Uber expensive equipment is impressive... but not necessary to achieve decent results. Hardware compression can be a huge benefit in some cases... give this a watch.

odd hardware and compressoin recording vocals

B4 DAWs and 24 bit A/D interfaces it was reasonable to use a compressor to get lots of signal on tape, by restricting peaks, thereby getting a better signal to noise ratio.

It makes little sense to do so with current digit stuff.

Unless you really cannot get the sound you desire by using the outboard stuff during mixing.

And: I always copy the original tracks for processing, chopping,.... And the original tracks are foldered and archived for just in case.

J

Or if your recording Gospel, you'll need holy underwear
Cj

djjhart@aol.com


I go  Comando  LOL.

did we really need that image??? 

OP-To answer your question regarding a side chain-
\
http://sonictransfer.com/...n-tutorial.shtml 

I noticed no one took the bait!

Another reason to use a compressor on vocals is to compensate for poor microphone technique. Some singers know how to move in closer or further away from the microphone depending on how loud they are singing the part, and others don't. A good quality compressor can help to even out the dynamics of the vocalist before it goes to "tape." Also some vocalists like to hear the compressor in their monitor mix; makes them think they are better singers, and of course if they give a better performance as a result that is a good thing.
 
Paul

I'm currently recording everything straight into the box and then applying compression etc. afterwards.

I've been thinking of getting outboard gear for some time and figure that I need a pre-amp and a compressor. I'm using low end gear and not expecting miracles from it so I'm going to buy some Behringer stuff to get me started - I figure I can buy both of the units I need for around the £150 mark which suits me fine.

I'll then have another two units to go into my rack (which currently only houses a Behringer headphone amp) - maybe I just like the pretty lights!

I know that people can be quite snobbish when it comes to Behringer stuff but I'm really just wanting to dip my toe in the water with outboard gear and see if it makes a difference.

Any thoughts or suggestions on super economy products that might fit the bill also?

I'm not hung up on having a tube pre-amp, a good solid state one would do me fine.

I'll have a look at the FMR stuff, thanks for the tip.

I always use a good amount of compression n the way in. My eureka sounds great with just pre and compression... then EQ to taste in the box. I bypass my EQ on the way in-

The important thing to keep in mind here is that, short of clipping on input, there isn't any real difference between doing compression on the way into the DAW or after as an effect. Here is what you're doing if you're doing compression on the way in.  This example is using one of my current signal chains (which, oddly enough, was referenced more or less exactly earlier in the thread)

U87 -> Great River Pre -> 1176 -> Lynx Aurora A/D - computer

And now the signal chain doing compression after as an external insert:

U87 -> Great River Pre -> Lynx Aurora A/D -> computer -> Lynx Aurora A/D -> 1176 -> Lynx Aurora A/D

The only difference here is a couple trips through the A/D.  It really doesn't have much/any practical difference on the end result as long as your A/D is reasonable.

I've done it both ways, it just depends on how comfortable you are with "printing" an effect.

Dean

It always amuses me that vocalists think engineers should just "figure it out" so that they can sing with wildly swinging volume dynamics.

Occasionally you run across someone who actually has control, and it is such a breathe of fresh air.

So, if you have to compress on the way in to help the untrained/unskilled vocalist, then you have to do what you have to do.

Using the compression for a specific effect is a whole other thing, and I would be printing two tracks in that scenario, one dry and one with the compression effect on it.

In terms of the what is Sub Chain/Insert question

Firstly an insert is a jack on teh back of a mixer that via a Y Jack allows you to take a send and return from one socket, so basically you can patch in an effect, think Send/return loop on an amp.

So in the old paradigm of a mixing desk your signal would hit the desk preamp, then its EQ then the fader (I am simplifying a bit here), that was your 'chain'

Now if an engineer was just not getting the sound they wnated from the board, they could put another chain of outboard together, and patch this in via the inserts, its a 'sub' chain, because its not built into the board.

Over the years with great sounding pre's and compressors coming into being and more importantly often adding real character and flavour to the recording, it became the norm to use a 'sub' chain although really it should probably have been renamed to 'super' chain :)

Now digital comes along and does away with the board in a lot of situtions, but people still use a 'sub' chain because of the character it imparts.

So in answer to the original question, should you use it, probably yes.

You can get away without it becuase of digital 24 bit yadda yadda, but there are 3 reasons why i would still use comp and possibly EQ

1) I have a great preamp or compressor available to me ie 1176 etc, because these are not just about reigning in dynamics, they just add a certain something to a recording, and why not get that straight away
2) Vocalist respond to it, in the same way that a guitarist will intuitively pick up on the fact that the harder he digs in with a valve amp the more tone he will get, a good vocalist will intuitively perform better with a good comp on there if done lightly
3) This more an argument for printing effects. There is nothing wrong with E1'ing or Compressing a vocal lightly when recording, this whole you can't  undo it thing is a big red herring. When you mic a guitarist amp, do you go in the live room and turn all his EQ knobs to 5, no you record his sound, you might then EQ it agin later to sit better in the mix. You can take the same approach with a vocal, record it so it sounds good to you, and then if necessary do some EQ to place it in the mix later.

G

Again, with Sonar there is no reason to settle on just recording the Compressed or EQ'd or "whatever it might be you are doing" to the signal, it costs nothing to record two tracks, one dry and one effected. If you really know what you are doing with printing effects that's great, if you are new and unsure then print one dry as well so you can always go back.

Same applies to guitar, if you record the dry guitar D.I. as well as the amp's mic'ed signal you have more options later, just in case.

Since this thread came up I'm not sure anyone has answered his question about "how to record" with a comp w/ his equipment.  Can't be done, unless the FA-66 has inserts.  Or he buys a separate preamp.  Preamp>Comp>Convertor.  The good thing is most interface preamps are pretty good.  The bad thing most don't have inserts so you can't put a comp or EQ in the chain.

Unless you are serious and have the cash, one is starting to talk some serious cash to get this done.  Comps start at $200 w/ the Really Nice Compressor or the Art opto for $300.  Preamps that are better than your good ole interfaces begin at $500 - again the really nice unit or the Focusrite ISA One (on sale again).  You can go lower if you do want to use a comp - teh M-Audio has a good reputation w/ a stereo unit  for $200 tho how much better than your interface's preamp is open to question.

So a stereo input would run at least $400.  Of course, you can "master" or at least raise levels with the RNC too, so it gets double duty.  But I went for years w/o any extra hardware - it was only when I started dropping $500-$1000 a unit I started feeling good (or broke, if you ask my wife).  Still, $400 to feel more confidant about recording isn't that much, but I would be happy to use my TC Konneck preamps to record sans comp - if I had to.

@

cannot get the same effect, by adding on a soft compressor after the fact....