JCody
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[Fixed in X3e] Playlist still broken (but NOT ANYMORE!!!)
Alas, I must have posted my bug report CWBRN-20634 too late to make it into X3c. I hope it makes it into X3d. While they fixed the playlist view in X3 so that it retains its column settings, (MUCH APPRECIATED) they broke its functionality. If you're using it in a live situation and you set your songs to "wait for keypress" to play them, when the dialog "start next song" comes up, you would expect the song to IMMEDIATELY play when you press the spacebar. Instead, Sonar gets confused, loads the next song and just sits there. Hitting the spacebar AGAIN will then play the song. Doesn't work in a timing critical situation. This is its behavior when the "pin" (keep playlist view on top) button is pressed. It also does this if you have any kind of a wait time assigned to a song. When the "pin" button isn't on, things work more like expected, except the scroll line doesn't show, and you can't press the "N" key which immediately starts the next song. I use that a lot too. Anyway, I can't wait to see this fixed because in my use of the product I'll have to stick with X2 until then. And the heartbreaker is . . . I LOVE X3.
post edited by Anderton - March 19, 14 0:13 PM
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mugician41
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Re: Playlist still broken
November 01, 13 3:28 PM
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I'm still using X1 for live because of playlist problems in X2....Guess I'll be sticking with X1 for live.I bought X2 for our live rig and had to revert back to X1. Using X3c on my main recording rig and love it. Hadn't tried the playlist yet, but now will check it out and see if i have the same problems.
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joden
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Re: Playlist still broken
November 01, 13 4:28 PM
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+1 for fixes to Playlist. It could be developed into a great feature for gigging users who want to use X3 live.
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gbarrett
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Re: Playlist still broken
November 01, 13 7:56 PM
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I use the playlist function every week. I send multi-track channels to the FOH with Vocals, keys, horns, and click for the other live players. PLEASE GET THIS FIXED! I just started using X3, but I haven't loaded it on the stage machine, just the studio. I guess I'll have to wait.
A real musician knows the difference between the music and the notes.
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JCody
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 17, 13 11:09 PM
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The behavior is still the same in X3d.
CakeAlexS asked me to continue this thread so that the discussion could be on its own.
Ryan acknowledged that the problem hasn't been fixed in this update and is still on the docket for a future one. From reading in the forum it looks like getting the video thing happening was a major task and therefore my hopes didn't happen. SuperG mentioned that it worked for him with midi files from his keyboard. But I'm not sure if he had the "Always on Top" button pushed. That's where the biggest problem lies.
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Splat 
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 17, 13 11:21 PM
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Thanks...
I can confirm the always on top issue persists in X3D in that it will become unusable and weird. There seems to be multiple issues around here, it would be good to have multiple step by step instructions on what the specifics are if you are totally familiar (otherwise Cake and others might miss the full fix).
Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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JCody
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 18, 13 8:41 AM
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It seems to me that this should be an easy fix. The playlist seems to lose focus while the next song is being loaded, which causes the current song not to play until you hit the spacebar AGAIN. The current song needs to take priority and play IMEDIATELY when you hit the spacebar. Imagine that you're playing a gig and you count down the song, 1,2,3,4 and you attempt to start the song on sonar, but it doesn't start, but the rest of the band does.
It makes you look bad, messes up the show, and that makes Sonar look bad. And I love Sonar.
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dwardzala
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 18, 13 2:12 PM
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One way to get around this would be to include the "countdown" in the first few bars of the song instead of doing it manually as a countdown to start the song. It probably has other advantages in addition to eliminating the "false starts".
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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mettelus
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 18, 13 2:37 PM
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The "live" setting adds a whole new twist to "tempting fate," since X3 is processing data (not simply playing it). Is this working for you? I do not mean to hijack the thread on you, sorry.
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JCody
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 18, 13 6:24 PM
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I reality, I use Sonar to run "live" theatrical performances, and have been doing so for over 10 years. Quite successfully I might add. It has been incredibly reliable. We have a backup ipad with a playlist on it just in case a rare crash occurs, the Ipad will play whatever is needed until we get the system back up and running. But it only sends music. Sonar sends midi time code to the light board, program changes to the digital mixing console, passes plug-in effects through it to the performers mics, and plays the music and sound effects. It's the heart of our tech. One technician can control an entire production, lights, sound, and special effects running through Sonar. We really can't do a count off to start a song. I just used that as an example in a previous post. My reality is, the playlist needs to play the cue precisely on time in our application, without ANY surprises. X2 currently provides that for us. Would love to use X3 though and hopefully the next update will bring back the reliability.
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Atsuko
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 18, 13 6:46 PM
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JCody,
you could install X3, anyway; there's no problem to have the previous Sonar versions together in the machine. This way, you could start enjoying X3 while using the X2's or any previous version's playlist.
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joden
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 18, 13 9:12 PM
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@ CW come on guys can you not do anything to bring Playlist up to scratch?
