Philip
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Serious Mastering
By serious I mean professional, I mean, YOUR serious and reasonable amateur competence and techniques ... not another politician's. (Your seriousness to portray yourself your best)
I'll begin:
Ozone 5 Advanced is a massive failure for me
1) ... I've performed double-blind-studies with the '6' modules and witnessed, to my ears, that none of them improve over Ozone 4 (a 'ballpark' mastering tool for me)
2) Chiefly, Ozone 5's maximizer/limiter is not qualitatively 'better' than Ozone 4's ... for my 'latest' mix ...
3) The other modules are relatively 'bad' (Harmonic Exciter, etc.), compared to 'other' mastering tools out there.
4) The Ozone 5 Advanced graphics are a essentially a silly distraction to my critical ears.
5) Accept for the maximizer module ... to use in a pinch .... I've taken Ozone completely off the mastering palette for serious mastering.
Serious mastering has perplexed you and I for years. You think got the mix perfect ... but we're oft scared to put on the polish. So we delay mastering.
Your mastering house is splendid, but then you have to risk changing things later; nor do you want to lose the 'freshness' of your dream and magic. Suddenly ...
Post-Mastering involves re-doing masters in sections only ... where you must fix something. I do it in Sonar ... even in 24-bit ... despite the master being 16 bit.
Serious mastering ponders I hope you'll chime on:
Should you/I send a master that contains absolutely no master-buss fx's?
Should you trust applying -3.0 dbs input ... on the Master Buss ... to obtain all necessary head room for your mastering?
Should you/I pre-master at all (haahaha!)?
If I love UAD's precision maximizer coloration, or some other outboard emulations ... should I send that to my mastering house?
Or, in the final artistic groan, I'll just master reasonably myself ... and ... pending finances ... send both to the mastering house?
Or, to keep things simple ... how do you currently like to master your beloved stuff?
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Rain
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/21 09:03:09
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I don't do it anymore. And it's a relief.
I've tried it in the past, but I figured I had to draw the line somewhere. I'm already handling songwriting (music AND lyrics), arranging, performing most of the instruments, programing the rest, recording, mixing. I figure that's a lot already for one person, no matter how talented I want to believe I can potentially be.
Since I gave up on the idea of mastering by myself, it helped me improve my mixing skills big time. I still have the curiosity and would like to learn to master sometime in the future, but I figured there's some things I just won't have time to learn in this life time, so I accept that and focus on what I can do.
My mixes typically end up somewhere between -6db and -3db with a couple of peaks here and there, but nothing that'll hit the red. I try to keep them as flat as possible, but I'll sometime listen through a mastering plug-ins chain, to give me an idea of how it will behave and whether or not I may need to carve away more of certain frequencies.
I don't add much on the master buss. Maybe just a tiny little bit of compression, to add a slight bit of color/glue - nothing esoteric, just Logic's own compressor, which is excellent and does a fine job at emulating the SSL master buss. But it's barely audible.
I figure the less I add and the purest my final mix is, the easiest it'll be for the ME to handle it, the more options we'll have.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/21 09:37:37
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Serious mastering ponders I hope you'll chime on: Should you/I send a master that contains absolutely no master-buss fx's? I prefer it that way. Most engineers do not know how much is too much. The more they do here, the more limitations I have. I can't uncompress or unlimit something that is not breathing right. The engineers job is to give a good mix and allow the ME to polish it. Some guys like to mix into a 2-bus compressor due to the coloration as well as how it will alter the eq's you touch differently than if you didn't have a bus comp on there. Personally, if this is a necessity to a mix engineer, I recommend a hardware compressor or the UAD Fatso as it is the only digital compressor I have ever used that comes close to simulating what a hardware 2 bus comp would do. Should you trust applying -3.0 dbs input ... on the Master Buss ... to obtain all necessary head room for your mastering? Yes. Just don't normalize it to -3dB. Use the master fader to achieve -3dB peak at the end of a full pass of the tune. Should you/I pre-master at all (haahaha!)? Not unless you truly know how and completely understand what the ME does from start to finish. The more you do, the more his/her hands are tied. What MAY sound good to you, may not sound good to the ME and may restrict his capabilities. No one want to stifle your artistic abilities. However, if you are not trained in what to listen for at the mastering stage, it is too easy to mess up here. You must keep in mind that you created the project on the same set of speakers...have listened to it 3000 times while mixing it, and have grown accustomed to it. The ME goes into it with fresh ears and no bias. He listens differently than you do and is aware of things that would pass right on by you most of the time. When you press that export audio command...in your mind, you have taken the mix as far as you can. What do you even begin to touch? If the mix wasn't as good as you could make it...why press the export button? See my point? An ME will listen to the material in a completely different light. If I love UAD's precision maximizer coloration, or some other outboard emulations ... should I send that to my mastering house? No because it's too easy to over-process. The PM in my opinion isn't a good source of coloration. To me it's not much better than Boost 11. There should be no limiting or intense compression on a master bus if you are to have your material mastered by someone that knows what they are doing. There will be others that say I'm out of my tree, I stick to my guns....if you want to do the ME's job, you don't need an ME. Or, in the final artistic groan, I'll just master reasonably myself ... and ... pending finances ... send both to the mastering house? Mastering reasonably by yourself is completely acceptable especially if you do not intent to sell your material. However, you don't get a second chance at a good first impression. A great mastering job on a properly recorded piece of music will always sound better than one that does not have those qualities. When you compare mixes and masters that you have done yourself compared to the ones I have done with you since our time working together....are the differences drastic to you where mine (or yours) are better? If yours are better or just as good as what I've done for you....there's really no need for me and you should by rights...do it yourself. If there is a major difference in quality and clarity in mine verses yours, you have the answer right there and you made the right choice. :) Or, to keep things simple ... how do you currently like to master your beloved stuff? Very carefully, with the utmost love and dedication to what is best for the tune. I do not ever use the monitors I recorded or mixed on. When I am nearing the end of a mix, I will check a few things within the mix to prepare it for mastering. Sub lows, congested mids, harsh high end, sibs, cymbal presence etc. I'd rather nip some of that stuff at the mixing stage than alter the entire sound of the master. This is a case of where "fix it in the mix" is actually a true statement. Never try to fix something "in the mastering stage". Next, it is good to have an idea as to what really needs to be changed. This is where the "do it yourselfer" is going to have a hard time. Like I said above...when you press that export button....you were done with the mix or you wouldn't have pressed it. The key is to have a balanced mix, not one that sounds like it was mastered already. When you hear a pro final mix/master on the radio, rest assured, what was sent to the mastering house was not in the final form you hear. Most pro mixes are very flat sounding having just the right amount of frequencies. There is no excessive bass or sub low...no harsh highs...no congestive mids. All that stuff is handled by the ME. He or she molds.sculps the mix into a "master". We only seem to take away frequencies when working with engineers who are less experienced. The reason being, most less experienced engineers are comparing their work to full blown masters. This means you will mix to the master of your liking. This is not always the right way because what the engineer fails to realize is...what he hears is not what was presented in the final mix. So how do we deal with this stuff when we don't know what a final mix really sounded like? Simple...you go for balanced without anything sticking out that would be "questionable". If something sounds like it has too much low end or is dipping down in the sub area too much...it is. If your mix sounds too warm and a bit boxy....it is...and is probably a bit mid range congested. If you hear a few sibs on vocals or your hats or crashes are hissing like snakes...you're using too much high end. The ME will make all the right decisions for you and will do an incredible job if you just hand them a balanced mix that is audible and has all the right stuff without the mastering accentuations you THINK a mix should have. That's how it's done in the big leagues. :) Hope this helps. -Danny
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2011/12/21 10:16:47
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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batsbrew
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/21 11:51:17
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fwiw......
