Pirate tattletale?

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R!Soc
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:04:31 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Stringrazor1

Do you ask for receipts for everything you see in use at a business or friend's home? I could understand your objection if the guy offered you a "good deal" on a copy or was selling copies out the back door or on ebay. If it bothers you enough ask him directly or take your business elswhere otherwise, get over it.


Where I work, we are audited by our clients to make sure we have the correct license count for the CAD and Process Design software we use on their projects. They don't want anything to do with a non-legit engineering firm. I don't see anything wrong with that. They are very up front about it, just like you advised. A direct approach is probably best if you are concerned.
#31
mddmoderndaydavid
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:04:51 (permalink)
Should I just suck it up and not say anything? My main problem is that I have friends in 3 different bands that use this studio. It seems like he has the money (you can't download mics, keyboards, control surfaces, and accoustical treatment!) to pay for software, but doesn't. I guess it's none of my business except perhaps to tell my friends that use him.


Honestly speaking (and I could be wrong), your friends probally go to him because of the sound he is able to provide them with and they just like his service. If you see his success and desire to get your friends business then compete by providing a better service not by tearing down what he does because it does not change his sound or the service he provides. Other than that, whisteblowers aren't cool! and just because you see gear in his studio doesn't mean he had the money to pay for it. In my early stages I acquire a lot of gear from clients that I did work for for free, friends that invested, and presents that were given. I am not saying that his choice to use crack software is right but I am saying it is none of your business. And for the record, (before the slayers and judgers come out) my software is legal. I have never been fond of Whistle blowers. That is just me! It's so kindergarden and punkish...... And please, lets not get into the whole thing about
if I payed for my software, he should be able to pay for his as well
or
it hurts the developer
. Cakewalk has been dongle free for years and they have loyal customer. This guys pirating will eventually catch up with him. Pirating is like messing with a whore; if you keep on sooner or later you will get burn because she has been passed around to everybody..........

www.mddmoderndaydavid.com

Peace MDD
WITHOUT A VISION, THE PEOPLE PERISH
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#32
HansDampf
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:19:40 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Frank Haas

@Hansdampf.. I work at a private local tvstation, so I kind of have my own relationship to the gez, I even worked for the gez as a callcenter-employe some years ago.. so I know some of their tricks..
And now dont laugh.. because I watch tv 8 hours daily as a profession.. do you really think when I come home that I'll turn on my television ? no.. I dont even have one at home, cause when I zap through the programs and see a fault on our channel.. I have so much responsibility to immediatly drive to work.. I dont do that anymore.. to many relationsships have broken up for that reason.
But I do have an old "braun" radio.. with these old "midi" connectors (5pin).. I dont even know if it works anymore.. its more a childhood thing.. brings me back in time.. it's just standing here having an inch of dust on it.. And the law says: you have to pay for it! every month ! come on.. peace..


Uups, I hope you didn`t take my little bashing of private stations too personal
I justed wanted to say that you might see that fee as support of more culture- and politics-oriented TV stations like the ones I mentioned. I am totally with you when it comes to radio stations. Most of the ones that we have to pay GEZ for are playing the same "charts crap" as the private ones. We support the city-theatres with our taxes anyway, even if we don`t go there and although I surely would prefer to keep that money to myself, I have some understanding that they are something worthwile. Having said that, I confess to watch more private TV stations....

And when it comes to judgements: In fact there is a difference related to the circumstances and reasons for a crime or a contravention. And according to them the punishment may differ.

