vmw
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Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
There is an argument most of us have seen pop up from time to time as to whether a staff view should be in a DAW. For once let us conduct this simple request without all the pros and cons and upvote Sonar so they can see it makes a good sales point and makes a number of users very happy. Give cake a little push to devote some serious coding to produce a decent usable staff editor.
Regardless of what you think of Protools I urge you to go to their sight and see the Lynda.com demo of Protools 11 Score Editor, which is already a version behing the current release. The layout and time saving processes in many ways gives the same flexibility and logical behaviour as the Sonar piano roll view.
Protools competes in the same marketing sector as Sonar (right down to a monthly sub) and sad to say Protools is winning the race, which is further embedding it as the the pro engineer's tool of choice.
I along, I am sure, with others that don't have a need for some features in the Sonar DAW; but nonetheless will support a fellow Sonar user. Don't divide or fragment our efforts, instead we should be building a killer feature (if just to stick it to Protools smugness).
As I said at the start let us not use this issue as an excuse to push some other agenda - 1 progression at a time so as to NOT overburden the code engineer's meetings. :-)
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microapp
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/11 20:31:58
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I really don't know what more the user base could do to support staff view mods in Sonar. There are 10's if not 100's of threads on this subject going back years. I have given up on this because Cake is gonna do what they are gonna do. I kept hoping for a surprise announcement (like the reversal on Mac OSX Alpha) but I have given up even hoping. A major reason I bought Cubase was the notation.
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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Anderton
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/11 21:45:03
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I don't think the bottleneck is convincing Cakewalk to spend development time on staff view, but convincing Cakewalk not to spend development time on enhancing aspects of the program they believe are wanted by the greatest number of users. (Also, what exists is sufficiently functional for many users; e.g., see the article "Anatomy of a SONAR Project: Virtual Harmonics" in the February eZine.) PLEASE don't interpret the above as my saying I wouldn't want to see a world-class Staff View in SONAR - I would, if for no other reason than to appeal to the educational market, and to provide a competitive edge over DAWs that don't have a Staff View (e.g., Studio One, Ableton, Bitwig, Reason, etc.). Cakewalk can correct me if I'm wrong, but realistically I see only three ways an enhanced staff view could happen in the near future: - Technology, or a turnkey solution, becomes available that allows implementing an enhanced Staff View. The "turnkey solution" is basically what Avid did for Pro Tools; they bought Sibelius, so all they had to do was integrate existing code. OTOH new technology is what allowed a Mac version of SONAR to get off the ground (which underlines the "never say never" effect
 ). If a better Staff View does happen in the near future, my bet would be that one of these would be the reason, not Cakewalk taking developers off other projects to do Staff View. - There has been a change of priorities among the general SONAR user base, and a greater number of SONAR users now want Staff View enhancements compared to more general enhancements that are also time-consuming/complex (e.g., plug-in load balancing to allow loading more plug-ins with greater dropout resistance, better comping and take management, etc.).
- Instead of hiring more support people, which is the #1 priority for now, Cakewalk decides to leave support as is and shift resources to hiring developers who specialize in notation.
However - there are some pretty smart people on this forum, so just because I can't think of more options doesn't mean someone else won't.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/11 22:03:28
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microapp
I really don't know what more the user base could do to support staff view mods in Sonar. There are 10's if not 100's of threads on this subject going back years. I have given up on this because Cake is gonna do what they are gonna do. I kept hoping for a surprise announcement (like the reversal on Mac OSX Alpha) but I have given up even hoping. A major reason I bought Cubase was the notation.
And meanwhile brag about how they listened to us.
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Anderton
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/11 23:56:17
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Kamikaze
microapp
I really don't know what more the user base could do to support staff view mods in Sonar. There are 10's if not 100's of threads on this subject going back years. I have given up on this because Cake is gonna do what they are gonna do. I kept hoping for a surprise announcement (like the reversal on Mac OSX Alpha) but I have given up even hoping. A major reason I bought Cubase was the notation.