i mix into a master buss compressor.
i've done this for years, and it works for me.
it's a touchy-feely thing, where over time, you come to understand the concept of 'glue' in a mix, and how putting on individual track compressors can interact with the master buss compressor.
i tend to use limiters, instead of compressors on individual tracks, and then only kiss the signal, not seeing hardly any actual reduction. again, it's a touchy-feely thing, some folks cannot even hear it on solo'ing tracks, but the overall effect adds up, and i know how this works.
the way i setup my master buss compressor is very transparent, and has not affected the 'mastering' step at all.
but i leave a lot of headroom on my mix 2-track, at least -6db at peak.
the mastering process should not mess with the 'mix' at all.
but for a ME to have a fun time with it, you have to provide a very clean 2-track, with no funky transients, no pumping, as natural a sound as you can get.
The ME should not be trying to fix mix issues.
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Philip
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/21 13:17:58
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@Rain and @Danny
Thank you for your most excellent thoughts on this sensitive area. Your thoughts help a lot.
I've 3 mixes that are Danziland-mastered (so far). While utterly awesome masters that I cherish exceedingly ...
I still have had to do post-mastering edits on one song only (Hood2) ... as I felt the 'artistic need' for the original reverb (vs. volume fade) on the intro and outro; I also downed some sections a fraction of a decibel that I thought were too loud for the macro dynamics.
Post-mastering is fun -- LOL!
Would the radio-public care or notice? Who knows? But the artist cares ... trust me.
Respectfully, IMHO, we all have songs that don't require an ME; here's why:
1) The artist-singer-producer has mixed a song where little to no mastering is even necessary.
2) The artist is 'ahead of his time' (he thinks ... hahahaha)
3) The artist fears destroying the richness of a song by polishing it.
4) He/she/they feel the song is a long way from being finished. AKA, premature mastering, etc.
5) Time would fail to mention: ME cost, bang-for-the-buck, an artist's profit-motives, and/or needs for purity, holiness, profanity, passion, personality, bias, vanity-of-vanity ... etc.
6) Or the drunken artist herself cries out ... "My song is perfect" ... in a gleefully egotisical state
7) The ever valid 'just because' ... 'art-for-art' sake ... etc.
8) Or moreover, that artists-engineers should personally finish what they started
9) That money, hirelings, child-care-workers, priests, MEs, and drunkards have corrupt thoughts.
10) Mastering itself is just another form of mixing. Many engineers do it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That said, I am duly impressed by the excellence of my ME ... or MA (Mastering Artist) ...
Danny: You mentioned the Fatso vs the Precision Maximizer (which, IMHO, does color the lows compared to Ozone's brick-wall maximizer).
There are other outboard emulations I'd ponder (and recommend everyone to ponder) ...
1) Manley Massive Passive EQ on a buss or master ... for colorations (e.g., some of my dull mixes)
2) VOG (for magnified hip-hop lows) ... on a vox buss(es)
3) Ampex Atr-102 tape emulation ... on the master (unfortunately, this is supposed to be an ME's tool ... but it levels mixes sweetly, IMHO)
4) Other Fatso variations: (besides the comp) ... like the Warmer to tame our shrieky vocals on the vox buss
5) Cambridge EQ on the master, for surgical reductions
6) I suppose time would fail us here to discuss the Neves, the verbs, the multi-comps, and the wideners ... all of which have artistic relevance ... both to the artist and the ME.
To focus on Rain's thoughts; I'm pretty close to his logic. I'd prefer to let the ME hash out the mysterious arts and focus more on the tracks and busses. But I strive to learn something besides Ozone's do-that-in-a-pinch modules ... and/or not always throw myself at the mercy of the ME.
(OK, I'll throw myself at the mercy of my ME ... but I'd prefer his guitar judgements)
But I appreciate everyone's mastering dilemma and hope to appreciate all 'sincere' opinions, great and small, drunk or holy, fragile or dogmatic, rich or poor, smart or simple, quirky but insane ... LOL
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bitflipper
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/21 18:58:48
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Agreed on Ozone 5. The new limiter algorithm did not impress me enough to part with $99.
Sending my own stuff out for mastering is unfortunately not an option, and may never be, because I'd want nothing less than a top-tier ME for the job. Inexpensive mastering, in my experience, is no better than what I can do myself. And sometimes much worse.
All of my experience with mastering specialists is through other people's projects. People who are serious about making a commercial product, serious about actually selling their music, and who have an actual budget to do so. Maybe my experience has been atypical, but I gotta tell ya, some of the results that have come back were atrocious. It would seem that anyone with a pair of Rokits and an online photo of someone else's studio can call himself a mastering engineer.