Concerning Paul McCartney and similar cases: Often these things are not about the money, but are more about personal feelings and relationships. If you hate your ex-wife for whatever reasons, it is at least comprehensible that you don`t want her to have any of your money.
#33
jinga8
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:24:09 (permalink)
Well, I guess the majority rules. I will "bring it up" with my friends, and if they aren't bothered, then neither am I. I will just let the studio guy do his thing. I am not so concerned with pirated software (I have quite a collection used as demos), but for the fact that he would charge people pro rates to use his studio IF (and as I have no proof of pirating, I must assume the best) he is not paying for the recording software. But hey, if he's really good and starts making money, pretty soon he'll have a Protools HD system with all the bells and whistles and I'll be envious more than suspicious. Guess I gotta just chill and worry about myself more...Thanks for the responses
#34
yorolpal
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:27:03 (permalink)
Hey Jinga, let's say your against recreational drug use of any kind. One day your over at a friends house and he offers you some pot. Do you call the police and turn him in? Or simply not hang around him anymore? Or just let bygones be bygones? Murky waters, this. It's a fine line between upright citizen and snitching weasle. My advice is take a good look in any mirror and do some hard thinking before pulling out the scepter-of-justice, putting your cape on and firing up the super-honest-man-mobile.

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#35
jamester
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:31:05 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Geokauf

In response to other statements in this thread:

- I don’t know that it is common for “some studios to purchase legitimate software but to run cracked versions in order to simplify the intrusiveness that can become a real problem when two or more dongles don't get along with each other.” What size sampling of studios do you need to be sure that a practice is “common.”

- “Sorry my friend, but only your conscience believes you're innocent. According to the law, you have pirated software sitting on your computer - you are a thief. Period.” Law enforcement is reactive. The law doesn’t apply until you get caught.

- “I SERIOUSLY doubt that if the poilce came to investigate me, and all I have is legit software, and this work around for the dongle,…” Violating a software EULA is not a criminal act. The police are primarily concerned with violent crime. When are the police going to find the time to make a house-to-house search for unauthorized software?


First of all, it should be noted that there was a misunderstanding; Ogis was not using pirated software, but rather a crack for the dongle. Having said that, I have to disagree with the three points above.

1) It used to be fairly "common" for studios to use cracked versons of Waves plugs because of the Pace software that 'protected' it. This is why Waves changed to dongle protection inthe past year or so. Now I obviously can't give an actual number of studios that did this, but I've heard it said plenty, both on forums and in real life.

2) Law enforcement is reactive yes, but the rule of law is not. The law always applies, only the enforcement of the law doesn't apply until you get caught. There is a difference. If someone has pirated software on their computer, they are breaking the law, regardless of whether they ever get caught.

3) Whether the police are "primarily concerned with violent crime" is not the issue here, and that's your opinion anyway. This is the difference I was trying to make about "practical morality" verses "the actual law". The police may never do a house-to-house search for unauthorized software, but again that doesn't make it legal to have it just because you probably won't get caught.

J-Walking is illegal in many cities, but of course that's probably not a high priority compared to murderers and bank robbers...but that doesn't mean you won't get a ticket for it if you're caught. Heck, cops will sit for hours at the bottom of a hill just to catch you speeding! The law is the law, period.

Once again I will conclude that I'm not trying to be on any moral high-horse, I have no personal judgement here. Nobody's perfect, everybody's got a skeleton or two in their closet. I agree with Frank's sentiments on page one (post #18). Live and let live, but let's be honest with ourselves about what is and is not breaking the law...

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#36
StormAngel
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:34:58 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: yorolpal

...Murky waters, this.



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post edited by StormAngel - 2006/11/08 13:53:03
#37
yorolpal
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:37:33 (permalink)
That's "Yor"da. Ifn ya please.

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#38
StormAngel
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:39:36 (permalink)
I am ROTFL! lmfao!
#39
jinga8
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 13:44:43 (permalink)
I think you mean OTFAI, MFALO!!! (On the floor am I, My f***ing ass laughing off!!!) but explaining the joke kills it...sorry..
#40
krizrox
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 14:15:51 (permalink)
I will tell you something in regards to all this...

For the past 6 years or so I have been running my studio as a full-time job. I have recorded all sorts of music - rock based stuff being the bread and butter business and maybe rappers a distant second. I can't remember a "rocker" ever asking me for a copy of my software but rappers were constantly hitting me up. Rap artists would come into my studio with illegal software - in their possession - and try to trade me for my own legal software (I'll give you a copy of Cubase for your copy of Sonar).