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Splat
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 18, 13 9:19 PM
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Well Cake really gave us a lot of fixes in X3D, hopefully X3E now. I totally understand the frustration.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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mettelus
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 18, 13 11:28 PM
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JCody
I reality, I use Sonar to run "live" theatrical performances, and have been doing so for over 10 years. Quite successfully I might add. It has been incredibly reliable. [...] Sonar sends midi time code to the light board, program changes to the digital mixing console, passes plug-in effects through it to the performers mics, and plays the music and sound effects. It's the heart of our tech. One technician can control an entire production, lights, sound, and special effects running through Sonar....
Thank you for the response. I have never done this, and asked about it one day and got a reply on why another would/could not do it. I simply took that advice as gospel, so your post is an eye opener for me. Back to your OP... definitely an issue that affects workflow dramatically, IMHO.
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joden
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 19, 13 2:58 PM
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Now it might be just me but has anyone else noticed that no CW staff have ever made comment on this? They pop up on many other issues, but not this one...why? Probs because Playlist is only in Sonar because they just have not bothered to remove it from the code. I do not think it is ever going to change as CW staff obviously think there is no advantage in changing it, and I daresay it has not even been looked at for many MANY years!
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JCody
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 19, 13 3:26 PM
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Actually they have made improvements recently. They added lots of columns in X2 that gave you more information and functionality. The only problem was (and I reported it) was that when you arranged the columns the way you liked them and then saved the playlist, the changes wouldn't save. This problem wasn't a showstopper but they DID fix it in X3. However since that fix, the new (much worse) problems appeared. They obviously have been working on the Playlist. It just needs a little love right now . . . well actually it needs a whole lotta love.
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JCody
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 19, 13 3:33 PM
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Also Ryan Munnis said this on another thread regarding the playlist.
"It doesn't mean we don't care about the issue, it just didn't make it into this update unfortunately."
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joden
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 19, 13 6:09 PM
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JCody
Also Ryan Munnis said this on another thread regarding the playlist.
"It doesn't mean we don't care about the issue, it just didn't make it into this update unfortunately."
Yeah I read that and thought "well exactly WHICH update is it going to make it into?" It is still clunky, glitchy and a bit of a PITA to use. Especially when compared to the slick offerings on iOS with the iPad. However with the iPad I am sorta restricted to having everything as MP3 data. I would MUCH rather use the lappy and Sonar at gigs and get all the flexibility of MIDI and audio combined in one onstage app...
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joden
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 20, 13 12:56 AM
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And still no word from those at CW 
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trnfoot
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 21, 13 5:58 PM
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+1 on the need to address this issue PLEASE!!!!
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Anderton
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 21, 13 6:03 PM
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joden
And still no word from those at CW
Not true. See post #17. Reality check: Sonar X3d was just released a few days ago. I highly doubt they've already nailed down all aspects of whatever future updates will contain so that they can answer all questions about future updates authoritatively. I also highly doubt that this is decided by a single person who answers questions in the forums. Software design simply does not work that way; it's a team effort that involves taking multiple factors into account. Consider that if you haven't gotten an answer, it's almost certainly because there is no definitive answer yet.
post edited by Anderton - December 21, 13 6:11 PM
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joden
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 21, 13 7:28 PM
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Understand you now need to "fly the flag" Craig, but chill down, no angst or malice here...merely asking legitimate questions in the hope of getting legitimate answers and not fob-offs or justifications.
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Anderton
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 21, 13 8:02 PM
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joden
Understand you now need to "fly the flag" Craig, but chill down, no angst or malice here...merely asking legitimate questions in the hope of getting legitimate answers and not fob-offs or justifications.
Not a question of flying the flag, but there are already two threads on this subject and I found it disingenuous for you to say there was no word from Cakewalk when you quoted what Cakewalk said about the situation. The legitimate question has been asked. You received a legitimate answer. Not liking the answer Cakewalk provided is not the same as Cakewalk not providing an answer. In my last post I attempted to explain further what elements would prevent a definitive answer from being given at the present time. I do not ascribe angst or malice to your continuing to ask the question, but you really need to accept that the legitimate answer is that there is no answer yet. You heard it from Ryan, you've heard it from me, and I highly doubt you are going to find out anything more specific until either the update process is further along, or the update is actually released. Cakewalk is very skittish, and rightfully so, about making promises that anything specific is going to happen until the QC process is complete.
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Splat
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 21, 13 8:37 PM
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Atsuko
JCody,
you could install X3, anyway; there's no problem to have the previous Sonar versions together in the machine. This way, you could start enjoying X3 while using the X2's or any previous version's playlist.
SIDESTEP.... Hi Ane Well somebody has to start this. I like lists... Seriously you are a breath of fresh air.... Would you mind posting on this thread and frightening the living daylight of these people, you could be the first +1? http://forum.cakewalk.com/Women-m2950326.aspx They need a shock :) Cheers... On with the thread....
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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joden
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 22, 13 0:58 PM
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Anderton
joden
Understand you now need to "fly the flag" Craig, but chill down, no angst or malice here...merely asking legitimate questions in the hope of getting legitimate answers and not fob-offs or justifications.