Maybe the best tactic is to listen to a lot of independent productions, and when you hear one that's really well mastered, call the artist up and ask where they had it done. I know there are competent, properly-equipped MEs out there. You might just get lucky and find one that you can afford.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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offnote
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/21 19:08:46
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Rain
I don't do it anymore. And it's a relief.
I've tried it in the past, but I figured I had to draw the line somewhere. I'm already handling songwriting (music AND lyrics), arranging, performing most of the instruments, programing the rest, recording, mixing. I figure that's a lot already for one person, no matter how talented I want to believe I can potentially be.
I subscribe to this idea. It's hard to be good in everything today and i prefer concentrate on music. Leonardo Da Vinci times are over long time ago when you could do it all.
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ohgrant
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/21 19:44:35
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I've had the same experience with ozone 4 as you did 5 Phil. I'm sure they are handy in others hands but not mine. For the projects I'm working on now I've given up as many native plugs as I can and I'm slowly replacing them with DSP powered plugs from UAD, TC Powercore, and Focusrite Liquid Mix. I just picked up 2 UAD-1's a Powercore and Liquid mix from eBay and 1 more powercore on the way. I like the pro strip and Sonitus plugs well enough but I just don't have the CPU to handle too many instance of them. I'm finding mixdowns more reliable without them. I've been setting up templates like Danny suggests things are going much better now and don't reach that point where I have to start bouncing tracks before I'm ready. In any case not advocating upgrading to DSP cards for folks with up to date computers but for me they got me out of complete stop and wait for new computer mode. I have workflow again and I'm enjoying the journey more. For mastering, I really have no business messing with that at this point in my development, but I have Waves L1 and also have Master X3 that came with my powercore. I like X3 much better. Both of these plugs have a dithering option of 16, 24, 32. I think I read once that dithering is something that should only be done once? During mix down in Sonar we have the option of dithering but it's triangular, rectangular.... Is this the same process? Should I change Sonar's dithering to none if using the dithering option in the plug? If a mix has been dithered, should it be considered final and further processing only damages the quality? Great to hear from everyone so far.
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Alegria
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/21 19:55:55
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"offnote"
Leonardo Da Vinci times are over long time ago when you could do it all. Leo was not of this world. 
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SongCraft
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/22 00:27:15
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I usually take a long break between recording, mix and mastering.
I won't let hardly anyone else do the mastering for me.
I'm very nit-picky, I'm like a heat-seeking missile targeting all the faults. I write down notes, lots of notes in regards to everything that needs to be done, aww heck sometimes tracks need to be completely re-recorded.
I learned a very long time ago that it's important for a band (or solo artist) to be well rehearsed and prepared before entering the recording studio let alone think about the mastering process.
Prep for 'Mastering'; I suppose the master output usually happily ranges to -3 max, the idea is to keep the final level below '0' leaving me plenty of runway for mastering, otherwise it be like a large jumbo jet trying to land on an inadequate tarmac... that plane is going to hit the dirt!
For the past several months I've been mastering my songs in preparation for my album release. I mostly use T-Racks and a little Ozone 3 and 4 (where needed) for example; Buses > Ozone 3 and 4; for EQ, stereo spread on L/R harmony vocals and maybe a tiny bit of exciter and compressor but generally not much. Minor adjustments can make all the difference.
During the mastering process I have the full project at hand (unlike old-school mastering) that way I can dig deeper, get to individual tracks and buses for finer adjustments; EQ, compressor, reverb/delay and limter. And for many other good reasons such as for example; sometimes I might do a cut at 1khz to 1.5khz on guitars L/R, this can make the harmony vocals standout clearer in the mix, it's all good because usually a cut at that freq (for guitars) will also make the guitars sound clearer, not as dull.
When you tweak the mastering it will sound great but may change the sound of one instrument in the mix such as; strings, guitar or piano, thereby having immediate access to tweak individual tracks is good.
That said! Even-though my experience goes back decades using the old-school way of mixing and mastering which involved hardware gear, I love the new school 'mastering' techniques; using software and one heck of a good PC that can handle this process is a dream come true. Hmmm now that I think about it again I guess it's not so new school afterall; I suppose a lot of people have been mastering like this for a long time.
So anyway... my standard 'mastering' ~ line up is fairly lean and simple;
EQ > Compressor > Multi-Band Limiter > Maximizer
I use T-Racks, IMO its about all I need. I always keep in mind that T-Racks is particularly very sensitive; it only requires very subtle adjustments, but what the heck its those little adjustments that make all the difference. Push it too far and things start to get nasty, harsh and overly compressed (like that plane wreck I mentioned earlier)!
* EQ;
For example; I usually roll-off the bass-end and top-end at the extreme ends (20hz/20khz) a little, a nice slope from 45hz (low end) and from 13khz (high end) or there abouts (again this depends on the material) but its a slope not a sharp drop off.
Then I might put a very minimal gentle slope up starting at around 4khz to add a little air but this tweak is not always necessary!
I might add a little cut elsewhere where needed to add even-more clarity to the mix.
* Anyway, these are all just examples because each song requires different treatment.
* Compressor;
For example; I usually keep the ratio at no more than 2:15 (maximum), attack at 30 or 40 and a have a short release.
I usually check that the reduction meter doesn't exceed -3.
* Multi-Band Limiter;
Generally I don't need to do much here other than I suppose; 'correction' and 'enhancements' but all very subtle tweaks, nothing drastic for example;
Starting at 'null levels' and flat (I don't use presets) there might be too much 'middle' thereby I reduce that a little (about -1.0 or -2.0). Another example; the top-end is where the magic can happen I usually raise the top end band a little (about +1.0 or +2.0) it certainly helps to add more perceived 'loudness' and 'clarity' without raising the 'band' level but also being very careful not to overly do this or the mix will sound harsh. Keep in mind that prior to the M/Band Limiter I had already rolled-off the extreme top-end EQ but also may have raise the 'air' enough already, besides; too much makes me hyperventilate! Finally the reduction meter never exceeds -3.
