement in regards to OP using all caps is fair game IMO as all caps is generally accepted as "YELLING" on the internet.
No. I'm sorry Beep, but I believe you are wrong about this, or at least missing my point. Forum etiquette is such that typing in all capitals is considered to be the literary equivalent of 'shouting'. I agree, and not only that, but it also makes the text incredibly difficult to read. If Charlie had simply pointed that out to the OP, it would have been understandable. But he didn't do that, did he? He deliberately mocks the OP by composing his whole reply in capitals. In my opinion, that's inflammatory. After that, any attack on his own grammar (and conduct for that matter) is fair game. You can't criticise someone for (ungrammatically or aesthetically) using all capital letters, and then expect to be immune from any subsequent criticism of your own grammar. That's a classic case of the 'pot calling the kettle black' at best, and rank hypocrisy at worst - you can dress it up anyway you like, and make as many excuses for Charlie as you see fit, but to me, that's exactly what it is. That's the reason I (rather childishly) did exactly the same thing to Charlie in replying to him like this to show him what it's like to be mocked by highlighting one's own shortcoming and throwing it straight back in their face:
hey doood hows it goin maaaaaaaaaaaaaan
you like edited your post dooooood
sorry if i'm bringing you down dooood
and you took away my smiley maaaaan that's like soooooooo uncooooooooooooooooool
Beepster
I was not trying to single any one out so please don't take offense.
Well Beep, you did actually "single out" one particular victim, and decided to ignore everyone else who has been maligned in this thread. And not only that, the very same 'victim', as I hope I've illustrated in a few of my recent posts, has actually been one of the main perpetrators of any perceived victimisation that's been going on in this thread.
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Beepster
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 15:09:34
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Welp... you can't say I didn't try. I hope ya'll can patch things up. Cheers.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 15:28:10
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Beepster
Welp... you can't say I didn't try.
I commend your attempts Beep, and I know that your intentions were good. I just happen to think you picked the wrong 'victim' to exclusively stand up for.
I hope ya'll can patch things up. Cheers.
Like I said, I'm a cool guy - I'll get on with anyone. But I won't shy away from pointing out hypocrisy and downright rudeness. As we don't get the opportunity to talk face to face, our reputations stand and fall in an online forum by what we write. As I pointed out previously, I wholeheartedly believe that it is the responsibility of the poster to say what he means, and not for others like you to have to "translate" for them. Obviously, some contributors don't use English as a first language, or suffer other genuine reasons for not being able to express themselves accurately and clearly, and we should all endeavour to cut them as much slack as possible. But for someone who is capable, but simply can't be arsed to write properly, I don't have a lot of time. And when push comes to shove, whichever category you fall into, you can't be considered immune from criticism on this count when you've just belittled someone else for committing an extremely similar infraction.
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Beepster
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 15:46:35
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I belittled no one. I pointed out that I found that one particular line of attack unsavory and unnecessary. I'm sorry if you feel offended by that but my statement on the matter stands. I personally feel that if you wish to debate or argue with another's views or opinions that focusing on the substance rather than the semantics carries far more weight and is far more productive than what has transpired here. I do not defend or rebuke Chuck's sentiments. I would just like to see us not engage each other in such an UN-productive and hurtful manner. It solves nothing. Quite the opposite.
Now let's agree to disagree and move on.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 15:52:04
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My apologies Beep.
My final paragraph wasn't meant to appear in the second person. I was using "you" in the generic sense.
It would have been better to say: "And when push comes to shove, whichever category one falls into, one can't be considered immune from criticism on this count when one's just belittled someone else for committing an extremely similar infraction."
I suppose this just goes to show the importance of getting it right. And I stand guilty of getting it wrong there.
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Beepster
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 15:53:10
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We cool, man. We cool.
;-)
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rabeach
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 18:26:22
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Beepster
I belittled no one. I pointed out that I found that one particular line of attack unsavory and unnecessary. I'm sorry if you feel offended by that but my statement on the matter stands. I personally feel that if you wish to debate or argue with another's views or opinions that focusing on the substance rather than the semantics carries far more weight and is far more productive than what has transpired here. I do not defend or rebuke Chuck's sentiments. I would just like to see us not engage each other in such an UN-productive and hurtful manner. It solves nothing. Quite the opposite.
Now let's agree to disagree and move on.
I have to disagree with you too Beepster. You found one line of attack unsavory and unnecessary. I found a lot that was unnecessary. Including my "I think it is ridiculous that the X1 matrix did not support midi out and nothing Charlie says will change that and I don't even use it. :-)" what I thought was a light hearted jab at Charlie's post. I'm not sure it was taken that way. But no offence was intended. I used the smiley. I'm an old man you know how hard it is to use the smiley. That aside no harm as far as I know has been done to anyone by anyone. Engineers are the worst spellers. There is an inside joke 'an Engineer who can spell now that's a novel idea'.