Beats they stole from the internet. Hardly anyone I had dealt with was using legitimately acquired beats. I heard stories of rappers breaking into other rappers homes to steal their software and beats. Which is one of the reasons I don't do rap projects here anymore. After a lot of soul-searching, I decided I didn't want to be a party to that sort of stuff anymore. It was becoming a mental burden to me. I'm certainly no angel but I do have limits. I think I have a good sense of right and wrong. Clearly many people don't. I don't care what kind of spin you put on it. Theft is theft. But in response to the original thread, I agree with Susan's response. Confront the owner if it bothers you. Make sure you know the whole story before passing judgment. Over and out. ;-)

Larry Kriz
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www.myspace.com/lnlrecording

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#41
mddmoderndaydavid
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 15:25:12 (permalink)
Larry Kriz wrote:
For the past 6 years or so I have been running my studio as a full-time job. I have recorded all sorts of music - rock based stuff being the bread and butter business and maybe rappers a distant second. I can't remember a "rocker" ever asking me for a copy of my software but rappers were constantly hitting me up. Rap artists would come into my studio with illegal software - in their possession - and try to trade me for my own legal software (I'll give you a copy of Cubase for your copy of Sonar).
Beats they stole from the internet. Hardly anyone I had dealt with was using legitimately acquired beats. I heard stories of rappers breaking into other rappers homes to steal their software and beats. Which is one of the reasons I don't do rap projects here anymore. After a lot of soul-searching, I decided I didn't want to be a party to that sort of stuff anymore. It was becoming a mental burden to me. I'm certainly no angel but I do have limits.

First, to pen this down to a certain genre is not only ignorant but underlining racist. As if rappers are the only ones to use crack software and all rappers are theives. I produce all genre and I have major label credits and guess what; I have had rockers ask me if I have any plug-ins and a pop artist trying to walk out of my studio with a mic. Most people use crack software simply because they can't afford or don't want to go out and spend 1800.00 on Waves plug-ins. There are rappers, rockers, pop heads, and all sort of people streched out across a variety of genres that use crack software. And, just in case you don't understand where the racist part come in, everyone knows that black people are the poster boys for the rap industry. Once again, I do not use crack software. The question is about whether or not Jinga8 should tell his friends that the studio owner they are given there business too uses crack software. I am not a rapper but there are rappers in this forum and they would not disrespect you so why disrepect them. We are all united on this forum we are Cakewalk users! Rappers, singers, producers, mix engineers, mastering engineers, etc.............Cakewalk users.

Peace MDD
WITHOUT A VISION, THE PEOPLE PERISH
FAILURE TO FOCUS IS A HAZZARD
#42
corrupted
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 15:37:14 (permalink)
David, you made it about race, Larry did not. Cracking software is a crime, but it is not what he's talking about. He's talking about having his studio broken into.

Take this example... many rock clubs in my city don't do extremely well as far as money. Hip-hop/Rap/Dance shows do bring in money, but almost every time one of these clubs decides to have an event (because they're broke), there is a shooting. Just a few months back someone died and they shut a music hall down. This was the first rap show they had at the venue... it had all been rock/metal/blues/jazz before that. The owner is a friend of mine and they just recently re-opened. He says now "I should have known, those shows always bring bad news... I needed the money, it was stupid and greedy."
So, can you fault this person for not having one of these shows again? Hell no you can't. Once you touch a hot stove, you learn not to get near them... even a child learns that quickly. Do you consider him a racist for not wanting to risk violence? He doesn't turn away anyone based on race...
#43
opaque slogan
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 15:47:31 (permalink)
Also rap isn't race-specific.
Don't you have that enema guy over there?

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#44
mddmoderndaydavid
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 15:54:42 (permalink)
David, you made it about race, Larry did not. Cracking software is a crime, but it is not what he's talking about. He's talking about having his studio broken into
.