Again, this is all just examples because each song requires different tweaks.
* Maximizer;
I usually turn the input up until I hear noticeable artifacts and from there I bring the levels down until it all sounds natural and finally reduce the output so that the master outs (Master buss) never exceeds -3. I do a bypass to compare, or compare between various settings. Overall though usually the amount of perceived loudness is quite freaking amazing.
Anyway, I do test burns and MP3 files to check that there are no issues, I usually playback on various sources from headphones and ear-buds to all sorts of home speakers including the freaking TV, and in mono. I guess a lot of people out there probably listened to music on PC desktop or laptop speakers, in the car, or ear-buds speakers.
At very low volumes; if I can still hear all instruments from the kick and bass to the vocal lyrics then I guess that's a good sign, and if I can turn the volume way up and hear all instruments all sitting nicely in the mix with a bass end that doesn't sound like a booming mud pile and the vocals sitting nicely without sounding like a mouth full of sloppy dog chow then I guess that's a good sign.
Actually, it's my vocals that I found the most challenging throughout the whole process from recording to final master. Getting my vocal performances right; capturing the 'feel', technique and sound, and then getting it to sit nicely in the mix. And the style of music I do is no folking walk in the park either, its quite challenging compared to mastering just a folk guitar and vocal performance. But what the hey I've always love challenges!
Anyway, I see my album primarily as a showcase of my songwriting, multi-instrumentation and arrangement skills, a stepping stone to the next level in regards to my ultimate goal which does not involve me being a lip-syncing Pop/Rock star or master of all.
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jamesyoyo
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/22 08:18:57
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SongCraft
I usually take a long break between recording, mix and mastering.
Greg: That artwork on your site is a trip. Digital pyramids, flying saucers, Mayan temples...with your face peering over it all like the Space Child!
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/22 08:25:17
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bitflipper
Sending my own stuff out for mastering is unfortunately not an option, and may never be, because I'd want nothing less than a top-tier ME for the job. Inexpensive mastering, in my experience, is no better than what I can do myself. And sometimes much worse.
I agree. I've heard a few tunes that were supposedly mastered by a pro that were nothing but over compressed, ruined songs. I thought the mastering (with Ozone) that I had done on the song was better by far than the results of the guy who was charging to do this. For this reason, and that I am a bit tight with money and really have no plans to release any of the music I write on CD's and such, the home grown mastering works fine for library work. As long as the song sounds good, and is reasonably polished, it works fine. I hope to continue however, to improve my skills in that final polishing stage. In my own mind, I think I'm probably half the way to where I want to be as a Mastering Engineer, but I'll likely find that the more I learn, the more I will disciver there is to learn and that distance will be greater then I currently think it to be. Great discussion going on here on this topic BTW.... !
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/12/22 08:27:33
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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ChuckC
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/22 13:16:00
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Great info on here everybody, cool thread!
I know I SHOULD send my stuff out. I know that guys like Danny and CJ would most definitely do a far better job than I can. However ignorant it is of me... We spend all kinds of money on computers, interfaces, mic's and preamps, plugs, monitors etc. etc. etc. to get the best sound we can but don't want to spend the $50-$100 to make our art (the object of our affection) sound the best it can at the final critical stage... (as I am typing this out it sounds like the decision is just dumber and dumber with each passing minute).
On the other hand it is that thirst for knowledge and the tech side of all of us that wants to figure it out on our own... It's a paradigm.
It has lead us down the path of learning and recording ourselves rather than paying for studio time, yet when we reach the mastering stage we are told to STOP THAT!! Let the pro's do it! The problem lies in that we are like little kids screaming I DON'T WANNA!!!
We want to figure it out, get better at it and have it as another trick in the bag. Tinkering and learning with no formal training has gotten me to this point where I am to believe my mix skills are good enough that I should invest $$ in professional mastering to finish the job, but that it would be impossible to tinker and learn that last stage too. Why? Why couldn't I? I may suck at it now... (See my lat couple of overcompressed song posts) but ya know.... I sucked at recording anything 2 years ago... Now I just suck at mastering. I am working on it!
Maybe it will take 15 years of experience and another $10-50k in gear to do it to get masters out that can hold their own when played in between songs mastered by the big boys? But as others have stated some ME's that are getting paid for it STILL SUCK!
I don't agree with the statement "Leonardo Da Vinci times are over long time ago when you could do it all" In this day in age people do all kinds of things DIY that they have no business doing and should let a pro handle, but we all do it! Think about this, When was the last time you did your own: tile work, roof repair, car repairs, taxes, etc... a pro could have and would have done it better in most cases. It used to be that you did what you do for a living and let others do what they do... Now with home improvement mega stores and the internet to turn to for help we ALL dive into stuff we really shouldn't head first.
Just my 2 cents on it.
-Chuck
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/22 13:47:29
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ChuckC
Great info on here everybody, cool thread!
I know I SHOULD send my stuff out. I know that guys like Danny and CJ would most definitely do a far better job than I can. However ignorant it is of me... We spend all kinds of money on computers, interfaces, mic's and preamps, plugs, monitors etc. etc. etc. to get the best sound we can but don't want to spend the $50-$100 to make our art (the object of our affection) sound the best it can at the final critical stage... (as I am typing this out it sounds like the decision is just dumber and dumber with each passing minute).
On the other hand it is that thirst for knowledge and the tech side of all of us that wants to figure it out on our own... It's a paradigm.
It has lead us down the path of learning and recording ourselves rather than paying for studio time, yet when we reach the mastering stage we are told to STOP THAT!! Let the pro's do it! The problem lies in that we are like little kids screaming I DON'T WANNA!!!
We want to figure it out, get better at it and have it as another trick in the bag. Tinkering and learning with no formal training has gotten me to this point where I am to believe my mix skills are good enough that I should invest $$ in professional mastering to finish the job, but that it would be impossible to tinker and learn that last stage too. Why? Why couldn't I? I may suck at it now... (See my lat couple of overcompressed song posts) but ya know.... I sucked at recording anything 2 years ago... Now I just suck at mastering. I am working on it!
Maybe it will take 15 years of experience and another $10-50k in gear to do it to get masters out that can hold their own when played in between songs mastered by the big boys? But as others have stated some ME's that are getting paid for it STILL SUCK!
