It's a "no" from me.
Please invest the development dollars where it counts.

jpetersen
"All users of sonar"?
What percentage of us can even read music notation?

I am.

Anderton

Kamikaze
Still don't care, because. The above is not relevant, all the above is completely off topic.

 
Another intelligent, insightful statement. 
 
Your gratuitous comment about "And meanwhile brag about how they listened to us" was what steered the thread off-topic and had nothing to do with the OP. It's YOU who doubled down on your comment, and YOU who took me up on my offer to prove you wrong.
 
And now you're complaining that I took the time to address your comments in a meaningful manner. Point taken. I'm wasting my time. It is not possible to reason people out of positions they did not use reason to attain.

^^^This - (in bold) C you are on a hiding to nothing when trying logic (haha no pun!!) or valid arguments. It's their opinion (DAMN STRAIGHT!!) and don't you forget it either

 

I would love to see an improved Staff View. I would definitely use it for composing.

I use the staff view to help me do simple note entry and to help me learn about music. I do agree that restoring some of the earlier functionality (dedicated controls) would be useful. Would it make sense to have some development resources focused sometime in the next year on making it easier to connect Sonar to external notation products? I have seen comments that using Rewire can be daunting, but I haven't explored that in detail myself.

When you click on Products > Sonar The first Graphic is titled compose. And contains Staff View. Click on Features and at the top of the page is Staff View
"Compose!
Score your music with SONAR’s integrated staff view - ideal for songwriters and composers"
 
Yet it's had minimal fixes in the last decade and no improvements. I don't even think their has evr been a decent video tutorial made on how to use it.
 
I'm in the 'Make it better' camp, not the 'I want to replace Sibelius'.
 
When I started with Cakewalk, I couldn't read music, never thought my musical path would have had me learning Flute and Sax, I was into Electronic music, so my fairly recent move into both Bass and Guitars has surprised me.   My primary midi input instrument is the WX5 (midi sax).
 
In learning the flute, I would find sheet music to learn songs I liked. So many times I sat down to input the music onto staff view to help me learn the phrasing, and assure myself it was the right note. I used to have a baritone sax as well, so I had instruments in C (Flute), G (Alto Flute) Bb (Soprano) and Eb (baritone). So with the majority of sheet music in C, I had to learn to transpose, so being able to input sheet music into Sonar would have been as very helpful for me. So many times I just felt like I wasted most of the day banging my head against the wall. It's far from intuitive and WTF things happen all the times that undermine your confidence.
 
The sheet music would range from things like Chill Peppers to Al Green to Miles. Many of the books were aimed at guitarists, who generally just need the tabs they contained. But these books I would have thought would have been useful, for those who wanted to input the melody so they could play the chords along, make covers, and have something to learn with.
 
If you start learning music theory, then learning to to understand the staff is really useful, partly because so many youtube videos will be explained from a staff point of veiw. Seeing how harmonies stack up is much clearer than piano roll.
 
So from a learning point of view, and developing as a musician, staff view could be abetter asset with some time put into it.
 
We don't know the percentage of musicians that sight read, but for those that do, and grew up with a school education on playing an instrument, then for those it should be developed. Why should they initially struggle with Piano Role view because so many are guitarists with no care for understanding how to read a staff, when the staff IS and HAS been the standard of communicating music to musicians. If they came here and said 'Hey, I've been playing violin since I was seven and am thinking about using SONAR for creating some compositions, is SONAR and good choice for me?' I think there would be a fair amount of posts suggesting that due to the neglect of staff view, that other options would be advised.
 
When I watch technique videos from classically trained musicians it's often, a Mac in the background. This is the new market for SONAR, so why should they choose SONAR of ProTools or LOGIC?
 
With the rise of computing power an the ability of sample libraries to replicate orchestras, it seems more and more people are getting into make 'Film' scores. Being able to scetch out the idea in staff view for these types of instruments seems the obvious choice, and learn how it works over a piano roll.  A poster once wrote a case for staff view saying it's easier to see where instruments clash when you have the staff in front of you, or where the gaps are. I won't be able to replicate his argument but it was extensive, and eye opening.
 
In researching sample libraries I often see the argument that the key to making a bunch of sampled instruments sound real is having a real one amongst them. Seems rock guys (Sonars base group I guess) like have a string quartet playing a section. Well, if you composed something for a single player or a group of them to play, you'd want a staff print out. Same for Horn sections too.
 
It's seems a very myopic argument to think because you don't need it now, then it not best for you or SONAR in to at least spend a little time on it. A percentage of time that reflects the percentage of users.
 
I don't use live drums, I didn't need drum replacer, hwat percentage of users do? Theme Editor is just for Platinum users, whats the percentage of platinum users? What percentage of users are regularly using Vocal Sync?
 
The fact it's in SONAR, cakewalk use it as a selling point, there IS a percentage of users that do sight read or see the benefit of staff view, that there has been long standing pleas for some kind of development over and over again for something that has has next to nothing for over a decade, should be enough to give it some love.
 