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jb101
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 18:49:06
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I guess I feel the need to chime in, now, although I think Steve has pretty much covered everything better than I could. I again say that I could empathise with the OP, even if I did not agree with his manner of posting. Please see my earlier post for my reasons. I have used Sonar for many years, but only joined this forum quite recently. It was/is the only forum that I had/have used. I did not know "Forum Etiquette" when I joined, so now tend to give people the benefit of the doubt when I see them post, particularly if they have a low post count here, as Waters does. My initial post was aimed at offering help to the OP, and taking issue with Roy for, as it appeared to me, an aggressive and sarcastic response to his thread. I have seen Roy respond like this on several threads. Whilst I know Roy has been a great help on this forum, I do feel that some of his responses are bellicose, and occasionally based on misinterpretations of poster, as in this case. The only times I have taken issue with Roy have been because of this attitude, or his occasional need to play un-appointed forum police.. His response was to say "how can you be giving advise to anyone when you cant even do something as simple as posting on this forum ? surely you didn't grow up before they created the "post button" ???" The duplicate post issue with the new Forum Software is well documented, but Charlie was either ignorant of this, or ignored the fact so he could attempt to belittle me. A pattern emerges. My swipe about the grammar and spell checker was in response to this. A child response to a child action. I should have responded as an adult, but at the time felt that I was echoing his attitude to others. I did not mention it again, and did apologise for my bad form, and for my contribution to taking this thread down a bad path. I still feel for the OP. Charlie, on the other hand, continued. He again takes another sarcastic swipe at the OP, refusing to admit that he had done any wrong, or apologise. He then misinterprets Steve's post about duplicate threads in a most paranoid manner, and deliberately misquotes me to make my initial comment seem far worse than it was. He takes several more digs at me, some of which, such as "Get a life", he conveniently edited out quickly, and has a go at another innocuous poster. Please don't bestow upon Charlie Roy the role of innocent victim in all this. It is misguided. Edited for syntax errors..
post edited by jb101 - 2013/06/18 20:06:18
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stevec
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 18:52:41
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Beepster
We cool, man. We cool.
;-)
Well, that's debatable. After all, Steve is English. Badum bum.  (...and that was my imflammatory contribution for the day. Now back to that Mike Tyson pic...)
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 19:08:19
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stevec
Beepster
We cool, man. We cool.
;-)
Well, that's debatable. After all, Steve is English.
Badum bum.
(...and that was my imflammatory contribution for the day. Now back to that Mike Tyson pic...)
Steve, let me assure you that I am extremely cool But, rather ironically, not in the opinion of my teenage kids whenever I use the word "cool"  Maybe I should resort to describing things as "groovy"; now that would really embarrass them!
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jb101
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 19:35:42
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The first band I gigged with professionally was a jazz piano trio. I was only about fourteen, but the piano player seemed really old to me, probably only in his forties or fifties. He used to use words like "Cool", "Groovy", "Hep Cat" and "Hot" all the time. I remember him telling me that I should not use my name "Jonathan", but call myself "Johhny" when we were gigging, as it made me sound cool.. The bass player and I used to giggle about it at the time, but, looking back, he was one of the coolest people that I have ever met. He was also one of the finest musicians with whom I have ever played, and taught me more about feel, swing and "Groove" than any other. Because of him, I got to jam with Barney Kessel. He was cool, dude.. Edited for a missing comma
post edited by jb101 - 2013/06/18 20:01:43
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John
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 19:52:07
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I am the uncool. Sort of like the uncola.
Hey we need full representation too. The cool are over represented.
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stevec
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 21:21:28
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☄ Helpfulby trimph1 2013/06/19 13:22:45
And now we've got uncool, yet very groovy English jazz piano trios. Yeah, baby, yeah!
Question: Do uncool, yet very groove English jazz trios use the Matrix view?
Yes, I know, I should stop now.
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John
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/18 21:37:03
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☄ Helpfulby trimph1 2013/06/19 13:22:30
Is there such a thing as a groovy English jazz trio? Can jazz be groovy? These questions and others will be answered in an upcoming episode. Stay tuned.
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chuckebaby
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 07:38:54
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make music people and enjoy it :)
post edited by chuckebaby - 2013/06/19 08:39:12
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chuckebaby
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 07:44:05
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I think the best bet here might be to just to keep some distance JB. we just don't get along, and that's okay. some people just don't like eachother, like eachothers posts. so for everyone's viewing enjoyment, just don't interact with me and I wont interact with you. im not telling you what to do, im merely making a suggestion for the best interest of everyone here. thank you.
post edited by chuckebaby - 2013/06/19 08:31:41
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trimph1
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 13:22:01
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Yeah...don't know what happened here...guess it was just the way it was this week...