That is your opinion and if you read Larry's qoute his studio was not broken into. He said he heard (read above). And, his response did not have anything to do with the question. It was his personal opinion that target a selective group. Now, as far as your example in regards to your friend that owns the club. It is the message of those particular act that drew that type of crowd. Rap is not all violent. I am into Holy Hip Hop and express the message of Christianity. It is the integrity of the music. Now that I can agree with totally. Your friend just played a part in what major labels have shamefully done that have corrupted a part of the music industry and that is ignore the shameful messages and violent conduct of the music and pushed it to make a buck and he learned the hard way.

Peace MDD
WITHOUT A VISION, THE PEOPLE PERISH
FAILURE TO FOCUS IS A HAZZARD
#45
corrupted
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 16:07:23 (permalink)
You're into Christianity and you call him "Ignorant" and "Borderline Racist"? You should be ashamed. You've talked yourself in a circle. Judge not...
#46
corrupted
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 16:08:25 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: opaque slogan

Also rap isn't race-specific.
Don't you have that enema guy over there?

Indeed. Ughhh....
#47
sandman5000
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 16:09:38 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: mddmoderndaydavid

David, you made it about race, Larry did not. Cracking software is a crime, but it is not what he's talking about. He's talking about having his studio broken into
.

That is your opinion and if you read Larry's qoute his studio was not broken into. He said he heard (read above). And, his response did not have anything to do with the question. It was his personal opinion that target a selective group. Now, as far as your example in regards to your friend that owns the club. It is the message of those particular act that drew that type of crowd. Rap is not all violent. I am into Holy Hip Hop and express the message of Christianity. It is the integrity of the music. Now that I can agree with totally. Your friend just played a part in what major labels have shamefully done that have corrupted a part of the music industry and that is ignore the shameful messages and violent conduct of the music and pushed it to make a buck and he learned the hard way.



I like a lot of the beats, sounds, production, and rapping of hip hop. But the lyrics....ughh. I haven't heard any rap act that didn't at some point start with the bravado and boasting crap. That just bores me as much as if I was sitting next to someone and they started boasting. I guess I don't get it. But Holy Hip Hop sounds interesting. Maybe post some stuff in the song forum.

Anyway....krizrox didn't mention any particular ethnicity (there is only one race. Human)
#48
themidiroom
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 16:21:57 (permalink)
No genre or race is free from idiots. I had a gospel group leave my studio and get into a fight out on the street.
We're all entitled to our opinions; which is good.
I'm not even going to comment about this absence of race. I think we all know better

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#49
mddmoderndaydavid
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 16:34:53 (permalink)
Hey Sandman:
Check out groups like Cross Movement, The Truth & Twyse.

Peace
MDD

Peace MDD
WITHOUT A VISION, THE PEOPLE PERISH
FAILURE TO FOCUS IS A HAZZARD
#50
mddmoderndaydavid
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 16:48:39 (permalink)
Corrupted wrote:
You're into Christianity and you call him "Ignorant" and "Borderline Racist"? You should be ashamed. You've talked yourself in a circle. Judge not...


Definition:
Ignorant - lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact; an ignorant statement http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant

Think about it......... And, once again the question was "Should I tell my friends that the owner of the studio is using crack software?". He made a statement, it offended me and I called him on it! and if that makes other people uncomfortable............

#51
Ognis
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 16:55:35 (permalink)
mddmoderndaydavid

HA HA HA Ha!!!

You say that was racial ? LMAO. To say rappers steal is raciest ? LMAO, have you ever heard a rap CD ??

"I'm gonna steal your car, then ___ your girl, then shoot you in the face"

^^^ Thats what they sing about CONSTANTLY, and you think it is suprising that rappers steal ?

I think you are "underline raciest" by thinking all black people are part of this hardcore rap, ganster life style.