I don't agree with the statement "Leonardo Da Vinci times are over long time ago when you could do it all" In this day in age people do all kinds of things DIY that they have no business doing and should let a pro handle, but we all do it! Think about this, When was the last time you did your own: tile work, roof repair, car repairs, taxes, etc... a pro could have and would have done it better in most cases. It used to be that you did what you do for a living and let others do what they do... Now with home improvement mega stores and the internet to turn to for help we ALL dive into stuff we really shouldn't head first.
Just my 2 cents on it.
-Chuck
That sums it up....good post, Chuck. At the end of the day...as I said before, you sometimes don't get a second chance for a good first impression. In certain situations...mastering is not just for the mastering part. I can't tell you all the things I've caught for clients over the years that without me...they would have had some pretty rediculous things left in their mixes. The main thing here with mastering, is that second set of ears. For example...let's take a look at that recent tune you had me listen to. Remember what I pointed out to you? LOL! Some mastering engineers will just take your stuff and master it. They don't go through the trouble to pinpoint areas that should be fixed before you master. This is what I try to do that many do not. The object is to preserve the mix that you pressed "export" on. However, because I've not heard it 3000 times, I come into it listening for things you might not have thought to listen for. When you fix this stuff as much as possible before you master something, that to me is worth its weight in gold and worth the price. Add in that you get a guy that's going to make your stuff sound better....even if that "better" is only 5-10%....it makes a difference. That 5-10% could mean he removed some sub low rumbles that would have stopped your mix from being as clear...or maybe it would have distorted a bit when you cranked it up. Or the right compression and limiting setting to make sure you don't have artifacts yet stay loud and clear. When you keep all that in mind...and then look at your material as your business card to the world....you want to always have your best representation at hand. You never know who will listen to your stuff. And now days...record label A&R guys don't want to spend loads of cash on anything. That first impression (or sometimes...your only shot at an impression) is crucial...especially if you're in a working club band or are selling material to fans. The people that buy your CD's deserve the best quality you can deliver. You never know whos hands that Cd might fall into. For hobbiests that just make music for fun....there's no need for mastering really. Most people can do a decent job on their own. We usually call that "little "m" mastering" as my friend Tony likes to call it. But when something is seriously going to be out there to people....it's such a breath of fresh air to have that second set of ears you can trust in the wings because we can get so close to our material.....we can't see 2 inches in front of us and that's where some of us need to be concerned. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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bitflipper
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/22 14:01:41
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Both of these plugs have a dithering option of 16, 24, 32. I think I read once that dithering is something that should only be done once? During mix down in Sonar we have the option of dithering but it's triangular, rectangular.... Is this the same process? Should I change Sonar's dithering to none if using the dithering option in the plug? If a mix has been dithered, should it be considered final and further processing only damages the quality? Dither isn't worth all the online discussion that's been dedicated to it over the years. In the greater scheme of things, it's just too trivial to warrant even a second's thought. Don't sweat the algorithm; triangular, rectangular, Pow-Rn, MBit+, UV-22, it doesn't matter. Pick one and use it just once, at the end of the process when you're converting from 32-bit to 16-bit data. If you're letting a plugin (e.g. Ozone) do the dither, be sure to turn it off in the SONAR export options so it isn't being applied twice.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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ohgrant
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/22 14:13:12
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Big thanks Dave, been wondering about it for some time.
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Philip
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/23 09:34:58
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IMHO: I 'believe' all mixing artists inherently have the ability to do excellent (pro) mastering (and per Chuck). Mastering is not the only level that requires other ears.
So a lot of the confusion has to do with:
1) Learning mastering techinques
2) Having other ears plus mixing/mastering artists share the complex task ... which is what songs forum is for.
3) Having the desire to seriously master
Because I am professional: I am strictly a hobbyist and artist ... but love to communicate to target audiences. Serious mastering is a must!
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Starise
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/23 10:27:29
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You can never go wrong with a good well trained experienced set of extra ears.I own several mastering plugs and programs and as Guitarhacker says, I can get pretty good results if I use those properly.
I'm the hobbiest,part timer Danny is talking about. I seem to be able to get the mix pretty good to about -3 to-6 db. Most home brew mixes I hear are lacking in volume ,punch and clarity compared to a pro mix. Converting to mp3 is another biggie. A lot can be lost here in the translation. If I were using an ME I would want him to get it sounding good in mp3. We know its all going there anyways.
I don't think that mastering chops are either extremely time consuming or impossible to achieve. A lot of the engineers on these threads like Bat and Danny have helped out a lot. If a person wants to learn it, the knowledge isn't unattainable or even necessarily difficult to learn,so it boils down to how much a person wants to invest timewise into mastering. If you don't want to learn it you might pay one of these guys here who have done a lot of it and who you trust to do it.
I like learning, and so even if I don't do it in the end it is interesting to me.I might not pick it all up for some time but the knowledge and tools are readily available. Mastering is a natural transition from mixing IMO. Some of the stuff we already know about mixing applies to mastering.
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ChuckC
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/23 11:07:42
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Here is a rule I am constantly breaking though (very likely to my own detriment). I have heard it said a billion times to wait loooong periods of time betwen mixing and mastering. I have each song project file, then one called "Album Master" once I export the song from the main project I set up a track on the album master and import it putting the mastering chain for that song in the FX bin. I am happy with a couple of the songs I already have done and mastered and are now using that as the sonic reference for the rest of the songs for the album.
So I start to get to work on the song I just finished mixing right away. Last night, I was at it from around midnight (fixing up a mix) til about 3. I need to go back today and just check it, but I am fairly sure I have the tune where I want it now. I did go back to the mix once last night as when I started to cut back some of the mud from the master it cleared up the bass but killed the vocal. So I adjusted the bass track and re-exported. so now that little dip around 250 doesn't need to be so dramatic. So when the issue is found and at the front of my mind I tend to want to fix it within the mix and get back to mastering. So you see.... I can't seem to obey this particular golden rule.