And meanwhile brag about how they listened to us.
If that's actually intended to be a serious comment, I'll take the time to give you a serious answer and list all the features and fixes that have been implemented in direct response to community requests. With all due respect, Microapp recognizes that different programs emphasize different features. Notation is very important to him, so he uses a program that, along with Logic, has emphasized notation since Day 1. People whose priority is a gapless audio engine use Live. People whose priority is exchanging files with studios that come from a 24-track 2" heritage and don't need advanced MIDI use Pro Tools. I use SONAR because my priority is being able to handle an extremely wide range of projects. And so on. Not only has Cakewalk never promised they would enhance staff view - so you can't say they're leading you on - Bill Jackson specifically stated Cakewalk's position in the last thread. Instead of saying "OK, thanks for being straight with us," the reaction from some Staff View advocates was essentially "that's not a good enough answer, we demand enhanced staff view because what we want is more important than what other people want." You're acting like Cakewalk could do notation easily, and they're just blowing you off. Nothing could be further from truth. Well, except for "Cakewalk doesn't listen to the community." For the record, I'll say it once more: I've love to see SONAR have a world-class Staff View. I'd also love to see Tesla cars cost $30,000 instead of what they cost now. Maybe someday they will, but I'd be wasting my time to gather a group of people to demand Tesla produce a $30,000 car. Granted, a huge breakthrough in battery technology could make it possible...but my asking for a $30,000 car isn't going to produce a breakthrough in battery technology. A breakthrough in battery technology will produce a $30,000 car.
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Anderton
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 00:17:36
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☄ Helpfulby Mitch_I 2016/08/12 12:09:09
Also for the record, I totally respect vmw's opinion and his motivation. It wasn't "all about me," it was all about making SONAR a better program, which we all want. The stumbling block is that different people have very different ideas about what would make SONAR a better program. The best Cakewalk can do is try to make the majority happy, because there aren't the resources to take care of everyone's requests. But there are also two fine points upon which I'd like to comment. The first is the appeal to all users of SONAR. Not all users want notation. Now, what's really cool about vmw is he makes it very clear that whether he needs a feature or not, he supports those users who want their pet features to happen. I think he's probably the kind of person who even if he didn't want synth recording, would be aware of the large number of requests for it, and feel a certain satisfaction that those people got what they wanted. But the problem is some requests are easy to satisfy, and some are difficult. Unfortunately notation belongs in the latter category...think of it as the MIDI guitar of software The second is that "Pro Tools is winning the race." Unfortunately, the entire industry is losing the race. Sales of DAWs and interfaces have declined year over year for the past five years, and Pro Tools continues to decline in absolute numbers as well; it's been difficult for programs that were dependent primarily on the Mac platform to survive in light of the Mac cutting the price of Logic to $199 and giving away GarageBand for free. I won't argue with those who believe Apple purposely devalued software so they could more easily sell high-margin hardware. Pro Tools remains the big fish, but it's in an ever-smaller pond...furthermore, the number of interfaces sold vastly outnumbers the number of DAWs sold. So either people who own DAWs like to buy several new interfaces every year, or people are stealing software but they can't steal an interface, so they have to buy one. Cakewalk is actually bucking the downward trend. And there are some companies that are doing very well, like Focusrite and Universal Audio. But, survival in this market is like walking a tightrope, and anything can happen. The problem with notation that keeps being glossed over is that it's very difficult to get right. If it was easy, I assume Avid and PreSonus would have hired a couple programmers to write a great staff view instead of coughing up the money to buy Sibelius and Notion respectively (and even with Notion, SOP still doesn't have a staff view. That's not a knock on PreSonus, just an indication that it's not easy). Reality is not always the way we like it. If we can change it, so much the better. But some aspects are easier to change than others, like notation...and human nature
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Royal Yaksman
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 00:36:19
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vmw
Protools competes in the same marketing sector as Sonar (right down to a monthly sub) and sad to say Protools is winning the race, which is further embedding it as the the pro engineer's tool of choice.