I think you need to rethink what you are saying
#52
sandman5000
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 17:12:42 (permalink)
Well there are no human races. It's just one race. The human race. That is a fact. Racist (or ethnicity-ist ) euro centrics came up with the whole "race" classifications as a way to further separate and justify their hatred. I just don't feel like partaking in their ignorant definitions. Much like I don't do 'black' or 'white'. I prefer short, tall, heavy, thin, etc.., There is ethnicities and cultures. But only one human race.
#53
Ognis
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 17:18:28 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: sandman5000

Well there are no human races. It's just one race. The human race. That is a fact. Racist (or ethnicity-ist ) euro centrics came up with the whole "race" classifications as a way to further separate and justify their hatred. I just don't feel like partaking in their ignorant definitions. Much like I don't do 'black' or 'white'. I prefer short, tall, heavy, thin, etc.., There is ethnicities and cultures. But only one human race.



Yeah... I seriously doubt krizrox gives a damn if the rappers that were coming into his studio were white, black, mexican, or whatever. If the rappers were the ones bringing in the illegal software and beats (which makes sence with the whole "break the law mutha --ucker!!!" attatude they have) then he has the right to deny those guys, WITHOUT being called raciest by some misguided member of this forum.
#54
davidchristopher
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 20:31:56 (permalink)
Regardless of the contents of an EULA, using cracked software isn't illegal. It **might** be a contract violation, but so long as the software was paid for, It's using software - and not theft. Stealing software is illegal. AND - It's illegal regardless of how the theft occured. If you steal a sonar 6 dvd, install it, register it and use it, it's illegal. If you download a cracked version, install it, use it - but never pay for it, it's illegal. If you buy the licence to use the software, and are willing to risk "voiding the warrantee" then that's your call. The car analogy above misses this point.

I don't use cracked software, I need a throat to choke when something goes wrong.

David

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www.bistolas.net
#55
drumcat
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 20:48:55 (permalink)
I have to say it's a fair question if you believe that working with the studio in question may make you liable. If using the studio can get you sued, then it's fair to ask. Don't ask about specifics; IMO it's best to just get some sort of confirmation that everything you're using is properly licensed.

Otherwise if you find it's not a risk, don't be nosy. It is impossible for you to know whether a) the software they'll use is truly unlicensed, b) whether they have a license and just haven't installed the dongle, c) have the dongle internal, d) have a "legal" image and a "sandbox" image for their drives, or dual-boot, or e) and most importantly, you don't know whether Steiny, et al, will care. It's often not worth going after a single offender.

If you want to turn them in, do so anonymously... just understand that in the end, you may be doing more harm. CYA, and move on.
#56
xackley
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 21:00:10 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: drumcat

If you want to turn them in, do so anonymously... just understand that in the end, you may be doing more harm. CYA, and move on.

Ya be a snitch and a sneak

Holy Hip Hop snitchman, let's drop a dime.

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#57
koikane
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 21:10:53 (permalink)
Wait, I have the Waves Diamond version 5.0, and it does not need a dongle. I also have C4 and have the dongle in a USB hub behind a Tascam Burner, also plenty of ANtares stuff that does not use a dongle. Support your claim. Did you check versions. So far all I see is accusations and no proof. I could be wrong though as I sometimes make assumptions myself.

You friendly neighborhood,
KoiKane

If it's not in the mix, it's not in the master 
http://www.soundclick.com/kandd
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Motu MK3, Tascam-DM24, Lucid Work Clocked & Powercore Firewire
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#58
Tape Head
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 21:11:23 (permalink)
I HATE COPS!!(*#@&$@


. more than new Hip Hop!

but I hope your album RAWKS..... even though it was recorded on pirated software.


I have a confession to make...

I don't like paying for taxes, insurance, women, weed, cocaine and.........................................................(software)......................................................... beer!

but I do, part of the time or all the time part of the time.

scott




p.s>.. nobody likes a

if I were you, I'd blackmail them into more studio time
post edited by Tape Head - 2006/11/08 22:42:47

Scott
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johngree
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 14:06:21 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Ogis

Me = Bought Cubase.

Me = Don't, and will never use a dongle.

Was it cracked ? = Yep.

But did Stienberg get payed ? = Yes.




Not trying to judge you but Steinberg was not compensated for your copy. 2 Versions are being used by 2 different consumers but Steinberg was only compensated for one.
#60
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