Sijel

Alas, this is probably not a usual exercise.

I think your work is very useful since it shows Sonar can handle heavy loads when properly configured.
I've tried to replicate the OP's issue with Dim Pro with Trillian and Pentagon and using 3-4 plugins on each output track and I just don't see a problem. (Thank goodness for me but not for the OP).
 
I've been noticing that people that use other DAWs seem to have more problems than people that only run Sonar.  I suspect there may be inter-DAW conflicts or that they are using habits/settings/tricks/tips from other DAWs that aren't holding up well with Sonar.  Just a thesis at this point...
 

I don't believe other DAWs installed on a machine would affect SONAR's internal CPU meter in such a way, imo.  And with respect, Pentagon is a lightweight CPU synth compared to the ones I listed.  And Trillian is a sample based instrument, RAM-wise it's very intensive.  I have had no disk errors at all in SONAR, streaming/drop outs or otherwise.  Also, DimPro (as I've alluded to before in this thread) is a plug that really only adds to the stress of my project's load, it's not the plug that puts SONAR over the top intro dropout mode, it's just a headache when used with other CPU intensive plugs.

I use Stylus RMX and Trillian and the issues are nowhere NEAR what I've been describing, under most normal scenarios.  That again enforces my belief that it's a SONAR/CPU issue, not a disk streaming/RAM/memory problem.  That's not my issue with SONAR at the moment

I am glad you are not having problems :)  I am jealous my friend...

Benjamin - I am getting to the point where I suspect it will just be easier to switch permanently to Reaper, which is still running flawlessly under the same circs that is getting pops clicks dropouts and lord knows what else in Sonar.

I am putting nowhere near the load on my system that you are and yet I still have this unaccountable performance difference between Sonar and Reaper.
Oh, and I even dropped down to using the 32 bit versions of Reaper and Sonar to see if it made any difference.
It didnt.
Frankly, I am getting tired of being forced to become a software engineer when all I want to do is make music.

Sonar used to be pretty decent up to and including 6 prod, but I am really regretting buying the upgrade to 8.5.3 now.

ivanSC


Benjamin - I am getting to the point where I suspect it will just be easier to switch permanently to Reaper, which is still running flawlessly under the same circs that is getting pops clicks dropouts and lord knows what else in Sonar.

I am putting nowhere near the load on my system that you are and yet I still have this unaccountable performance difference between Sonar and Reaper.
Oh, and I even dropped down to using the 32 bit versions of Reaper and Sonar to see if it made any difference.
It didnt.
Frankly, I am getting tired of being forced to become a software engineer when all I want to do is make music.

Sonar used to be pretty decent up to and including 6 prod, but I am really regretting buying the upgrade to 8.5.3 now.

Well, honestly - personally, I'm not ready to give up on SONAR yet.  I have used it for so long, and have enjoyed a successful career as a composer/arranger (thanks to SONAR), and I am optimistic I can get to the bottom of this.  With the help of the awesome people here on the forums, and Cake support, we'll figure it out :)
I may enjoy Reaper's approach to DAWs, but I truly love the power and flow of SONAR - not to mention the GUI.

I'm sorry to hear you are having similar problems as I have.  There are many of out there, if that helps you at all.  I love the plugs that come with SONAR - truly powerful, professional results every time.  It's just an issue of CPU/synths these days.

Now that I have more free time (work has been brutal, end of summer) I'll just contact Cake and see what they suggest.

Thanks again everyone, I appreciate the help!

DID anyone having these issues tried my suggestion of switching the "64bit double precision engine" off?

IvanSC and Ben, I hear you.  I'm at my wits' end, too.  I thought that after uninstalling all the junkware on my new dedicated Sony Vaio I7 quadcore, I'd be in the clear.  And indeed, I got a couple of hours' smooth Sonaring after my last (optimistic) post.  But today, playing a song with my favorite collaborator (my 7-year-old daughter), the f-ing thing dropped out right at the second chorus and we had to stop, reset, restart Sonar, etc. etc. and at that point, neither of us was that into it anymore. 

I'm not much of a software engineer, and I don't want to become one.  I just want to make music -- that, for me, is hard enough!  I've been a longtime Cakewalk user (back to whatever version was available in the Windows 3 era) and there has always been a degree of tweaking involved, but for the first time, the angst of all that tweaking isn't being outstripped by the wonder and enjoyment of what this program can do.  In other words, I may finally be losing this battle. 