*slightly off topic* Is it wierd that the meat of my bass guitar tone for that song lives between abut 125hz-800khz with most of the note distinction being toward the top end of that? It seemed a little higher frequency than normal for bass but it's really working for the song...
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Philip
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/23 12:22:14
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+1 Chuck and StarR,
Bass is a tricky beast that strongly co-rules (co- dominates) your/my mixes ... it plays tricks with my ears repeatedly. Fortunately, a lot of 'pre-master'd basses (Trillion, EWQL-MOR, and similare synths) ... offer a sonic reference (for me) ... tho they may need HPF at 80Hz and higher (if your/my kicks want to rule)
A good bass, IMHO, needs little to no buss or master-comps ... let alone Maximization tricks. Indeed, I cringe that my ME may fail with the bass-line (which, miraculously, he has not)
Hip-hop (strong) kick and/or bass is a current and future paradigm for dancing and clubs. Rhythm elements dominate songs now more than ever.
Can most MEs keep up with these paradigms? You and I have the sonic guides to do it. And there are 'special' hip-hop maximization tools (Like the Slate Maximizer) that preserve transients.
It may become the mixing artists responsibility to preserve these transients.
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ChuckC
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/23 13:01:13
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Well this is my bass player's $200 ibanez sound gear bass through a tech 21 bass driver. It actually sounds really good and gives me plenty to work with and be able mold it into the mix. but it is not a pre-recorded and pre-processed syth track or sample so I've gotta getit there myself (which is a challenge I am enjoying).
I have an ergodyne series bass myself w/ active pick ups which is great live but doesn't record as well with the actives... It just seems a little too dynamic.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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bitflipper
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/23 13:34:25
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Is it wierd that the meat of my bass guitar tone for that song lives between abut 125hz-800khz with most of the note distinction being toward the top end of that? Yeh, it is weird. But it's also a good thing because if all our bass perception was < 100Hz, there would be no bass guitar in your iPod earbuds.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/24 00:10:17
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ChuckC
Well this is my bass player's $200 ibanez sound gear bass through a tech 21 bass driver. It actually sounds really good and gives me plenty to work with and be able mold it into the mix. but it is not a pre-recorded and pre-processed syth track or sample so I've gotta getit there myself (which is a challenge I am enjoying).
I have an ergodyne series bass myself w/ active pick ups which is great live but doesn't record as well with the actives... It just seems a little too dynamic.
Yep, definitely weird...but not uncommon. As for your other bass you mentioned...here's the thing to keep in mind Chuck...and honest, this is important. Guitar players like you and me...will probably never have incredible bass tones. The reason being? We're guitar players that don't normally think with a bassist mentality. We just pretty much hack our way through and do the best we can. If you use a pick...you're at a disadvantage. If you use your fingers and don't have the "pull' down right....you're at a disadvantage. So you are always going to play bass with too much dynamics. Those dynamics are called "inconsistencies from not majoring on that instrument". Bring in a guy that excels on that instrument and you won't even need much compression on him because he will naturally feel his way through it with his right hand pulls. Kinda like a vocalist that knows how to use the "distance effect" while singing. They know to pull away on a scream or fierce note hold. An inexperienced singer is going to deep throat the mic on every note. Even some bassists are really not bassists. How many times have we had guitarists in our bands switch over to bass? We deal with it because we can't find a bassist yet deep inside, we know we're not totally happy with this guy's performance. We accept it because hs shows up and is a team player. Get a real bassist, the sound of the band changes for the better. If you listen to a pro bassist play...it sounds like they have a compressor on them. They most likely do, but rest assured...it's to just further keep the little peaks and valleys from being too powerful because they too are human and can sometimes pull a bit too hard or put a bit too much energy into something. But for guys like you or me...we're not going to attack it the same way. I have been trying for years not to think like a guitarist whenever I play bass. I think I've really gained some ground in that area over the years...but compared to my bassist...who is a freak of nature...no matter what I play, he'll play it and execute/deliver it better...even if he uses a crap bass and I use my Factor, Fender, Carvin, Ibanez Sound Gear or my Charvel. I'm also going to need more compression than him with a shorter attack time due to how I play verses how he plays. And, the compressor I use for myself won't be the compressor I use on him. He uses fingers, I use a felt pick which has really made a difference in tranients that lash out. So there are quite a few things that come into play...and you're probably always going to be a bit more dynamic unless you totally take time to become a bassist in your spare time and learn the stuff they do to make love to the instrument. Another thing to keep in mind on bass is...you don't have to smash it with your right hand attack. Try it on your next recording. It's so hard to control yourself when you are really enjoying the vibe of your tune...but if you can, try to play lighter...you won't believe how much better it makes the bass sound. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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ChuckC
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/24 18:29:39
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Yep, well I am reading some of the books by Bob Katz and starting to understand that because I was trying to keep the bass out of the way of the kick, (which is eq'd quite low down around 20hz-80hz) my bass sound is hitting from around 125hz with harmonics around 500, that I was (unknowingly) boosting the 2nd and 3rd harmonics of the bass to keep the kick lound and clear. My distorted guitars seem to be picking up from around 160hz - around 6k leaving some air up top and room for cymbals etc.
Danny, I have spent a couple of years off an on playing bass in bands and though I have concentrated to play as a bassist, not a guitarist... it is much to my dismay that I get 5x the compliments as a bass player than I do as a guitarist. Though even still, I do play with my fingers and more dynamics than my current bassist who plays with a typical heavy guitar pic (which I hate the sound of personally) he does play consistant as hell. He requires a good bit less processing than I do, though most of that as stated above is the instrument. I have done a few tracks with a passive bass and found a marked improvement over active pick ups. I am still a more dynamic player... ehh oh well?
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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Middleman
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/24 20:52:31
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I mix with the UAD tape emulation and light, very light precision buss compressor or the SSL 4k buss compressor on the master buss. Occasionally I will drop in the UAD limiter just to get a feel for loud but once I am in the ball park, I take all but the tape emulation off and burn that at 44.1 or 48k at 24 bits.
Then I will run that file through a dedicated mastering matrix with all the usual suspect plug ins just to get the volume up. If I like what I hear, its done. All UAD. I don't languish over the dithering either Bit.
