ROOM ACOUSTICS...in what order?

Your control room is in definite need of improvement. The space itself is less than ideal. Tile floor is less than ideal. The "one window" (I'm presuming is in addition to the "Observation glass into studio room") is questionable. Why is it there? You're talking about a lot of reflections in a very small space.

Here are some DIY absorbers.

You'll need to put a minimum of one in every corner. I've got mine angled across each corner right up against the ceiling.

Additionally make sure that you place some to absorb reflections from your monitors onto surfaces close by. Work on the basis that if you could see your monitor in a mirror placed on a wall then that's where the panel needs to go.

These things can be hung up just like pictures so I would suggest building something like twenty (You'll need 8 just for the corners) and experimenting with their placement. You might find that it's useful to replace some of the fibre ceiling tiles with 2' X 2' burlap covered panels above your monitoring position.

I have 16 of the things (4 on the ceiling) in a 21' X 15' room with a 15' X 5' window along one wall, and I am very impressed with the results of the treatment. I set up a little production line with a friend and we had them all built in less than a day, and at a very reasonable cost. The most expensive component was the coloured hessian (burlap) that made a huge difference to the finished look.

Phil

To Papa and Phil..

Im stuck with the size of the rooms..for now.  I can close up the window in the control room though and carpet the floor...or what ever you suggest...I must do it myself though..money. Im monitoring thru the JBLs listed in my sig, using the output of the FF800s phone output. Ceiling height is real close to 8'less the dropin panel width.

I will get material and start making those traps this week. Thanks for the DIY suggestions...I probably going to have to MAKE anything that I use.

Keep those suggestions coming and Thanks.
Jeff

Have a look on DV247 forum for treating domestic rooms. Here

Good one, sh1.  I couldn't find anything so quickly!

Is there any chance at all...of swapping rooms...

make the small one a  iso booth....?

That would be the first thing I would suggest..


Then bass traps in all corners, and that means ceiling/wall corners...and absorbative panels at first reflection points....


Acoustics is a big subject...but for treating small rooms, its usually the same recipe...

Bass trapping

Panels at first reflection points.

Postioning of monitors within the room to help even out the response.

The Gearslutz forum has a great acoustics group.  As does John Sayers Website.

DIY is a good way to go...its what I did...I built 22    4' X 2' 4" traps for my room.
Wiz home made bass traps

You can purchase good premade traps from either Real Traps or GIK acoustics.

I didnt go with rigid fibreglass ( I had a lung cancer scare this year....and I didnt want anything around me that I even felt weird about)

I used Polyester ....tontine acoustisorb.

There are millions of posts on this kind of stuff on the web....best to brew some big pots of coffee.

goto

www.realtraps.com and start reading ethan winers FAQ's

or

www.gikacoustics.com

and read their faqs as well....


with some attention to detail...you can make "practically" any space work pretty well.

I have had a few studios, and even one that was 12' by 12' and it turned out some great sounds......just couldnt get many people in there at mix time...8)


cheeers

Wiz

downsouthstudio


Would you put carpet on the floor or something else? I cant afford the fancy floating floors etc...has to be simple.

Carpet with a dense pad is always a good start.  If you have the time (and patience) you can check out some of the deals offered by the carpet manufacturers/outlets in Dalton, GA.   In one case, I got the carpet (remnant) for free, paid 25% retail for the pad, and paid cost for shipping to the local dealer.  Well worth the footwork for a 10'x16' space!

MIDIMINDS

downsouthstudio


Would you put carpet on the floor or something else? I cant afford the fancy floating floors etc...has to be simple.

Carpet with a dense pad is always a good start.  If you have the time (and patience) you can check out some of the deals offered by the carpet manufacturers/outlets in Dalton, GA.   In one case, I got the carpet (remnant) for free, paid 25% retail for the pad, and paid cost for shipping to the local dealer.  Well worth the footwork for a 10'x16' space!

 
Thanks Jay..........I will carpet for now.  I have enough carpet/pad left over from our house install.

If you go to any supplier of bass traps or absorbers they are all very quick to sell you all types of equipment to treat your room. But it will not be correct as the room dimensions and modes need to be addressed correctly.
The first thing you need to do is take some measurements in your room.
Use Room Eq wizard
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ It's completly free and has a great forum.
The other option is get the software from http://www.acoustisoft.com If you pay an extra $50 dollars he will interpret the reading for you and tell you exactly what your room needs before you buy anything. So for $150 its money well spent and saves you a fortune instead of listening to some salesman whose commission depends on your business.
I have also an expert who is working with me on getting my studio correct. His fee is not  very much but he supplies drawing and sketches how you do it all yourself. He is highly respected in the business. Email me off-line for his details if you want to go down that path.



Another great link is  http://www.gearslutz.com/...m-analysis-primer.html

As I said earlier, those panels will hang up just like a picture. I just put some long screws in the wall and left about 1.5" protuding on which to hang the panel frame . Using two (level) screws for each panel makes it very easy to adjust them horizontally on the wall.