Not a question of flying the flag, but there are already two threads on this subject and I found it disingenuous for you to say there was no word from Cakewalk when you quoted what Cakewalk said about the situation. The legitimate question has been asked. You received a legitimate answer. Not liking the answer Cakewalk provided is not the same as Cakewalk not providing an answer.
In my last post I attempted to explain further what elements would prevent a definitive answer from being given at the present time.
I do not ascribe angst or malice to your continuing to ask the question, but you really need to accept that the legitimate answer is that there is no answer yet. You heard it from Ryan, you've heard it from me, and I highly doubt you are going to find out anything more specific until either the update process is further along, or the update is actually released. Cakewalk is very skittish, and rightfully so, about making promises that anything specific is going to happen until the QC process is complete.
No probs thanks Craig - that's about all we need to say on this :-)
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joden
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Re: Playlist still broken
December 22, 13 1:00 AM
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I won't add any more now...just wanted to put it out there and keep the thread going to show that there are a few folks who would appreciate it. A minority I agree, but still a part of the user base.
Peace , out!
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Jekyll Vance
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Re: Playlist still broken
January 09, 14 7:25 AM
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Hello guys, I'm also highly interested in properly working playlist feature. I think that playlist in Sonar is unique and powerful feature, that makes difference with other DAWs (if someone is aware of similar functionality in another DAW, please let me know).
What concerns me the most (since 8.5.3) is that I used to got occasional crashes and dropouts when running memory-heavy projects in playlist. I came to the conclusion that the cause of it was accumulating memory usage that eventually lead to overload (when next project was loaded, previous one wasn't completely unloaded from the memory, like expected), so I considered Sonar the culprit. But lately I evolved with another version that this might be caused by GTR3 plugin that I used in most projects.
Those of you who use playlist, please report, do you experience the same with Sonar X3d (does in unload projects from the memory correctly?) and is it reliable enough in a live gig situation
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Jekyll Vance
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Re: Playlist still broken
January 09, 14 7:41 AM
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And a couple of suggestions on playlist:
1) Annoying inconvenience: when "wait for keypress" mode is assigned for song, after hitting spacebar window is popping up with a "ding" sound, saying "start next song?". I really don't see any necessity in this window as it takes one more step during live session to agree with it by hitting the enter button, and the associated ding sound notification is absolutely unwanted (it goes to master output and I doubt that public will appreciate this sound at the start of each track). So, we need at least a possibility to disable this confirmation. And now people report the bug resulting that the song doesn't start immediately even after pressing confirmation... no good
2) Also, it would be nice to have an option to bind "play" function to MIDI-keyboard button. Now I can start playlist only by pressing Enter command from computer keyboard, so I can't go far from your notebook during gig.
3) there's "keep on top" option, but why no "floating window" mode for playlist? I.e. when you work with playlist view you have no alternative but having your projects in “windowed” mode. I’d prefer to see playing projects in fullscreen and playlist view, as any regular view, floating on top of them, enabling X-ray for playlist view will be also appreciated.
4) In X3 possibility to copy project entry with ctrl-drag is gone. It's not that necessary, but sometimes handy, any reason why it's not there anymore?
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Playlist still broken
January 09, 14 9:34 AM
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I post this simply to offer a potential additional way to kick songs off in a live format, including lighting commands and all of that, and able to be triggered from either the computer, or also from keys/buttons on a midi controller. I use a program called Forte, from a company called Brain Spawn, to act as a really full-featured performance manager. www.brainspawn.com They have a free demo. I have used this live for going on 6-7 years now, and it is fabulous. It's whole purpose in life is to allow incredibly complex presets, mapping, and embedded commands, and is quite judicious in its memory use - not only of its code, but in how it manages memory of loaded synths (I mostly used it for live performance of tunes and it is a really really good preset manager for giant racks of VST synths and effects). Anyways, it's at the above link, should anyone be interested. For me, I found it to be a lot less resource demanding than Sonar for live performance purposes. No dumping on Sonar here - I LOVE Sonar - I simply found Forte to fit my particular needs when I was trying to squeeze the most out of a 32-bit XP Pro laptop. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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JCody
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Re: Playlist still broken
January 09, 14 9:35 AM
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As for the annoying ding, just disable windows sounds. As for X3, I can't use it live until its fixed. The wait for keypress command is all messed up, requiring a second keypress to start the song. It works great in X2 and works great in a mission critical live show. It's the heart of our tech and runs our live shows 7+ times a week.
You mentioned in an earlier post the problem of the playlist keeping songs loaded that have already played. That will happen if any changes take place in the song while it's playing. I also find that if the song has automation in it, it stays loaded. We had a situation years ago when we were using a controller for live mixing that made changes in each song as it was playing. The loaded songs kept piling up and before long the computer got sluggish. We always had to close down all the loaded songs at intermission to get things snappy again. We don't use the controller anymore. I think it's supposed behave that way so that we can save our changes, but since it's a live situation I would be happy with an option to turn that behavior off. But most of all I would like to see the playlist fixed in the next update so that it works like it did before X3 broke it.
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