I have to tell you however, after years of doing this, changing the arrangement to support the vocal, has more impact on the outcome than any plug in. At the end of the day when you sit back and listen, what plug in that was used disappears into the distance and the song & performance is either there or you are square. Out of tune guitars & vocals or poorly played passages i.e. timing, will be the point of judgment long after that phenomenal stack of guitars panned wide and layered with amazing effects has passed.
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Philip
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/25 01:12:03
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@ Danny: I wouldn't trade your bass for anyone's just yet) :). You've propelled 3 or 4 of our mixes to the uttermost possible ... For me its like Tennis and Ping Pong. Some guitarists (like you) can play numerous stringed instruments ... some can't. @ Middleman: Which tape emulation (Ampex?, Fatso?). I'm glad to hear you enjoy the SSL stuff ... and are focused more on vocs. Also: It would help me if you stated your fav UAD mastering chains (hopefully not just the precision series) You seem to stress performance sketches and/or stem-mixing over mastering. I agree with that for some mixes, like classic rock. Unfortunately, even hip-hop and metal require indepth fx's and a competitive loudness ... where bass-thumping and beatz rhythm co-dominates (or fully dominates) I run (pristine-ish) vox performances through quite a bit of fx's and several bounces (Melodyne, and Waves Z-cleaner). UAD emulations (for the vox) include studer, fairchild, vog, and sometimes the Fatso warmer (to kill the shrills). @ Everyone: I'll try to stear this thread a bit toward maximizers and soft limiters: IIRC, a creative ME may choose from diverse maximizers/soft-limiters. I tested the free demo version of the S late Digital fg-x (requires a dongle): http://www.slatedigital.com/fgx.php; I'll try to post results (or the song) in due time ... if any of you are interested. Steven Slate's view, iirc, is to fight the loudness race by joining in ... but by ... pre-compressing, protecting (and enhancing) transients, encouraging harmonics, etc. while getting everything LOUD and transparent. (That's fair IMHO, especially when you want the greatest and loudest dance or metal mix) Here is a 3rd party demo of Slate's $250 VST: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZqDn2WxNlU Many mixers/MEs have a diverse collection: Elephant, Ozone, Waves-L-max, UAD Precision Limiter (brick wall), Slate, and others. ME, Danzi III (Danziland), iirc, does exquisite manual adjustments of levels somehow (which he explained on one thread but I failed to grasp) ... but Danzi's results sound 'completely awesome' albeit ... with a 'consistent' Danziland signature (in our 3 mixes) ... IOWs, Danny is an ME 'artist', who manually imparts a human vibe to his pro-masters, IMHO. I'm not sure Bob Katz places that much love into all of his masters ... perhaps some of them. (From reading, I gather Katz uses numerous machines and tricks ... to fit the bill)
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/25 15:45:13
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☄ Helpful
I get a serious mastering result when I do the following.
Mix maybe using some very light (1.3 to 1) compression over the masterbuss. Levels well away from 0 db FS. And in 24 bit all times.
Playback tracks and run first stage of 64 bit precision linear phase EQ that is of high quality. Good for maintining mix transparency and can provide great EQ when required. Use minimal amounts here like +0.4 db over 1.5 to 3.5 K maybe gentle curve. Or some nice attention to the extremes of the spectrum with suitable shelf EQ. Get the EQ right that is hitting the compressor. Time to get the bass right here too.
Then out to the SMART C2 compressor (real one that is) I like analog compression and I must say this thing sounds fabulous. Danny suggest others such as the API and I bet he is right too.
Note: It would be OK to go out and EQ in the analog world and do the compression in the digital world with something like what Danny suggest as the Neve in the UAD world. Don't feed your mix through an EQ for sound unless it needs it. Some mixes are best left alone.
I print at this point and do the limiting after. I use the PSP Xenon which I think is an outstanding limiter. I have said it many times it is WAY better than most and offers incredible control over the sound and it can be LOUD! I have heard it is better than the Slate. It is free to download and use for 14 days. Do it and see what I am talking about. You will want it for sure!
Have plenty of great reference tracks available during the mastering and play everything at a calibrated monitor level.
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Philip
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/25 21:18:16
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Thanks all ... -
No clipping - means that limiter is fully preventing clipping (+). Some worst limiters do not even do this (-). -
Full range - indicates whether the limiter can achieve a brickwall limiting and use the full dynamic range by maximizing the signal up to 0 dB FS (+). Some limiters can only approach 0 dB FS: kind of soft limiting (-). -
Look-ahead - means that limiters use look-ahead feature to reduce gain in advance before peak signals, leading to smoother gain envelopes applied to the signal and less of a clipping effect (+). Limiters w/o look-ahead just limit peaks as they arrive, and this leads to partial clipping of peak onsets (-). -
Continuous env. - indicates whether a limiter is applying a continuous gain envelope to the signal (+). If the gain envelope is discontinuous, this results in crackle added to the audio (-). -
Smooth env. - indicates whether a limiter is applying a smooth amplitude envelope to the signal (+). If the amplitude envelope is not smooth, this may result in minor crackle added to the audio and wider spectrum of distortions (-). -
ARC (auto release control) - indicates presence of some kind of "adaptive release control" technology that uses faster release times on transients and slower release times on steady-state audio material (+). This allows achieving more aggressive limiting with less distortion. Most limiters do not have this feature yet (-). -
Adjustable ARC - means that user can adjust the aggressiveness of limiting (e.g. scale the release time) when still working with ARC algorithm (+). This allows more flexibility in adjustment of the resulting sound by controlling aggressiveness of limiting and amount of pumping. -
Analog detection - means that the limiter can detect and limit peak values in the reconstructed analog waveform (also called inter-sample peaks). This allows creating masters that are more compatible with different D/A converters (+).