My last ditch attempt will be to try a new audio interface (my Presonus Firebox drivers have never been particularly stable, and it's conceivable that they could be the source of all of this).  That'll come with some lite DAW software, I'm sure.  Then I can A/B it against Sonar if necessary, and if it works glitch-free, I'll have my solution ...

The only thing I can say is because you all are running into the same problem it would be perhaps a good idea to compare systems and what you have in common. It could be a MB or some device you have in your system that is causing this problem.

Something is causing this. I do believe it is a very difficult issue as can be seen by the length of this thread and non ability to fix this.

There has to be a common denominator that would give some clue. Perhaps its some software that you each have on your system. I don't know clearly but because you all seem to unfortunately share the problem it would seem some what prudent to compare notes in a systematic way.

I am at a loss as to what is causing this. But I do think there is something you all have in common that is the cause.

I do hope that you do find an answer.

I am also sorry that I have nothing else to offer.   

Take a look...--->  http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2086193

Take no notice of Freddy - he just reads anything that seems like it might smack of un-64 bittedness and goes off on one.
Calm down, Freddy - I for one am using win7 64 bit and have tried both Sonar and Reaper 64 bit. Reaper works fine. Sonar doesnt. Happy?

I built my machine too, piece by piece.

Seems like that is a common theme too.
 
I've had near flawless operation with my Alienware box.  Your thread has seriously convinced me that the extra $200 it cost over building it myself from parts was $$ very well spent!

I assure you it's nothing to do with the barebones construction, with respect.  Sorry Sijel.

I just loaded one instance of Octopus in Reaper, and play around with a 24 voice pad.  The RT (Real Time) latency is about 40%, but "CPU" is only around 7%.

That proves that SONAR is indeed display the "Real Time" ASIO/CPU (40%)....and that's why it stutters and drops out.  If only there was a way for SONAR to follow Reaper's path and allow it to "see" and use the actual TOTAL CPU, vs. "RT CPU" (real time).   SONAR keeps insisting on abiding by the RT CPU....it's very frustrating.  I don't have to have the CPU display different, I don't care if it's always flickering, I just would like it to not drop out in the situation I uploaded below in the image.  That exactly project/instance of one VSTi, caused SONAR to drop out.  24 voice polyphony, one Octopus VSTi instance.  It is SONAR, not my NewEgg PC.

That's all it would take to fix this problem.  If you want a video, I'd be happy to screencast one.



See?  Reaper is guided by the actual CPU, not RT/Real Time CPU (which SONAR is guided by).  That's why I get constant drop outs in SONAR.  I wish the SONAR CPU was calibrated differently, and measured differently :(

The above image caused major drop outs in SONAR, yet smooth sailing in Reaper, and MiniHost.  It's a SONAR issue.  Somehow related to how SONAR interprets CPU usage. 

John -

SONAR can't seem to handle the CPU load from the VSTi synths I'm trying to use on a daily basis.  This in turn is hurting my workload as a composer/arranger.  It does hurt me John.  That's why I started this thread.  I only chose to ReWire Reaper into SONAR, as a temp fix, in order to load the synths I need to work with.  When I load any of the CPU-heavy synths in Reaper, and ReWire into SONAR - all is well.  SONAR's CPU meter barely registers.  That's great.  When I load those synths natively in SONAR, and only have SONAR open for my project, I get crackles/pops/and dropouts.  It's the way it goes.  Loading synths directly in SONAR is the problem.  Not the CPU visually, it's how it "reads" and reports the CPU usage.  I have zero problems with SONAR as far as recording audio, only when you use VSTi synths does SONAR fail.

I agree with you on the CPU issue - but I've said that before, I thought. I don't care what the CPU in shows visually - as long as it allows me to work with the synths, then that's fine :)  When SONAR "does its thing", that's the problem.  It's not doing it "right".  It's reporting the CPU fine, as you said - and I've always agreed with that John.  But it's not distributing the CPU load as other apps do, and that is killing me.  Whatever SONAR is doing with the CPU under the hood, that's the issue.  Look at other examples I've given please.