And if you can't sight read, and don't understand a staff, then maybe the argument is that maybe you should before arguing against the standards in music communications that is frankly here to to stay. You never know when maybe you'll get an urge to pick up a trumpet, cello etc  to expand you musical vocabulary.

Although I only use Staff View in a minority of my projects, I would hate not to have it available. SV can be better than Piano Roll View in some situations. Often it is helpful to be able to view several midi tracks and see them separated out. SV can do this for you, as it displays each individual instrument on separate staves. If you are working on an arrangement that involves different instruments playing unison notes or overlapping phrases, PRV can look too cluttered and confusing, whereas SV can show you more clearly what you need to see. Displaying the two views side by side can be useful too, with PRV zoomed in for detailed edited while SV helps you keep track of where you are without needing to keep zooming in and out in PRV.
 
I urge those who think that SV is not for them to try using it. It's just another tool that anyone can use. Stop thinking of it as belonging to some elite minority.

Kev999
Although I only use Staff View in a minority of my projects, I would hate not to have it available. SV can be better than Piano Roll View in some situations. Often it is helpful to be able to view several midi tracks and see them separated out. SV can do this for you, as it displays each individual instrument on separate staves. If you are working on an arrangement that involves different instruments playing unison notes or overlapping phrases, PRV can look too cluttered and confusing, whereas SV can show you more clearly what you need to see. Displaying the two views side by side can be useful too, with PRV zoomed in for detailed edited while SV helps you keep track of where you are without needing to keep zooming in and out in PRV.
 
I urge those who think that SV is not for them to try using it. It's just another tool that anyone can use. Stop thinking of it as belonging to some elite minority.

+1
I own several notation programs (and cartloads of audio plugins and soft synths) and invested several hundred dollars (thousands if you include plugs, vsti's and DAWS) in doing so. I also bought Sonar's lifetime updates. My investment in trying to find a workable staff view in SONAR includes the latest Notion 6 with Rewire Midi.
In the end, the notation "plug in solution" being touted by so many is not an effective/workable one, compared to using the built in Staff View for EDITING. Most/many users are only asking for restoration of former funationality and fixes to remaining bugs in an EXISTING feature of Sonar.

I personally would vote AGAINST the development of full-blown (Sibeius-like) notation within the Sonar core application.
For the record the implication that staff view users are just too cheap to buy the necessary 3rd party "plugin" is insulting. There is no plugin option.

I'm just going to throw it out there:
these guys: http://www.fortenotation.com/en/ are coming up with quite a nice product which is still pretty young by today's standards (even tho I seem to remember that Forte already was a name in the game). It would be safe to say that they are looking to gain traction and popularity. Maybe the Cakewalk guys can have a word with them?
Also, I see many people saying that they don't need the staff view and feel they are the majority. That is absolutely true, but wouldn't it be because throughout the years Sonar's staff facilities have built a reputation of mediocrity? That way all those who needed to choose a DAW that integrated traditional music writing, had to choose something else by default. So of course they are not here! Wouldn't it be nice to offer them a valid alternative? I know I had to cave in and buy Cubase, and I LOVE Sonar (and dislike Cubase).

Theme Editor is Platinum user only. It replaced something that originally available to all users. I was disappointed to find that not everyone could use it. Only a small percentage of a percentage probably do.

eph221
At a minimum it'd be nice to be able to see staff view on a full page, like one can on Pro Tools.  Or can we already?  Maybe I just don't know how to use it.  The ability to compose in Sonar, click a button and have the entire piece print ready on staff paper would be amazing.  I think that's asking too much.

In X3, I opened the Staff, selected Print>Print Preview which gave me a full-page display of the score. Minimized it. I then opened the PRV and entered a few more notes which were displayed in the preview when I maximized it again.

Back in the 90s I used to do a lot of mouse-click composition with the staff view.  The tools available in Cakewalk for working with the staff view, albeit simple, were much better and easier to use back then. I'm a visual person and it was much easier to use my knowledge of music theory while composing. Meanwhile piano view does nothing for me.
 
Cakewalk doesn't need to provide the abilities to print orchestral scores or anything, but having a basic staff view/editor should be part of the basic package.
 
Last week I plunked down the $200 to upgrade to Premium, but I seriously considered switching DAWs, and one of the reasons was the clunky staff view.
 
Anyways, Cakewalk won this round but just because I get frustrated learning a new DAW and it was $200 vs. $700.

Kamikaze
Wow, looking at you signature, and reading your post, was that the PC you started on. DeJa Vu for me, as the same specs as my first. Even the 3.11 Windows, which I believe was for Workgroups, instead of 3.1. I had 3.11 as the software came from me Uni IT department.

And a 16bit sound blaster with mpu401 midi interface! It wasnt an Osbourne PC by any chance? Oh the memories.....and the nightmares! Midi timing after moving from DOS to windows 3.1 was horrible:)

Kamikaze
 
Little Side Story: My 5 year old nephew came up to me and after looking at the Cakewalk Screen, asked "Does it really weigh 12 tonnes?"

 
Haha - gold!