DISCLAIMER: this table is not a rating of quality, it's a rating of algorithm features (that I personally consider important for limiters). Since I did an algorithm design for iZotope, Ozone has all these features implemented. Other manufacturers may promote other features, not present in this comparison. No clipping Full range Look ahead Continuous env. Smooth env. ARC Adjustable ARC Analog detection Steinberg PeakMaster + - ? - - - - - Steinberg BuzMaxi 3 - ? + + - - - - TC Native L + + - - - - - - Anwida L1V + + + - - - - - Digidesign Maxim + + + - - - - - iZotope Ozone 2 + + + - - - - - DSP-FX Optimizer + +/- + + - - - - Kjaerhus Classic + +/- + + - - - - Crysonic SpectraPhy 1.0 + - + + - -/+ - - 4Front XLimiter + + + + - - - - DB Mastering Limiter + + + + - - - - GVST GMax + + + + - - - - Logic Limiter + + + + - - - - Cubase SX Dynamics + + + + - - - - Nuendo Limiter + + + + - - - - CEP Hard Limiting + + + + - - - - SF Graphic Dynamics + + + + - - - - Voxengo Elephant HQ +/- -/+ + + - + - - Kjaerhus GPP-1 + + + +/- - -/+ - - Massey L2007 + - + + - + + - TB Barricade 2.1 + + + + + - - - Wave Arts FinalPlug + + + + + - - - G. Yohng's W1 Limiter + + + + + - - - Sonalksis MaxLimit + + + + + - - - Slate FG-X 1.1.2 + + + + + - - - Sonnox Oxford Limiter + + + + - +/- -/+ -/+ Waves L1+ + + + + + - - + Cakewalk Boost 11 + +/- + + +/- +/- - - Flux Pure Limiter + + + + - + + - Waves L2 + + + + + + - - PSP Xenon + + + + - + + -/+ FabFilter Pro-L + + + + -/+ + + -/+ Voxengo Elephant 2.0 + +/- + + + + + - Voxengo Elephant 3.0 + +/- + + +/- + + -/+ iZotope Ozone 3 + + + + + + + + Brief conclusions The best quality is demonstrated by maximizers with an auto release control technology. The Waves L2 maxmimizer has become a de-facto standard for high quality processing. It combines ARC technology with smoothing of gain envelope. One of shortcomings of L2 is that the option to detect inter-sample clipping has been pulled from it for some reason, although this function has been present in Waves L1+. Another problem is that its ARC mode doesn't have any adjustment of aggressiveness. The aggressiveness of L2 is relatively high (and indeed sounds loud), but with significant amounts of limiting come intermodulation distortions, which can only be avoided by disengaging the ARC algorithm and manually setting high release time.  Maximizer Voxengo Elephant HQ combines the auto release control mode with a possibility to adjust aggressiveness. This maximizers has gained some food user feedback, e.g. there are claims on a Voxengo forum that in many cases it sounds better than L2. This is completely possible, considering its adjustable aggressiveness in ARC mode. However this maximizer lacks some accurate engineering for achieving best results. For example, sometimes Elephant is not fully utilizing all the available dynamic range, and sometimes it passes a minor clipping. Also it doesn't have smoothing of gain envelopes, which leads to rather wide spectrum of distortion. In the newer version Elephant 2.0, a new EL-2 mode has been introduced that features smoothing of gain envelope and adjustable ARC aggressiveness. Still, a shortcoming of non-full utilization of the dynamic range remains (it limits below 0 dB FS level). Intelligent Maximizer from iZotope Ozone 3 is a relatively new product. It combines ARC mode with adjustable aggressiveness, smoothing of gain envelopes and possibility of detection of "analog" peak levels. This maximizer has the best sound quality in many cases, it can be viewed as extension of Waves L2 towards adjustable aggressiveness and analog peaks detection. Maximizer is the mandatory device in any mastering studio, and it has a noticeable impact on the final sound of the recording. We have reviewed principles of operation of maximizers and main parameters defining their quality. Several simple tests suggested in this article allow easily evaluating the quality of other maximizers, not reviewed here.
post edited by Philip - 2011/12/25 21:25:40
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Philip
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/25 21:24:50
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'Tis interesting that Ozone seems to have evolved out of many prior limiters ... but you and I will get different opinions and results based on expertise, material, and expectation bias. Also mastering must take into account charactor, multicomp (lo and highs) glue-gel, transients, widening, harmonics, and tape colorations. So we want to intuitively grab different modules for the mastering task, or send it to the ME with an idea of what he/she uses.
post edited by Philip - 2011/12/25 21:33:24
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ChuckC
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Re:Serious Mastering
2011/12/26 01:12:12
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Interesting... I have used Ozone and continue to pull it up on each master and try to dial in the sound I want because of it's ease of use all being in one module like that. On every project recently I end up going back to the stuff included in 8.5 producer. LP64 Eq - which I need less and less of with every new song as I am working hard to get the mixes right and getting better at it, Multiband comp, and boost11. I could be nuts, but I kinda like the character boost11 adds... Seems to get the low end hitting a little harder for me and get a little growl out of the mids.
Then I compare this and A/B with my Ozone set up... Usually using it's eq the same way, then it's multiband, the stereo Imaging to pull the low end to center and slightly spread the mids and highs, and finally the limiter. (In both cases I have recently learned to back off the comp and limiting in favor of preserving dynamics). I am not crazy about mastering reverb as it just isn't part of the sound I am currently going for and the Exciter seems cool but it's just too easy to destroy a good mix with it so I have shy'd away after my 1st few attempts with it.
On comparing them I always seem to like the non-ozone master better.
Maybe it's just me? I do hate that the LP64, and MB64 are not running gapless audio and that it cuts out while tweeking, but once in place I like it better.
One of my bandmembers (who knows nothing about recording) recently put me in touch with an old friend of his who is a well respected tracking and mix engineer out in California (He has worked with some pretty big names). We spent about 2 hours on the phone a week ago talking gear and techniques etc. He uses a ton of stuff proffesionally everyday PT, logic, reason, cubase etc. and for his own stuff at home and at work he runs it all through Sonar 8.5.3 PE so it was great to compare notes on the same systems and a cool thing to hear from someone who does this everyday, all day, and has for 25+ years or so. (Sorry to get offtopic there) Anyway when I brought up ozone he said his honest opinion was that it was ok, but he kinda thought of it like a playdough fun factory, that you could put nearly anything in and it would spit out the same shapes...stars, circles, and squares. I found it a funny take on Ozone since I couldn't seem to get what I've wanted from it either.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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