John: right now, Reaper, FL Studio, and MiniHost all "report" the same CPU as SONAR, % wise - yet SONAR is the only one of them that actually has dropouts and pops due to the CPU meter peaking. So, I'm sorry if I had not been clear in earlier posts.  But that's all I really need help with.  Getting SONAR to stop dropping out when other applications, under the exact same setup, do not fail - is my main priority. It's killing my business.  Without ReWiring Reaper at this time, my work would suffer tremendously.  But, as I've said many times, I am loyal to SONAR and am trying to work this out.  But, for now - I need a temp fix.  Thus, Reaper via ReWire. 

I am like the others.  CPU is getting in the way of literally every project I work on.  I just happen to be a VSTi/MIDI heavy composer-user.  I'm happy that you are not having problems like I am, and others are.  But the bottom line is, I can't get any work done without ReWiring in my synths.

It's that simple.  SONAR does not allow me to load the synths in question because the CPU meter locks up and drops out.  Yet, when I ReWire those same synths into SONAR, hosting the VSTi in Reaper -> SONAR, all is well.  So the issue lies in loading these synths in SONAR.  I'm not sure how much clearer I can get.  This thread is quite long, and I appreciate your patience.  But what am I doing wrong here? I've stated the same thing over and over, nothing's changed at all on my end.  I don't really feel its fair to shoot the messenger here.

John:  what is your opinion on the cause?  Reaper, MiniHost, and FL Studio can host the synths and have no dropouts.  SONAR drops out and pops/clicks with the same project.  Same ASIO buffer settings, same everything.  It's a SONAR issue.  Yet, if the synths are hosted and loaded in Reaper, and ReWired into SONAR, SONAR works flawlessly and the CPU does not spike AT ALL.  Same exact synths, setup, settings, ASIO, everything.  But SONAR drops out instantly almost.  But those same synths, same everything - but only difference in they are "hosted" (i.e. loaded) in another app and sent into SONAR, and SONAR is flawless.  I even tried raising my buffer (ASIO) to the higest setting, with insane latency.  Made no difference.  SONAR still could not handle the CPU load efficiently.  Dropouts galore.  I'm not bad mouthing SONAR, I keep feeling like many here are against me - but I just was hoping for some help to fix my SONAR so I could go back to using it (without having to ReWire stuff in).  SONAR is not perfect.  But it's close :)
Many share similar issues as I do.  Yet, each circumstances are different enough to merit some concern, imo.

What do you think of that? I'm not sure how it could be anything else but SONAR at this point. 

Thanks for your help. I hope that answers your questions. :)

To respond to your post directly John: Reaper can handle a significantly higher load than SONAR.  A fair statement, indeed my friend.  Other than that, I've been a die hard SONAR fan for years, and it's the most powerful DAW ever made.  Period. :)  I just want it to work for me :(

John requested that I clarify my problems - and so I did.  That is why I continued my previous post.  After seeing all the awesome support from the helpful people who have posted here in my thread, I felt that answering his question was the least I could do to show my appreciation.

Thanks!

I've thanked them countless times throughout this thread.

Yes, sorry if my comment came off sounding a tad brusque. But I meant it seriously; I think this might be a job for the "Pros".


The only part of your experience I have sometimes experienced is SONAR is maxing out its CPU meters, and starting to pop and crackle, while Windows (Win 7 x64 in my case) reports maybe 30% CPU utilization. But I don't worry about it, because it takes a much heavier plug-in load that I never encounter in a real project (mine are all pretty light due in part to heavier dependence on hardware synths) to get it to that point. And that severe disagreement between SONAR and Windows on what the CPU load is the exception.

As a reference point, you might want to run one of SONAR's demo projects like Justin Lassen's "Dark European Space Adventures". This project idles and plays with SONAR's CPU meters bouncing around in the 20-40% range on my Q9550-based system with a 96-sample ASIO buffer. Windows averages about the same, but with greater variation, probably because it is looking at instantaneous values, while SONAR is measuring how much time it took vs. how much was available to process a 2ms audio buffer.


In any case, it might help to get a grip on things if you use a reference project that everyone has access to.

I understand others are having a similar problem with SONAR dropping out, but has anyone resolved the issue of Benjamin's disk usage being at 0%? For those of you who are having similar problems, is your disk usage at 0%? Can you reproduce this?

If his test project is pure MIDI and soft synths with no audio and no sample-streaming synths, his disk usage could easily stay at 0%. The project I mentioned above will show 00% most of the time with an occasional excursion to an exhilarating 01%.