The fault in the logic of statements like the above, is that appealing to engineers gets you a very small percentage of the market, compared to DIY users and musicians. That means less development dollars. If professionals alone, could support a product like a modern DAW? Then Avid's profits wouldn't be going down the toilet! Engineers might like it, but most DIY engineers and musos seem to find PT clunky. Also the user market for notation products is tiny and if Avid are winning that race against Sonar? They're winning a very tiny race! Don't get me wrong, I'm not against notation. Like Craig, I wouldn't mind seeing a better staff, drum and score view, but I wouldn't want them to halt everything else to make a better score editor. Other notation programs took entire teams to create them and Avid didn't make their own. They brought one and bolted it on. Similarly Steinberg hired the old sibelius team to create Dorico. So instead of asking Cake to make one that's better, you should be appealing to Gibson to buy something like Finale and bolt it onto Sonar.
post edited by Royal Yaksman - 2016/08/12 00:58:37
Royal Yaksman HP Phoenix i7 3.9ghz 7600 - Roland Quad Capture - CbB - SD2 Metal Foundry/Roots Stix - NI Komplete 8 - Amplitube 3 & 4 - Addictive Drums 2 - Halion 6 - Izotope Musician Bundle - Waves Stuff - Melodyne Studio - AIR 3 - Revoice 3 - Sssshhhhh don't tell anyone but also Studio One 4 - Cubase 9.5 - Samplitude Pro X3 - FL Studio 20 - Mixbus 4 - Reaper 5 - And a big arsed pocket full of dreams (deceased or otherwise.)
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microapp
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 01:32:59
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Anderton
I don't think the bottleneck is convincing Cakewalk to spend development time on staff view, but convincing Cakewalk not to spend development time on enhancing aspects of the program they believe are wanted by the greatest number of users.
Exactly, Craig. I think by now Cakewalk has a fairly accurate idea of the interest in notation for every type of Sonar user. It is not like nobody ever mentioned it. They have at least an estimate of potential income vs development cost. It is up to them to make a business judgment. They chose other things as being more important than notation at least for now. If there was a choice between Mac OSX support and notation I would choose OSX support (and there is no chance whatsoever I will ever buy a Mac). It is simply a better business decision and Cakewalk most likely has some data to back it up.. I would prefer they ignore notation completely if it is not possible to produce a top-notch product and notation is NOT that easy.
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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Kamikaze
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 09:08:49
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Anderton
Kamikaze
And meanwhile brag about how they listened to us.
If that's actually intended to be a serious comment........
Yes it was, and I don't really care about what followed
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Anderton
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 10:13:38
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Kamikaze
Anderton
Kamikaze
And meanwhile brag about how they listened to us.
If that's actually intended to be a serious comment........
Yes it was Then refer to the end of this post. I didn't take the time to research all the bug fixes that have been collected in the eZine but you're welcome to look through them. You'll recognize dozens of fixes that were first brought up in the forums. Also look for the threads where people mentioned gratitude for fixes that were made. and I don't really care about what followed Of course not! Why care about a detailed, logical post when making snarky, misleading statements is so much easier? All of the following were requested by the community. Of course there were also additions that weren’t requested by the community, but have turned out to been very popular (e.g., VocalSync, Smart Swipe, Mix Recall, better ARA integration - this allows for features like superior tempo extraction, IRs for ReMatrix Solo, etc.). - Synth recording
- Greater color customization
- Comping and take lane improvements
- Mac OS X version
- Better plug-in management
- More mastering capabilities
- QWERTY keyboard controller (Cakewalk added a touch virtual keyboard as well, although few people had asked for it)
- Monthly payment plans
- Free update from TH2 to TH3
- Additional themes
- Staff view fixes
- Better logic for instrument solo and drum maps
- More default colors in the color picker
- Tempo extraction - the ability to sync to tracks played in free time
- Aux tracks and patch points
- Numerous speed optimizations
- MIDI Engine enhancements that eliminated stuck notes
- Relative Video path
- Upsampling
- Windows 10 compatibility (the day it was released, FYI)
- Drum Replacer
- Enhancements to Mix Recall
...and read the list of bug fixes in the eZine, most of which were user-driven. Saying Cakewalk hasn't been listening to what the community wants is absurd. Some could even argue that because Cakewalk has done the above instead of enhancing Staff View, they have indeed been listening to the community.