HEY!!! Get off my lawns you great jumping gallivanters!!!!!
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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trimph1
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 13:23:35
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John
Is there such a thing as a groovy English jazz trio? Can jazz be groovy? These questions and others will be answered in an upcoming episode. Stay tuned.
I was actually trying to think of one....Ronnie Scott?
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 13:29:09
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chuckebaby
sorry steve.
about every thing.
Thanks Charlie. And I guess I did go a bit over the top.
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dubdisciple
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 13:33:43
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I can't believe this thread went on this long over a feature that I would guess is hardly used. How many of use regularly use the matrix view with hardware synths? Funny how things escalate when stuff gets personal.
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chuckebaby
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 13:39:28
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SteveStrummerUK
chuckebaby
sorry steve.
about every thing.
Thanks Charlie.
And I guess I did go a bit over the top.
I never should have dragged you in to this mess to begin with, what I did was foolish. and I am really sorry. only hope you accept my apology.
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Beepster
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 13:47:51
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I'm kind of confused as to why someone would want to use the Matrix as a control for an external synth anyway. Wouldn't it just be easier to trigger the synth with it's own keys or have a pad controller do it? I don't know much about this style of production but it seems there would be much simpler ways to go about it... which is probably why CW didn't consider Matrix midi out a priority. They did however, as I mentioned before, drop the ball by not letting OP know that X1 did not support the feature. I'm assuming support was just in full on X2 mode and overlooked that he was on X1.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 13:57:52
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Hi Beepster,
Cakewalk, when it is all said and done, sells a MIDI sequencer.
There was a time when the only thing Cakewalk's application (Which they called Cakewalk) could do was output MIDI so as to control hardware and people felt that function was very useful.
best regards,
mike
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John
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 14:06:26
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Beepster
I'm kind of confused as to why someone would want to use the Matrix as a control for an external synth anyway. Wouldn't it just be easier to trigger the synth with it's own keys or have a pad controller do it? I don't know much about this style of production but it seems there would be much simpler ways to go about it... which is probably why CW didn't consider Matrix midi out a priority. They did however, as I mentioned before, drop the ball by not letting OP know that X1 did not support the feature. I'm assuming support was just in full on X2 mode and overlooked that he was on X1.
You make a good point Beep. I can see why someone might assume it would work, though. Heck I loaded up Vista so I could try it in X1 and it just sat there. I never thought of the Matrix as a way to trigger a hardware sound module but I do know that a lot of people are very creative in their thinking.
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rabeach
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 14:20:42
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Beepster
I'm kind of confused as to why someone would want to use the Matrix as a control for an external synth anyway. Wouldn't it just be easier to trigger the synth with it's own keys or have a pad controller do it? I don't know much about this style of production but it seems there would be much simpler ways to go about it... which is probably why CW didn't consider Matrix midi out a priority. They did however, as I mentioned before, drop the ball by not letting OP know that X1 did not support the feature. I'm assuming support was just in full on X2 mode and overlooked that he was on X1.
The Matrix was a holdover from P5. And yes cakewalk absolutely knew people wanted to use it with hardware synths. They dropped the ball but picked it up quickly and were able to throw the runner out at home.
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John
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 14:25:35
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P5 didn't work with hardware if I recall. So I don't get the connection that the version in Sonar should.
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WDI
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 14:28:35
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Beepster
I'm kind of confused as to why someone would want to use the Matrix as a control for an external synth anyway. Wouldn't it just be easier to trigger the synth with it's own keys or have a pad controller do it? I don't know much about this style of production but it seems there would be much simpler ways to go about it... which is probably why CW didn't consider Matrix midi out a priority. They did however, as I mentioned before, drop the ball by not letting OP know that X1 did not support the feature. I'm assuming support was just in full on X2 mode and overlooked that he was on X1.
The matrix is really just another way to sequence like the piano roll view or staff view. No reason it shouldn't trigger external gear. IMO anyways. So your argument could also be made for the piano roll/staff view.
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Beepster
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 14:33:13
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Yeah, like I said I'm not familiar with that style of production but to me it looks like the Matrix is just a software version of one of those fancy pad controllers like the NI Launchpad (I own a padKontrol but for live finger drumming, not looping). I'm sure I'm missing something. The Matrix does intrigue me though and I'd like to use it but more for triggering things inside of Sonar. Not external synths. I guess I also don't really understand why with all the hardware synth emus someone would want to go through the fiddle faddle of triggering external gear aside from something that hasn't been successfully emulated but again I'm sure there are reasons. Just not my area of expertise.
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WDI
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Re: PISSED OFF X1 MATRIX USER
2013/06/19 14:53:31
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