If you have any leftover fibreglass or rockwool then stuff it into that ceiling void above your tiles.

Phil

You may be able to have a word with Frank on the dv247 forum. He's a solid sort of chap. It's also what he does.  http://www.gikacoustics.com/

There are many ways to go with treatment Down South. Your controlroom is rather small on the short side. I feel that you will get unwanted reflections with a trap type treatment. Many people don't like foam-(Auralex type) but if it was me in a room that size that has no other function. I'd completely cover the walls with 2" pyramid 2'X4' foam panels and of course treat the corners with bass traps. Not cheap to do. Hang a diffuser over the control position and position a sound blanket 12" away from the rear window making sure it extends at least 12" around the window frame. That's one way to go.

A word to the wise for all new home gargage studio builders:
 
The OP has done exactly what I did (more or less) with my first studio.  The only thing I did differently on my first space is that I went to the trouble of designing it with no parallel walls and a sloped ceiling.  BTW, all the trouble I went through didn't really help much - it still sounded like a cardboard box.
 
In my desire to look like the "big boy" studios, I mimiced their design into a poor downsized compromise and divided my two car garage into a control room and a live space.  However, I found that I spent most of my time (where the critical listening part came in) stuck in a space about the size of a nice walk-in closet mixing tracks while I stared through a nicely angled double window into an empty room.
 
I suggest considering moving your control room into the 18 x 12 space where you can orient your mixing desk so that you have the most distance from the back of your mix position as you can get.  And don't get the room too dead sounding.  Consider tracking with musicians in your control room and saving the small room as an Iso booth for instruments that demand separation for over dub purposes.
 
My $.02 but it comes from experience and not what I read.
 

that's what i'd do... if your just tracking...one or two instrument/vocals... at a time...definitely switch the rooms around.  the problem with trying to listen in a room so small is the monitors never get a chance to open up before their captured by the room treatment... they will sound very stale.  you'll still have this problem to some extent with the acoustics of the instruments but you can massage that later.  you'll get way better mixes in the bigger room.   also don't confuse base traps with difusers and deflection... different materials and usage.  generally base traps are made from medium dense foam with some sort of acoustical designed cut into them and placed in the corners to absorb base.  deflection  absorbers are the flat panels that every one is talking about general made of some sort of hard absorbing material wrapped with a cloth and placed in arias on the walls, and ceilings to stop the rebounding of sound and diffusers are ridged frames generally constructed according to a mathematical equation designed not to  absorb sound but to capture specific frequencies...depending on what your studio requires.  generally on the ceiling or on the walls in your recording area to capture unwanted frequencies wile recording the instruments.  so obviously your first step would be to figure out what sort of treatment you need.  the idea hear is to maintain as much of your sound as possible treating only the areas which are problimatic.  usually in a square room the corners are a no brainer...base traps for sure...  but when it comes to your walls and ceiling... you don't always want to stop it.  in general what your after is getting rid of all the 90 degree angles.  think stealth bomber... the same principles ply.  once you get rid of all your 90's then start playing with deflection/rebound.  after all that you can pick up the 300 page books on diffusion and practice putting those formulas into play.  but before you can do that you need to have your room analyzed to tell you which frequencies are problematic... then you can build a diffuser which will serve you best.  as far as your windows... just build an acoustic panel which will cover them when needed.  however you should be able to mirror them on the other side of your room... that may or may not be possible.  so really there are three different element involved in room treatment... not counting the floor which is also part of the equation..   there are base traps..90s....  there is deflection... how the sound bounces around the room.  and frequency/diffusion... which frequencies are absorbed... this is the tuning of the room.   this is the one you really can't do without diagnostic equipment. do it right and it will capture the exact frequencies you want it to... do it wrong and you've just got rid of the ones you did want... diffusers, when built right can be every bit as accurate as a parametric eq.  remember you don't want to kill the sound... you just want to control it.  you can do just as much damage with room treatment as well as good.

bitflipper


If I had to suggest one step as a priority over others, it would be covering the first-reflection points on the side walls and ceiling. More important even than bass trapping, dampening the early reflections has a dramatic effect on the clarity of your monitors. It really helps when mixing the midrange, which although not as problematic as bass frequencies are actually more critical to getting a good mix.

You might also think about making use of that drop ceiling. If possible, you can stuff standard pink fluffy insulation behind it, turning the whole ceiling into a bass trap. You'll still need surface treatment for the mids, but as little as 2" would suffice for the ceiling.

I agree that floors shouldn't be ignored. However, there just isn't much you can do about them. Carpets, even thick ones, are only acoustically significant in the upper mids and highs. You just can't put thick enough carpets down to do anything for lows and low mids. For this reason I'd move floor treatment to the bottom of the list. However, a thick carpet in the vocal booth is beneficial.

wile i got you here... bit did you get a chance to look over any SE mikes...and if so how were they?