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Anderton
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 10:32:13
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microapp
I would prefer they ignore notation completely if it is not possible to produce a top-notch product and notation is NOT that easy. Well... no promises, but as I mentioned in a different thread, I've been independently researching a possible way to add high-quality notation that would require minimum dev time (no, it doesn't involve my buying Sibelius from Avid). I've always been a strong and consistent advocate of improved notation, even while being a stronger advocate for making decisions that improve the overall health of the program and the company - a fact that seems lost on some people. That's one reason why it's so frustrating to hear people b*tch and moan about Cakewalk not caring about notation, "not listening to the community," etc. Cakewalk cares very much about notation. They just don't care enough about it to upset the vast majority of the community because of all the other things that wouldn't happen if Cakewalk diverted its existing resources to doing notation. As you point out, it's not easy. I realize the fans of Staff View don't believe this, but user surveys show that the customer base simply does not place a high priority on notation. Forum threads about notation with lots of posts, where over 40 posts are from a single user to give the illusion that there's a groundswell of support due to the high post count, are anecdotal compared to user surveys of the entire community, taking with proper sampling methodology. That's reality. One could make the argument that adding better notation would attract new users, but there is zero market data that supports that supposition; in fact, it shows the opposite when you consider that programs without notation are doing just fine, and some are doing extraordinarily well. You also hit a very salient point with this comment (are you privy to internal discussions at Cakewalk?): I would prefer they ignore notation completely if it is not possible to produce a top-notch product and notation is NOT that easy. For Cakewalk, notation is either keep what's there, or go for something really good. The company has no interest in a half-baked solution, nor should they IMHO.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 10:32:38
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Still don't care, because. The above is not relevant, all the above is completely off topic.
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Anderton
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 10:41:42
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Kamikaze
Still don't care, because. The above is not relevant, all the above is completely off topic. Another intelligent, insightful statement. Your gratuitous comment about "And meanwhile brag about how they listened to us" was what steered the thread off-topic and had nothing to do with the OP. It's YOU who doubled down on your comment, and YOU who took me up on my offer to prove you wrong. And now you're complaining that I took the time to address your comments in a meaningful manner. Point taken. I'm wasting my time. It is not possible to reason people out of positions they did not use reason to attain.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 10:45:04
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Been here done this, it's a waste of time. You'll deride my comments as 'snarky' or 'gratuitous', it's not called for.
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Anderton
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 10:48:56
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Kamikaze
Been here done this, it's a waste of time. You'll deride my comments as 'snarky' or 'gratuitous', it's not called for.
It may not be called for, but I'm content to let others judge whether it's accurate or not. I'm actively pursuing a solution. That's my contribution. Your contribution to this thread has been to insult Cakewalk.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 10:56:48
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Grumbleweed_
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 10:58:40
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☄ Helpfulby jatoth 2016/08/13 17:25:52
I just want triplets! Grum
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Brian Walton
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 11:22:12
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vmw
There is an argument most of us have seen pop up from time to time as to whether a staff view should be in a DAW. For once let us conduct this simple request without all the pros and cons and upvote Sonar so they can see it makes a good sales point and makes a number of users very happy. Give cake a little push to devote some serious coding to produce a decent usable staff editor.
Regardless of what you think of Protools I urge you to go to their sight and see the Lynda.com demo of Protools 11 Score Editor, which is already a version behing the current release. The layout and time saving processes in many ways gives the same flexibility and logical behaviour as the Sonar piano roll view.
Protools competes in the same marketing sector as Sonar (right down to a monthly sub) and sad to say Protools is winning the race, which is further embedding it as the the pro engineer's tool of choice.
I along, I am sure, with others that don't have a need for some features in the Sonar DAW; but nonetheless will support a fellow Sonar user. Don't divide or fragment our efforts, instead we should be building a killer feature (if just to stick it to Protools smugness).
As I said at the start let us not use this issue as an excuse to push some other agenda - 1 progression at a time so as to NOT overburden the code engineer's meetings. :-)
Only a small subset of all DAW owners (of any kind) use Staff View as the main entry point of information into the system. A staff view should be in a full featured DAW, who would argue otherwise? Sonar has one, it just isn't exactly what you apparently want. If you think ProTools and Sonar have the same "subscription model" you might want to read the fine print. And you mentioned "engineer" tool of choice.....audio engineering has nothing to do with a composition tool. I hope you find a tool that works for you, but I wouldn't wait around for Sonar to put in the development time to enhance a feature few people use.
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patm300e
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 11:47:46
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 SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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jsg
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 16:47:54
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☄ Helpfulby Elffin 2016/10/12 18:12:38
It would be nice if CW fixes the snap-to function in the staff view, which has been broken for several versions. I've submitted a bug report, but it hasn't helped... JG www.jerrygerber.com
post edited by jsg - 2016/08/12 17:46:36
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FCCfirstclass
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/12 17:01:30
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The new version of Finale, called Finale, has Rewire support for Sonar and will be 64 bit.
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meh
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/13 10:34:30
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☄ Helpfulby jatoth 2016/08/13 17:27:14
I am just perplexed as to why we would get something like the theme editor which has nothing to do with making music vs enhancement to staff view which was the reason I originally bought cakewalk.
rafone
SONAR Version 2017.09
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rabeach
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/13 10:49:37
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microapp
...
I would prefer they ignore notation completely if it is not possible to produce a top-notch product and notation is NOT that easy.
+1 at this point I would prefer a third party nicely integrated similar to the way melodyne is
post edited by rabeach - 2016/08/13 11:12:25
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Beepster
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/13 11:04:08
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meh
I am just perplexed as to why we would get something like the theme editor which has nothing to do with making music vs enhancement to staff view which was the reason I originally bought cakewalk.
rafone
More color options was an EXTREMELY common user request ever since the X series was released. Way more people were freaking about that than notation options. Also it was probably much less problematic to create than a Staff View redesign. Notice how many themes threads are going on lately? I personally don't care about color schemes so much and would definitely prefer a really nice notation function instead but it seems to have made a LOT of users REALLY happy. From Cakewalk's perspective that's a pretty big win. Myself, I don't use notation for my writing/producing but it will be crucial for some of my educational materials (for myself and students). I was going to maybe pick up Cubase Elements specifically for notation work but Reaper added a notation input feature a while back. Someday I'm going to try Rewiring Reaper into Sonar. Not sure if it'll work that way but it'll be a good chance for me to learn about Rewire and check out how good the Reap's staff thingie is. In the meantime I still think Cake should partner up with a proper notation company (like they do with VST manufacturers) to design/include a "light" version of their MIDI notation program with an option to upgrade to a better package. Integrate it all completely like what has been done with Melodyne. My personal preference as to WHICH company they should use is different than others but I think it would work MUCH better for more people and possibly be an easier company to talk into this type of partnership. That would be GuitarPro. I haven't used it for YEARS but even back in the day it had really nice notation, multitrack scoring, MIDI output, etc. BUT... it also has absolutely top tier guitar tab input. Not sure what the other notation programs offer in that regard but that in itself would definitely benefit the HUGE swath of guitar dorks (like me!) who use Sonar. Pwetty pweeze, Cakesters? Edit: I seem to recall someone mentioning that GuitarPro was already affiliated with a competitor though. Not sure if I'm thinking of something else but it was a while back (I think before the Gibson take over). It would make wicked sense for a company like Gibson to buy up GP though and slap it into its pet DAW. I bet Craig would know more about this... and maybe the clout to nudge the Gibby honchos into considering it.
post edited by Beepster - 2016/08/13 11:33:12
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Kamikaze
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/13 11:28:39
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meh
I am just perplexed as to why we would get something like the theme editor which has nothing to do with making music vs enhancement to staff view which was the reason I originally bought cakewalk.
rafone
slightly ironic that your profile pic of the performance meter, is one thing theme editor doesn't edit.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/13 13:17:20
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meh
I am just perplexed as to why we would get something like the theme editor which has nothing to do with making music vs enhancement to staff view which was the reason I originally bought cakewalk.
rafone
You would be surprised how many requests in other DAW forums always want a skinnable DAW.
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JayCee99
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/13 13:19:14
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/08/13 13:23:02
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Royal Yaksman
vmw
Protools competes in the same marketing sector as Sonar (right down to a monthly sub) and sad to say Protools is winning the race, which is further embedding it as the the pro engineer's tool of choice.
The fault in the logic of statements like the above, is that appealing to engineers gets you a very small percentage of the market, compared to DIY users and musicians.
That means less development dollars. If professionals alone, could support a product like a modern DAW? Then Avid's profits wouldn't be going down the toilet! Engineers might like it, but most DIY engineers and musos seem to find PT clunky.
Also the user market for notation products is tiny and if Avid are winning that race against Sonar? They're winning a very tiny race!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against notation. Like Craig, I wouldn't mind seeing a better staff, drum and score view, but I wouldn't want them to halt everything else to make a better score editor. Other notation programs took entire teams to create them and Avid didn't make their own. They brought one and bolted it on.
Similarly Steinberg hired the old sibelius team to create Dorico. So instead of asking Cake to make one that's better, you should be appealing to Gibson to buy something like Finale and bolt it onto Sonar.
Sonar lost the race a long time ago. The reason why there is little interest in Sonar's staff view is because users switched to Cubase. Googles searches give a lot of evidence. While I'm on the improve the staff view bandwagon, we are finding more ways to beat this dead horse. We know they listen and it's probably on the drawing board waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the road. Incorporating a notation program into a DAW probably isn't that easy because Presonus would have done that by now.
post edited by kitekrazy1 - 2016/08/13 13:49:07
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Sensibletom
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/10/04 01:00:22
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☄ Helpfulby bigfrog 2016/10/06 14:55:14
Many versions ago, staff view had basic editing tools, snap settings, note values and so on as buttons on its own window header. So much easier it was back then, than having to jump up to the main tools (ignoring shortcuts keys, because that's not how I work).
I used to compose a lot in staff view... freeform, ignorant, naive, drag notes around stuff, and I really enjoyed it. Now I don't enjoy it anywhere near as much. I've tried Sibelius, and spent a little bit of time in others. Don't do it for me. In my experience they seemed too formal, too much about printed pages and what's "musically correct" and not so much about the linear sequence of music flow. For instance, you simply couldn't drag notes around in both pitch and time with the same reckless abandon as you can in Sonar.
(This is not to say Sibelius and others are bad, just that they don't suit the way I make music)
So while we wait for Cake to come up with staff view heaven as a core part of Sonar, even a few simple changes to restore something we once had, like better range of tools and customisation of the toolbar for the staff view window... that would be lovely!
Meanwhile, thanks Cake for an awesome program!
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konradh
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Re: Plea of Support to all users of sonar.
2016/10/04 16:34:48
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I *have* to have Staff View. That is how I write and arrange everything.
That said, I don't know of any particular feature that is missing and causing me serious pain. There are a few things that don't work right in Staff, but I think it is my particular installation.
I use something else besides my working MIDI files for publisher-ready scores and just import MIDI from Cakewalk to get a head start.
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